Bret Hart Tribute: The True King of Kings.

[SlaverTickler]

The only thing this guy got wrong is that he had a 24 year career not "Nearly 20 years" as stated in the slide show.

Enjoy
ST

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[SlaverTickler]

A very talented character actor, without question.

Yep, of course, because their are so many actores who would literaly cut them their forheads with a razor blade for the sake of their craft. What an ignorant remark.

 

[FlockOfSeagulls]

Yep, of course, because their are so many actores who would literaly cut them their forheads with a razor blade for the sake of their craft. What an ignorant remark.

Why do you post about BreT Hart when OBVIOUSLY no one but yourself is eloquent enough( sarcasm ) to do him justice in your eyes. Are you his own private bodyguard, manager, and no.1 fan rolled into one?????????????????


If you are going to lose your cool on this subject; then have a one to one conversation with yourself , that way you will be happy

 

[Tantrum]

Sadly, when I think about Bret Hart, only one thing pops to mind.

 

[SlaverTickler]

Why do you post about BreT Hart when OBVIOUSLY no one but yourself is eloquent enough( sarcasm ) to do him justice in your eyes. Are you his own private bodyguard, manager, and no.1 fan rolled into one?????????????????


If you are going to lose your cool on this subject; then have a one to one conversation with yourself , that way you will be happy

Why do you comment on this thread if you feel this way?

 

[SlaverTickler]

Sadly, when I think about Bret Hart, only one thing pops to mind.

Would that be the 5 times he was world champ, or the 2 times he was IC Champ. Maybe it's his two runs with Jim Niedhart as a co-holder of the tag team titles. It could be that 24 years as a pro without injuring any of his co-workers, or the fact that he never cared about or wanted his own dressing room (unlike the Ultimate Warrior who go one before having done anything). More over he is the guy Vince McMahon chose to take the belt just before he sent an incompetent old man named Flair back to WCW.

You see their is this misconseption that "Ric Flair could wrestle a 60 minuet match with a broom stick and make it looks good." Well thats not possible, becuase 5 minuets into the match Flair would end up on the top rope, waiting for the broom stick to get up and throw him from it... broom sticks don't have arms to throw with, or legs to stand on. Now if he had a match with a crutch that would be different, cause then he's have something to lean on.

Flair had some great match, but they were all with great wrestlers. Bret Hart had great match with great wrestlers, and also with lesser performers ike Nash and Sid. Jacques Rougeau once said "Bret was the most generouse guy I ever worked with, he'd give you 70% of the match as long as the finnish was good.". I'll remember Bret for all the thing stated in that slide show, anyone who say other wise is just ignorant.

 

[FlockOfSeagulls]

Why do you comment on this thread if you feel this way?

Because you post a thread....which means you want to converse with others and then you rip a guy when he doesn`t throw a parade for Hart


That turns into a one-sided conversation.

 

[Tickle Fiend]

Bret is one of the all-time greats and accomplished a lot. However, the Screwjob will probably be the thing he is remembered for the most. Of all the things he's done throughout his career, that has been the most talked about. It's probably the most famous incident in American-wrestling history. Or at least it was until Benoit's death, and Owen's too. There's no definite answer to the GOAT. It'll always be Stone Cold to me.

 

[BigJim]

If Bret had a fault in the ring, it was that his finishes were a tad formulaic a lot of the time. The time he was at his peak was against him there though, as the transition from old fartdom to the more dynamic era we subsequently entered left him somewhat between the two. I do think he was adaptable though, and given more time in the WWF (no, I still hate those panda-loving bastards and refuse to use the new name) I think he would have evolved his character.

But as a wrestler and a professional, there are few to match him. He missed (I think) one plane in 24 years and that was because of extenuating circumstances.

As a kayfabe actor and promo giver he always made me care about his angle more than anyone else: it always seemed so much like there was something I, the fan, should care about in him winning.

I've read Shawn Michaels's autobiography and I think his version of events is selective to say the least, particularly his view of Bret's not wanting to drop the title to him. Bret's imminent departure from the Federation was one of the most untypical in wrestling history and I don't think it can be judged the same as any other old firing.

 

[SlaverTickler]

Because you post a thread....which means you want to converse with others and then you rip a guy when he doesn`t throw a parade for Hart


That turns into a one-sided conversation.

I don't have a problem with convercing with people. You want to debate about who the best was or currently is sure (well I am out of the loop on who's the best in ring working these day but...) but I didn't just "rip a guy" because of something he said about Bret, he took a shot at the entire indastry by calling him a "Charactore Actor". True their is alot of acting in the wrestling biz, but I would hardly compair gaining 200 lbs for Raging Bull to running a razor across your forhead. I know my spelling is bad, but it would seem your reading is worse.

 

[SlaverTickler]

First off thanks for posting Jim, it's good to see a fellow Hart fan on a thread with me this time 😀.

If Bret had a fault in the ring, it was that his finishes were a tad formulaic a lot of the time. The time he was at his peak was against him there though, as the transition from old fartdom to the more dynamic era we subsequently entered left him somewhat between the two. I do think he was adaptable though, and given more time in the WWF (no, I still hate those panda-loving bastards and refuse to use the new name) I think he would have evolved his character.

