Cry not for Rhianna (if what I hear is true)

[Tickle Fiend]

I don't think anyones age has anything to do with this. There are victims of abuse of all ages. Some people might have a certain dependence on the person who abused them. I think we make it seem easier than it really is to leave someone who's abused you. Everyone thinks differently and we aren't the ones involved in their relationship. I'd imagine that it would be difficult leaving someone who you truly love.

 

[kis123]

It's funny you should bring this up. There at the very end, i stayed with my husband simply because the church i belonged to believed it would be an irreversible sin for me to divorce him. I was, at that time, trying to grasp anything that looked stronger than me for some advice on where i should go. I would show up to church with my eyes blackened and while the old church ladies would shake their heads and pray for me, their next words were always "Be strong and God will heal your marriage". Call me impatient, i gave up waiting for someone else to fix it for me, and i fixed it myself. That's where MY strength came from.
Some women are raised strong, some women are born strong... everyone else has to learn how to be strong. It being quite the struggle, those of the latter group have to first be given a reason to want to be strong, wheter it be through negative experiences or simply a desire to emulate someone strong. Being strong is a gift, it's also a responsibility. You better believe i'm teaching my squidlett how to be strong enough to never get wrapped into the quagmire i fell into.

Yeah I'm a church victim too so I know what you're talking about. My ex rarely went to church but he used them to control me and keep me in the marriage. I went to church regularly and they told me in counseling (where I went alone) that there was no excuse or reason to leave my husband. When I just couldn't get out of bed anymore or could find little reason to live other than for my kids I decided to leave. What did he do? Call the same church he criticized behind the scenes. What did they do? Tell me not to leave him. What did I do? Got the hell away from him before I committed suicide or homicide! That's just one of a multitude of reasons I will never participate in organized religion ever again!

And I've taught my daughter and son what is and isn't acceptable behavior in relationships. So far things are working well.

 

[kis123]

Miss Independant is a veneer. Always has been and always will be for Hollywood starlets who wish to espouse power to a group of women simply for cash purposes.

I don't want to take this thread off track but I'd be really interested in you expanding your POV in a PM if you could.

I know plenty of indepent women out here (myself included), but our definitions of independence might be different.

Just curious

 

[kis123]

So have I, kis. That's why I'm as adament about the points that I'm making.

You're not understanding me.

First of all this has nothing to do with parenting. That was used by me as an aside to speak to one of Slaver's quoted replies to my post.

What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter how strong you are or how strong you think you are. When a situation like that happens, it's hard to keep all your eggs in one basket.

For some women it's real easy to invest a lot emotionally into a relationship, so when something like that happens, it fucks with them and makes them hesitant to just show the guy the door.

And just because she doesn't do that as soon as some other 'stronger women' do, does not make her weak. It just makes her different.

My use of the word "her" within my whole post was used in a general sense. Not speaking to Rhianna's situation directly.

You brought up the parenting comment in the first place so I don't know where your latest comment about it is coming from. But I'm glad you realize that parenting has nothing to do with it.

No amount of emotional investing is worth it when the beat downs start. Once a man hits, he isn't going to stop hitting because of a woman's emotional investment. To be exact, he counts on it so she'll stay in the abusive relationship. He counts on her emotions to keep her controlled when it looks like he can't control. These abusers are no dummies; they know how to play the game. The woman can remain her own victim or she can leave.

Just how long should she stay attatched to someone who batters her before it's time to go? One beating? Ten beatings? A hospitalization or two? What if children are involved? What are the parents actually teaching their kids in an abusive home? How to make more abusers or more abuse victims IMO.

Since this thread surrounds Rhianna and Mr Brown, it's about as obvious as a billboard on 90E and W on the interstate that they both need serious help, not some kind of "stand by your man" reunion. They haven't been in some kind of long term marriage with children and they're both dependent on each other's income to survive. They're both very young and wealthy and haven't been dating that long--there isn't that much love in the world to stay under those circumstances. Move on before irreparable damage is done. Like I said before, your heart will heal but one beating too many could kill you.

 

[Marquis De Sade]

You brought up the parenting comment in the first place so I don't know where your latest comment about it is coming from. But I'm glad you realize that parenting has nothing to do with it.

