Being accepted with the fetish

[scorpionldr]

That sounds pretty much like Germany!

and ironically, I'm somewhere around the 80 percent mark when it comes to being German. What a joy it is to have never been there! (not) :| .

I do not think we should put gender analysis, especially in regards to simple critique/opinion of the opposite sex, so simply based off of experience. There are three sides to every question when it comes to attraction: physical, mental, and emotional. The physical and mental attraction are the easiest to decipher(sight, experience and conversation). The emotional platitude, is always the hardest(acceptance and experience; ongoing or not ongoing). Experience maybe dismal, who knows? But, acceptance is very chaotic. You can not achieve a end, if you are not willing to confront one of your mean's - with them.

I think gender analysis is a perfect start to the question of how women function differently from men. I think the simple fact that males commonly die at earlier ages than females is a very telling point. There are many ways in which men are bred to read and react to their environment differently than their counterparts, and I think it says alot when you look into it.

In scorpion's defense, I've been thinking a lot about the whole confidence/self-image thing lately, for various reasons. It comes from within, but it most certainly comes from without as well; you can't really expect someone who's been abused, shit on, and rejected for their entire life to have a particularly healthy self-esteem or positive view of themselves and others (or even moreso, rule out abuse; what is left? You can certainly isolate another without even interacting with the person. Bullying, actually, in rationale, is considered a way of peers trying to peck out their peers' personality flaws to make them more common.); they're either going to think they're a complete waste of space and thus somehow deserve the abuse they're getting, or they're going to think everyone else is some kind of raving asshole for dumping on them unwarrantedly.

(Not saying scorpion is either of these extremes, I'm just spouting some generic examples.)

Take me, for instance. Lily can't understand why no one will date me. I don't understand it, either. In terms of self-image, I think I'm pretty damn great. I'm not a model, but I'm good-looking, especially for my age (no one ever believes I'm as old as I am). I'm college-educated. I play multiple musical instruments. I make good money (most of the time, anyway. I'm gambling on a startup right now.) I am, for all intents and purposes, a good person. I know my strengths, weaknesses, good points, and faults. I'm not overly angry, or abusive, or lazy. I'm not perfect, but I am human. I'm cool with all of this. (generally, I share in the same, as far as questionably good money (well factor in the economy, it sounds better lol) and I am a multi-instrumentalist, college educated, back at college and the like, etc. Lazyness I'd consider a subjective term. Someone's ratio of success is relative to the effort they put out, and their ratio to failure is going to influence their desire to keep trying. I don't want to portray the image I'm a do-nothing. Because I'm not. But I'm probably a pretty good example of a person that missed fundamental skills to building relationships, and who now needs to rehabilitate them manually)

However, no one ever says yes when I ask them out. My only options are online dating, where (and statistics back them up) I will by virtue of being a male suffer a 10% response rate. Mine is actually lower than that, despite having a lengthy, well-written profile and some excellent photos taken by a near-professional photographer friend of mine. I do everything you're supposed to do that people say will make you appear favorably in terms of people wanting to date you. Except... none do.

Here's the funny thing, though; I have a vast amount of numerical data that supports the notion that, on a whole, women don't find me attractive. But if I say that, I get told I don't have confidence or self-esteem. Heck, you can wander back to that thread here about whether or not it's a good idea to compliment women on their feet in public, where I write at length about how interacting with people can sometimes feel like a guessing game that you get hammered at for losing, and Cif (female), chimed in with a snark about how it was "obvious" why no one wanted me.

You want a further mindfuck? My female friends like to post articles on Facebook from feminist websites, or rant about guys who approach them. You also see it on dating sites, where women complain about "come ons" from guys who clearly don't measure up to whatever standards they think they deserve. The message, then, is that these guys should clearly have known that she wouldn't be interested, and needs to be shamed for talking to her anyway. That stupid, clueless guy, they say, what possessed him to think I'd want his sorry ass?

What possessed him, indeed. Confidence and a healthy self-image, maybe? That guy thought he was worth her time. She disagreed. And, of course, her opinion mattered. His didn't. (well, when modern commercial image of modern man makes modern man look like a bumbling jackass who messes up any situation he's in, it doesn't say alot for the modern social expectations in the capacity of the male gender, does it?)

