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Flair, not just a hack, but he's a liar too.

Doesn't a thread about 'pro wrestling' and I use that term loosely, belong on the silly stuff forum, cause thats exactly what it is. Sure I used to watch it....when I was 12. Sorry, I just don't see the appeal. All the theatrics and drama, on steroids.

If you feel that way then why did you click on the thread? Oh wait... you have no life so you spend your time doing this, yet you feel it's ok to criticize us for talking about it to begin with.
 
Whaaaa??


Flair be Stylin' & Profilin' !


WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rockon:



ricflair.jpg

More like staggering around drunk, puking all over himself, and lets not forget the domestic dispute call his last wife made... who knows what happened there... no really does anybody know?
 
Sigh, Wrestling Observer's primary wrestler of the year award is called the lou thez/ric flair award. Flair has won this award 8 times, most outstanding wrestler 3 times, top fued 1 time, 3 times for best interview, Im not even going to continue, and also i haven't even gone into the hack PWI awards(which also has him as wrestler of the year 6 times)

But im sure your analysis/opinion probably trumps writers and professionals who, I don't know, actually work and document the sport

and for the record, Bret Hart has never won a wrestler of the year award
 
To be the man....you have to make sure he owes you money..woooo
 
Sigh, Wrestling Observer's primary wrestler of the year award is called the lou thez/ric flair award. Flair has won this award 8 times, most outstanding wrestler 3 times, top fued 1 time, 3 times for best interview, Im not even going to continue, and also i haven't even gone into the hack PWI awards(which also has him as wrestler of the year 6 times)

But im sure your analysis/opinion probably trumps writers and professionals who, I don't know, actually work and document the sport

and for the record, Bret Hart has never won a wrestler of the year award

Dave Meltzer once reported that Ric Flair and Bret Hart had a horrible match, and that it was because of Hart that it was bad. Meltzer later admitted that he hadn't actually seen the match and that he'd gotten the information from a fan that had been at the show. So, so much for the "professionals" who document the sport. Meltzer a Flair mark, that's all.

The fact that Bret Hart hasn't won a single Wrestler of the Year Award doesn't surprise me considering most of those are voted on by the fans, most of whom are idiots. If they had the vote today John Cena would win Wrestler of the Year. Not to mention that most of the voters for Wrestling Magazine awards are usually American's, the same people who couldn't except the fact that Donovan Bailey was the Fastest Man in the World in 1996, and the entire nation hated it when the Toronto Blue Jays won back to back World Series. Actually, after his time with the Jays, Cito Gaston couldn't get a coaching job for over 10 years, so Hart not winning a WotY Award doesn't surprise me.

When you considering Bret never had a bad match (until he "wrestled" Vince at WM XXVI), and that everybody he ever worked with came out looking like a superstar (unlike Flair, who only did so for people he wasn't threatened by). Curt Hennig dropped the IC title to Bret at Summer Slam, even though he had major back problems, not because he had to but out of respect for what Hart did to help build him up in the late 80's. Both Shawn Micheals and Steve Austin were built on their feuds with Bret Hart, and Vince McMahon chose Hart over Flair to carry the WWF banner. The fact he hasn't won a Wrestler of the Year award isn't his failure, but the obvious bias of the American run wrestling media.

Maybe he should have said "Wooo" in his promos, made and ass out of himself, by falling on his face like a court jester, took 3 minuets to land a punch, or waited 5 minuets for his opponents to throw him of the top turnbuckle, then maybe he would have won. Unfortunately Bret Hart was more interested in having the most believable matches possible. Just as important is the Goldberg factor. Hart's career was cut short by that clumsy football player. So who knows how much more he might have done if that hadn't happened. Not that it matters, Bret proved himself to be the superior ring worker to Flair, and a more believable personality. Hart's career took off in the 90's when he was a solo act, while Flair needed 3 other guys to carry him through his entire hey-day.

By the way, in 1988, Madusa Miceli was voted Rookie of the year by PWI readers, first runner up was Chris Benoit... I guess you probably believe Madusa was a better wrestler then Chris Benoit that year. Madusa was one of the best, but she was no Benoit in the ring.

Acclaim and honors

Hart has been credited by WWE and prominent industry figures as one of the greatest professional wrestlers of all time. WWE has also described him as one of the biggest names in the history of the business, and said of his popularity, "In the mid ’90s, there were very few, if any, Superstars as popular as Bret “Hit Man” Hart." WCW described Hart as, "universally respected by other wrestlers as perhaps the greatest pure wrestler to lace up a pair of boots." The organization also called Hart "an incredible international draw, attracting standing room only crowds in every corner of the globe." Since Hart's retirement, WWE chairman Vince McMahon has described him as the greatest technical wrestler and storyteller in the history of the business, and as giving the best match of the night every time he wrestled. Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, Roddy Piper, Bam Bam Bigelow and other wrestlers have named Hart as one of their favorite opponents.

Veteran AWA, WWF/E and WCW announcer Gene Okerlund has asserted that Hart should appear in anyone's list of the top ten greatest wrestlers of all time. Pro Wrestling Illustrated (PWI) readers voted Hart the greatest wrestler of 1993 and 1994 in the "PWI 500", as well as the "Most Inspirational Wrestler of the Year" 1994. PWI ranked him #4 of the top 500 singles wrestlers of the "PWI Years" in 2003, after Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, and Andre The Giant.

Hart was content saying good-bye to wrestling through his book and not working for a promotion after spending seven years on the project. "I'd be happy being remembered for really brilliant storytelling in my matches, not for some last chance to snap up some money," Hart said. "I respectfully understand my light in wrestling is fading. I can live with that." Hart said he nearly gave up on the project while trying to fight with the illnesses he faced after suffering a stroke in 2002. However, Hart wanted to bring closure on his wrestling career. "A lot of times, I thought about giving up because it was hard reliving some of these events. But I couldn't say goodbye to my wrestling character until I finished."

On the February 16, 2006, episode of Raw, it was announced that Hart would be a 2006 inductee into the WWE Hall of Fame. Hart had also been approached by Vince McMahon for a potential match between the two at WrestleMania 22 but declined the offer.[191] On April 1, 2006, Hart was inducted by "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. He thanked every wrestler he worked with (even thanking Vince McMahon) and said he's "in a good place in life." Despite Hart's claims around the time of WrestleMania 22, the idea of a match between Hart and McMahon was revived in 2010 following Bret's guest appearance on the January 4th edition of Raw. On March 1, 2010, it was confirmed that Hart and McMahon would have their match at WrestleMania XXVI.

On July 15, 2006, Bret Hart was inducted into the George Tragos/Lou Thesz Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame, at the International Wrestling Institute and Museum in Newton, Iowa. The induction took place in an immensely crowded and humid display room showcasing one of Hart's ring entrance jackets. The honor is only awarded to those with both a professional and amateur wrestling background, making Hart one of the youngest inductees. During his acceptance, Hart compared this induction to his place in the WWE Hall of Fame, saying "This is a much bigger honor for me."

In June 2008, Hart returned to the George Tragos/Lou Thesz Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame ceremony, this time to induct his father Stu Hart. At the induction ceremony in Waterloo, Iowa, he ridiculed Slam Wrestling editor Greg Oliver, calling him a "charlatan" and his books on wrestling "fiction" to the standing ovation of some wrestlers in attendance. At the end of the speech, Hart said "Either you go or I go." After Oliver refused to leave, Hart walked out of the ceremony with other wrestlers to scattered applause.

I guess Hart was to busy being great to worry about weather or not people gave him awards for it.
 
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Dave Meltzer once reported that Ric Flair and Bret Hart had a horrible match, and that it was because of Hart that it was bad. Meltzer later admitted that he hadn't actually seen the match and that he'd gotten the information from a fan that had been at the show. So, so much for the "professionals" who document the sport. Meltzer a Flair mark, that's all.

The fact that Bret Hart hasn't won a single Wrestler of the Year Award doesn't surprise me considering most of those are voted on by the fans, most of whom are idiots. If they had the vote today John Cena would win Wrestler of the Year. Not to mention that most of the voters for Wrestling Magazine awards are usually American's, the same people who couldn't except the fact that Donovan Bailey was the Fastest Man in the World in 1996, and the entire nation hated it when the Toronto Blue Jays won back to back World Series. Actually, after his time with the Jays, Cito Gaston couldn't get a coaching job for over 10 years, so Hart not winning a WotY Award doesn't surprise me.

When you considering Bret never had a bad match (until he "wrestled" Vince at WM XXVI), and that everybody he ever worked with came out looking like a superstar (unlike Flair, who only did so for people he wasn't threatened by). Curt Hennig dropped the IC title to Bret at Summer Slam, even though he had major back problems, not because he had to but out of respect for what Hart did to help build him up in the late 80's. Both Shawn Micheals and Steve Austin were built on their feuds with Bret Hart, and Vince McMahon chose Hart over Flair to carry the WWF banner. The fact he hasn't won a Wrestler of the Year award isn't his failure, but the obvious bias of the American run wrestling media.

Maybe he should have said "Wooo" in his promos, made and ass out of himself, by falling on his face like a court jester, took 3 minuets to land a punch, or waited 5 minuets for his opponents to throw him of the top turnbuckle, then maybe he would have won. Unfortunately Bret Hart was more interested in having the most believable matches possible. Just as important is the Goldberg factor. Hart's career was cut short by that clumsy football player. So who knows how much more he might have done if that hadn't happened. Not that it matters, Bret proved himself to be the superior ring worker to Flair, and a more believable personality. Hart's career took off in the 90's when he was a solo act, while Flair needed 3 other guys to carry him through his entire hey-day.

By the way, in 1988, Madusa Miceli was voted Rookie of the year by PWI readers, first runner up was Chris Benoit... I guess you probably believe Madusa was a better wrestler then Chris Benoit that year. Madusa was one of the best, but she was no Benoit in the ring.



I guess Hart was to busy being great to worry about weather or not people gave him awards for it.

If you show me a clip of Benoit's first year of professional wrestling vs Madusa's, then I can make a comment on it, but I didn't, you didn't, so i won't judge that

Also the PWI awards are voted by the fans and you can see that by the slant to the non good wrestlers and marks

The Observer is done by Melzer and his crew, again if you read the list, you would see the Observer you see a slew of wrestlers from AJPW/NJPW/PWNOAH

Bret Hart didn't even win best technical wrestler from the Observer, but im sure you would complain that he was robbed by Liger, Hase, benoit and malenko. Hell Liger was voted best tech AND best high flyer for some years

Keep trotting your long winded "examples of proof"

I will continue to give my short fact based logic
 
If you show me a clip of Benoit's first year of professional wrestling vs Madusa's, then I can make a comment on it, but I didn't, you didn't, so i won't judge that

Also the PWI awards are voted by the fans and you can see that by the slant to the non good wrestlers and marks

The Observer is done by Melzer and his crew, again if you read the list, you would see the Observer you see a slew of wrestlers from AJPW/NJPW/PWNOAH

Bret Hart didn't even win best technical wrestler from the Observer, but im sure you would complain that he was robbed by Liger, Hase, benoit and malenko. Hell Liger was voted best tech AND best high flyer for some years

Keep trotting your long winded "examples of proof"

I will continue to give my short fact based logic

Like I said, Melzer and his people have a bias against Hart, the fact that he's never one any of the "Observers" awards for Best Technical Wrestler, or Wrestler of the year is in fact solid proof of that. I would never knock any of the Japanese wrestlers, but I will knock Melzer, and question if he actually knows what he's doing.

By the way, I was a regular watcher of WWF TV and PPV's in 1992, and Flair never had any great televised matches (well Savage carried him at WrestleMania as best he could), so how the hell did he win Wrestler of the Year that year? Even if somebody had a better year then Bret in 92, it sure as hell wasn't Flair. Then in 93 it was Vader... now I like Vader, but better then Hart? Sorry no sale. Kurt Angle only has 1 Wrestler of the Year award? That's almost as shameful as Hart's having none. OH, look here, John Cena won Wrestler of the Year in 2007 & 2010, so during those years he was better then AJ Styles, or Chris Daniels? I DON'T THINK SO!

Remember Blitzkrieg from WCW, Melzer gave him Rookie of the Year in 1999. His real name is Jay Ross, his debut year was 1994... so... yeah, I guess ol' Dave really did his homework on that one.

One last thing. In 2008, and 2009 Jericho won wrestler of the year. I have no opinion on it, because I wasn't following the shows at the time. Good for him, I am glad a countryman won. However, if you asked him if he thought that made him a better worker then Hart, I guarantee you he's flat out say no, and he would probably be surprised to know neither Hart brother ever won Wrestler of the Year.

Now that may have been long winded, but the attacker always has to work a little harder then the defender. Fuck Melzer, and the wrestling Observer. They are both Laughable.
ST
 
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Dave Meltzer once reported that Ric Flair and Bret Hart had a horrible match, and that it was because of Hart that it was bad. Meltzer later admitted that he hadn't actually seen the match and that he'd gotten the information from a fan that had been at the show. So, so much for the "professionals" who document the sport. Meltzer a Flair mark, that's all.

The fact that Bret Hart hasn't won a single Wrestler of the Year Award doesn't surprise me considering most of those are voted on by the fans, most of whom are idiots. If they had the vote today John Cena would win Wrestler of the Year. Not to mention that most of the voters for Wrestling Magazine awards are usually American's, the same people who couldn't except the fact that Donovan Bailey was the Fastest Man in the World in 1996, and the entire nation hated it when the Toronto Blue Jays won back to back World Series. Actually, after his time with the Jays, Cito Gaston couldn't get a coaching job for over 10 years, so Hart not winning a WotY Award doesn't surprise me.

When you considering Bret never had a bad match (until he "wrestled" Vince at WM XXVI), and that everybody he ever worked with came out looking like a superstar (unlike Flair, who only did so for people he wasn't threatened by). Curt Hennig dropped the IC title to Bret at Summer Slam, even though he had major back problems, not because he had to but out of respect for what Hart did to help build him up in the late 80's. Both Shawn Micheals and Steve Austin were built on their feuds with Bret Hart, and Vince McMahon chose Hart over Flair to carry the WWF banner. The fact he hasn't won a Wrestler of the Year award isn't his failure, but the obvious bias of the American run wrestling media.

Maybe he should have said "Wooo" in his promos, made and ass out of himself, by falling on his face like a court jester, took 3 minuets to land a punch, or waited 5 minuets for his opponents to throw him of the top turnbuckle, then maybe he would have won. Unfortunately Bret Hart was more interested in having the most believable matches possible. Just as important is the Goldberg factor. Hart's career was cut short by that clumsy football player. So who knows how much more he might have done if that hadn't happened. Not that it matters, Bret proved himself to be the superior ring worker to Flair, and a more believable personality. Hart's career took off in the 90's when he was a solo act, while Flair needed 3 other guys to carry him through his entire hey-day.

By the way, in 1988, Madusa Miceli was voted Rookie of the year by PWI readers, first runner up was Chris Benoit... I guess you probably believe Madusa was a better wrestler then Chris Benoit that year. Madusa was one of the best, but she was no Benoit in the ring.



I guess Hart was to busy being great to worry about weather or not people gave him awards for it.

Give me a break. Hart was one of the most boring predictable wrestlers in history. He had a handful of moves(Russian leg sweep, Back Breaker, that ridiculous elbow off the top rope, and his finishing move, the Sharpshooter which was basically a rip-off of Stings scorpion deathlock). And his repetoire never changed. He was performing the exact same moves in 1997 as he was in 1992. So it's easy to never have a bad match when you never improvise or never work on new wresting manuevers He wasn't half the performer, or athelete Flair or Shawn Michaels was. Plus he was(or rather his character was) a whiny crybaby who quit when things got tough, and who blamed everyone else(Austin, Michaels, MacMahon and finally the U.S.) for his problems. His character was also a hypocrite. He talked about being a role model, and a hero(A hero. Please give me a break. To me a hero is a soldier, or a police officer, or a fireighter. Hart was simply an athelete, nothing more). But while he was preaching about how much class and honor he had, he was also cheating on his wife w/Sunny. He also cried about how HBK was so cocky, conceited and arrogant. But who was the one calling himself the Best there is, the Best there was, and the Best there ever will be, and the Excellence of Execution?
As far as Shawn Michaels building his career off matches w/Bret Hart, that's BS also. HBK had numerous incredible matches many of which occured while Hart was onvacation after the Ironman match and after Hart left for WCW. Flair also had numerous epic matches w/Barry Windham, Sting, Rickey Morton, and Dusty Rhodes, before he ever got in the ring w/Hart.
Now before you accuse me of attacking Hart because he's Canadian(and I'm an American), I'm a huge fan of a couple Canadian Wrestlers - I actually thought Brets younger brother Owen was a far superior performer, and not nearly as annoying on the mic. I was also a huge fan of Petey Williams, and I can't understand why TNA ever let him go. Maple Leaf Muscle is awesome, and definitely championship material. Hopefully wherever he ends up, he'll be wearing some gold soon.
As far as the Blue Jays were concerned, I was actually a huge Blue Jays fan and rooted for them in both the 92, and 93 WS, because as a Baltimore native, I always root for the American League. Plus I thought Toronto had a smart, solid organization, and I wondered why the Orioles were so incompetent in comparison. I was especially happy when they beat the Phillies in '93, because Philadelphia fans are incredibly obnoxious, and Toronto was clearly the superior club. And yes I also thought Cito Gaston was incredibly underrated, and was a helluva manager.
Just my 2 cents
 
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Give me a break. Hart was one of the most boring predictable wrestlers in history. He had a handful of moves(Russian leg sweep, Back Breaker, that ridiculous elbow off the top rope, and his finishing move, the Sharpshooter which was basically a rip-off of Stings scorpion deathlock). And his repetoire never changed. He was performing the exact same moves in 1997 as he was in 1992. So it's easy to never have a bad match when you never improvise or never work on new wresting manuevers He wasn't half the performer, or athelete Flair or Shawn Michaels was. Plus he was(or rather his character was) a whiny crybaby who quit when things got tough, and who blamed everyone else(Austin, Michaels, MacMahon and finally the U.S.) for his problems. His character was also a hypocrite. He talked about being a role model, and a hero(A hero. Please give me a break. To me a hero is a soldier, or a police officer, or a fireighter. Hart was simply an athelete, nothing more). But while he was preaching about how much class and honor he had, he was also cheating on his wife w/Sunny. He also cried about how HBK was so cocky, conceited and arrogant. But who was the one calling himself the Best there is, the Best there was, and the Best there ever will be, and the Excellence of Execution?
As far as Shawn Michaels building his career off matches w/Bret Hart, that's BS also. HBK had numerous incredible matches many of which occured while Hart was onvacation after the Ironman match and after Hart left for WCW. Flair also had numerous epic matches w/Barry Windham, Sting, Rickey Morton, and Dusty Rhodes, before he ever got in the ring w/Hart.
Now before you accuse me of attacking Hart because he's Canadian(and I'm an American), I'm a huge fan of a couple Canadian Wrestlers - I actually thought Brets younger brother Owen was a far superior performer, and not nearly as annoying on the mic. I was also a huge fan of Petey Williams, and I can't understand why TNA ever let him go. Maple Leaf Muscle is awesome, and definitely championship material. Hopefully wherever he ends up, he'll be wearing some gold soon.
As far as the Blue Jays were concerned, I was actually a huge Blue Jays fan and rooted for the in both the 92, and 93 WS, because as a Baltimore native, I always root for the American League. Plus I thought Toronto had a smart, solid organization, and I wondered why the Orioles were so incompetent in comparison. I was especially happy when they beat the Phillies in '93, because Philadelphia fans are incredibly obnoxious, and Toronto was clearly the superior club. And yes I also thought Cito Gaston was incredibly underrated, and was a helluva manager.
Just my 2 cents

Your 2 cents in monopoly money. The match that elevated Shawn to Superstar status was the Intercontinental Title match he had with Bret at the 91 Survivor Series, with out it he'd never have become the sensation he became, not to mention that it was during Hart's vacation (and Shawn's first run as champion) that the WCW took the lead in the ratings. Nobody in wrestling was any more predicable then Flair, chop, chop, rolling over the top rope, run along the ring apron, hope on the top rope, get tossed of the top rope, low blow to opponent, figure 4 to win.

You have know idea what you are talking about, but, hanks for commin' out.
ST
 
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I thought the Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart Iron Man match at Wrestlemania XII was awesome.
 
Your 2 cents in monopoly money. The match that elevated Shawn to Superstar status was the Intercontinental Title match he had with Bret at the 91 Survivor Series, with out it he'd never have become the sensation he became, not to mention that it was during Hart's vacation (and Shawn's first run as champion) that the WCW took the lead in the ratings. Nobody in wrestling was any more predicable then Flair, chop, chop, rolling over the top rope, run along the ring apron, hope on the top rope, get tossed of the top rope, low blow to opponent, figure 4 to win.

You have know idea what you are talking about, but, hanks for commin' out.
ST

So you're now using ratings and mass popularity to support your argument? If that's the case then no talent hacks like Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin would be great wrestlers because they were so popular. You're as much a hypocrite as Hart himself. You dismiss Cena's popularity due to wrestling fans being idiots, but then you use ratings and viewership(generated by those same fans) to prove how great Hart was. You can't have it both ways. And as far as HBK never becoming a superstar had it not been for Hart, how do you come to that conclusion? You provide no facts or logic in your arguments, merely an obsessive man crush on Bret Hart.
Hart was a great athelete, but nowhere near the best, and not even not the best Canadian wrestler. As I mentioned Owen Hart, Petey Williams, and also Chris Jericho and Ronnie Garvin(I also forgot to mention Flair and Garvin had some epic matches back when Hart was a little known tag team wrestler in the Hart Foundation) were/are IMO far superior wrestlers and much better performers.
And BTW it's "You have NO idea what you are talking about, not "know" Now pull up your Bret Hart bed covers and go back to sleep.
 
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Like I said, Melzer and his people have a bias against Hart, the fact that he's never one any of the "Observers" awards for Best Technical Wrestler, or Wrestler of the year is in fact solid proof of that.

First off, it's "won" not one (sigh). Secondly, this isn't fact of anything other than as a professional in the business, he made his decisions based on his opinion - not yours. Sorry to disappoint you, but I think his has a little more credibility than one of a 'fan' who self-admittedly says they rarely watch anymore.

By the way, I was a regular watcher of WWF TV and PPV's in 1992, and Flair never had any great televised matches (well Savage carried him at WrestleMania as best he could), so how the hell did he win Wrestler of the Year that year? Even if somebody had a better year then Bret in 92, it sure as hell wasn't Flair. Then in 93 it was Vader... now I like Vader, but better then Hart? Sorry no sale. Kurt Angle only has 1 Wrestler of the Year award? That's almost as shameful as Hart's having none. OH, look here, John Cena won Wrestler of the Year in 2007 & 2010, so during those years he was better then AJ Styles, or Chris Daniels? I DON'T THINK SO!

In order to accurately assess the award, one has to first know in which qualifications the candidates were being judged. 'Wrestler of the Year' can be a cumulative total of many different factors besides actual wrestling skill. Fan appeal? of course. Merchandise sells? Yes. PPV Buy rates? yes. Bottom line is which wrestler 'put butts in the seats' and produced more income for their promotion and for the business. That factor alone tells you why John Cena won. This does not necessarily mean the winner has more wrestling skill than another candidate or is a better worker. But it does mean they are better in the business because they produce more income for their promotion and promote the business more in general.

I do not know what factors the award is based, therefore I cannot say. Point I am making is the award isn't based on wrestling skill alone.

Now that may have been long winded, but the attacker always has to work a little harder then the defender. Fuck Melzer, and the wrestling Observer. They are both Laughable.
ST

Again Slaver, this is your opinion, to which you are entitled. Most of what you state as 'fact' is still just your opinion. Until you gain an educated opinion or inside knowledge from actually working in the business as a professional, your opinion means as much as the opinion of anyone else on a fetish forum - very little.

Also, wrestling books and autobiographies are pretty much meaningless. Every wrestler with half a name in the business has one these days. They mean zero. They are all self-opinionated with the sole intent to SELL. If you believe everything you read in any wrestling autobiography you are a complete moron.
 
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I thought the Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart Iron Man match at Wrestlemania XII was awesome.

My favorite Shawn Michaels match was the ladder match with Razor Ramon at WM 10. You know, the one where someone said "All Scott Hall did was step in a ring with Shawn Michaels and a bunch of ladders and he became a superstar." Regardless, I still liked the match.
 
Give me a break. Hart was one of the most boring predictable wrestlers in history. He had a handful of moves(Russian leg sweep, Back Breaker, that ridiculous elbow off the top rope, and his finishing move, the Sharpshooter which was basically a rip-off of Stings scorpion deathlock). And his repetoire never changed. He was performing the exact same moves in 1997 as he was in 1992. So it's easy to never have a bad match when you never improvise or never work on new wresting manuevers

Very well said. :goodjob:
 
Here's my two cents.... as a guy who LOVED wrestling in the 80's-late 90's but doesn't watch much anymore.

Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan were EXACTLY what wrestling needed. Two guys who could really work a crowd. Neither of them were great technical wrestlers(Hogan especially) but that didn't matter. What put wrestling on the national map was swagger. The fans needed a voice and through Hogan and Flair they got that.....

HUNDREDS of more talented wrestlers came and went and the fans still wanted Flair and Hogan.... because they could do so well, what most of the wrestling community couldn't.... they could handle the mic. If you look at all of the biggest stars over the last 20 years it has almost always been a guy who could talk(Austin, Rock, Cena etc) because that's what the fans want.

At the end of the day, the people who pay to watch want the guys who can talk.... wrestling ability matters very little to most casual fans, and that is why Flair and Hogan STILL matter.... perhaps it's not right, but it's true...
 
My favorite Shawn Michaels match was the ladder match with Razor Ramon at WM 10. You know, the one where someone said "All Scott Hall did was step in a ring with Shawn Michaels and a bunch of ladders and he became a superstar." Regardless, I still liked the match.

That was your buddy Ric Flair, he also said "Whats TNA" in that Round Table with Mick Foley. He also said in the interview that started this post that he would never work for TNA, and now he is, and that's why he is a liar. He said Bret Hart would never be a draw, yet when Hart was World Champion in the WWF they were still doing very well, while Flair was back in WCW and they were still failing in the ratings.
 
Again Slaver, this is your opinion, to which you are entitled. Most of what you state as 'fact' is still just your opinion. Until you gain an educated opinion or inside knowledge from actually working in the business as a professional, your opinion means as much as the opinion of anyone else on a fetish forum - very little.

Well here are two facts.

1) Flair said Hart wouldn't be a Draw, yet while he was World Champion the WWF was getting better ratings then WCW did when Ric Flair went back, and even when Hulk Hogan joined WCW.

2) It wasn't until your pal Shawn Micheals won the World Title that WCW took the lead in ratings. This was before the nWo angle had started. This one comes from your buddy Dave Melzer who\s opinion you seem to live and die on.

By the way, this isn't my opinion this is a fact I found on the internet...

Hart has been credited by WWE and prominent industry figures as one of the greatest professional wrestlers of all time. WWE has also described him as one of the biggest names in the history of the business, and said of his popularity, "In the mid ’90s, there were very few, if any, Superstars as popular as Bret “Hit Man” Hart." WCW described Hart as, "universally respected by other wrestlers as perhaps the greatest pure wrestler to lace up a pair of boots." The organization also called Hart "an incredible international draw, attracting standing room only crowds in every corner of the globe." Since Hart's retirement, WWE chairman Vince McMahon has described him as the greatest technical wrestler and storyteller in the history of the business, and as giving the best match of the night every time he wrestled. Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, Roddy Piper, Bam Bam Bigelow and other wrestlers have named Hart as one of their favorite opponents.

These things have been said about Bret, few people have said anything bad about him, other then Flair, (and a couple of guys from the Kliq) and the bases for Flair's remarks about Bret is that he was a Tag-Team wrestler when Hogan was doing his thing in the 80's. So what? What does that have to do with the guys talent. I mean he kisses Shawn Micheals ass like he's the 2nd coming of Lou Thez, but he was a mid-card tag team guy at one point to, so that really makes no sense... I guess it's good to be friends with the Son-In-Law, because even the "Great" Ric Flair will kiss your ass.

You want an opinion from somebody in the biz, I'll see if I can't get one for you.
ST
 
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I posted a response on this thread because like I said, I used to watch wrestling when I was younger. You are just a prick who attacks anyone who doesn't share your personal opinion. Like your ridiculous worship of William Shatner and Lynda Carter, two B list at most actors. You need to get a life. The show 'Wonder Woman' was terrible. She was hot but thats all that needs mentioned. I await the 'you are a douche bag' typical response from you. Cause thats all you neanderthal brain works at. Buh bye, idiot.
 
I posted a response on this thread because like I said, I used to watch wrestling when I was younger. You are just a prick who attacks anyone who doesn't share your personal opinion. Like your ridiculous worship of William Shatner and Lynda Carter, two B list at most actors. You need to get a life. The show 'Wonder Woman' was terrible. She was hot but thats all that needs mentioned. I await the 'you are a douche bag' typical response from you. Cause thats all you neanderthal brain works at. Buh bye, idiot.


If you had a life of your own, you wouldn't have time to analyze mine.
 
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Very well said. :goodjob:

Regardless of how you feel about His wrestling stile (like it or hate it) doesn't change the fact that Shawn's matches with Bret are what made him a superstar. Not to mention that Bret saved Shawn's life at during the Iron Man Match.
 
Well here are two facts.

1) Flair said Hart wouldn't be a Draw, yet while he was World Champion the WWF was getting better ratings then WCW did when Ric Flair went back, and even when Hulk Hogan joined WCW.

Flair said a lot of things Slaver. Unlike you I do not live or die on every word a pro wrestler says, but choose to take each with a grain is salt. Because tomorrow their opinions and thoughts might change. That does happen in life you know. It doesn't make someone a liar like you make them out to be.

2) It wasn't until your pal Shawn Micheals won the World Title that WCW took the lead in ratings. This was before the nWo angle had started. This one comes from your buddy Dave Melzer who\s opinion you seem to live and die on.

My pal? I don't even know Shawn Michaels you dumbass. And again, unlike you, I would never 'live or die' on anything anyone in pro wrestling says, because they will most likely change their opinion tomorrow. Unless they decide to write their next book to make up something else that sells to idiots who actually buy it. Because we all know if it's in a pro wrestling book it just has to be true..

By the way, this isn't my opinion this is a fact I found on the internet...



These things have been said about Bret, few people have said anything bad about him, other then Flair, (and a couple of guys from the Kliq) and the bases for Flair's remarks about Bret is that he was a Tag-Team wrestler when Hogan was doing his thing in the 80's. So what? What does that have to do with the guys talent. I mean he kisses Shawn Micheals ass like he's the 2nd coming of Lou Thez, but he was a mid-card tag team guy at one point to, so that really makes no sense... I guess it's good to be friends with the Son-In-Law, because even the "Great" Ric Flair will kiss your ass.

Before I would state anything as 'fact' (especially on the internet) I would seriously consider the source and references involved. That said, I do agree that tag team or singles should not take away from a performer's talents.

You want an opinion from somebody in the biz, I'll see if I can't get one for you.
ST

Please do not quote some hack from the local gym who played varsity football but never learned to read or write, so now they are reduced to a life of emptiness playing a nothing character in a nothing promotion because they didn't have the education to actually get a real job.
 
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