Do men have a point anymore?

[Celtic_Emperor]

I'm conservative in what way? I want to make sure you're not misunderstanding me or I'm not misunderstanding you.

EDIT: Good post by the way.

 

[sirjasper2002]

Why are we here? My answer: who cares?

If I may get philosophical for a moment: As a materialist who believes we are merely accidents of nature, I don't buy the notion that men (or for that matter women) have any purpose. Further, I don't really think we need one. I have seen too many people waste major portions of their lives tearing their hair out over the Big Question, and for what? Your purpose is what you make it. The bottom line is this: we're all here because we're all here. And it's only a temporary visit, so let's try to have a little fun and be good to one another. 😎

 

[Janus4385]

Ok, I read the whole thread and I hope I didn't get too lost from the original question... so, dudesonfire, your concern was basically about being less usefull than you should be because society can't place you on a specific role, right?(well, that's what I got from your first post anyway)

I understand up to a certain point why you are concerned, it sucks not knowing if you are needed anymore, but what you really need to be asking yourself is: what can society ask from you? What if it actually gave you a specific role to follow? Would you be happy about it?

And also, you may be able to conceive children in a lab, but where's the fun in that?

oh, and, Vlad, I wouldn't blame Darth for what he said, you do sound a little conservative... (I hope that doesn't offend you)


PS: Well said Alchemy, you might be the wisest of us all, Rock On!!!

 

[Dude'sonfire]

lol, so many replies... All very interesting stuff; lol i actually learned about a lot of random facts and viewpoints from this. When it comes to me *personally* however, I am proud of who I am, and I don't feel useless. I never once said I thought women actually *wanted* to get rid of us, I didn't even once say that i thought men's extiction was even going to happen. I only felt a little down because i like to be in touch with what i am mentally and physically, and I occasionally get annoyed because the modern world has lost a lot of value for the biological insticts/tendencies of men, to what often seems a high degree.
But again, thanks for all your input everyone, interesting stuff.

 

[Darth Vegeta]

Indeed. Besides... who says we'll still be around by than?
I once read about a male scientist who said it would be a marvelous society by than. Only women with artificially created other women. Without men it would be a perfect warfree society. I am very sceptical about 'that' interpretation.

Also Y chromosome might be degenerating but there is a solution for everything if one looks hard enough. Plus... what might be the effect on women themselves when there are no men around anymore?

 

[tyklfynd]

according to genetics, men will be gone from the earth in like 900 generations, stupid me i forget which chromosome we are but every generation the chromosome gets shorter and some scientists state that eventually it may dissipate into oblivion

yah, i read that book too. supposedly the y chromosome is degenerating. but his logic has a whole in it. Mammels, and the y chromosome, have been around for 300 million years, its a bit too strange that our y chromosome is disappearing in the next 900 generations, or about 18,000 years. and will all the other mammel males go extinct too? the book is Adam's curse, btw.

-tyklfynd

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/soletickling

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

oh, and, Vlad, I wouldn't blame Darth for what he said, you do sound a little conservative... (I hope that doesn't offend you)

I'm not blaming anyone for anything they said and what you said hasn't offended me either. I just want to see where the word "conservative" comes in as a discriptive term and in what contexts its being implied. You could be completely off or are mistaking what I'm saying for something a conservative person would believe. I think if you're going to use a discriptive word like that so ambiguously you should explain it or validate it in some way so that I can either concede or explain better.

 

[Darth Vegeta]

lol I meant that was a very 'conservative' statement. I badly expressed myself. As for conservative... for me it means 'moralistic, family orientated, honorable, true to ones worth, rightwinged, for old values,...'

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Ok, good. See, I'm glad you explained yourself, Lord Vegeta. By YOUR meaning of conservative, yes I am I suppose.

As far as being right-winged, I actually don't follow alot of politics and don't like getting put into that sort of thing unless its my will to do so. I'm a registered democrat but I'm neutral. I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with my party and siding with republican points of view sometimes. But those are just points of view from a governmental point of view. As I said earlier, these things aren't what make a person wholesome or validated as a human being, male or female.

They don't represent me as a person, me as an entity, me as a mind and me as a soul and they shouldn't do that for you or anyone else either.

People who heavily believe in governmental law often use it to validate themselves or rely heavily on it for identity, which is dangerous since its always changing and is often very one-sided.