We love to line up, point, and laugh at "clueless" people for not knowing their limitations; we don't watch American Idol to see who wins, we watch to see who Simon Cowell is going to rip a new one for. That idiot didn't know they couldn't sing? What planet do they live on, anyway?(we've devolved into a culture of various memes; it's probably gone too far to fix. The same people that will watch South Park's latest on "raising the bar" will go to make a snap judgement or indulgence in something equally, if not more stupid. We don't even know how far gone we are in that regard, we just know that taping obese rednecks who are proud to get in front of any camera they can for the sake of receiving money feels wrong to encourage)

And yet, at the same time, how many of those people were encouraged to follow their dreams, to go audition anyway, to have the courage and the confidence to take the shot?

I figured there must be something wrong with me. After all, I was all sorts of great stuff, but still, no one gives me the time of day. According to all these articles, and womenfolk, I must've been doing something to turn people off. So, I asked some folks close to me what it was.

Want to know what they said?

"The biggest reason people are turned off by you is that you think there's something wrong with you, but there isn't."

Let that sink in for a moment.

Seriously, think about it for a bit.

My problem is that I think there's a problem. Talk about circular logic. And yet, I only think there's a problem because I'm constantly being bombarded with the message that there is a problem from people who rant about people who don't think there's a problem.

Hey, fuck 'em, right? Who cares what they think?

In theory, that's a great idea, but if there's one thing I've learned, it's that when it comes to finding a relationship, it damn well matters what other people think, because you are trying to attract other people.

And, if I notice that a lot of people are rejecting me for vaguely silly, superficial reasons (my favorite so far is, "You play guitar? I don't like loud music. It wouldn't work out between us."), and I actually say "Hey, I'm meeting a lot of superficial, silly people...", what'll happen? People will trot out that tired, "point one finger, there's three pointing back at you" mantra. Because, clearly, it's my fault for them being that way.

(This is the part you should have skipped to if you didn't want to be arsed reading that whole thing.)

I think that when it comes to confidence and self-esteem, it's unrealistic to expect it to come fully from within. You can only work with what you're given, especially when one of the messages you're given is that you're a clueless moron if you hold an opinion that is clearly false - even if, to everyone you meet, that opinion is that you're a worthwhile human being. We really shouldn't immediately jump to the "You must be a loser" conclusion when people express having difficulties, especially when they sound angry. Of course they're going to sound angry. Or bitter. Or frustrated. That doesn't mean they have anger issues, and ergo that's why they aren't getting anywhere. The anger didn't come first, even if it may be perpetuating the situation now.

Anyway. Tying that back into the thread proper, I don't think scorpion's problem is entirely as cut-and-dry as "you lack self-esteem", or even my earlier comment "you're creeping them out". The truth, of course, is somewhere in the middle.

Thanx for the kind words.

What a very well thought out and articulate message. I liked reading your take on this, and I'm not going to necessarily disagree with you.

In my own experiences, I have been that guy who is always a friend and nothing more. I've had a few romantic relationships but not many at all. I kept listening to all the rejections from the women of why I'm not the right kind of guy. I've heard everything from the most simplistic superficial reasons to other reasons that made absolute sense.

You are absolutely correct that you do care when trying to meet a person who you want to date. The light bulb that went off in my head was that sure I care that they think good of me, but if they don't...well that isn't going to deter me anymore or change the way I look at myself. I allowed that to happen so often in my life that it made me question exactly who I was as a person.

The one thing I realized is that nobody is going to feel good about me if I don't feel good about myself. As cliche as that sounds....it has been successful for me. Rather than worry so much about what they think of me...I give them who I am and they have an option...take it or leave it. I will continue to be myself and like it regardless of which she chooses.

I think confidence and self-esteem do come from within yourself. It goes beyond relationships with women...it goes to your successes in life. Look at you Phin...like you said...you make a decent living, good looking even if not a model, can play multiple musical instruments, and are an all around decent human being...that right there is what builds confidence and self-esteem because you achieved those things. Granted looks maybe more inherited but if you exercise then you contribute to it as well. You have done all those things without someone in your life. That is all you and if that isn't enough for some women...well God bless em because they must have ridiculous standards. You have no control over what they will think...all you can do is be you and be proud of it.

