Bombs in London

[Low_Roads]

I'm very lucky to be alive today. I was around the kings cross area just before the explosions. If I was delayed about 2 - 3 minutes, I may not even be here today.

That's blood-chilling, Bob. So sorry this happened, but so grateful you escaped harm.

 

[Neutron]

First Of All

I'm sorry for my English brothers and sisters. I find it abhorant someone could attack innocent civilians.

Second: NO terrorist group INCLUDING Al Queda has taken credit for the bombings. Before we blame "Muslims" or "Towelheads lets remember the a good old USA boy named McVeigh instigated the worst terrorist attack on US soil until 9/11.

Thirdly: Before anyone insists we fight anyone else I'd like to ask why YOU aren't over there fighting. I've been there many times. Put up or shut up. I hate and despise yardstick warriors and would just as soon shoot you as I would them.

Lastly: The war on terror is being won. Unfortunately it's not a war of territory so the tangible benefits can't be seen. But they are being disrupted and it takes more effort on their part to even mount one operation.


Tron

 

[Budweiserbob!]

Cheers little. I'm grateful to be alive, but I only wish I could say that to others. :sad:

 

[Budweiserbob!]

Thanks for the invitation dude.

But I better stay here in London. People to look after and family to protect.

 

[coloman]

Terrorism is something that has been a problem all over the world for far too long a time. My heart and prayers go out to the people of London who suffered the loss of their loved ones and it also goes out to people all over the world who suffered the same tragic loss. World leaders like Prime Minister Blair and President Bush have the guts to stand up to the terrorists and I thank God that they do. The only way to deal with all these terrorists groups is to ferret them out and kill them. They have no value for human life and a lot of them will die for their causes so why not kill them before they have a chance to kill more innocent people all over the globe. They only understand violence and death and they have no redeeming qualities at all so nobody in this world should feel remorse of any degree if we kill everyone of them we can when we are given the chance to do it.

 

[Goodieluver]

Hey guys. I just think I should extend a warm invitation to all of you to migrate to the safest country on earth ... Gods Own Land: New Zealand. In fact, the only terrorist bombing that's ever happened here was commissioned by the French government - 20 years ago today in fact when Greenpeace flagship Rainbow Warrior, which was about to depart Auckland to protest French nuclear testing in the Pacific, was bombed by the French secret service.

I feel so lucky that I live here. When I get on the bus I never even think that it might blow up. And the underground railways, well we are so behind the times that we don't even have that yet!

It is election year here, and you just know that you live in the greatest country on earth when all the politicians care to debate is whether taxation rates for higher earners should be 39% or 33%. I'm so thankful that I don't have to deal with this shit, and have every sympathy for those that do and may have to in the future (something tells me there will be more attempts to terrorise - but we MUST hold firm).

I hope these cowards are brought to justice, but I fear that they won't. Or otherwise, the head honchos will never be found and the only people to go on trial will be whipping boys and nominal defendants. To our Muslim brothers and sisters out there, fear not, you are still welcome in New Zealand - just not those of you of the extremist kind.

I hope everyone in London is ok, and for those that aren't I wish you a speedy recovery. For those who have lost a love one, deepest sympathies.

Dont you gotta deal with alot of movie producers filming there wanting to portray mideval type landscapes?

 

[Goodieluver]

I'm sorry for my English brothers and sisters. I find it abhorant someone could attack innocent civilians.

Second: NO terrorist group INCLUDING Al Queda has taken credit for the bombings. Before we blame "Muslims" or "Towelheads lets remember the a good old USA boy named McVeigh instigated the worst terrorist attack on US soil until 9/11.

Thirdly: Before anyone insists we fight anyone else I'd like to ask why YOU aren't over there fighting. I've been there many times. Put up or shut up. I hate and despise yardstick warriors and would just as soon shoot you as I would them.

Lastly: The war on terror is being won. Unfortunately it's not a war of territory so the tangible benefits can't be seen. But they are being disrupted and it takes more effort on their part to even mount one operation.


Tron

1. I believe it was reported that an egyptian terror cell possibly linked to al queda claimed responsibility, whether this is true or not is debatable. By bring up mcveigh, are u insinuating that it could have been an american or Brit or to say dont automatically assume its muslim? Thats like saying its wrong to automatically assume suicide bombings in Israel are majorly done by palestinians. Yes maybe it will be rare and against the trend but maybe the muslim people or other nation of people who are notorious for suicide attacks should talk to their own people and say "Dont do this, there is another way" They perpetuate their own negative stereotype.

