Censorship on the TMF?

[redway10]

I know this sounds harsh, but I do not understand the rationale for forcing the tickle palace thread closed and "new threads on the same topic will be removed if they provide no new information".

How often does this happen? Aren't there plenty of threads on this forum that beat a dead horse to a much greater degree than that one?

I think that the thread had a great variety of debate and information, although it was a bit contentious (less so than many other threads).

I don't mean to sound melodramatic or harsh, but this sure looks like pre-emptive censorship to me. Worse, I do believe that a moderator was removed after forcing a very similar thread closed months ago (and deleting some posts).

What do the other members think about this???

 

[Neutron]

Who Cares?

Who cares?

 

[venray]

I believe that if the moderators decide to close a thread or subject because it is no longer offering new or useful info...so be it. if there are threads that you feel should be closed as well, then report them and let the moderators decide..that is one of the reasons that they are moderators. 😎


Ven

 

[Dave2112]

All I want to know is what's at Area 51 and who "Deepthroat" really is....😀

 

[daryl]

I think the answer to that question is to look at a.m.t. Is it ANY fun to look there anymore? ALl there is arguments and flames and worse.

The moderators here have to prevent that from happening, while still trying to allow people to express opinions. It's a hard job and they have to strike a balance. There are defined rules for posting, and we should stick to them so that we all have a flame-free, pleasant place.

 

[Grad]

Actually, as far as that goes, it's taking the "ignorance is bliss" approach. There is useful OLD info for new members who want to know what's been going on before they arrived into tickling or the board.

 

[WallStreet]

The TicklePalace thread should have continued. It was not a case of our bashing Kuj. There were multiple supporters of Kuj still claiming that his video would soon be released. This was not by any means a one sided argument. It served as a warning to anyone new who might be foolish enough to send them money.
There was another thread up last night from TicklingDuo. That thread is now gone. Either that or I just can't find it. EvilQueen posted a remark, then moments later the posts started getting edited one by one. Now the entire thread is gone. I'm confused as to why someone would post a reply, then change their mind and delete the entire thread. Indecision and Leadership aren't a good mix. Again, maybe it's still up and I just can't find it. There was nothing volatile about the thread. TicklingDuo were looking to promote some vids that they made. There were some edgey subjects being covered, but NO flaming was involved.
I understand that the Forum must be kept clean and moderated. I have nothing against EvilQueen but I must say that it seems she's done more editing in the last week than Myriads, Mia, and Hal have combined done all year long. There IS such a thing as over-moderation.

 

[Haltickling]

WallStreet, the thread has never been deleted. It's still on page 2 of this section.

All mod actions are subject to approval from the other mods and Myriads. So if action is taken by whichever mod, you may safely assume that it's done on behalf of the whole 'management'. As you rightly remarked, evilqueen is one of our most active mods now, and we are very glad about that, as her way of handling problems is really professional.

I won't go into details of the reasons. Venray and daryl did that better than I could.

 

[TicklingDuo]

Hmmmm....

Actually, Hal...maybe I'm not awake yet, but I no longer see the thread I started either. If something came up that necessitated it's removal, I'm cool with that. I would be curious to know what that is, though. 😉

BTW, WallStreet...thanks for the defense. But, I trust the mods and don't care to question their good intentions. If they aren't always perfect, then it reminds us to look in the mirror and see that we aren't either. Overall, they do a damned good job without much in the way of even thanks.

Ann

 

[Myriads]

Warning many words follow, they may induce sleep or boredom:

Regarding the Palace thread:

Any thread that deals with a business gets to pass a few more hurdles then other threads. If some one has an issue with a vendor we feel that such things are best handled between the individual and the vendor off forum. We always request that. When a situation arises where there are clear problems with a vendor we allow threads to generate that act as warnings, there have been a few of these on the Palice in the three months or so. The Palace thread covered the issues that everyone seems to have, it detailed the situation where it stood, it was pretty clear that a problem exists. Job done. Now all it could do is rehash. We had already saw some posts that were pusing the line there, and decided that things were not going to get better thus it was locked. I'm sure if the situation changes, or doesn't in a reasonable amount of time a new thread will emerge. I don't doubt that if Leostar sees his tape or his money we'll hear about it. If we don't I safely assume that things are still mucked up.