All one must do is look at their own success in life, and stop putting so much emphasis in how other people see you. Why? Because they haven't lived your life...they don't know what it took to be you and have your success. All they see is that one person for those couple hours during the date...well, in those couple hours if they see some sort of flaw...sucks for them. It's not always easy to do, but it helps give you a clear view of these situations.

I think you are right about Scorpion's issues too. No, it isn't that he is creepy or has low self-esteem. I think there are underlying things that he should work on within himself. First and foremost, accepting who he is and not allowing a person who he may see 2 hours out of his years long life dictate the self-esteem.

Self-esteem comes from within oneself. Yes, other people can affect it...those people shouldn't be ones you know little to nothing about or haven't spent much time with.

As much as I hate to come off as a prick, I'll do it anyways: you're wrong. confidence is entirely originated from other people, even in animals. If it's pups, its the runt of the litter, who someone rehabilitates them into socializing with others, or judges them as "sick" and leaves them to die, excluded. It has to do with personality, but only because of the fact that personality makes the distinction on how well you are able to interact with others.

A further point, I'm not a self loathing slouch! why does every guy who doesn't fit the rigid image of "great" have to be considered "negative"? It seems like it's just another way to blanket statement others. Yea, there ARE things that make people creeps. But it's the STANDARDS that people use to judge what is creepy!

That's basically my position. I accept who and what I am, and what I am is a pretty darn decent person who, for whatever reason is not attractive to women. Thing is, when I say that, people jump down my throat. "Oh, you must feel that way because you have poor self image, if you like yourself, they will, too!"

Well, no. They won't. I didn't invent that evaluation out of thin air. I think it's pretty safe to assume that if no one wants to date you, a fair assumption is that it's because you're not attractive to them. Even so, that doesn't make me a bad person. That's the mistake I used to make; I used to assume women rejecting me was because there was something inherently wrong with me that I had to change, and if I could just change it, then I'd be attractive.

I no longer feel that way. And, true to form, naturally nothing's changed. I'm no more or less attractive than I used to be. The difference is, I don't let it affect me. (This where some wag will come in and say "Well then, now you're going to find someone!" - and it's bull. I've been like this for a while. No one cares.)

Thing is, I also get jumped on for saying "it's their problem". Yeah, some women have retarded standards. (Also, some women are just retarded. They're human. They're not perfect.) I mean, what's the conclusion to draw, there? That every woman in the Bay Area has ridiculous standards? I know they don't. I mean, all of my female friends are sweet, wonderful people. They have the boyfriends and husbands to prove it. The single ones are usually all too willing to refuse to go out with me because I'm not into extreme sports (another true story), while simultaneously complaining "Where are all the good men?"

Anyway. My point is, sometimes it's within, sometimes it's without. You kinda have to care what other people think, 'cause if everyone thinks it, it must be true, right? Unfortunately, that's too simplistic an answer; after all, most of the people I went to high school with thought I was garbage. On the other hand, if every woman you meet thinks you're creepy... you're creepy.

at best I used to hear I was cute. Now.........not so much. As far as creepy........nobody's really come full throttle and put it that way, but I can tell something doesn't fully click.

 

[Jagermeistered]

I think gender analysis is a perfect start to the question of how women function differently from men. I think the simple fact that males commonly die at earlier ages than females is a very telling point. There are many ways in which men are bred to read and react to their environment differently than their counterparts, and I think it says alot when you look into it.

This so-called objectivist theory that you present, is way off-base. Not all men are groomed the sameway, and women also fall into this category. Sure, we can blame society as a whole(conformity) for all your woes! But, it is not society to blame for your individualism. Individual attraction is created by mutual acceptance, and no person should be forced to respect your own personal gratification! Acceptance is the key, and not the demand or requirement for respect.

That acceptance requires time and honesty! I would agree that time-preference maybe a major segregating factor between the two sexes. And, the time-preference that negatively effects the male is: anxiety. They either die sooner, or become creeps - worthy of restraining orders, prison, or other more vicious outcomes of justice.

 

[rhiannon]

confidence is entirely originated from other people

I'm sorry, but you're wrong here. If you meet someone who has never met you before, they react to the way you behave. If your self-esteem is low, they react accordingly, if it is high, they react accordingly. So it depends on what kind of self-esteem you're "radiating" how you are being treated.

Psychologists can train you building up self-esteem. They wouldn't be able to do that if it was originated from other people.

 

[scorpionldr]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong here. If you meet someone who has never met you before, they react to the way you behave. If your self-esteem is low, they react accordingly, if it is high, they react accordingly. So it depends on what kind of self-esteem you're "radiating" how you are being treated.

Psychologists can train you building up self-esteem. They wouldn't be able to do that if it was originated from other people.

You don't see what you said? Really? People "train" people into having confidence (not self-esteem, the two are different).

I'm not saying there's no individual aspect to finding confidence. I'm mostly trying to say that I think most people start out alone and by being incorporated into activities/groups they begin to build their confidence, and then after a while they sustain it on their own. If someone's constantly encouraged, they'll begin to encourage themselves. If someone's morals/habits/ideas are constantly questioned, they'll commonly fall into the habit of questioning themselves. It has many variables on when/how it starts, but to me I see that as "other people".

Also.....don't confuse confidence for self-esteem. Just because a person likes the way they are and what they've grown to be doesn't mean someone isn't going to question whether or not other people are going to ridicule them. Or not feel anxious meeting other people.

 

[Jagermeistered]

You don't see what you said? Really? People "train" people into having confidence (not self-esteem, the two are different).

I'm not saying there's no individual aspect to finding confidence. I'm mostly trying to say that I think most people start out alone and by being incorporated into activities/groups they begin to build their confidence, and then after a while they sustain it on their own. If someone's constantly encouraged, they'll begin to encourage themselves. If someone's morals/habits/ideas are constantly questioned, they'll commonly fall into the habit of questioning themselves. It has many variables on when/how it starts, but to me I see that as "other people".

Also.....don't confuse confidence for self-esteem. Just because a person likes the way they are and what they've grown to be doesn't mean someone isn't going to question whether or not other people are going to ridicule them. Or not feel anxious meeting other people.

So, you do not see the inter-relationship between confidence and self-esteem? Self-esteem is intrinsic, and confidence is extrinsic. These valuations are propelled by the individual - yourself. If you allow people outside you to punish your confidence, then you never had confidence to begin with. Your confidence is your movie! When other people write your movie: I guess you are just a puppet with no valor.

 

[rhiannon]

So, you do not see the inter-relationship between confidence and self-esteem? Self-esteem is intrinsic, and confidence is extrinsic. These valuations are propelled by the individual - yourself. If you allow people outside you to punish your confidence, then you never had confidence to begin with. Your confidence is your movie! When other people write your movie: I guess you are just a puppet with no valor.

Exactly!

I'm mostly trying to say that I think most people start out alone

Well, most people start out with their parents. It is true though that parents can build or damage self-esteem as well as confidence. That is where everyone's original sense of self-value (let's give it a total new word here ) originally comes from. And yes, if it gets messed up at that point, it is very very difficult to gain it back, but not impossible!

If someone's morals/habits/ideas are constantly questioned, they'll commonly fall into the habit of questioning themselves.

But now here I am asking you: who in the world will be questioned constantly and by everybody, except maybe Ed Gein and that vor good reason? (And probably even that guy has fans!) Nobody is a victim everywhere, with everybody and at all times!

Just because a person likes the way they are and what they've grown to be doesn't mean someone isn't going to question whether or not other people are going to ridicule them.

Personally I don't care if people are going to ridicule me, because it is my opinion if someone needs to ridicule someone else to feel great it's them with the problem, not me.

 

[scorpionldr]

Exactly!



Well, most people start out with their parents. It is true though that parents can build or damage self-esteem as well as confidence. That is where everyone's original sense of self-value (let's give it a total new word here ) originally comes from. And yes, if it gets messed up at that point, it is very very difficult to gain it back, but not impossible!



But now here I am asking you: who in the world will be questioned constantly and by everybody, except maybe Ed Gein and that vor good reason? (And probably even that guy has fans!) Nobody is a victim everywhere, with everybody and at all times!



Personally I don't care if people are going to ridicule me, because it is my opinion if someone needs to ridicule someone else to feel great it's them with the problem, not me.

as others say tho, if you are critiqued for the person you are as one who's wanting to meet people, it does have some role. You don't have to let it completely turn your life upside down, but being aware is better than being clueless.

So, you do not see the inter-relationship between confidence and self-esteem? Self-esteem is intrinsic, and confidence is extrinsic. These valuations are propelled by the individual - yourself. If you allow people outside you to punish your confidence, then you never had confidence to begin with. Your confidence is your movie! When other people write your movie: I guess you are just a puppet with no valor.

well let's take the words esteem/confidence and lump them into a category, a really basic one: comfort. I think it's pretty clear that most people want to be comfortable with themselves.

Let's take me for example. I'm not really flashy (because I don't feel like that's me). I'm handsome from angles. Yea, I'm overweight, but I put effort into trying not to be. I'm pretty free with what I say in the open around friends, I rarely consider others. I'm introverted, but I'll interact with people at leisure. I have a fair amount of acquaintances. I play concerts here and there. In all ways, I'm pretty comfortable with the person I've allowed myself to become.

When I find myself attracted to others tho, I'm not really that open. I'm pretty quiet. I keep my distance. I generally try and say enough without saying too much when I approach. I don't try to waste time.

I am a comfortable person who is secure with himself, but that doesn't mean I don't hold my own limitations. But I don't see that as lacking confidence, I see that as being smart and knowing when to be clear of people.

 

[Jagermeistered]

well let's take the words esteem/confidence and lump them into a category, a really basic one: comfort. I think it's pretty clear that most people want to be comfortable with themselves.

Let's take me for example. I'm not really flashy (because I don't feel like that's me). I'm handsome from angles. Yea, I'm overweight, but I put effort into trying not to be. I'm pretty free with what I say in the open around friends, I rarely consider others. I'm introverted, but I'll interact with people at leisure. I have a fair amount of acquaintances. I play concerts here and there. In all ways, I'm pretty comfortable with the person I've allowed myself to become.

When I find myself attracted to others tho, I'm not really that open. I'm pretty quiet. I keep my distance. I generally try and say enough without saying too much when I approach. I don't try to waste time.

I am a comfortable person who is secure with himself, but that doesn't mean I don't hold my own limitations. But I don't see that as lacking confidence, I see that as being smart and knowing when to be clear of people.

-scorpionldr

You sure are a introvert... That is a lot of freaking I's! I am also a introvert, but combatting that is quite easy! It is called listening, and sharing a open conversation with others. It could be friendly, conventional, debate, flirtatious, etc... And, avoid talking about "I" too much.

 

[scorpionldr]

-scorpionldr

You sure are a introvert... That is a lot of freaking I's! I am also a introvert, but combatting that is quite easy! It is called listening, and sharing a open conversation with others. It could be friendly, conventional, debate, flirtatious, etc... And, avoid talking about "I" too much.

Well it's not like I was talking about you.

It's hard to discuss myself without using I's.

And yea, I'm an introvert, that's because I've been trained to be good at it! Society, man!

 

[rhiannon]

I am a comfortable person who is secure with himself, but that doesn't mean I don't hold my own limitations.

So what exactly is the problem?

 

[scorpionldr]

So what exactly is the problem?

................that as much as I try not to be a creep, I feel treated like a creep.

 

[jhop220]

As much as I hate to come off as a prick, I'll do it anyways: you're wrong. confidence is entirely originated from other people, even in animals. If it's pups, its the runt of the litter, who someone rehabilitates them into socializing with others, or judges them as "sick" and leaves them to die, excluded. It has to do with personality, but only because of the fact that personality makes the distinction on how well you are able to interact with others.

A further point, I'm not a self loathing slouch! why does every guy who doesn't fit the rigid image of "great" have to be considered "negative"? It seems like it's just another way to blanket statement others. Yea, there ARE things that make people creeps. But it's the STANDARDS that people use to judge what is creepy!

Never once did I call you a self-loathing slouch. Not once and I won't.

It is absolutely wrong to sit there and say confidence fully comes from other people. THAT IS WRONG! It comes through personal success and the ability to overcome the obstacles in your own mind. How do you do that? You don't heavily rely on the negatives so much. You are doing that to be blunt.

You wanna come off better towards women? Be yourself and keep the fetish to yourself when you first meet up with them. Have small talk and gradually grow a relationship. Rome wasn't built in a day. You have to have foundation to any relationship which is what? Trust and Respect. If you don't establish that then you have a house of cards that will fall.

Another thing is that if YOU don't have confidence in yourself then nobody else will. I learned that in order to be a better person and come off as a better person to others...I had to believe in myself. It works because you have inner strength. The question is...Will you harness it or continue to ignore it?

 

[Aboundtime]

From my experience is that more women are accepting of me when I'm not hiding a secret fetish. I don't understand those people who attempt to "rid" their fetish. Hey there could be worse fetishes like scat.

 

[Jagermeistered]

Well it's not like I was talking about you.

It's hard to discuss myself without using I's.

And yea, I'm an introvert, that's because I've been trained to be good at it! Society, man!

Incorrect - society: teaches you to be more senile. Individualism, is not a list cause, but is due too laziness and conformity, "the masses." if you do not continue too take chances, we will always be a minority.

 

[Jagermeistered]

From my experience is that more women are accepting of me when I'm not hiding a secret fetish. I don't understand those people who attempt to "rid" their fetish. Hey there could be worse fetishes like scat.

This is a bad metaphor! Who cares about somebody else's fetish? Leave them alone! Once you divide fetishes like a black versus white paradigm - it is no wonder tickle, belly, foot, etc... Fetish; is seen as a monster and a bugaboo!

Stop the judgement, and respect individualism!

 

[scorpionldr]

Never once did I call you a self-loathing slouch. Not once and I won't.

It is absolutely wrong to sit there and say confidence fully comes from other people. THAT IS WRONG! It comes through personal success and the ability to overcome the obstacles in your own mind. How do you do that? You don't heavily rely on the negatives so much. You are doing that to be blunt.

You wanna come off better towards women? Be yourself and keep the fetish to yourself when you first meet up with them. Have small talk and gradually grow a relationship. Rome wasn't built in a day. You have to have foundation to any relationship which is what? Trust and Respect. If you don't establish that then you have a house of cards that will fall.

Another thing is that if YOU don't have confidence in yourself then nobody else will. I learned that in order to be a better person and come off as a better person to others...I had to believe in myself. It works because you have inner strength. The question is...Will you harness it or continue to ignore it?

I admit I was a bit quick to make an absolute statement.

Incorrect - society: teaches you to be more senile. Individualism, is not a list cause, but is due too laziness and conformity, "the masses." if you do not continue too take chances, we will always be a minority.

Senile I've probably become.......I've been used to this mindset that I get from myself and others that if you have something special you want to say but don't know the best way to say it it's better not to say it.

 

[Jagermeistered]

Never once did I call you a self-loathing slouch. Not once and I won't.

It is absolutely wrong to sit there and say confidence fully comes from other people. THAT IS WRONG! It comes through personal success and the ability to overcome the obstacles in your own mind. How do you do that? You don't heavily rely on the negatives so much. You are doing that to be blunt.

You wanna come off better towards women? Be yourself and keep the fetish to yourself when you first meet up with them. Have small talk and gradually grow a relationship. Rome wasn't built in a day. You have to have foundation to any relationship which is what? Trust and Respect. If you don't establish that then you have a house of cards that will fall.

Another thing is that if YOU don't have confidence in yourself then nobody else will. I learned that in order to be a better person and come off as a better person to others...I had to believe in myself. It works because you have inner strength. The question is...Will you harness it or continue to ignore it?

Obstacle: this is a word to remember!

 

[Jagermeistered]

Senile I've probably become.......I've been used to this mindset that I get from myself and others that if you have something special you want to say but don't know the best way to say it it's better not to say it.

Are you talking about being sexual, or in general discussion?

 

[scorpionldr]

Are you talking about being sexual, or in general discussion?

I don't think women see me as a "sexual being" honestly. So that's one thing I have to work at. We'll see how Mike Chang's six pack shortcuts fares.

And after two years of working at a tire warehouse as a biller (doing some phones as well) I've noted I sound quite a lot like Milton from Office space after a bit.

So I feel in those areas I'm weak. Looking realistically at the situation of where I've come from.