I understand what your saying about the 5 moves of doom (as I've heard them called) before a finnisher. In all fairness though alot of guys were, and still are, doing this. It build up antisapation (sp?) for the big move at the end of the march, and is also great for when it gets interupted somehow. It builds up dramma while still looking athletic and really thats what a pro wrestling match should be about. The real reason for wanting to get rid of Bret was his place in the locker room. He was well respected by the majority of the boys and was a real leader amongst them. When the racial stuff came about he spoke against it, when the idea of a lezbian angle between Sable and Marlena came up he spoke up on it (at the time Rena claimed she didn't want to do it). Vince got rid of Bret to send a message to the locker room... "I Own You." it had nothing to do with tradition because if anyone respected tradition it was Bret Hart.

But as a wrestler and a professional, there are few to match him. He missed (I think) one plane in 24 years and that was because of extenuating circumstances.

He worked for Vince for 14 years, and missed 2 shows (acording to Wrestling With Shadows). Just setting the record strait.

As a kayfabe actor and promo giver he always made me care about his angle more than anyone else: it always seemed so much like there was something I, the fan, should care about in him winning.

I consider him the Bruce Willis of wrestling. He wasn't flashy when he spoke, in fact he was pretty down to earth and normal. A working man's champ. Except for the pink tights you could almost imagine him working construction or as a cop. I think he would have been a good cop on a TV show.

I've read Shawn Michaels's autobiography and I think his version of events is selective to say the least, particularly his view of Bret's not wanting to drop the title to him. Bret's imminent departure from the Federation was one of the most untypical in wrestling history and I don't think it can be judged the same as any other old firing.

If you want a nutral take on everything all you have to do is read the wrestling observer. They did a huge write up that covered everything about the screw job. It is unfortunet that most wrestling fan will remember him for the screw job simply because they are to ignorant to remember anything else.

 

[BigJim]

If you want a nutral take on everything all you have to do is read the wrestling observer. They did a huge write up that covered everything about the screw job. It is unfortunet that most wrestling fan will remember him for the screw job simply because they are to ignorant to remember anything else.

Sadly, it's what I'll remember him for most too, not least because I was watching it live. I knew something was wrong or contrived immediately, because of the facial expressions of all involved.

 

[InspectorJapp]

More over he is the guy Vince McMahon chose to take the belt just before he sent an incompetent old man named Flair back to WCW.

Why would that matter to you? I thought Vince was the devil?

Anyway, I have nothing but respect for Bret Hart. I consider him to be one of the top-ten wrestlers of all time.

 

[BigJim]

Why would that matter to you? I thought Vince was the devil?

Anyway, I have nothing but respect for Bret Hart. I consider him to be one of the top-ten wrestlers of all time.

An Agatha Christie fan, IJ? 🙂

I have to admit here, that I'm a person who really cannot see what it is that everyone else in wrestling fandom saw in Ric Flair. (I'm assuming from your sig that you're a big fan of the Nature Boy.)

Even Mick Foley, who I respect as a person more than anyone else I've ever known be in the business, thinks Flair walked on water as a wrestler and promo cutter. I just thought he was a excessively wrinkled bloke who shreked "WHOO" a lot because he couldn't think of anything better to say and had the world's most unrealistic face-flop in history.

However, the other 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 of wrestling fans disagree with me and generally idolise the man, so I am in a minority of very few against a majority of zilions.

 

[InspectorJapp]

An Agatha Christie fan, IJ? 🙂

Yup. Poirot-fan, especially.

I have to admit here, that I'm a person who really cannot see what it is that everyone else in wrestling fandom saw in Ric Flair. (I'm assuming from your sig that you're a big fan of the Nature Boy.)

Even Mick Foley, who I respect as a person more than anyone else I've ever known be in the business, thinks Flair walked on water as a wrestler and promo cutter. I just thought he was a excessively wrinkled bloke who shreked "WHOO" a lot because he couldn't think of anything better to say and had the world's most unrealistic face-flop in history.

Yes, I'm a huge Flair-fan. And of course Ric was not perfect. But he was good enough that promotors found it worthwhile to hang the belt on him more times than anyone else.
The thing that made Flair a legendary figure is that he would make the other guy look good. Both by infuriating fans as the cocky Nature Boy, and by hanging on by the skin of his teeth in the actual match, and finally getting a win by cheating.
This was extremely valuable back in territorydays, as he would get the local guy over (no matter how good he actually was), thus filling seats after he had left.
When it comes to the mic-skills, I consider him one of the absolute best, along Dusty Rhodes, Jake the Snake, Ted DiBiase, AA, Mick Foley and a few others.

 

[BigJim]

Putting over he could do, without a doubt. My main problem with his in-ring performance, was that he was too over-acty, in much the same way as Curt Henig was.

AA?

 

[InspectorJapp]

Putting over he could do, without a doubt. My main problem with his in-ring performance, was that he was too over-acty, in much the same way as Curt Henig was.

Here we disagree. (I'm also a big fan of Mr. Perfect.)

AA?

Arn Anderson.

 

[Goodieluver]

Bret Hart sucks

 

[Tantrum]

Would that be the 5 times he was world champ, or the 2 times he was IC Champ. Maybe it's his two runs with Jim Niedhart as a co-holder of the tag team titles. It could be that 24 years as a pro without injuring any of his co-workers, or the fact that he never cared about or wanted his own dressing room (unlike the Ultimate Warrior who go one before having done anything). More over he is the guy Vince McMahon chose to take the belt just before he sent an incompetent old man named Flair back to WCW.

You see their is this misconseption that "Ric Flair could wrestle a 60 minuet match with a broom stick and make it looks good." Well thats not possible, becuase 5 minuets into the match Flair would end up on the top rope, waiting for the broom stick to get up and throw him from it... broom sticks don't have arms to throw with, or legs to stand on. Now if he had a match with a crutch that would be different, cause then he's have something to lean on.

Flair had some great match, but they were all with great wrestlers. Bret Hart had great match with great wrestlers, and also with lesser performers ike Nash and Sid. Jacques Rougeau once said "Bret was the most generouse guy I ever worked with, he'd give you 70% of the match as long as the finnish was good.". I'll remember Bret for all the thing stated in that slide show, anyone who say other wise is just ignorant.

I wish Vince McMahon had remembered all of that.

 

[BigJim]

Here we disagree. (I'm also a big fan of Mr. Perfect.)

So was I, particularly after he turned face at the 92 Survivor Series. Once he came back from that spine injury he seemed to have really sorted his game out. If you remember the time he dropepd the IC title to Kerry von Erich at Summerslam 90, not only did he take off and spin twice around in the air before landing after taking the Discus Punch, but he span in the opposite direction to the way the force of the punch should have thrown him. Also when he was supposed to have been knocked out on a ringpost by Ed Leslie at 'Mania VI in 1990? He twisted and danced like a landed fish for about ten seconds before actually "going unconscious". It just looked silly and over-sold both times.

By the time he turned face though he was a master performer. I just wanted to see him mince Lex Luger when he turned back heel, but we sadly never got to see it. He was a class guy who never minded putting someone over.

Arn Anderson.

Ahhh, should have realised.

 

[natural tickler]

Ric Flair to me is the greatest of all time, and not just because I was a fan. His ring skills and his ring psychology is second to nobody. All you have to do is look at the classic matches he had with Ricky Steamboat during the 70's and 80's over NWA US belt. These matches would go on for 90 minutes without a winner. He was the master of telling the story in the ring. He made everyone look good.

Bret Hart is one of the best, but Flair is the master. Period. End of sentence

16 times the Man.....WHOO!!!

oh by the way, HHH, the true King of Kings....there is only one

 

[BigJim]

And we all know how you get to be the new king if you're not actually royalty... marry a royal daughter.

 

[SlaverTickler]

Why would that matter to you? I thought Vince was the devil?

Anyway, I have nothing but respect for Bret Hart. I consider him to be one of the top-ten wrestlers of all time.

I don't think Vince is the Devil I think Vince is the guy the Devil looks up at from the pits and say's "Man I wish I was that damn evil.". I am glad that you respect Brets skill, but after reading Flairs book and his comments on the Owen Hart trial I can't respect him as a person. Plus I never saw Flair have a match where anybody other then him came out looking good, so he never really helped make anybody. The truth is that Flair politiced his way to everything he ever got, his bolgraphy is solid proof of this because it is 300+ pages of sucking McMahon's dick. The only reason he even had a job in the wrestling buisness after the Vince bought out WCW was because Steph was involved with Trips and Flair is Trips favorit wrestler from his youth.

If most people will remember Hart for the Montreal Screw Job then I'll probably remember Flair as the guy who spent the last 5 year of his carreer with his tongue so far up triple h's ass he could taist McMahon's load before Hunter could.

 

[SlaverTickler]

And we all know how you get to be the new king if you're not actually royalty... marry a royal daughter.

Haha, thats right. Hart is born of wrestling royalty, Hunter had to marry into it. In actuality he could only be a Prince or a lord. When it comes right down to it he is actualy more like the King of Queens HAHAHA!.

 

[SlaverTickler]

Ric Flair to me is the greatest of all time, and not just because I was a fan. His ring skills and his ring psychology is second to nobody. All you have to do is look at the classic matches he had with Ricky Steamboat during the 70's and 80's over NWA US belt. These matches would go on for 90 minutes without a winner. He was the master of telling the story in the ring. He made everyone look good.

Bret Hart is one of the best, but Flair is the master. Period. End of sentence

16 times the Man.....WHOO!!!

oh by the way, HHH, the true King of Kings....there is only one

In every good match ever had, the other guy carried him. He was 14 times the man in a company most people didn't watch, and ony 2 times the man where most people see it as important (Hart was 5 times the man in that company). Triple H isn't the king of anything... except maybe the Pig Pen Henry Godwin threw him in at one of the PPV's before he hooked up with Steph.