As to the Ann thread:

I take responsibility for this ones dissapearence. Around Midnight EST it was brought to my attention that some posts had dissapeared in it, or changed. I looked into it, and found that the changes came from the user side as far as I could see. I assumed that the posters had reconsidered what they had wrote and removed or edited it. No mod removed things. Remember folks, a user can remove or change their own posts also.
Over the next hour I became aware that the thread was turning into yet another of the 'weight of people' thread. I see this topic as a pretty personal one, and one that people have a lot invested in the deep personal level. Everytime I've seen one of these in the last months, trouble has followed and lots of editing and deletions have been needed. I asked EQ to refocus the thread back to topic. She made a post to basically say that.
I then found out that regardless of this please 'focus on topic' post that the argument about weight and eating and all that stuff was going to continue.

It didn't leave me with many good choices.

As it was pushing 1AM and I was in no mood to deal with the inevitable fight that was clearly going to break out in the thread, I had it pulled. Removing the whole damed thing solved the problem rather quickly. A draconian fix was all I was up for at the time.

Also, seeing as the focus of the fight was not about the topic of the thread I felt pretty justified in cutting it out. I would have left the on topic stuff, but as so often is the case it was so mixed with the stuff causing issues that I saw no fast way of unmixing it. Ann, sorry to sink your topic, it was the metaphorical colateral damage.

As to EQ making the most edits this past week, allow me to make a correction to your perspective. Often when I'm in the chat room at night and an issue comes up I direct another mod to make a post or change in a thread because I have my hands full with something else. EQ is often on at the same time as I and is reachable by IM so I tag her. So many of her actions here were at my request. I've edited more posts then anyone in the last week, directly and indirectly.

We do the best we can. Not a single mod or myself makes a cent off this job, everyone is here as a favor. I consider this a HOBBY. We make edit calls based on a general set of agreed upon rules and personal judgement. It not simple. Every person on this forum has a different standard of what is 'ok' and what is not. We work to balance all of those folks views. So we often cut more then many would. To others we don't cut enough. No one is ever happy. And so it goes.

Remember folks. This forums topic, tickling is supposed to be something that is fun to all of us as a given. We are here to provide a place for the sharing of that spirit, and when we see it drifting off into places that to be frank, make people leave here feeling worse then they came, then something is wrong. So we step in and do our best to remove the problem and get us back on the path to enjoying ourselves.

Myriads

 

[ISUmark]

I think the moderators have done a very good job using their judgement on which threads should be deleted. Keep up the good work.

 

[evilqueen]

Thanks Myriads. I hadn't read Ann's thread till you pointed it out, and I was happy to help.

As for the Tickle Palace thread, I had followed it from its inception, and it was my decision to lock it.

 

[GuitarPeteTklr]

Kudos To The TMF Mods!

And this is coming from a poster who has had a voluminous and (what I believed was a) thoughtful post of his own deleted, due to a quote (of another member's prior post) which later became relevant to a personal attack (hence, an indirect breach of the "Golden Rule"), pulled (along with posts from the two adversary parties) myself!

Yet...I understand that this is what the mods had to do to maintain emotionally safety and a modicum of respect in the forum, based on the explanatory text of a follow-up post in the thread from the mod asked to administer the post:

...Remember folks. This forums topic, tickling is supposed to be something that is fun to all of us as a given. We are here to provide a place for the sharing of that spirit, and when we see it drifting off into places that to be frank, make people leave here feeling worse then they came, then something is wrong. So we step in and do our best to remove the problem and get us back on the path to enjoying ourselves...

On one hand, if you happen to be among those who have an appetite for flaming (AND, ERGO, BEING FLAMED), with a just a dash of tickling, there is a well known newsgroup on the Internet that can satisfy that urge quite vigorously...and the number of times I have been moved enough to post there in the past 5 years IS IN THE LOW 20s!

On the other hand, if you are among those in this forum who are EXTREMELY grateful that we are subjected to relatively little of that kind of behavior here in the TMF, I would like to point out that it is NO ACCIDENT or SHEER LUCK that this forum is relatively unafflicted with that scourge.

If you feel the same gratitude as I do... 😀

Please, thank a moderator...TODAY!