 

[rhiannon]

don't think women see me as a "sexual being" honestly

Is it possible you are "hunting out of your league"?

................that as much as I try not to be a creep, I feel treated like a creep.

Can you give me examples?

 

[Cavum]

I posted on a dating site forum that basically was about another topic but some people looked at my profile and noted it, but it went no further.

This on the record, I've met a few girls who would tolerate talking about it for a bit, and then one in particular was like "can you please shut the fuck up about it, I overlooked it to be nice.". Needless to say, she was done.

One guy friend I have "found me out" lurking online, having googled something about me, and basically still tries to hold it over my head.

Acceptance? I rarely find it in the area of tickling. Maybe if I just become some woman's puppy love interest or some unemotional robot I'd be more happy with my life, but this fetish? .........it seems impossible.

Dude...when a girl says "shut the fuck up" about the topic, then it's NOT her things. Seems like your forcing the subject on em to much or to soon to be honest.
And about your so called "friend"....friends don't use stuff like this against you. If I was you I would have told that fucker to piss off a long time ago. And if he is such a asshole and use it against you, then stay strong
and have some self-irony. It's like being in a pack of animals. The weak one will get "killed". Be proud of who you are and show that to people.

Acceptance is EVERYWHERE. Tickling fetish is harmless! Take me for example. I like plenty of other stuff than tickling and feet. I love to whip and cane girls so they cry for mercy, choke hold, playrape, total power exchange etc etc. And guess what....I get accepted cause I stand for who I am and Im not afraid to give information about the subject if people wonder about what this is. The most important thing I say is that this is consensual.

I also have alot of self irony and joke about the fetish stuff. Like the guys at work always do fun stuff about my fetishes. One day my boss told me:
-Boss: Hey Espen, I found a really awesome pornmovie for you!
-Me: Oh really?
-Boss: Yeah it's called "Happy Feet".
*me and my whole team laugh our asses off*

I got a new goverment railroad job in january 2011. In december 2010 I outed myself on national TV about my fetsihes. EVERYONE at work (about 600-700 where my HK is) knew what I was into.
So when I got the new job and had to present myself to my other 70 co-workers in that unit I sayd: "Hey my name is Espen, as seen on TV". Everybody laughed and the ice was broken right away.

It's not like Im forcing what I like on everyone, but when the subject comes up Im not afraid to tell em. If you where open about stuff I think you would be surprised on how many of your friends/co-workers that also are into stuff. We had a small pre-Christmas gathering at work some weeks ago (only 14 people). After alot of alcohol I found out that 1 is a switch/painslut and 1 was also Dominant in BDSM, 1 is gay and also a "leatherman" into BDSM. Being into something is totally normal.

No matter what you or others say or feel about the subject....WE ARE NORMAL!


And for those who are curious on the TV part, here is the "demo" part of the show where I do foot tickling and bastinado
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuScwigQ1BM&
<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NuScwigQ1BM?version=3&hl=nb_NO"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NuScwigQ1BM?version=3&hl=nb_NO" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

 

[scorpionldr]

Dude...when a girl says "shut the fuck up" about the topic, then it's NOT her things. Seems like your forcing the subject on em to much or to soon to be honest.
And about your so called "friend"....friends don't use stuff like this against you. If I was you I would have told that fucker to piss off a long time ago. And if he is such a asshole and use it against you, then stay strong
and have some self-irony. It's like being in a pack of animals. The weak one will get "killed". Be proud of who you are and show that to people.

Acceptance is EVERYWHERE. Tickling fetish is harmless! Take me for example. I like plenty of other stuff than tickling and feet. I love to whip and cane girls so they cry for mercy, choke hold, playrape, total power exchange etc etc. And guess what....I get accepted cause I stand for who I am and Im not afraid to give information about the subject if people wonder about what this is. The most important thing I say is that this is consensual.

I also have alot of self irony and joke about the fetish stuff. Like the guys at work always do fun stuff about my fetishes. One day my boss told me:
-Boss: Hey Espen, I found a really awesome pornmovie for you!
-Me: Oh really?
-Boss: Yeah it's called "Happy Feet".
*me and my whole team laugh our asses off*

I got a new goverment railroad job in january 2011. In december 2010 I outed myself on national TV about my fetsihes. EVERYONE at work (about 600-700 where my HK is) knew what I was into.
So when I got the new job and had to present myself to my other 70 co-workers in that unit I sayd: "Hey my name is Espen, as seen on TV". Everybody laughed and the ice was broken right away.