2. im not over there because i would not pass the physical for air force, bad eyes and bad body type plus im in college. We have the right to talk on things we arent directly responsible in. By your rationale, no one can badmouth music if they dont play music

3 I argue if its being won,every suicide bomber leaves behind a family influenced by his actions and ways. Educating these people is the only way to defeat terror. When one falls, more rise in his place, this isnt a steadfast enemy on a battlefield we see. Hell, an american soldier accidently bumping into a native iraqi or afghani could be enough to turn him into a suicide bomber.

 

[Dude'sonfire]

I'm probably going to get viciously roasted for this, but here it goes...

First off, of course I feel for the dead and the people who cared for them. And I know I don't live in London, but even up here north of the border, it still kinda scares the shit out of me

But killing terrorists is not going to kill terrorism. You have to look for causes. You can kill terrorists all you like, but if you don't kill the system that's producing them, they'll continue to emerge. And the system that's producing them is sustained by our governments, and the corporations that our governments support.

We in the west love to guzzle gas in our cars. We love to consume all kinds of sports, cosmetic, and even toy products, produced in horrible conditions around the globe, by the barrel load. We swallow electricity like candy, and the growing numbers of obese and overweight individuals in the west clearly shows that we're eating more than our fair share of food. And we do this on the back of people in other parts of the world, quite overtly and quite blatantly.

Now put yourself in the position of someone who has grown up in a heavily impovrished country. And say that you knew that western exploitation and the overtly capitolistic attitudes of multinational corporations were largely to blame for that situation. Would you conceivably be angry enough to want to lash out at the people who were supporting such a system? People who had the power to change it if they really wanted?

Now I'm not saying for a second that these people are 'right' as such. But many of you hate terrorists enough to want to kill them... just food for thought.
And *of course* george bush and many people in power advertise that these people are just purely 'evil'; it makes them easier to hate. But the fact is, their situation is one of poverty and desperation, caused by the greed of others, and when you get that situation, you get terrorism.

I don't want to offend anyone who was personally affected by the bombings in London, and if I have, know that it wasn't my intention. But i don't apologize; I feel strongly about what I said.

 

[Dude'sonfire]

Oh I forgot to say... and I may once again get completely grilled for this... but the civilian casualties from this incident, and even from 9/11, pale utterly in number when compared to the civilian casualties resulting from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

This doesn't mean I don't care about the British and Americans concerned, it just means I care about the Iraqi's and Afghans concerned as well.

 

[Dade]

The # of casualties mean nothing. The fact that they were innocent people merely going about their daily business does.

The fact that they were brutaly murdered in a blatatant act of cowardice also does.

If one man, woman, or child dies in this manner anywhere in the world, it does not "pale by comparison".

Those responsible for this type of murder MUST be brought to justice.


~D

 

[Dude'sonfire]

I agree that they should be brought to justice. All I was saying that the people responsible for the deaths of those who were going about *their own* daily lives in Iraq and Afghanistan should be brought to justice also.
And I'm going to be completely honest here, however dangerous it might be, and say that I see being a suicide bomber as far less cowardly than sitting in the white house and not once firing a bulet or risk being hit by one. I have nothing but respect for soldiers and all that they risk, but as for the people in the suits, I simply can't say as much.

 

[Neutron]

Most Of Those Civilian Casualties..

Were due to their own peoples attacks.

OK educate a terrorist? LOL. So by your theory we could educate Nazi Germany not to exterminate Jews. History shows you cannot educate a fanatic.

Please do not compare asking someone to sacrifice their life with being a music critic. I've put my ass on the line many times over and any soldier will take offense to your comparison.

As of yet no one has taken credit. It could be IRA or any local dissident. To automatically blame muslims or Al Quiada is blatantly ignorant.

Tron

 

[asutickler1]

I agree that they should be brought to justice. All I was saying that the people responsible for the deaths of those who were going about *their own* daily lives in Iraq and Afghanistan should be brought to justice also.
And I'm going to be completely honest here, however dangerous it might be, and say that I see being a suicide bomber as far less cowardly than sitting in the white house and not once firing a bulet or risk being hit by one. I have nothing but respect for soldiers and all that they risk, but as for the people in the suits, I simply can't say as much.

This thread was created in response to a tragic attack upon innocent people. It isn't really an appropriate venue for the airing of wacky bleeding-heart political nonsense.

If you honestly can't tell the difference between murders committed intentionally by terrorists and people killed accidentally as collateral damage in a war... Then I'm afraid that your personal ideology has caused you to lose sight of the way things work in the real world.

 

[Cbarton]

This thread was created in response to a tragic attack upon innocent people. It isn't really an appropriate venue for the airing of wacky bleeding-heart political nonsense.

If you honestly can't tell the difference between murders committed intentionally by terrorists and people killed accidentally as collateral damage in a war... Then I'm afraid that your personal ideology has caused you to lose sight of the way things work in the real world.

All I can say is MEGA-DITTOS to that, Asutickler...

 

[Ghost_Host_9991]

"Never hate your enemies...it clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone

It is a wise practice to know *why* your enemy has become so. By his own admission, Osama said that his biggest issue with the west is our policies in the Middle East.

Now that being said, it is plainly obvious that we are not going to stop backing an ally like Israel...to do so would be traitorous. So in keeping with that rationale it is safe to say that Osama and those who follow him will never cease being our enemies.

Therefore, we can conclude that since the ideology will always be at odds, we must either triumph or face defeat. Do I like this administration? NO, I think they are reprehensible, and complete failures. I think mistakes were made (diverting resources from Afghanastan to a useless war in Iraq). But I also feel we have no choice but to accept the fact that this war is different. The victories will not be counted in the number of cities taken or the number of prisoners captured. In this case, victories come in the form of elections, schools opening, etc. It will take much longer than if we faced an enemy in open warfare, but maybe, just maybe people will eventually open their eyes and the bloodletting will stop...maybe.

 

[MistressValerie1]

I'm very lucky to be alive today. I was around the kings cross area just before the explosions. If I was delayed about 2 - 3 minutes, I may not even be here today.

I'm glad that you are OK. I was talking to someone on IM who was 2 blocks away from the bus explosion when it happened (I was online an hour after the attacks), so I got a direct feel for the events of that day.

I hope that people of all political persuasions will agree on our support for the victims and survivors of this horrible event, regardless of whatever disagreements we may have about Middle East policies or the War on Terror.

 

[Budweiserbob!]

Thanks Val. 🙂

 

[quillman0071]

Thank you.

..for the kind comments in support of those of us in the UK. In the aftermath of this dreadful event I have to admit to a feeling of pride at the behaviour and response of my fellow citizens, and that of course includes those of all races and creeds.

Whilst we may debate the merits of various international policies, interventions etc, I fail to see how actions such as this can ever be justified. Their sole aim is indiscrimate terror and I remain bemused at how these acts, perpetrated by 'idiots' are somehow contributing to the sum total of human happiness and greatness.

I believe it was Voltaire who said ' I disagree entirely with what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it'. It has been a priniciple of liberal democratic states, and by its very nature abused by those who seek to undermine the stability and freedom that such rights entail.

They will not prevail.

 

[Dude'sonfire]

This thread was created in response to a tragic attack upon innocent people. It isn't really an appropriate venue for the airing of wacky bleeding-heart political nonsense.

If you honestly can't tell the difference between murders committed intentionally by terrorists and people killed accidentally as collateral damage in a war... Then I'm afraid that your personal ideology has caused you to lose sight of the way things work in the real world.

I know that this is a response to a tragic event, and I did say in my original post that that was the first and foremost emotion in my mind and that it wasn't my intention to offend anyone.

I am only trying to undertsand something from another's point of view. I undertsand that civilian casualties in war are unavoidable, and that people say that they are sad but necessary, because the war is justified... All that I was trying to lay out in my original post was that it is at least understandable, if not morally 'right' necessarily, that the people responsible for events like that in London may see their own actions as justified, and that by supporting Wars against them rather than dealing with the reasons why they feel that way, we're not actually tackling the root problem. (I'm reffering to my first post on page four of this thread)

I don't want terrorism any more than anyone else, I simply think that the course of action our governments are taking is going to make it worse, rather than better, because they're making people in the middle east *more* angry, not less. It's *because* I *do* care about the people who suffer from events like this that I feel this way, not because I don't.

And in any case, I agree that whatever our political differences are, the human side of the situation is more important. I apologize if people felt I was trying to take emphasis away from the individuals affected; I was only offering a different point of view.

 

[Goodieluver]

Neutron, what do you think we did prior to WW2? We reeducated and used media to show how the extermination of the Jews and other ethnic minorities was wrong. Also you are in error to assume nazi germany as a whole would have to be reeducated because a small part of germany was actually responsible for the final solution, they just had all the power

I use the music crtitique comment because by your standard, if someone hasnt done something, they cant comment at all? That is Bullshit, we have the right of our opinion. Ive never done drugs, i say drugs are bad, does this mean i cant state that because ive never tried? I am not a soldier, probably never will due to circumstances beyond my control. I can critique tho, i can base opinions off what i have learned which is quite alot.