No amount of emotional investing is worth it when the beat downs start. Once a man hits, he isn't going to stop hitting because of a woman's emotional investment. To be exact, he counts on it so she'll stay in the abusive relationship. He counts on her emotions to keep her controlled when it looks like he can't control. These abusers are no dummies; they know how to play the game. The woman can remain her own victim or she can leave.

Just how long should she stay attatched to someone who batters her before it's time to go? One beating? Ten beatings? A hospitalization or two? What if children are involved? What are the parents actually teaching their kids in an abusive home? How to make more abusers or more abuse victims IMO.

Since this thread surrounds Rhianna and Mr Brown, it's about as obvious as a billboard on 90E and W on the interstate that they both need serious help, not some kind of "stand by your man" reunion. They haven't been in some kind of long term marriage with children and they're both dependent on each other's income to survive. They're both very young and wealthy and haven't been dating that long--there isn't that much love in the world to stay under those circumstances. Move on before irreparable damage is done. Like I said before, your heart will heal but one beating too many could kill you.

Agreed on the they both need help part. Question is, will they seek it? Do they think they both need it?

 

[kis123]

Agreed on the they both need help part. Question is, will they seek it? Do they think they both need it?

Hope springs eternal........

If I were the judge, I'd demand it from the bench and dare both of them not to comply.

 

[Marquis De Sade]

At least he's been formerly charged with battery. Last I heard anyway.

 

[Adam]

To say I couldn't agree with you more would be an understatement! If I were her I'd get as far away from him as humanly possible. I still think he's an ass for beating the woman, but she's an even bigger one for staying. Ain't that much love in the world!!!

Hell as broke as I am I'd never stay with a man who beat me. Besides I'm way too old for jail; if he beat me, trust me he'd disappear from the planet!

Quoted for truth. I'm assuming most have seen the photos taken of Rhianna's face after the assault. That's the type of violence that has a tendency to escalate until somebody ends up six feet under. I am hoping the girl wises up and gets out while she still has a chance.

 

[SlaverTickler]

I found this. Not sure if it real or a photo shop from a fan. One thing is for sure, nobody's thinking she should stay with Chris Brown... except Chris Brown.

 

[SlaverTickler]

At least he's been formerly charged with battery. Last I heard anyway.

Yeah, but even if he is found guilty he won't go to "real" jail. He'll go to Rich Person Prison. In real jail the Nation and the Brother Hood would put personal matter aside to kill him, cause everybody loves Rihanna.

 

[BlackestLily]

Abuse is never okay, never justified, and not a means of communication.

In the case of Rhianna, I will cry for her. Would you stay for abuse? Would any person right in the head or of sound mind for the decision answer the question:

Would you like to stay perpetually in this relationship with this as a possibility of happening many times?

With:

Why yes. I just love the bruisings, bleeding, and emotional trauma. Sign me up!



You're bringing in about a million different points in all directions in this. First you say that she's not representing a feminism movement. On the next you say that women can get away with anything because they are sneaky and can play all kinds of different cards. On the next she must not be well and women must rise above it. I don't get it. How do you think they rose above all of this? One day sitting at the Abused Women's meeting and nodding their heads deciding that, yup, it's time to stop? It's an ongoing process. Still IS obviously. And you turn your back, citing, "She knows now, so it's her fault." Her fault what...that he hits her? How is that HER FAULT? It's an EXTREMELY poor decision to stay (if indeed that's what she's even DOING), but blaming the abuse on her for staying...? No. Just no.

Of COURSE it's a dumb thing to stay. But I doubt logic is playing into this right now.

 

[SlaverTickler]

You're bringing in about a million different points in all directions in this. First you say that she's not representing a feminism movement. On the next you say that women can get away with anything because they are sneaky and can play all kinds of different cards. On the next she must not be well and women must rise above it. I don't get it. How do you think they rose above all of this? One day sitting at the Abused Women's meeting and nodding their heads deciding that, yup, it's time to stop? It's an ongoing process. Still IS obviously. And you turn your back, citing, "She knows now, so it's her fault." Her fault what...that he hits her? How is that HER FAULT? It's an EXTREMELY poor decision to stay (if indeed that's what she's even DOING), but blaming the abuse on her for staying...? No. Just no.

You've taken some of what I have said out of context. When I said the things about women being cunning it was to rebut the comments by another member say that men are better at taking advantage of women's emotions. I totally disagree there are probably millions of examples (including one in Canada's federal government) where women have used charm and cunning to manipulate a guy for there own personal advancement. A young woman like Rihanna would probably gain a great deal of wisdom if she was to sit and listen to the stories of other women who have been abused. If you are abused by somebody, and you decide to stay with them, then it is you fault if they abuse you again. For anybody to claim other wise is for them to not take responsibility for your own actions (or perhaps inactions). I felt, and still feel bad for what has happen to this lady so far, but if it happens to her again then it's because she has knowingly put herself in that position.

If this was a situation where a woman was walking down the street, and was assaulted and then it happened 2 week later while she was walking down the same street. A person can't predict when or where a random event will happen, other wise it wouldn't be random. There are some area's in every city to avoid, but that doesn't excuse the attack. However she knows Chris Brown is an unstable person and has the option to go else where. She is not a kid being abused by her parent, she is not a young person being manipulated by an adult (like a pimp for example) this is a grown woman with the mean to leave and other places she could go. There is not reason for her to stay except a foolish belief that she can change a man who isn't even a real man.

ST

PS
< I LOVE THIS GUY!!!

 

[BlackestLily]

If you are abused by somebody, and you decide to stay with them, then it is you fault if they abuse you again. For anybody to claim other wise is for them to not take responsibility for your own actions (or perhaps inactions).

I find this ridiculous. This is spoken by a person who sounds like he hasn't experienced this situation. You are judging her situation based on little information. Instead of claiming, "It is her poor decision and his fault...." you are solely laying the blame on her. So if a woman walks into a store carrying her purse and is robbed, it was her fault because she shouldn't have been carrying the purse? If a woman is wearing a skirt and she is raped, it's her fault because she shouldn't have tempted the rapist?

I would like to see different reasoning, or better words. I was abused by my father, and there was no out for me. So I don't care if she does have an out, it is NOT. HER. FAULT. A poor decision that can lead to consquences, yes. Fault? No. Sorry.

 

[kis123]

Aaaaand again, I was never once implying that standing by your man is what needs to happen.

However, I was discussing what most likely WILL happen due to the mentality that she seems to be carrying right now.

Me, you and Jesus could say that's wrong and unhealthy and she needs help, that doesn't mean that it's gonna happen.





Kis, you seem to have the same issue I have with a lot of PMs. You're picking key words or phrases out of the bulk and not really reading the rest. That's what seems to be causing this repetition of misunderstanding upon your replies to my posts.

I'm not misunderstanding anything; you did say it. I'm not going to ask you to re-read your own posts but maybe you should. This is a hot topic for us both but I don't have a comprehension problem.

It makes no sense to me that we still have this nonsense in the 21st century. Prior to womens' rights, there was literally no hope. Women had nowhere to go and no means of making it without their husbands. It didn't stop my mother from leaving her first abusive husband with two kids and two suitcases in tow. But we're talking about now with homeless shelters, counseling, and many other options. There is no excuse to sit back and take abuse anymore. The woman is choosing to stay is going to end up with consequences she might not be able to live with. Rhianna is no exception to this; if she takes him back it'll be a matter of time before this ends up on the news again. He won't change if she takes him back, plain and simple.

I'll mention this again; the judge should force them both into counseling without no contact until counseling is complete. That's what happened when my ex-he was thrown out of the house for eight weeks. He ducked out of counseling when he buddied up with the prosecutor against me since I broke his arm in the "altercation", they threatened to prosecute me if I didn't drop charges. I had no lawyer or money; if I did I would've fought it.

I didn't have choices but still managed to walk away with my kids and little else. She has everything any woman can ever want and she feels that poorly about herself that she'd go back to this man? The global humiliation alone would've been enough for me. Don't even know how she could consider reconciliation.....not at all.

 

[kis123]

I find this ridiculous. This is spoken by a person who sounds like he hasn't experienced this situation. You are judging her situation based on little information. Instead of claiming, "It is her poor decision and his fault...." you are solely laying the blame on her. So if a woman walks into a store carrying her purse and is robbed, it was her fault because she shouldn't have been carrying the purse? If a woman is wearing a skirt and she is raped, it's her fault because she shouldn't have tempted the rapist?

I would like to see different reasoning, or better words. I was abused by my father, and there was no out for me. So I don't care if she does have an out, it is NOT. HER. FAULT. A poor decision that can lead to consquences, yes. Fault? No. Sorry.

Okay...let's do the "replace a word" thing and replace the word "fault" with the word "responsibility." She is responsible to herself to keep safe. She is responsible to get some self esteem and self worth. No self-respecting woman stays with a man who beats her. Again I say, there isn't that much love in the world.

She is a public figure and whether she likes it or not, a role model for young girls. There are little girls buying her CDs, dressing and wearing their hair like her, and singing her songs in the shower who are watching this mess play out. Mr Brown is in the same boat with an audience of millions of young girls and boys. What is this toasted hot mess telling young people? That it's okay to be violent and aggressive just as long as you say "I love you" afterwards?

We have enough of this nonsense in the black community as it is. We blame it on poverty and lack of education. Well, we're looking at two rich and (I guess) educated people air their mess publically. This is just plain wrong to me; sometimes public figures are all these kids have. It's pitiful, but true.

I'm not going to say it's her fault if she stays and gets hurt again. But I'm going to emphatically say that it'll be her responsibility for her decision making.

 

[SlaverTickler]

I find this ridiculous. This is spoken by a person who sounds like he hasn't experienced this situation. You are judging her situation based on little information. Instead of claiming, "It is her poor decision and his fault...." you are solely laying the blame on her. So if a woman walks into a store carrying her purse and is robbed, it was her fault because she shouldn't have been carrying the purse? If a woman is wearing a skirt and she is raped, it's her fault because she shouldn't have tempted the rapist?

I would like to see different reasoning, or better words. I was abused by my father, and there was no out for me. So I don't care if she does have an out, it is NOT. HER. FAULT. A poor decision that can lead to consquences, yes. Fault? No. Sorry.

I am sorry to read that you were mistreated by you father, but as I said a child can't really protect his or herself. Rihanna has a choice and she has chosen foolishly if she is in fact staying with Christ Brown. I shall phrase it another way then. It is his fault he is abusive, because he has said he knows his fathers abuse towards his mother was wrong, however if Rihanna stays it is her fault that he will have the chance to abuse her again.

 

[Mephistopheles]

He beats her because he loves her.

 

[Marquis De Sade]

He beats her because he loves her.

ROTFL.

 

[BlackestLily]

Okay...let's do the "replace a word" thing and replace the word "fault" with the word "responsibility." She is responsible to herself to keep safe. She is responsible to get some self esteem and self worth. No self-respecting woman stays with a man who beats her. Again I say, there isn't that much love in the world.

She is a public figure and whether she likes it or not, a role model for young girls. There are little girls buying her CDs, dressing and wearing their hair like her, and singing her songs in the shower who are watching this mess play out. Mr Brown is in the same boat with an audience of millions of young girls and boys. What is this toasted hot mess telling young people? That it's okay to be violent and aggressive just as long as you say "I love you" afterwards?

We have enough of this nonsense in the black community as it is. We blame it on poverty and lack of education. Well, we're looking at two rich and (I guess) educated people air their mess publically. This is just plain wrong to me; sometimes public figures are all these kids have. It's pitiful, but true.

I'm not going to say it's her fault if she stays and gets hurt again. But I'm going to emphatically say that it'll be her responsibility for her decision making.

I agree. Her life is her responsibility. The choices she makes will reflect the course her life will run for herself.

But regardless if she is a role model, that makes no mind or matter for all original intents of this post. And the raising of other people's children is not her problem. She can be that high-positioned jerk that disregards other people's feelings and how it will affect the whole of the world. But I'm sure in this emotional situation, HER situation, at this very moment, she doesn't give two shits about how little 10 year old Tammy feels about her going back to Chris Brown. How many times do we think beyond out immediate selves and those around us to the world as a whole when we experience private crisis?

 

[Oddjob0226]

However, once emotions and a hella lot of heart is involved, it's not so easy anymore .