*GuitarPeteTklr shreds his way back into tickling oblivion*

 

[WallStreet]

Overmoderation is certainly better than no moderation at all, and I'm glad EvilQueen took no offense from my post.
I was on the Tickling Duo's thread while it was being edited and Myriads certainly has a point about it no longer made sense as a whole. The main message was unfortunately lost. I will simply state that the Tickling Duo is taking the initiative in an area not often touched by vids, and they have my respect for stepping up to the plate.

 

[Neutron]

Personally

The mods know full well that at times I feel they overmoderate. However I usually just bitch once and drop it. Usually when I get something deleted I view it as meaning I hit the mark SOMEWHERE.

Tron

 

[TicklingDuo]

Ann, sorry to sink your topic, it was the metaphorical colateral damage. Myriads

Not a problem Myr. *gives you a forgiving hug* I missed all the garbage that went on and wasn't sure what had happened. Someone told me about the flaming that had started and I figured that was the reason for cutting the thread. I would have liked for it to have been salvagable. But, apparently it wasn't. I'd rather lose a thread than see people ripping at one another. Sometimes, I feel like I'm watching the TMF equivalant of "The Bickersons" LOL

Ann

 

[mabus]

No spin zone

I agree that the moderators do a good job, after seeing the nightmare that is the newsgroups...last I checked, which was a few years ago, out of 100 messages posted, maybe two were about tickling. The others where either porn advertisements, which really wasn't that bad when you compare it to everything else which was there -hatred spewed on top of more hatred, about whatever those people were ranting about. It was a godawful mess.

However, in terms of free speech and dissent, I think this forum should be used to critique videos, sites, etc., freely, not hatefully, and we shouldn't be concerned with censorship when we have a valid, or sometimes serious point.

(once again, the difference between critiqing and insulting: INSULT - That video sucked! I hate them! nyah! CRITICISM - The video quality could use improvement, and the tickling was faked, or non existent.)

To illustrate what I'm talking about on the valid side, videos cost a lot of money, and many people can come here and decide from reviews if the video is worth the money. I have spent $40 on a video where there was NO laughter, or the model just looked bored. If we had to rely only on the advertiser's word, there would be a LOT of disappointed people out there. This may hurt people's feelings, but hey, this is capitalism, and people have a right to know if a video, or website, or comic book, or whatever, lacks quality.

On the serious side, there may crop up, and have already cropped up, outright scams, lies, or deceitful websites that steal money. Or, there may be websites with customer service so bad, someone must sound an alarm to unwary ticklephiles who may get shafted. I mentioned once about StacysPlace.com. I applied for a membership. My credit card was charged something like $15. I got a page of HTML script instead of a username and password. I couldn't reset the page, beacuse it was at the part that would just recharge and recharge if I kept hitting the reload button. I emailed the website for help. I got NOTHING. No answer. I was very polite, as always.
😎 I emialed again. No answer. I emailed again. No answer. I emailed the billing service. No answer. I had to cancel my subscription, which was worthless, and lost $15.

Sorry StacysPlace, but $15 isn't a drop in the bucket. I wouldn't sue over that small of an amount, but money is money. All I can do is warn everyone else to stay away from them. Someone else wrote in that they too had gotten jipped.

Now, if they had fixed the problem, I am real quick to forgive. If they offered today, I'd accept their offer and give them praise. But they never did.

One time I got a tape from RealTickling/Femfeet. It was blank. I emailed them and politely told them. They said "No problem, well send you another, shipping paid." ALRIGHT Femfeet! They gave me excellent customer service, as they always have, so they deserve praise. Yeah, I critique their videos as I do with other companies, but critism in my world has one purpose, to point out ways I think they may be able to improve, so that THEY can make more money and get better.

So, this forum can serve a purpose that may step on some toes, but hey, bad service is bad service. If someone gives good service, they deserve praise. If they give bad service, they deserve bad reviews. Maybe they don't know, and this forum can bring it to their attention.

I don't want censorship to get in the way of honesty. Many people on this forum REALLY don't like FootParadise, though teh reasons have been vague. I think they do great work. They may be jerks behind the scenes, but I have so far gotten good service and great videos from them.

So, you have three ways the forum is very useful, and doesn't have to become flame filled. Those pinheads that spew hatred would have over 3000 forum members to contend with anyway, but we shouldn't have to waste all our time responding to their threats and insults.

 

[babinsky]

HEY!! What happened to Tickle Palace?? I keep getting a
"can't find the page" notice....And where the hell's my video?

just kidding.Honest. Just jokin around, really, really.

 

[qjakal]

Censorship...

Lack of censorship is overrated...it's become a classic "dirty PC word" and has lost it's true meaning to the sentiment surrounding the feel good movement. Freedom of speech is a relative thing, always has been, always will be....the people who control the major "sources" have a big advantage, but that control is available to anyone who has the guts and is able to swing it financially. We all live with the fact that we don't have our own newspaper, TV station or radio station to play with (okay..almost all, I think we may have at least a DJ or 2 among us...lol). Q

 

[mabus]

avenues ARE open...

qjakal wrote:

Freedom of speech is a relative thing, always has been, always will be...

I'm not trying to be confrontational at all, but that's not a very good view to hold. I'm also afraid in our country today, it's becoming more and more prevalant. Freedom means freedom, plain and simple. It means we will have to put up with a lot of stuff that may annoy us, but that's the whole part of freedom. Some will agree with us, some will disagree, some won't care, and some will just mouth stupidity. Squashing any of that will be betraying the constitution.
Many people believe that if something offends them, it should be made illegal. They have no clue how the constitution works. "Yeah, we should have freedom of speech, just so long as everyone agrees with me."

The gray area is around the curse words, those 6 or 7 words which can't be said on tv and elicit an R rating at movies. But there are a LOT of people who want to also make ideas illegal, who want to not just disagree, but SILENCE opposition, or view points and ideas they don't like. So they label them "offensive."

This is from all sides, not just Democrat or Republican. Liberals want to shut up anyone who disagrees with their viewpoints by labeling them racist, homophobic, right winger, politically uncorrect, whatever. And they have taken, and succeeded in taking steps to make a lot of speech illegal in schools, and elsewhere. There are too many examples to mention. For one example, John Stossel did a piece on school kids believing EVERY scientist believed global warming was occuring, where in actuality, some scientists don't believe that global warming is occuring, and some don't believe man is causing it. The enviromentalists make a huge stink over it and demanded that he be fired, people were trying to sue, etc. All because he disagreed with them. They didn't just disagree, they wanted to actually silence him, which is wrong, and illegal under the constitution.

On the other hand, Jerry Farwell is always trying to get legislation passed that would outlaw obscene material. Uhh, what do you define as obscene? Pornography is obscene to some, others enjoy it. Who defines obscene? Evolution is obscene to fundamentalists. Will that teaching be outlawed? Yes, they're trying to outlaw it! Anything fetish related falls into that catergory, to these people as well...

I believe most communities have open channels, cable access channels, so that the citizens have a right to share their views. People can write letters to the editor, and if they are not filled with curse words, or libelous (the mayor committed murder or blew up Alaska..) most are printed. The internet is open to anyone who can figure out HTML, and nowadays, you don't even need to know that - this forum doesn't require it. So, people DO have a voice and the means to project it, if they so choose.

It all boils down to this: The people who want to ban obscenity and who want to censor would flatten this forum. They would get rid of it. They could care less about us, how we feel, that we are more civilized than most of the internet, that we are caring and nice people. They'd label us obscene, and that's that. I think people here should pay attention to the news, and make sure our voice is never taken away by the Religious Right, or any other group who wants everyone to believe only what they believe and agree with everything they say. And let me remind you, after saying all this, I'm a REPUBLICAN!

 

[hawkikim]

All I want to know is what's at Area 51 and who "Deepthroat" really is....😀

Area 51: It's that cute little nightclub where generals & aliens socialize, but that's not important right now..

Deepthroat: I've heard many rumors, but the one most credible to me is Diane Sawyer. Go ahead & laugh, but I heard it at this cute little nightclub I frequent...it's called Area 51.

Kimmie

 

[Oblesklk]

Re: avenues ARE open...

Freedom means freedom, plain and simple. It means we will have to put up with a lot of stuff that may annoy us, but that's the whole part of freedom.

I agree with most of what you've said here. But do keep in mind that what you're describing above, pertaining to this forum, is anarchy. That is what anarchy means, to have the freedom to do anything, without social consequence.

