Early Experiences Thread

[reflexology414]

Has the early experiences thread vanished? I haven't seen it for a while.

 

[TMF Jeff]

That thread was just too hard to moderate. There was a lot of content there that was about minors and it was a nearly impossible task to seperate that out, so we decided in the end that it was better, or at least more realistic, to remove it entirely.

 

[chickles_:)]

Hiya
Wow! I guess i never thought about that.

I mean of course no one wants to foster anything criminal concerning minors. Yet in a way the whole thing seems kind of weird. I mean, how do we tell about our lives before we turned 18? Surely there has to be a way to say "when i was thirteen such and so happened to me," isn't there? 😕

MTP Jeff, I'm genuinely interested. I certainly don't want to do anything wrong. what's the answer? Does anyone have any insight?

Thanks for your help.

Many blessings,
Chickles_🙂

 

[SillyMan]

It seems so strange to me, because most of us actually had our first tickling experiences before we turned 18. And it was not sexual at that time, at least not when we were pure kids.

 

[reflexology414]

another question for Jeff

Jeff,

I asked, in part, because I was hoping to retrieve some of my old posts. Do they still exist somehwere, or was everything in the early expereinces thread summarily deleted?

Any information appreciated.

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

Hiya
Wow! I guess i never thought about that.

I mean of course no one wants to foster anything criminal concerning minors. Yet in a way the whole thing seems kind of weird. I mean, how do we tell about our lives before we turned 18? Surely there has to be a way to say "when i was thirteen such and so happened to me," isn't there? 😕

MTP Jeff, I'm genuinely interested. I certainly don't want to do anything wrong. what's the answer? Does anyone have any insight?

Thanks for your help.

Many blessings,
Chickles_🙂

Chickles... The issue is to not do it on an adult web site. Once you call it an adult site, there are definite legal issues that need to be avoided...one of them being any mention of minors. There are some yahoo groups and at least one forum that are geared towards the more playful and non-sexual aspects of tickling. That would be one place to be able to share early experiences without too much concern.

The authorities aren't the only ones watching for this. There are people out there (including one former member of this community) who have made no effort to hide the fact that they are going around LOOKING for any underage mentions on adult TK sites in order to get them shut down. (One of them actually wrote me to brag of his efforts at a time when he thought I might be tempted to go along with him.) They have succeeded in getting folks shut down in a few cases and come close in others.

While I'm all for canning any site that exploits kids, this has nothing to do with that and is an outright attack on the community. Anyone with a site is a potential target. Communities like this one, which this guy feels wronged by, are much more of a target because he wants to avenge himself on us.

The response in any case is the same...no minor content, no matter how innocent it may be, can be permitted without risk...whether this guy was around or not.

Ann

 

[Midnight2_2222]

Warning: Long Rant Ahead

The authorities aren't the only ones watching for this. There are people out there (including one former member of this community) who have made no effort to hide the fact that they are going around LOOKING for any underage mentions on adult TK sites in order to get them shut down. (One of them actually wrote me to brag of his efforts at a time when he thought I might be tempted to go along with him.) They have succeeded in getting folks shut down in a few cases and come close in others.Ann

You're dead right about that. When I was writing my Buffy series I had to make it obvious that Dawn wasn't included. The reason was because I knew it only takes one person with a puritan issue to scream. If you read any Buffy newsgroups you see where people are terrified to write stories before season four (when they were in High School) for fear of the puritan machine coming after them. And when I say stories I mean non-sexual fan-fiction, the fact that these characters were (gasp!) involved in relationships that involved (gasp!) being in love is terrifying people.

You may recall a few years ago the Congress tried to pass legislation making it a major federal crime to depict minors in what could be deemed sexual situations. Note the wording and then read on.

Traditionally, it's only illegal to own media that involves actual living minors (state laws vary). You see, the point of anti-minor-sex laws is to protect the children. Society has deemed, in most states, that you are too stupid to engage in a relationship until you are 18.

Now, with computer technology, lawmakers are fearful of computer geeks creating computer animated kiddy porn. While such things would not be rooted in any actual harm to a child lawmakers still feel anything depicting child pornography should be treated as a sex crime (one of the worst things you can be tried for in this society). No, I don’t support kiddy porn. Read on and understand what truly worries me.

Anyway, the first version of the bill got shot down because it went too far. Books like "Lolita" and "Romeo and Juliet" would have been banned under the first law because it depicted young adults (gasp!) engaged in sexual activity. Television shows like “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” and anything else that acknowledges young people in relationships would be banned. To get around these concerns, the new law they’re considering is more restrictive and goes after electronic format.

The point is, if this damn thing gets passed writing a story and posting it about a minor engaged in sexual activity will become a federal crime. I thought this pesky thing called the Constitution allowed public discourse on society, including age-laws, but I guess we're going to toss that part out. Jeff is right to screen that thread out because even if it's legal now it will be highly illegal very soon.

Don't get me wrong, I am conservative in most of my politics. But like most TRUE conservatives I'm also a strict Constitutionalist, meaning you never do anything to censor public discourse unless there is a real threat of harm (fighting words, etc). Unless a child is physically being put in harm's way I cannot understand where the puritans think they're getting the power to stop a discussion about people's first tickling experiences. Or even a person’s first sexual experience. Where does it end?

I mean, if an experience happened when you were a kid then that's when it happened. I guess we should all close our eyes and pretend that nothing that shaped our sexual-lives evolved until the day after we became 18. I even read a piece a few months ago about some wacko group who thinks the federal government should force the states to raise the age of consent to 25! Where does this madness stop?!

I'm done ranting now. This subject gets me fired up every time I think about it. Please understand what I’m saying here. I DO NOT support children being taken advantage of. But shutting down all discussion on electronic media of anything involving minors is just ridiculous. And that includes discussing your first tickling experience.

Midnight

 

[TMF Jeff]

Hiya
Wow! I guess i never thought about that.

I mean of course no one wants to foster anything criminal concerning minors. Yet in a way the whole thing seems kind of weird. I mean, how do we tell about our lives before we turned 18? Surely there has to be a way to say "when i was thirteen such and so happened to me," isn't there? 😕

MTP Jeff, I'm genuinely interested. I certainly don't want to do anything wrong. what's the answer? Does anyone have any insight?

Thanks for your help.

Many blessings,
Chickles_🙂

It's a pretty fine line. I think if someone happened to say in some context, "When I was thirteen, this happened to me," it would probably be considered a fair post.

It's more of an issue when someone says "When I was 13 I did this to another 13 year old." Those are really the posts that seem to walk too fine a line for us. Even though an argument can be made that it's non-sexual and only involves two minors, the forum as a whole is a sexual place and people read it, for the most part, for sexual reasons. I don't really think we'd be breaking any laws as such by allowing that to take place, but I do think there are valid moral concerns.

And ultimately we have limited resources available for making those kinds of judgement calls and we tend to err on the side of caution rather than hold an impromptu roundtable discussion every time a questionable call comes along 🙂

 

[TMF Jeff]

Re: another question for Jeff

Jeff,

I asked, in part, because I was hoping to retrieve some of my old posts. Do they still exist somehwere, or was everything in the early expereinces thread summarily deleted?

Any information appreciated.

I'm not really sure about that, let me look into it and I'll see what I can come up with.

 

[Mimi]

Re: another question for Jeff

Jeff,

I asked, in part, because I was hoping to retrieve some of my old posts. Do they still exist somehwere, or was everything in the early expereinces thread summarily deleted?

Any information appreciated.

Reflexology, check your PM's. I've sent you one regarding this subject.

Mimi

 

[Iggy pop]

This just blows my mind sometimes. In the stories section, there are stories that contain kidnapping, false imprisonment, and other felonies. That's fine because its just fantasy. If have story between two consensual people under the age of eighteen then it's child porn. Does anyone else find this absurd?

 

[chickles_:)]

Hiya
Wow, it just seems so strange.
Still, thanks to all of you, MTP Jeff, Midnight and Tickle Duo-Ann, for explaining this unexpected minefield. It helps explain what's going on at least.

It still bugs me to think we live in a different world. Sorry, i know that makes me naive but I really don't care. It just really bugs me, you know?
I'm with you, Iggy Pop, on the inconsistency in gov't controls. It gets reflected in all media.
Like i said, i have absolutely no sympathy for an industry or persons who deliberately exploit or hurt children. But - *sigh* you know what i'm saying. I won't belabour it.

Please understand, I'm not in any way speaking against this Forum or the people on it in saying this. I understand that everyone here is just trying to honour the law and keep out of unnecessary trouble. But that said, I just feel violated when societal powers-that-be forbid me from talking about parts of my life story because somehow they're considered wicked or criminal to share.

I mean how do we even share the stories that need to be told? Like suffering child abuse. Sometimes it only comes out in public special-interest forums like these where people reflect on their lives with others whom they trust.
Does that make sense?

Anyway, sorry to bend your ear you guys. But i just wanted to share my feelings.

Many blessings,
Chickles_🙂

 

[TMF Jeff]

I think chickles makes a perfectly valid point. As I said above, I think if someone made a post that was about themselves as a youth that involved no story-like content, it would probably be allowed to stand.

The issue comes into play when it's not so much "When I was a kid, I really was into tickling and felt like a complete outsider" as much as it's "When I was 13, my babysitter came over and tickled me. Let me tell you about that in detail..."

And that is all, or virtually all, of the minor-related content that we get here and remove here. Stories about children and posts about child celebrities. And we're not saying that that's wrong, just that this isn't the place for it.

I think the idea chickles raised of "stories that need to be told" is a reasonable one, but you have to put that into the context of the site as a whole. Would you tell the story of child abuse on a site whose primary purpose was to host stories about sex between adults, knowing that those were the people who were going to read your tale?

Most, if not all, of the people who read stories here are reading them for sexual gratification, and we've made a decision to not be a place where there is the possibility of sexual gratification involving minors. Having made that decision, every time someone mentions a minor one of us (and there are only 9 of us) has to decide what to do about it. What I tried to explain before and may not have gotten across very well is that there are not many of us, and we all have lives to live and other things occupying our time and attention. Most often when we have the decision to make, we make it quickly, erring on the side of caution.

The reasoning is this: What's the POSSIBLE harm of removing something? Virtually none. What's the POSSIBLE harm of leaving something in? Almost certainly some, however minimal. So all other things being equal, we're likely to remove it because there's just no downside.

So if there's something in your past that you have to talk about here, talk about it but keep it clinical.

And if you want to tell the story of when you were 13 and tickled a 14 year old neighbor, it's going to have to be somewhere else. Not because it's child porn, not because it's wrong, but just because we've made a judgement call and we don't have the time, resources, or desire to make minute questions of degree the focus of our time here.

 

[Iggy pop]

And that is all, or virtually all, of the minor-related content that we get here and remove here. Stories about children and posts about child celebrities. And we're not saying that that's wrong, just that this isn't the place for it.

I think the idea chickles raised of "stories that need to be told" is a reasonable one, but you have to put that into the context of the site as a whole. Would you tell the story of child abuse on a site whose primary purpose was to host stories about sex between adults, knowing that those were the people who were going to read your tale?

Most, if not all, of the people who read stories here are reading them for sexual gratification, and we've made a decision to not be a place where there is the possibility of sexual gratification involving minors.

I can understand this, but you also have stories here involving kidnapping and torture, and I'm sure you don't want to promote kidnapping.

 

[TMF Jeff]

I can understand this, but you also have stories here involving kidnapping and torture, and I'm sure you don't want to promote kidnapping.

Wow, you've really tangled me up in your logic-trap 🙂

I'm fine with you not seeing a difference between a story involving kidnapping and a story involving minors, and I guess you're just going to have to accept the fact that we do distinguish between them.

 

[Abellytickler1980]

If it is possible, I too would like all my old posts back.

 

[drew70]

My opinion is that Jeff is right in not permitting such stories here, for the reasons he stated. Taking a step back and looking at the big picture, we as a ticking community may have shot ourselves in our collective foot by adopting a collecitve identity as "sexual fetishists." If we came together as tickling enthusiests outside of any sexual context, we could tell our stories freely and easily.

I have to wonder what we as a community are gaining by wearing this sexual identity. I read the stories, and with few exceptions there's very little sex involved in them. I watch the videos, most of which involve no sexual contact, only some nudity which at least for me adds very little if anything, and could be easily rectified. I go to gatherings, and get tickled by women without any nudity or touching of private areas, sometimes in full view of their husbands cheering them on.

My point is that while some of us are excited sexually by tickling, does it mean we have to air it in front of the world? We don't really talk or deal a lot with sex, but yet we continually short-sheet ourselves by this "adult material" astigma. Use your imagination for a moment and speculate on how it would be if we took out all the nudity and sexual references, and became a G-rated tickling community, and let those who get turned by it do so in private? Hey, sexual excitement in privacy...what a concept!

 

[Abellytickler1980]

My opinion is that Jeff is right in not permitting such stories here, for the reasons he stated. Taking a step back and looking at the big picture, we as a ticking community may have shot ourselves in our collective foot by adopting a collecitve identity as "sexual fetishists." If we came together as tickling enthusiests outside of any sexual context, we could tell our stories freely and easily.

I have to wonder what we as a community are gaining by wearing this sexual identity. I read the stories, and with few exceptions there's very little sex involved in them. I watch the videos, most of which involve no sexual contact, only some nudity which at least for me adds very little if anything, and could be easily rectified. I go to gatherings, and get tickled by women without any nudity or touching of private areas, sometimes in full view of their husbands cheering them on.

My point is that while some of us are excited sexually by tickling, does it mean we have to air it in front of the world? We don't really talk or deal a lot with sex, but yet we continually short-sheet ourselves by this "adult material" astigma. Use your imagination for a moment and speculate on how it would be if we took out all the nudity and sexual references, and became a G-rated tickling community, and let those who get turned by it do so in private? Hey, sexual excitement in privacy...what a concept!

Hey, drew, that is well stated and i agree 250% of the way. I don't connect tickling and sex, the two are not related as far as I'm concerned. Maybe we should consider taking that step because there are far too many good stories that have been deleted because of this stigma. Imagine! Without the sexual element some people are so proud of, we could delve into stories from our childhood without being stifled. Sex and tickling do not go together as far as I'm concerned and this is something we might want to consider.

 

[chickles_:)]

Hiya
First let me thank you MTP Jeff for replying and helping me understand better where the gang there is coming from. I meant to reply before now about that but life, the universe, and everything kind of got me carried away.

-and the whole child abuse thing? probably a really bad e.g.
I confess I just sort of grabbed at it to dramatically make my point.

Anyway, I don't want to tell the folks here what to do with the site. Obviously they have arrived at their choice because of viewers' interests etc. But Tickle-Duo Ann referred to some sites where the 'playful' side of tickling is emphasised over the more XXX rated side. Anybody have ideas of what they might be?

Good discussion everybody. And thanks to everyone for letting this thread go this way. I think it's been good as a reflection about where we're at and the ever-evolving internet laws of many lands.

Many blessings,
Chickles_🙂

 

[MrMacphisto]

I'm gonna have to side with Iggy on this one. While I understand why the mods have to do what they must in accordance with legal issues, it really is sad that our society is so touchy about the minor issue that they overlook elements like kidnapping. If somebody is into minors in a not-so-innocent way, I'd rather they read about it and fantasize about it than actually engage in these acts with a minor. The more we remove this kind of content from the net as a whole, the more likely it is that pedophiles will seek to indulge in their twisted fantasies rather than sate such unhealthy appetites from reading said stories and keeping their hands to themselves (yeah, bad pun, I know). The bottom line is -- stories are harmless, but actual sexual acts with minors aren't.

Oh well... there I go again assuming people are fucking logical....

 

[OscarTheMonkey]

Well, What about revising the content of the thread to reflect early ADULT tickle experiences?? I never had a girl dressed up in a kinky outfit tied to a bed, and tickled her to death.... before I was 19 anyway.

I guess doing this really depends on whether the initial post creator is looking for non-sexual oriented tickling anecdotes or sexually motivated tickling stories... What do you think,Jeff?