True as true can be. It's like addicts who don't "just" quit.

As a man with no neck once said - "Emotion: Agitation or disturbance of mind; vehement or excited mental state. It is also a powerful and irrational master."

 

[kis123]

I've come to the conclusion that I woefully regret posting anything to this thread. I hope the mods delete everything I wrote!

I just should've let everyone do their thing and not challenged anyone about it. Let's let women keep making horrible decisions for themselves. Let's let public figures who are role models for kids (whether they like it or not) justify bad behavior. Let's just keep the old ball rolling and nothing change or get better when it comes to abuse. Let's keep making excuses for it instead of making people responsible for their decisions to stay in these abusive relationships. Hell, it's only their lives and the lives of their children on the line.....nothing important to deal with right??

Oh and for those of you who have backhandely accused me of thinking I'm better because I stopped making excuses and got out I have this to say:

If I could do it, anyone can!

I stopped making excuses and put the needs of my children first. Back then I didn't give a damn if I lived or died. The only reason I survived was because I didn't want my children going through another second of my life. I made bad choices-never should've married the asshole! I decided to allow him to emotionally and psychologically abuse me. I stayed in it long enough to let it turn physical.....it was my fault and responsibility, plain and simple! Anyone who's saying otherwise is at best not being realistic and at worst is being plain delusional. We are the sum or our choices and decisions...there is no room for excuses or justification of poor ones especially when it involves life and limb.

Can't keep turning heads and making excuses for poor decision making. This is a life or death matter when it comes to abuse. We just had a situation within a few blocks of my home where the husband shot and killed his wife, sister and law, and three children before turning the gun on himself. Six people dead folks and we're talking about Rhianna? She has all the resources at her feet and chooses to go back to the man who beat the living daylights out of her? No, I have absolutely no excuse for her at all; she knows better and should grow a spine and let this young man know his behavior is inappropriate. It's not that much love in the world people and I stand by my opinions 1000%.

But it looks like I stand alone......so be it!

At this point, I am unsubscribing from this thread so if you don't like what I said my PM box is wide open but I won't be publically responding to this anymore.

 

[TklDuo-Drew]

Wait a minute..........who are these people and why do we care about them??



Drew

 

[BlackestLily]

Kis, I don't feel you're incorrect in your thinking. You're right. Girls should know better. They should know their worth and know that they deserve far more than this. They should have the common sense to see the blaring red lights and sirens going, "Hey, something isn't right here!" They shouldn't assist men in perpetuating cycles of abuse, because of course it's never an isolated incident when reaching that magnitude, whether it be physical, mental, or otherwise. I understand you've experienced life long enough to know the lack of resources for women back before compared to the incredible support groups women have now, and I can definitely appreciate that.

My addressing of this has been heavily on the original poster, as people who haven't experienced said situations tend to be far more critical in their thinking and often say things like, "Well they should do this...", without realizing how difficult that decision may be for the person who is actually involved, then dismissing the difficulty as the easiest decision ever.

Saeria, Jo, and you have said that it was difficult. Love, outside influences like family, the church, and everyone in the world who feels like they have a stake in your life and believe they know what is best for you are going to give you a piece of their mind, whether you wanted that piece or not.

So in that, I acknowledge she shouldn't stay, but I also have an active imagination. And so I wonder, if she's staying, what is her reasoning? She may love him. She may feel guilty...in the report she was also aggressive to him. She may be blaming herself because she thinks she partially allowed to get it to the point it was and that it wouldn't have happened otherwise. I imagine his family telling her, "He's the sweetest guy ever. We've NEVER known him to do this. You see his dog died today and...". People in her life may be willing to break down what she knows to be true, and suddenly her truth seems hazy and cloudy. I don't think it's right or should happen, but it's probably a strong possibility.

I hope you don't stop posting here. I always enjoy reading your point of view. I don't mean to dismiss yours as if it doesn't have merit, so I do apologize if this is how I've been coming off. But I would like it if you continued here with your thoughts, because in this case you have even experienced it yourself.

 

[Oddjob0226]

Wait a minute..........who are these people and why do we care about them??

Although this probably makes the most sense of all!

Thank you for being my umbrella, ella, ella, ella, ooh, ella, ella, ella, Drew.