There is another forum on the internet that does hold anarchistic ideals: the newsgroup alt.multimedia.tk. Check it out and see which kind of atmosphere tends to be more productive. This may sound like a flame or that I'm picking on you, but I'm really not 🙂

The simple truth is there's no such thing as total freedom, even in this wonderful country, where we spout the phrase like it's some crazy buzzword. It is a hackneyed example, but go screaming fire into a crowded area, or proclaim proudly how and when you're going to assassinate one of our leaders, and we'll see just how far your freedom really goes.

As far as the forum goes, I'm very proud to be a member of the moderation staff. The staff has some very bright, insightful people working around the clock to keep this place civil and productive. When one of us has a bad day, the others are there to calm you down, and shed light on a perspective of an issue that one, perhaps clouded in his own emotion, missed.

Moderation is the key. There must be a balance to all things. This goes for life, politics (you've described the results of political imbalances well above), and even internet forums.

 

[qjakal]

Action...

Think you missed the point, Mabus..I'm saying if you don't like the "censorship" inherent in this setup, you're "free" to start your own, if you have the resources, both financially and mentally to do so. That's as free as it gets, and that's the way its been for a long time. You have the option of "action", and whether or not you exercise it is the epitome of freedom.... Q

 

[CitY of MicA]

the freedom to agree with everybody

I think it's important to not take for granted the job the moderators due in making this Forum 'livable.' I know I, for one, would not visit or contribute nearly so often if the atmosphere wasn't kept relatively civil. If they have to edit or censor certain threads, then so be it. They always provide an explanation when they do.

If I, in my unbridled support of 'management', find my post deleted (dramatic music begins to swell), well then, sir, we shall know the true meaning of living in a democracy 😉 .

 

[mabus]

In reference to Oblesklk, let me add, because you reminded me, "with great freedom comes great responsibility." The USA has a lot of freedom beacuse 1. the constitution grants us that, and 2. the people responsibly and morally use it. I'm not talking about sexual morality, as most right wingers define it. When I walk down a street, there isn't a gunman or tribal leader demanding a toll to pass, or he will shoot me. Afganistan had these, as do some "democratic" nations. The character of the people define how life will be in any country, city, enviroment. I believe this country is great because of the people who live here, not what the government does for us. I believe, and have said, that the greatness of this forum lies in the people who are members of it.

To qjakal, no, I don't have a problem with the current censorship, or want to leave and start my own forum. I'm afraid it MAY get out of hand. It hasn't yet, and the forum is very free. I've called flamers pinheads, and mean it. I have no problem silencing hate mongers on THIS forum. They should have a voice....somewhere else. I'm not going to deny them a voice, by all means, they have the freedom to curse and spew venom. They should all find a forum to do that, which they have in the newsgroups. I'm afraid it may get personel, and that would be bad. Once again, it hasn't got to that point yet, we have great moderators.

Let me describe what I'm talking about. Many religious righters, the catholic church, liberal groups don't want to censor in a unifying manner, say, like curse words. They do it on content, they do it on IDEAS. If they don't like you, you are censored. Say I'm a censor. Anything that comes past my desk with those mentioned 7 or 8 curse words, I will say "get them out of there, we can't have that." Okay, that's fine. BUT, if I'm a white bigot in the south, lets say, anything that shows black people in a good light, or in power "hey get that out of here, thats' offesnive." That's wrongful censorship. Or I'm a liberal, and something shows the conservative side of the argument, if I squash it, that's wrongful censorship. That is going on in the country today. Or if I'm a religious fundamentaist, and something comes by that disagrees with the teaching of the church, or laughs at them, or questions them, I try to silence it. That's constitutionally wrong. That, too, is going on in the country today. They will picket showings of "Dogma", or "The Last Temptation of Christ," yet do nothing about a movie like "Texas Chainsaw Massacre," or "Hannibal." Huh? That makes no sense.

Or like, there are many people here who have voiced opposition to FootParadise. I don't know why, I have no opinion, I just buy their videos, so I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with FootParadise, I simply don't know enough about the situation to have a judgement, I would hate to see them censor and delete their posts just because they don't like them. That's what I'm talking about. Or, we get some future moderator from FM concepts, and they decide to delete any posts that give unfavorable opinions about FM Concepts videos. That's the kind of censorship I was referring to in all my previous posts.