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Anti-American Politics in America

Strelnikov

4th Level Red Feather
Joined
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This article appeared on Townhall.com, October 28, 2002. Comments, anyone?

Strelnikov

********************

The left has lost its moral bearings
by John Leo

Everywhere you turn these days, someone on the left is denouncing President Bush as Hitler, Satan, a terrorist or a tyrannical emperor. A Yale law professor said Bush is "the most dangerous man on Earth." A famous editor referred to Bush as "a lawn jockey" and "Pinocchio."

Some of the angry rhetoric flirts with the fringe idea that the United States planned the terrorist attacks. A Purdue professor said "there is no ground to be certain" that America and Israel aren't behind the 9/11 attacks. A Columbia law professor compared 9/11 to the Reichstag fire in Nazi Germany -- Bush is not responsible for 9/11, he said, but he exploited a national disaster to suspend civil liberties, just like Hitler. A Berkeley professor helpfully pointed out that some Indonesian groups think the U.S. planned the Bali bombing.

The rhetoric accurately reflects the current condition of much of the left -- bitter, stymied, alienated, politically impotent, full of loathing for America and the West, and totally unable to address the crisis wrought by 9/11, except to imply (or say) that the U.S. deserved to be attacked.

The left has lost its bearings, Michael Walzer, the political philosopher, wrote in the spring issue of Dissent, the leftist magazine he edits. His article, "Can There Be a Decent Left?" deplored "the barely concealed glee" of the left's reaction to 9/11, and the lack of "any visible concern" about how to prevent terrorism in the future.

"Many left intellectuals live in America like internal aliens," he wrote, "refusing to identify with their fellow citizens, regarding any hint of patriotic feeling as politically incorrect. That's why they had such difficulty responding emotionally to the attacks of Sept. 11 or joining in the expressions of solidarity that followed."

The favorite posture of many American leftists, Walzer said, is "standing as a righteous minority, brave and determined, amid the timid, the corrupt and the wicked. A posture like that ensures at once the moral superiority of the left and its political failure." He said the left needs to discard its "ragtag Marxism" and its belief that America is corrupt beyond remedy.

Solidarity with people in trouble is the most profound commitment that leftists make, he wrote, but even the oppressed have obligations, and one is to avoid murdering innocent people. "Leftists who cannot insist on this point, even to people poorer and weaker than themselves, have abandoned both politics and morality for something else."

An example of that abandonment came two weeks ago (NOTE BY STREL: Oct. 12-14) at the University of Michigan's pro-Palestinian conference, which could not bring itself to criticize suicide bombings. Save us from moral appeals that leave room for blowing up families in supermarkets.

Journalist Christopher Hitchens caused a bigger hubbub than Walzer when he resigned from The Nation magazine after 20 years, citing its anti-war stance on Iraq. Saddam Hussein, he wrote in his farewell column, is "a filthy menace" and "there is not the least doubt that he has acquired some of the means of genocide and hopes to collect some more." He thought The Nation had become "the echo chamber of those who truly believe that John Ashcroft is a greater menace than Osama bin Laden."

In another article, Hitchens wrote: "I can only hint at how much I despise a left that thinks of Osama bin Laden as a slightly misguided anti-imperialist. ... Instead of internationalism, we find among the left now a sort of affectless, neutralist, smirking isolationism" and "a masochistic refusal to admit that our own civil society has any merit."

Ron Rosenbaum of the New York Observer said Hitchens' departure from The Nation was sad because he "forced a lot of people on the left to confront their blind spot, their on-bended-knee obeisance to anyone in the Third World who posed as a 'liberator,' from Mao to Castro to Arafat and the Taliban."

Rosenbaum's comments came in an article on his own defection, "Goodbye, All That: How Left Idiocies Drove me to Flee." One trigger: a well-respected academic said he welcomed 9/11 because it gave Americans a chance to reassess their past honestly, as Germans did in the 1960s. "I couldn't take it any more," Rosenbaum wrote. "Goodbye to all that ... the inability to distinguish between America's sporadic blundering depredations" and Hitler's Germany. Goodbye, he said, to the refusal to admit that "Marxist genocides" slaughtered some 20 million to 50 million people in Russia, China and Cambodia. And goodbye to the "peace marches" like the one in Madrid where women wore suicide-bomber belts as bikinis. "'Peace' somehow doesn't exclude blowing up Jewish children," Rosenbaum wrote.