I'm grateful to be in the state of being I am. I guess whats ironic about being called conservative is that I am liberal too. I just come off as conservative because I have wholesome values which don't change based on worldly circumstances. Even if human law was to change drastically (IE- this topic and the levels it has touched upon) I would still think this way, because human law only controls the human circumstance.

True character and persona comes from the soul, not the world.Thats a true blessing.

 

[Darth Vegeta]

Well I follow American politics. Really follow unlike the stereotypical view we get shown over here in Belgium. Over there... the difference in a way between the two is less big than you American seem to think at times. Democrats are quite moralistic and conservative in a lot of ways too. Over here the differences are big. And conservative is really locked into one or 2 parties. And the others are extremely progressive and anti-conservative.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Being "locked into a party" is what the problem is, you see.

Life is not about government. It provides a way of life, yes, but its up to you to make your life more.

I don't leave my life in the hands of the government. I leave it in the hands of my Lord and God and my own will and drive to exist and that is what makes me able to brave the storms and political strife this country deals with on a daily basis. Nothing is black and white here and its easy to get sucked in to the madness.

I am a spectator of governmental law, but not a perpetuator of it. What happens happens, and if I have a stand on an issue for or against it I have a stand on an issue. But its just that, an issue, one of many thats neverending. I can't control what happens and I shouldn't want to. My life is not about how others lead theirs or how the government allows them to lead theirs.

I'm self-actualized, I know my place as a single entity, and I know my place as one portion of the single human family and the duty I have to look out for my fellow brothers and sisters when I can. I can only believe what I believe, I can't believe for other people. If it were as simple as that, the government would be absolute.

It is not, and it does not make me stronger like God, the Light, and Divinity does. So I have as little to do with it as I can, but happily participate if it concerns my way of life in the purely physical sense. The government does not give me purpose or poise, and so I seperate it from me, myself and I.

 

[Duke Diablo]

Do men have a point? Hell, we do! We walk around with one big point in our pants!

 

[Hungarian21]

No men? God, my sister would love that...😛

But anyway, men live because they need to. Here's an example for ya:
Lets say that today we would have the limit of 100 men, and 5 billion women. (lucky guys😛). What if these "breeders" give the sperms for a boy. Would that boy be executed the moment he was born?

So anyway, maybe you should just forget that one. The point is, why on earth would men exist if they didn't need to? Dude's sonfire mentioned that a tribe would 'possibly' survive if it had 20 women, and 1 man. Not true. Seeing that women are as picky as men are, that guy would have to look like Johnny Depp or some other rich hot teen wonder to get most of the chicks. And if he isn't? He should be lucky to find 1 girl that likes him. And then we have to see if he likes her.

So, as a conclusion, its better to have many fish in the sea of both sexes. (3 billion man, 3 billion women. You oughta find a good couple that would match you.)

 

[wendyandpeter]

Silly hippie nonsense ...

Dude,

Look at it this way. Men will ALWAYS have a role as long as there are women. And it will be substantially the same role, whether or not our culture sees "male-ness" as in or out of fashion.

No doubt, the young liberals among us are having a revolutionary good time these days bashing everything that's male-oriented -- the "feminizing of America," some have called it.

That is, until it's time to have children. Then, traditional roles come right back into play -- men are necessary as resource-providers, just as we always have been. Now, interestingly, the male geek has become the new hot thing. That's because the sterotypical male geek possesses all of the provider qualities with none of the annoying masculinity attached.

The hippy-dippy among us really believe that "soft" men - with all of the requisite pacifism and female sensitivity (and sometimes female looks to finish the project) are the promise of the future. And maybe that would be a good thing if all cultures were doing the same thing. However, clearly all cultures are not doing the same thing. So I suspect that those who think it would be grand if all American males were quiet little providers who assumed the sterotypical female perspective on everything will be sorry for what they wished when we're all speaking Farsi and they aren't allowed to leave the house without the partiarch's permission.

Anyway,

Peter

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

That is, until it's time to have children. Then, traditional roles come right back into play -- men are necessary as resource-providers, just as we always have been. Now, interestingly, the male geek has become the new hot thing. That's because the sterotypical male geek possesses all of the provider qualities with none of the annoying masculinity attached.