It's not like Im forcing what I like on everyone, but when the subject comes up Im not afraid to tell em. If you where open about stuff I think you would be surprised on how many of your friends/co-workers that also are into stuff. We had a small pre-Christmas gathering at work some weeks ago (only 14 people). After alot of alcohol I found out that 1 is a switch/painslut and 1 was also Dominant in BDSM, 1 is gay and also a "leatherman" into BDSM. Being into something is totally normal.

No matter what you or others say or feel about the subject....WE ARE NORMAL!


And for those who are curious on the TV part, here is the "demo" part of the show where I do foot tickling and bastinado
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuScwigQ1BM&
<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NuScwigQ1BM?version=3&hl=nb_NO"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NuScwigQ1BM?version=3&hl=nb_NO" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

I'll give you credit, you're open. Then again, you're in Europe, forget Norway, (don't take it the wrong way, just saying). There's not much about Europe that doesn't fit the word "friendly". The US is.......think "stranger danger" about alot of things. It makes things particularly suspicious to start off with. Then there's my state. Congested. I honestly think it's a location thing. But I'll consider opening up.

And fyi, this girl I think I mentioned it at a max of twice.

Is it possible you are "hunting out of your league"?



Can you give me examples?

I've tried the very "bottom floor" of "my league", and I never made judgments while others pointed out I was going "pretty low".

The ones that try to be "friends" only to forever postpone ever hanging out? The ones that say I'm a "sweet guy" but "it won't work out"? The ones that meet up and instantly delete your number after they talk about "friends"? The ones that give you their numbers so they don't look like a bitch yet they simply ignore your calls/texts?

I feel like I'm forever stuck in this set of double standards that really never even themselves out.

 

[Jagermeistered]

I'll give you credit, you're open. Then again, you're in Europe, forget Norway, (don't take it the wrong way, just saying). There's not much about Europe that doesn't fit the word "friendly". The US is.......think "stranger danger" about alot of things. It makes things particularly suspicious to start off with. Then there's my state. Congested. I honestly think it's a location thing. But I'll consider opening up.

And fyi, this girl I think I mentioned it at a max of twice.

I've tried the very "bottom floor" of "my league", and I never made judgments while others pointed out I was going "pretty low".

The ones that try to be "friends" only to forever postpone ever hanging out? The ones that say I'm a "sweet guy" but "it won't work out"? The ones that meet up and instantly delete your number after they talk about "friends"? The ones that give you their numbers so they don't look like a bitch yet they simply ignore your calls/texts?

I feel like I'm forever stuck in this set of double standards that really never even themselves out.

What kind of conversations do you carry? Do you bring up the "friendship" or "relationship": fork-in-the-road question? If a girl is single, you should not throw out any obstacles for a future "friendship." Are the two of you attracted to each other? If the sign says, Yes... Go for it! If the sign says, "No!" Well, move onward! Yes, guys and gals can be friends... But, platonic friendships are hard to come by!

 

[SpiffyTickler]

These threads always make me sad.

Pro-Tip: The best way to have your tickling fetish be accepted is by not immediately broadcasting it to every female you meet, and not being super creepily obsessed about it. And unless all of your friends are extremely attracted to you and want to get in your pants, you don't need to broadcast to your platonic friends about what gets you hard without being asked or prompted to by them first.

I've dated plenty of people, been in multiple relationships, and I've never had an issue indulging my fetish because I'm not a total creeper about it. You don't need to ask a girl if she she's ever thought about being tied spread-eagle, blindfolded and tickle tortured within your first few interactions with her, and you'll live even if you don't awkwardly force a conversation over to how ticklish her feet are.

And when you do get to a point where it's appropriate to let them know what turns you on, don't make such a big deal about it.

If you are a cool person, and someone likes you a lot, then they'll be interested in knowing what turns you on and things will work out from there.

 

[rhiannon]

There's not much about Europe that doesn't fit the word "friendly".

You have obviously never been to Europe!