We owe a debt to Walzer, Hitchens and Rosenbaum. Now will they make any difference to our hyperalienated left?
 
Yes there are idiots and morons on the left just as there is idiots and morons on the right. Both groups contain people with extremist, radical, and unrealistic views.
 
As a leftist, I would LOVE to see Leo call me anti-American to my face. Just once. It's much easier to condemn an entire political movement when you're sitting behind a computer than when dealing with a representative of said movement directly. You can just cherry-pick examples of extremist behavior and present them as typical of the movement as a whole -- not unlike those who hold up Tim McVeigh, Jerry Falwell, the Klan, and Rev. Fred Phelps as representative of all conservatism.

All I need to say is that the distorted portrait Leo writes about is not me, and it's not the leftists and liberals I know. Perhaps Leo needs to get out and meet some people, instead of relying on anecdotes and the reports of others.


[Edited to remove an extraneous word.]
 
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Portraying President Bush as Stalin, Hitler, etc., may seem irrational, but is it any more irrational that the Republican campaign this year which compared Democrats to bin Laden? Of course I believe that it is ridiculous to accuse the Bush administration of having anything to do with the terrorist attacks, but it also seems clear to me that the Republicans used the opportunity to campaign on fear. They were able to win back the Senate by emphasizing that one issue without really even addressing any other pertinent issues. Oh well, the ball's completely in their court now...let's see what they do with it. The nation will be watching.
 
Shem's right - I'm getting increasingly irritated by the notion that unless you vote Republican and worship the ground George W walks on, you're a traitor. This is a democracy, people; remember, that's what we're supposed to be fighting the war on terrorism FOR. And I'd be happy to pound the crap out of anyone who calls me a traitor to my face.

There's ample room to support and defend your country and still be a member of the loyal opposition. Sure, there are idiots out there on the left who think that 9/11 was "deserved"; do people really think they should be taken seriously as representatives of Democrats as a whole? Do they not understand the absurdity of this? (I know Strel well enough by now to know that HE doesn't believe that these creeps represent all Democrats, but there are some people out there who do. We keep thinking like that and we really WILL be living in Hitler's Germany; "freedom to agree with me" is not freedom.)
 
Doesn't anyone know that Strel, Q and I tend to favor political discussions? If it riles ya t'see someone of questionable intellect writing articles with questionable sources, perhaps y'need t'stop a sec, and think of what you care of the declarations of the misinformed?

Do ya wanna correct 'em? Ignore 'em? Rail at their inaccuracies?

I've good friends on many degrees of either side of American politics. Few of them fit the stereotypes this individual declares in writing.

Good post, Strel. Stirred the masses a bit. On to the one that stirred more...
 
Quoting Daumantas:
"I know Strel well enough by now to know that HE doesn't believe that these creeps represent all Democrats..."

And d v n c:
"Doesn't anyone know that Strel, Q and I tend to favor political discussions?"

Guilty as charged.

Re-read the Leo article. The people he skewers are the paleo-hippies and designer libs that infest university faculties, Hollywood and salon society. The sort who would call Colin Powell a "house n*****", as Harry Belafonte did, not long ago.

Conspicuously absent are the true "loyal opposition". It's likely that D voted for Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY). I detest everything the man stands for. But since 9/11, there's no doubt in my mind (or, I suspect, Leo's either) that Mr. Schumer is an American patriot.

See the difference now?

Strelnikov
 
No. That won't do. The story is not headlined "Some on the left have lost their moral bearings." Leo claims that the words of the few people he describes are characteristic of "much of the left," which is purest bilgewater. You may not believe these people represent all, or even the majority of, liberals, but Leo either does or is cynically attempting to make it seem as if they do.
 
It's possible that Leo only knows,or has been associated with, the far leftists.There are plenty of them,and many of these hold positions of importance and celebrity.

Aside from that, the term "many" is relative. Even 1% of a million people can be characterized as many,especially when they have influential positions.
 
Those people may have said that about Bush. Republicans say these things
about Democrats and others all the time. Listen to that dropout Rush
Limbaugh. He says things less civil than that.

The statements that leftists hate America are too silly to even consider.
Such inanities merely point out the arrogance of the authors of such
craziness. If one disagrees with these mindless wonders it must mean that
one hates America. This is called "I am the state" mentality.
 
I recall having a similar conversation once with a friend about the feminist position on abortion being rooted in a desire to negate any involvement by males, to undo everything men have a hand in creating.

"You can't seriously think that every woman who favors abortion feels that way, can you?" he asked.

"No," I replied, "I doubt that there are more an few dozen who genuinely feel that way. But the problem is that the most extreme are the also the loudest. And as the most vocal and the most visible, they get the cameras and microphones pointed in their direction more often, and they end up influencing the policy."

As a fanboy, I get the same experience all the time. When the latest Star Wars movie comes out or a Sci-Fi convention is in town, who does the media ask for an interview? They run right past the intelligent, stable fans to talk to the goober who can't fit his Captain Kirk uniform over his Cheeto-gut as he waxes on about his deep love for Seven-of-Nine, or the guy who quit his job to camp in front of the theater ticket window in anticipation of Episode III and is having his face tattooed like Darth Maul while he waits. My friends and I are well aware that Star Trek is just a TV show, and that our Dungeons & Dragons characters are just painted pewter miniatures and sheets of statistics, but the general public might be forgiven for thinking otherwise so long as Luke Buttwiper over there insists on campaigning to get "Jedi" listed as an official religion on the census forms.

It's the same thing with conservatives and liberals: Each side is seen as being no better than its most extreme fringe because the fringe is so shrill or flamboyant that it drowns out so many other voices. It's tough to advance the notion that conservative policies towards large corporations are in fact good for the entire economy when Ken Lay is stuffing executive washroom towels in his pockets on his way out of the Enron building.

I agree completely that the vast majority in both political schools of thought are decent, reasonable people. As P.J. O'Rourke wrote in the introduction to Give War A Chance: "When I talk about liberals I don't mean progressive people or open-handed individuals or even big-government Democrats. I'm talking about the people who are actually excited that 1% of the profits from Ben & Jerry's ice cream goes to 'promote world peace'." I would further posit that the reasonable majority has a responsibilty to tell the loudmouthed loonies in their midst to sit down and stop hogging the microphone before they embarrass all of us any further.

As for the notion that any criticism of the president is automatically treason, I also find that nonsense. I voted for and continue to support George W. Bush, but I think he's made some blunders. It was a catastrophic mistake to approve the campaign finance reform bill because it didn't get the money out of politics, it just redirected it into different paths. It was a serious error to make all airport security screeners into federal employees; because the baggage screeners did their job on September Eleventh by preventing any bombs, guns, or knives over a specified length from getting aboard the planes; while the federal employees of the INS and State Department failed to prevent the hijackers from staying in the country in the first place. I think that the creation of a cabinet level Homeland Security office and its attendant federal bureacracy in not an improvement on the situation, as no problem anywhere was ever solved by starting a governement department to deal with it.

If you can present your disagreement rationally and cite facts to support your position, that's wonderful. That is genuine debate and it is encouraged in a democratic society. However, the loudest voices in the argument, as before, are not doing that at all, and it's these people that I have a problem with. As National Review editor Jonah Goldberg said recently: "I don't think you're stupid because of what you believe. I think you're stupid because of why you believe what you believe." It's the people who allege that Bush, Cheney, & Ashcroft are sitting there cackling with glee like Lex Luthor, Doctor Doom and the Red Skull at the prospect of turning America into a brutal police state and slaughtering Iraqi babies to get their hands on some more oil. It's the people like Tom Daschle and Maureen Dowd, who loudly protest that every position Bush takes from tax cuts to action against Iraq is dangerously wrong, yet they remain curiously silent about what they would do better instead. It's the people like Terry MacAuliffe who seem to live every day marinating in spite and resentment that the 2000 Election didn't go the way he wanted it to go; and those who mutter vague unsupported conspiracy theories about Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris in willful ignorance of the pages of evidence showing inappropriate behavior on the part of Gore campaign operatives. It's these people, sadly, who tend to dominate many a discussion of Presidential critcism on anything above an interpersonal level such as this, and so it's difficult to avoid dismissing legitimate complaints lost beneath the deafening volume of what amounts to infantile pettiness.

It's 2AM here in New Jersey, and the need to sleep has caused me to lose whatever wrap-up line I had. I'll see what I can come up with tomorrow.
 
Another good example of loyal opposition was provided by the Republican Party (yes, you heard me right; you can sometimes learn much from those you disagree with) in the presidential election of 1944. Thomas E. Dewey, the Republican, didn't win, but did pull more votes away from FDR than any of the other three Republicans who ran against him. In 1944, with WWII raging, Dewey wouldn't conceivably have criticized the FACT of American participation in the war (you can debate provocation all you want, but the bottom line is the U.S. was attacked without warning and with malice aforethought; same goes for 9/11). What was fair game was FDR's HANDLING of the war effort, particularly on the domestic front, as well as the argument that he should have been better prepared. See the difference? The U.S. was fighting a war it didn't ask for: Dewey didn't criticize the war itself, just the way the incumbent was running it.
 
You've my respect, MadKalnod. Most writing here are doin' good work, I'm doin' passable, but yours is impressive, sir.

To all - I'm not certain that America has HAD a good choice in many, many terms. It's arguable that Kennedy was the last good one, and only HALF the country will agree, 'cause we Americans, includin' us relocated ones, tend to fight along party lines before thinkin' too hard about "our side". Can ya picture the collosal ass-kicking that was possible with a less militaristically lead-able president? Say, a guy who ABANDONED his party and president at the onset of potential scandal? I haven't respected a candidate in ages, but dopey ole Clinton did more to reform than he did to screw up, and I ain't certain that Bush (Sr. or Jr.) can make that claim. I reserve opinion in finality until the end of the term. Maybe he'll get wise in his urge to impress, and actually undo some of the mess he's caused, and be remembered solely for a strong hand in a clowned situation.

In other words, Biscuit, for once, I disagree. I still love ya, brother, but I find Gore to be a clown, and votin' for him was painful. I think he'd have handled the hard press on this worse than he did on the Clinton scandel and it's affect on all Democrats.

Alas, I've a bit of cynic in me, where such in concerned. Sorry, folks!
 
This may shock alot of you..............but if McCain had been the Republican canidate I would have voted for him.
 
John McCain

Yah, me too - that's who I voted for in the primary.

Gadzooks! Ice and I agree on something! Oh, the horror...

Strelnikov
 
lol. I quit calling myself a Republican when Bush won the nomination. I mean he's a good guy and all, and he's done a good job... but after 8 years of bitching about Clinton's sleazy ways (and rightfully so), to see them go and pick an ex-druggie draft-dodger over a guy who's not only a war hero, but is also one of the few HONEST politicians left on the face of the earth... Um, yeah. That was more than I could take.


Incidentally, I might've voted Bradley over Bush. If Democratic Senator Bob Kerry had run and been nominated, I'd have voted for him in a second, over anyone but McCain...
 
Wishful thinking...

Most of us probably would have Ice, but he made too many enemies on the way towards the "prize". As a man, he may be superior indeed, but as a tactician, he was woefully incapable of maintaining the focus and diplomatic effort needed to actually be put into position to claim the presidency. I didn't vote for president last election. Couldn't get into a frame of mind where I could push the lever for Bush, and certainly can't say that Gore had enough going for him to make me hit that lever either....it was the first time I hadn't voted since I was 18. BUT, I now wish I had cast a vote for Bush. He isn't perfect, which of course is true for every single President, but I like his focus on the subject of terrorism and his overall "we won't take this crap" attitude. The creation of a Homeland Department is actually cleverer than it may first appear, in that it allows the Executive Branch to remove some of our countries overdependence on the CIA/FBI and other "old" style organizations. In other words, it's a chance to do it right this time around. Usually I would HATE the creation of another government agency, but, properly handled, there's the potential for a lot of good to come of this setup!
As for the extremes in our countries parties, I think MadK has hit the nail on the head. If we stopped paying attention to these loonies, quoting them and funding their nonsense, they would fade away or into the center, depending upon their actual convictions. Many of them are just glory seekers and nut jobs (Falwell and Sharpton come quickly to mind), and they've been idolized by certain segments of the population, for obscure reasons that certainly escape me....
Btw, dvnc, now that you're officially "Canadian", we'll be assuming you have a Northern bias built into all your posts...lol. 😉 Q
 
Thank Ye enormously, D & Q. (D... Q... DQ? DQ! Hmm, I could really go for an Oreo Blizzard right about now... But I digress.)