I'm glad you bring this up because I brought it up earlier. It focuses less on being what society thinks you should be, but willing to do the right thing which is only natural by human nature caring for the family you've helped produce. Thats true living as a person in an intimate setting which has reached the next stage of the conventional relationship.

I think alot of people, both men and women don't appriciate the other because they lack love, respect and understanding for the other.

I actually think a family is what it takes for both men and women to fully appriciate eachother to the fullest extent possible far beyond the physical only, because it forces them to realize that they need eachother to make this work, and they need eachother's parental and natural gifts and that they need to use them in tandem to achieve true stability.

Putting a child into the equation redefines and accentuates the male/female relationship in a deep and profound way and so many people take these ideals and chances to experience the other gender for granted.

So many people are pro-family and have family values because it clearly gives them more of a definition as an adult, as a man or woman, while still allowing them to be who they want to be and do what they want to do.

The closer the two sexes are to eachother the more and more they discover their own sex/gender and eventually realize that men cannot be without women and women cannot be without men. Its a bond. And while we can do without the other, we're fundamentally not complete without them. We weren't meant or designed to be apart, we were meant to be together and to govern the world together.

 

[Janus4385]

I'm not blaming anyone for anything they said and what you said hasn't offended me either. I just want to see where the word "conservative" comes in as a discriptive term and in what contexts its being implied. You could be completely off or are mistaking what I'm saying for something a conservative person would believe. I think if you're going to use a discriptive word like that so ambiguously you should explain it or validate it in some way so that I can either concede or explain better.

Ok Vlad, I think I know what the misunderstanding was, you see, I'm not from the US, so I'm not quite familiar with the whole Democrat Conservative thing, I mean, I know what it is, but since I am not a part of it it wasn't the first thing to come to mind when I said I took you for a conservative, as Darth said, it is about your will to preserve values and your sense of family importance that seem conservative about you... Also, since I'm not from the US or any other english speaking country, I'm not accuainted with the term self-actualized, and you use it quite often, so, could you please tell me what it means??? I'd really appreciate it 🙂 , it's always nice to expand your vocabulary 😀

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Ok Vlad, I think I know what the misunderstanding was, you see, I'm not from the US, so I'm not quite familiar with the whole Democrat Conservative thing, I mean, I know what it is, but since I am not a part of it it wasn't the first thing to come to mind when I said I took you for a conservative, as Darth said, it is about your will to preserve values and your sense of family importance that seem conservative about you... Also, since I'm not from the US or any other english speaking country, I'm not accuainted with the term self-actualized, and you use it quite often, so, could you please tell me what it means??? I'd really appreciate it 🙂 , it's always nice to expand your vocabulary 😀

No problem, don't worry about it. 🙂

The term self-actualized has varying meanings. Teachers will sometimes use it to refer to their students who are failing, falling behind in their studies, etc. Thats because the student is unaware of their own shortcomings, strengths, etc.

But in a general usage, self-actualized means basically that you have an understanding of yourself. You know yourself and you understand yourself, presently anyway.

Its not necessarily saying you've come to terms with yourself or accepted yourself, but it does mean that you've identified yourself, your status and whats going on.

It seems pretty redundant, but if you know yourself you can help yourself. People in worse situations are worse off because they're wandering, essentially.

 

[Janus4385]

Thanks man, you are really efficient you know...

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I get that alot. LOL

 

[Lucifer1]

No men DONT have a point anymore. With more and more laws being passed to protect women from even a simple compliment this country is a feminine laughing stock. My favorite is every little thing that doesnt go a womans way she claims is "Sexual Harrassment". Didnt get that promotion at work? Relax! Its sexual harrassment now get yourself a lawyer. Another great one is stalking. What is stalking anyway? I mean a knew a guy who called his ex-girlfriend twice just to check out how shes doing and to remove him from her life she filed a stalking claim...and it stuck!!! Women are the rulers of this country like it or not. It started with Nancy Regan I think (suppresses a shudder). No wonder Saddam Hussein thinks he won the first Persian Gulf War!!