Dude, we have impoverished people here, we have people living on the streets all their lives, eating out of dumpsters and freezing to death in our winters, we dont see these people violently attacking the wealthy or bombing

And yes, people who intentionally attack and target civilians are evil. Civilian casualties do happen in war and its a tragedy, but not when you delib set off a bomb in a civilian sector. I cant tell you how many times i wanted to throw up when they'd report another bombing in some Israeli Night club or marketplace.

America isnt the "only" gluttonous nation, america is the largest if you not count russia but russia is not as densly populated as us. Why are there no massive attacks at say Japan, the home of most modern electronic developments, and they also use a crapload of juice to power their cities.

 

[shark]

A number of years ago, a relative of mine was mugged by a couple black youths. Some bystanders did help her off the street, and one even returned her empty purse. However, nobody was ever identified or arrested, much less tried.

Since the system couldn't get a chance to work, since society failed, and since I was more closely involved than any Al-Qaeda member is to Islam or
most Arabs, and I'm certain others would feel I was justified, should I have been able to drive into that neighborhood and start shooting any black male I saw?

Certainly, someone could see my point of view and allow me to do as I believed..... 🙄

 

[Triple T1]

This thread was created in response to a tragic attack upon innocent people. It isn't really an appropriate venue for the airing of wacky bleeding-heart political nonsense.

If you honestly can't tell the difference between murders committed intentionally by terrorists and people killed accidentally as collateral damage in a war... Then I'm afraid that your personal ideology has caused you to lose sight of the way things work in the real world.

Man,Asutickler you "hit the nail on the head"
I noticed that the media tries to use "white liberal guilt"tactics when explaining why the Muslim world hates us. The real reason is that they blame us is for helping to establish a non-muslim area in the middle east during the cold war(Israel) so we would have a potential allie against the Soviet Union who were trying to spread their influence in the Middle East at the time.
If the muslim world does'nt like that, they can suck my D***!
In the mid-eighties I went to a high school that had a black muslim gang called "The God Born"who almost dominated the school.Because of this I always seem to have a better understanding of how vile these people really are. There is no negotiating with them.You are either totally submissive to them or you are on their jihad list.They are also cowards when you fight back.
I'm glad to see that alot of people back President Bush on this thread.I was getting sick of people trying to comically criticise him because he decided to fight like a man,instead of getting "Frenchy".
Terrorism seemed to unfortunately work well against Spain,but as history shows,you do'nt mess with the British. Those terrorist bastards are celibrating now,but soon the United Kingdom will be sending them screaming strait to Hell!

 

[Ghost_Host_9991]

Hitting the Brits at home was (in my opinion) a serious tactical error. If history has taught us anything, it's taught us that you have better luck playing pick up sticks with your ass cheeks than breaking British resolve once they have a mind to fight. I have no doubt that time will bear out my assessment.

 

[Dude'sonfire]

lol well I'm getting a fair bit of hostility here, and I'm slightly outnumbered, so I'm just gonna shut my mouth. I'm sure we could argue for weeks and none of you would have shifted on the subject any more than me. At least now I have a better understanding and insight into why so many people support the war on Terror. And if we do catch them all and kill them, and that stops these attacks, I'll admit that my theories we're all bullshit on the spot.

Also, one final condolence to all the people affected in London.

Ciao.

 

[Goodieluver]

I think a major problem has been the lack of international response to any sort of terrorism, and this goes back all the way to the olympics when the i believe 16 israeli olympians were murdered in the hotel room by islamic fanatics. Terrorists now have the belief that they can do all this crap and get away with it, with the olympics, eventually the fanatics were hunted down but most of them escaped\were let to leave and these assholes were heralded as hero's in their countries, hell one is still alive and was filmed in a documentary based on those olympics and the OLYMPICS continued on, the international community needs to put its foot down and stop pussyfootin around this "oh we need to be respectful and not jump to conclusions", if a group does this, we go after them and we go after ANY NATION that habors them. Iraq did harbor terrorists, the info from iraqi intelligence reports proves this during the saddam regime.

Another example is the 1st world centre bombing, what action was taken against that? And if some action is taken, those who retaliate are considered the bad ones.
England cant take action, they're gonna be expected to be nicer and reasonable to this and not take agressive action

Why should we respect any country that harbors terrorists that kills civilians and sole purpose is to kill. An ultimatum should be given to these countries, either they deliver over the terrorists or they get raided. We shouldnt have to go into countries to get the terrorists, they should be given to us, otherwise they are in league with them.