I don't think I'd have voted for McCain. He's one of the primary architects of the Campaign Finance Reform law that irks me so much. I mean, think about it: McCain is essentially saying that all that campaign money is hopelessly corrupting him, no matter how noble he may want to be; that he'll simply have no choice but to do what he's been bribed to do despite its effects on the American people whose welfare is of such paramount importance to him; and yet he won't stop taking the money unless a law is passed that forbids him to do so. In short, he needs money to get elected so he can pass a law to stop himself from taking money to get elected. Way to be a paragon of virtue and honesty there, John. The Yiddish language has given us a wonderful word to describe such a position: Chutzpah. (Formerly exemplified by the Menendez brothers begging the court for mercy because they're orphans.)

That would be bad enough, but the finished bill doesn't even perform the specified function of getting the dreaded big money out of campaigns. I don't pretend to understand all of the financial legerdemain involved, but from all accounts I've heard, there are loopholes intentionally written into the new law which permit candidates to take just as much money as before provided they can shift the cash from "soft money" to "hard money" through an accounting process that would leave Catch 22's Milo Minderbinder jealous. (I believe the gist of it is that it's illegal to take $100,000 from a Special Interest group, but it's perfectly acceptable to take $1,000 each from 100 individual members of that group, but it may not be that simple.) The money is still there, so nothing has really been accomplished, yet the politicians are slapping themselves on the back as if they've cured cancer, rescued the princess, and saved Tiny Tim's Christmas all at once.

Even worse, the bill contains clauses that severely restrict the ability to purchase campaign ads less than 60 days before an election. If it had been in place this year, the Dems could have pulled their Torricelli/Lautenberg bait-&-switch after the cut-off date with the opposition legally forbidden to mount any kind of response. That's a far worse violation of the First Amendment than anything Paul Begala & James Carville have accused John Ashcroft of plotting.

The other big reason I don't think I like McCain is the Goldberg principle: It's not what he says, but why he says it. I suspect his criticisms of Bush have a lot less to do with legitimate grievances than the fact that a member of the Republican Party who loudly disagrees with the establishment attracts media attention and lots of TV interview opportunities the same way chum in the water attracts sharks. I think his dissent is more a career move than deep conviction. "Look at me! Look at me, I'm a brave and principled Moderate! I'm a maverick with a mind of my own! Watch me demonstrate my fierce independence as I vote the same way as Tom Daschle on almost every issue!" I admit I may be wrong, but I can't say I'm sold on the act.
 
Wow...this is becoming the John McCain thread. (Does that mean we're going off topic?)

Anyway - my only real objection to McCain is that he is the biggest opponent in Congress of rail transit, and in case you haven't noticed 🙂 , I happen to think trains are pretty cool. I'm much in favor of keeping some version of Amtrak around, if only as a skeletal service, as a hedge against the inevitable day when the auto-based transportation system we've come to depend on becomes too expensive to maintain and too crowded to be efficient. (Prediction: By 2050, there will be abandoned freeways in some places, just as there are abandoned rail lines now. But now I really am getting off topic.)

However, my impression of McCain is that he's intellectually open-minded enough to give a discussion of trains a fair hearing, as opposed to those folks who are strictly in the pocket of the highway lobby.

(Funny how I work either trains or the Nylon Dungeon into any given discussion. Absolutely, utterly shameless self-promotion.🙂 )
 
John McCain

I voted for him in the primary because:
(1) I thought Bush 43 was a lightweight (I've since been pleasantly surprised.)
(2) I object to the Repub habit of anoiting candidates, so I voted for the guy who wasn't the establishment choice (not that it ever does any good.) If they're gonna do that, why not be honest about it and go back to brokered conventions, smoke filled rooms and all.
(3) I thought McCain had a better chance of winning in the general election. Face it, from my viewpoint ANY Repub is better than ALL Dems, if for no other reason than the people they have to be polite to within their own parties.
(4) He's nearly as grumpy as I am.

But it turned out OK anyway. Unlike the Clintonistas, this administration consists of grownups. And if Bush 43 isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, he had sense enough to surround himself with people who are.

We could - we have - done a lot worse.

Strelnikov
 
Poppin Fresh

Well, Bisc, I DID say "potential"...lol. I still have high hopes that this institution can take the best of the other organizations and remove the "stains' that have besmirched our intelligence gathering crews in recent decades, fairly deserved or not. I think you may have misconstrued my intent, which is to actually strengthen and legitimize those essential efforts. If they do indeed turn into another set of meeting bloated paper pushing leeches, then this experiment will obviously have failed. BUT, if the Director can pull it all together and utilize the mandate he currently operates under to its full potential, then we will have accomplished something essential and far reaching. Keep your digits interlocked...err...fingers crossed. Q
 
Biscuit, I still respect ya, even if ya believe Gore could do anything of value after the ridiculous handling of his last 2 years in office. The man had no balls then, and I don't think he'd've magically grown a pair for the conflict at hand. I don't dig the way the US is lookin' for somewhere to bomb, but I'd like it less if we left ourselves a panic'd target, and don't believe Gore's mean enough to do as was needed, post attack 9-11.

I could be wrong, though. I've just no faith in the man or his abilities as an upright and assertive man. He showed himself as folding for Clinton in conflict. I don't expect any better anywhere else from him.

Daumantas, I figure it's still on-topic enough. 😉

I can't WAIT for a politician that actually wants to do as he's elected to do - serve the bloody voters! One day, I wanna see a way to vote on a president's actions online, such that the whole country could vote for when a politician did well OR poorly, and could vote for a stance based on info provided as of XX date. Politics get a lot clearer when it ain't a monarchistic approach. I don't want a leader. I want someone to do as we, the people, request, dammit.

I don't give a flyin' f**k where I live, when it comes to that. I wanna know that the jamoke in office is doin' as the majority wants. I'll then move to where the majority represents me, and thus, I, them.

I'm still waitin' for yet another police/military action that we won't call a war to occur in Iraq again. Sad deal, that.
 
Thats why I wanted McCain I dont like Gore and Bush is an idiot. McCain has balls, IQ, and charisma.
 
Sorry, Deviantness

But I have to disagree with you yet again. True democracy just isn't practical. The US is a republic and should remain so.

I suppose it comes from my military background. Waiting for the "will of the ruled" to be made clear can be a fatal error in the kinds of conflicts the US routinely finds itself involved in. I suppose that's because I think that, on the whole, people are sheep. I just don't trust the average US citizen to see past his own self-interest long enough to actually act in the common good. In my opinion, That's what an executive branch is for. It's Congress's job to represent the people, and I think that, in a very Jerry-Springeresque way, they're doing a damned good job of it. Sadly enough...

*falls off soapbox*

*waves weakly from the ground*

no, no, I'm ok...


Oh, and Icicle - I fail to see the relevance of charisma, but I suppose that's because I have none myself. If I were just a bit more likeable, I guess it might rank higher on my priority list. Ah well, we all have out flaws...

😉

😉
 
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Re: Sorry, Deviantness

Biscuit said:
That's what an executive branch is for. It's Congress's job to represent the people, and I think that, in a very Jerry-Springeresque, they're doing a damned good job of it. Sadly enough...

*falls off soapbox*

*waves weakly from the ground*

no, no, I'm ok...
😉
[/B]

Hmmm...actually the role of the Executive is ill defined, imo. It's powers and obligations are vague, and its authority is expansive and unregulated for the most part. By the time the Judicial branch can yank their chain, a lot can happen in terms of real life activities and aftermath. We're a flawed system, but it's still the best one ever seen, imo.
I'd like to be able to disagree with Ye Olde Biscuit about the will of the ruled, but unfortunately he's tapped into one of my own deep seated beliefs..... Q :zzzzz:
 
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