 

[Ignatz]

No men DONT have a point anymore. With more and more laws being passed to protect women from even a simple compliment this country is a feminine laughing stock. My favorite is every little thing that doesnt go a womans way she claims is "Sexual Harrassment". Didnt get that promotion at work? Relax! Its sexual harrassment now get yourself a lawyer. Another great one is stalking. What is stalking anyway? I mean a knew a guy who called his ex-girlfriend twice just to check out how shes doing and to remove him from her life she filed a stalking claim...and it stuck!!! Women are the rulers of this country like it or not. It started with Nancy Regan I think (suppresses a shudder). No wonder Saddam Hussein thinks he won the first Persian Gulf War!!

Well, I'm no fan of Nancy Reagan; we conservatives tend to scorn any Reagan other than the Gipper himself. But I'm not sure how you can blame this particular blight on her. And the first Gulf War was fought by Bush the Elder, not Ronnie.
That stipulated, you're right about the cultural and political climate in this country. Feminism and the Sexual Revolution crushed old-fashioned chivalry into the dust, laughing it to scorn for the most part. Then women found life intolerable without it and began trying, with the laws and policies against harassment, to restore chivalry's protections without any of its gallantry and poetry. It's as if they've dragged the broken and blood-soaked corpse of Sir Galahad from the tomb and covered themselves with it. Mix this with the modern cult of victimhood in which everyone is looking to blame and sue someone for their wretchedness and you have the toxic cocktail that is the 21st Century. You can have my share.

 

[Lucifer1]

Well Ignatz im not so sure about the political aspect of it cuz I dont follow politics so you got me there. However what you said about "dragging Sir Gallahad out of his tomb and covering his blood" is pretty much what I was trying to say, you just put it a lot more eloquently. Whatever it comes down to I am very against physically or emotionally hurting a woman but they simply just have to much power in terms of the law these days. A cop will throw you in jail if you mail her a poem...im not exagerrating it happened to someone I know. Granted it was only for a few hours but still....ridiculous!

 

[chickles_:)]

Hiya! :sad: :sad:

How awful! I had hoped to talk up the value of men in my "top ten alternate uses for guys" thread -but that didn't exactly work 🙄
So let me try again here.

Guys are GREAT!!
Great to share burdens with, Great to celebrate the fun things in life with, Great to just plain LOOK at!! 🙂

As i read a smattering of replies from the guys on the forum i kind of sense that you sort of think that to have value as a man in society a guy needs an exclusively male occupation. "Men" hunt, "Men" fight, "Men" vote, "Men" are priests, and CEOs and play hockey etc. and by extension "Women" don't.

But that's the problem. In many of those so called less high-tech societies women and men often did, and do, a lot of each. Men care for young, women fight, Men listen to the rhythms of the earth, women hunt.

Maybe the value is not to search for one's identity on the exclusive aspects of one's gender but on how each of us can apply the God-given gifts we each have to make society better. Let's face it, maybe we can have kids on our own without men around or involved. But, speaking personally, I know very few women who would prefer that arrangement. Men matter. Having a guy who can provide a different way of approaching things, a shoulder to cry on, a partner to pick up the kids after work and take them to swimming practice, a friend to share the load of creating a home together, someone to turn your heart on fire just by looking at you, to say nothing of bringing your body alive in such wonderful ways makes life so much richer!

Oh man -pun intended 😛- a world without guys would totally suck!! I for one, am all too happy to accept hours of collision sports when there's work to be done, piles of dirty laundry, messy manners, and inappropriate comments at parties if it means i get to share this world with God's wonderfully male co-creations. (Okay, so maybe i'm getting way too carried away with that, :redface: but you get the idea. :laughing: )
To me that's what equality means - we're all free from gender stereotypes enough to each chart our own course and contribute to others as individuals the way God richly intended.

Sorry for the rant. But maybe it helps a little. 🙂

Please guys, don't ever leave us alone. After all, heaven forbid we'd have to blame ourselves for how messed up the world is,,, *laughs*

many blessings,

 

[Dude'sonfire]

Sorry for the rant. But maybe it helps a little. 🙂

Please guys, don't ever leave us alone. After all, heaven forbid we'd have to blame ourselves for how messed up the world is,,, *laughs*

many blessings

lol Can i download you and stick you on my i pod? Just for when i'm out and need cheering up. :happy: 😛

 

[Lucifer1]

Chickles ill always be there for you to have a "shoulder to cry on!" And your other thread about uses for men has nothing to do with this so dont feel bad. :happy: