Gatherings...open or closed events?

[TickledToDeath]

Re: Re: Case and point...briefly

I hate to do this but...

I'm glad to see you removed our name from that list. That has NOT been our experience with you. Nor has it been the case for at least one of the others on your list. Intentions may be all well and good. I don't believe that you mean to offend or mislead. But actions speak much louder than words. You don't seem to realize how some actions are taken by others. Put it into practice and we'll consider supporting your events...and having you at ours.

Ann

Now THIS was totally UNfriggin Called for Ann, just because YOU and Drew do not share the intensity that I and others do and the fact that YOU and Drew have NEVER attended one of MY gatherings, your comments are worthless and without basis and or merrit!
For you to go PUBLIC now with this opinion is a back stabbing insult that I do NOT appreciate and as I have to you, expect an Apology! Just as public as your twofaced comments you just made here!

TTD

 

[TicklingDuo]

I'm sorry that you see it that way Ed. Had you not proclaimed yourself and your gatherings to be safe, I'd have kept it to myself. (You'll notice that I didn't give any details.) But, as was pointed out by a friend, my silence in the face of you proclaiming things safe is a show of support by default.

I don't say that you're doing it on purpose. I don't say that it can't change. I simply shared my experience for the sake of those who may not know better and walk into something that they are not prepared for. You keep saying that this is a matter of play style. If you consider no boundaries, no safeword respect and no taking of responsibility for the well-being of others to be your play style, you're right. We definitely DON'T share the same style.

As for an apology, the only thing I'm sorry for is that this got this far. If you'd taken responsibility and changed your ways, it wouldn't have been necessary. I will not apologize for warning others of a potential risk. Live with it.

Ann

 

[TickledToDeath]

DVNC, a can - o - worms is being opened here, and I am not the one holding the can opener. Everyone has their own levels of play. Some more intense than others. Saftey was and is NOT the issue as I did NOT hurt anyone. The event in question was spoken to and attoned for but unless there are two faced people out there who told me one thing having NO problem with me or shygirl for that matter and then went behind my back and said something else to others, then there is a seperate issue and problem.
There are many who have attended Hyenas Gatherings that have had a safe and comfortable time with NO problem whatsoever and unless YOU attended one yourself, your opinion my "friend"(?) has no merrit.
Mia was at one, njjen at several and HER play is more intense than mine but I will not go there. There are others and you can ask me for their names but to go public with this shit is beyond reproach and an insult to me personally. However when people start talking behind peoples back, then maybe you should question THEIR integrity and NOT mine as I attoned for my momentary lapse of reason and am still be crucified for it! This is NOT fair since I am not allowed to defend myself and am being made out to be something I am not!
Furthermore, the REAL reason is because of that email list, people were being talked about behind their backs as I am sure I am now too and have been obviously in the recent past, is unfair to them since they have not been able to allowed to defend themselves and that was the point I was trying to make.
I am and never have been dangerous to play with and never will be. People know I and shygirl for that mattter are known to be into more intense level of tickling but we never have been "angerous". You should gather more than a couple of opinins or just the negative ones' and weigh them out and show those who are on MY side and are of true friendship and know what friendship means and friends do NOT stab friends in the back like this!!!!!!!!!!!!

TTD

Do lemme blow my own horn. I've had events where people went outta bounds. Had a drunk get so soused he passed out. Had hosts find their first experience to be their ONLY desired one. Had harsh words. No event is perfect. Some are just WAY more outta bounds. Mine never have been that far, and it was too far for me.

They ARE social events. Sometimes, socially, people can suck. Happens. So far, what I know has happened has been atoned for, as best can be done.

Ann's sayin' TTD's been outta bounds. TTD's already not goin' t'NEST, as he declared in a NEST thread. There's issues here, clearly. TTD's brought this up again. Ann's callin' him on it. So am I.

There's issues 'tween ways to play. Safe vs. most extreme. Boundaries versus excitement. That list is long.

There's issues 'tween levels of play, from ticklefights to complex bondage.

There's the issue of sexuality during play. Most of "us" are turned on, but most youths are turned on while dancing. Neither is a problem if self-control is evident. What's okay for one person ain't okay for another.

What's okay for YOU is up to you. This means you CHOOSE to attend. If you don't get clear on what's gonna happen, if you don't see to the level of safety that you expect, there are ugly surprises.

If you like surprises, go for it.

Many of us hosts now confer, so that, for a majority of events, there's a unified degree of safety. Max Speers' NEST is such an event. So's CAT, clearly. West Coast represented here, AND via NEST. The list is also long, there. It's even pointed out on Ann's fine site.

This also means that even the HOSTS disagree on what's cool and what ain't. Ann don't agree wit' TTD, clearly. I don't either.

This, folks, is where we all choose up sides and fight about who's cooler. Remember high school. This is that SAME damned game.

If you don't like safety rules, and screened guests, don't go to such events. If you do, contact Ann, Max, QB, Danimal, Me, Andy, Mia, Bella, Jo, Kate, Crydun, Ticklebear, Spencer or any of the others who have such stringent adherence to such safety checks. If you want the wild ride and the risk, anyone can just take that risk. Go to it.

Ask your host what protections you have. Ask what the event rules are. It ain't hard to get a safety check identified. If you don't know how, check the Tickle Scene site. Check the West Coast Gatherings site. They both delineate such.

You're all grown-ups, here. You all can look, see, hear and decide for yourselves.

As for the details of what TTD did, ain't my place t'say, nor do I think it relevant. Someone I respect knows he didn't play well and safely at an event. That's enough for me. That it ain't all is too much for me. That it's starin' me in the face is, too.

TTD is a hell of a friendly guy. Fun to hang with. Ain't someone I'd recommend to play with, though, 'cause he broke boundaries and is publically lyin' about it, here:


Back to the topic, though. His ARE open events, even if not all the respected folks in this community agree with his perspective on them. I won't attend 'em, that's for sure. Would take a lot to change my perspective on that, now, too.

dvnc

 

[TickledToDeath]

Jen, How the hell can you say this! Are you on drugs?! Why is it these people you speak of did not say a thing to me and told me afterwards that they had fun and had no problem! YOU of all people trashing me like this!?
As for the Saftey rules at the Charity Gathering, they were available to everyone who attended that event, and now that YOU opened this can, there were more complaints about YOU than anything else.
I have NEVER had an UNsafe gathering.
This is a witch hunt and if you all want to make ME the scapegoat, fine.
\
TTD

I was not going to add to this thread as I am not invloved with the group of hosts that are contributing here. But, since TTD has mentioned me, I feel I must say something.

One of the reasons I started SBG was as a result of the Hyenas Charity gathering in 2001. I was a Hyenas Moderator and very involved with the group. I was also the one who suggested using the club that this event was held at since I knew the owner. TTD made all the arrangements with her, but as the event drew closer, I noticed that no rules were sent out to the attendees. Being familiar with this club and many like it, I know that they have house rules that must be adhered to for the safety of everyone present. I contacted the owner and she told me she had sent the house rules to TTD weeks before. He had dismissed them completely.

Several times TTD and I have discussed safety and rules and he has always assured me that rules were not necessary. That was the last Hyenas event I have been to and plan to attend. TTD's gatherings are more of a "free-for-all". That is not a safe environment that I'd recommend for anyone especially a new person to the scene. It is implied, by lack of rules and the behavior modeled by TTD that a bound lee means everyone attack. I remember one gathering that I was late to because of traffic. There were several male lers there and when the 1st female arrived, she was pounced on. The attack was initiated by TTD himself. This was told to me by the female herself. She knew no one there personally and was assured safety by TTD. It took quite alot to get her to ever come back to a gathering again based on that experience. Fortunately she had been to another gathering before and knew that some gatherings DO follow strict rules.

Based on this, I feel my name should not be included on this list of Hyenas Club praisers. I do not feel that TTD holds a safe gathering at all.

Jen

 

[TickledToDeath]

How many apologies, Ann are needed? I did so a dozen times. That did not get to the group or out in public? DID it? Noooooooooo. Just this negative crap. I fucked up and apoligized for it and am not being allowed to prove it, especially after THIS bashing! What the frig will it take to show you if I am not allowed to SHOW you.

(Primal scream therapy....AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!)

TTD

I'm sorry that you see it that way Ed. Had you not proclaimed yourself and your gatherings to be safe, I'd have kept it to myself. (You'll notice that I didn't give any details.) But, as was pointed out by a friend, my silence in the face of you proclaiming things safe is a show of support by default.

I don't say that you're doing it on purpose. I don't say that it can't change. I simply shared my experience for the sake of those who may not know better and walk into something that they are not prepared for. You keep saying that this is a matter of play style. If you consider no boundaries, no safeword respect and no taking of responsibility for the well-being of others to be your play style, you're right. We definitely DON'T share the same style.

As for an apology, the only thing I'm sorry for is that this got this far. If you'd taken responsibility and changed your ways, it wouldn't have been necessary. I will not apologize for warning others of a potential risk. Live with it.

Ann

 

[TicklingDuo]

I won't justify this with further comment Ed. We've talked it to death and gotten nowhere with it. I'm out of any further discussion concerning you. I'll only respond to other topics in this post.

Ann

 

[QBWeaver]

There's a very fine line, and a very important one, to take into consideration at any gathering.
Some people play at different levels. Some are more intense, some like the more playful teasing.
As a host, it's imperative that we take that into consideration at a gathering.

It's scary enough going to a gathering. Just getting over the nervousness is hard to do. I know of people who got to the door and just couldn't walk in due to their nerves. Those who did come in, found a group of regular folks who enjoy this "sport" called tickling.

The intensity, for me, is something that is much better kept private, although all tickling is pretty darned intense. But the mind games that you can play with are often lost in a large gathering. The levels I've played at are not for the mild of heart. So I don't go there at a gathering.

I know how frightened I was at my first gathering and especially at my first NEST where I flew across country alone to attend not knowing anyone there except for online names and voices over the phone. If I had the slightest notion that I'd be pounced upon, I would have never gone.

Rules are a MUST at a gathering. Respect for the "lees" is a MUST. If you play at one level that's good for you but it's not good for everyone. No one should be subjected to it unless they agree to it. To subject anyone to that intensity really needs to be done cautiously and definitely not first time meeting unless that person feels totally comfortable and volunteers for it.

Lots of the issues being raised are things that have been discussed before with the parties involved here. Most of them have been discussed privately so as not to "bother" everyone with the stuff. Although this is a rough discussion I hope this will clear the air. It does show how gatherings are definitely different and how different hosts will run their gatherings in different ways. My recommendation is that if you will attend a gathering, attend with a friend you already know. That way you have someone to look after you.

Just my #.02

 

[TickledToDeath]

I won't justify this with further comment Ed. We've talked it to death and gotten nowhere with it. I'm out of any further discussion concerning you. I'll only respond to other topics in this post.

Ann

That's news to me, Ann, since when we last spoke, things were on their way to being resolved. How quickly faces turn with you.
How many apoligies are needed? 12? 22? 106? Give me the number.
If not alowed to prove myself, what else do you or ANY of you expect of me?
This is sooooooooooooooooooooo wrong.
But true colors are being shown.

TTD

 

[TickledToDeath]

Oh and by the way...

NOBODY was POUNCED on that did not accept it and later admitted to ME personally, that she enjoyed it!

TTD

 

[njjen3953]

I seriously doubt that. She complained about it to me and I distinctly remember her saying over and over, "I do not understand this concept of torture style tickling. It is supposed to be fun".

 

[TickledToDeath]

I seriously doubt that. She complained about it to me and I distinctly remember her saying over and over, "I do not understand this concept of torture style tickling. It is supposed to be fun".

YOU and ME need to chat privatly, JEN.

TTD

 

[TickledToDeath]

I ask and invite ANYONE directly involved and in question not already in this thread

to contact me directly and in private(through e-mail) who has a problem or complaint with me and or shygirl.
WE need to straighten this out. No more talking behind backs.
Come to ME!


Oh and dvnc, your attitued and comments about me changed alot since s
SBG 1.
And I haven't seen you since then.
Don't judge by others comments and misconceptions and opinions.

That goes for everyone here who has NOT been to one of MY gatherings.
There are many who slack off on the use of safewords and nobody has ever been "HURT" at any of my events.

TTD

 

[TicklingDuo]

That's news to me, Ann, since when we last spoke, things were on their way to being resolved. How quickly faces turn with you.
How many apoligies are needed? 12? 22? 106? Give me the number.
If not alowed to prove myself, what else do you or ANY of you expect of me?
This is sooooooooooooooooooooo wrong.
But true colors are being shown.

TTD

OK...one more response and I'm out.

Yes, Ed. We DID talk. Yes, I did forgive what you did at our place. That hasn't changed. And it's not what I'm challenging.

That doesn't take away from it having happened. Nor does it excuse the fact that I went out of my way to contact people who'd complained to me to express your desire to reconcile. The only letters you ever acknowledged reciept of are those that supported you....none that challenged you. Now, you've asked Jan to repeat what I've already done? And, you're posting the same here?

Why bother if you're not going to accept responsibility and respond?The reason you state for lack of response? A virus is selectively deleting e-mails? The only thing it seems to delete are those that challenge you to grow and change. That's one heck of a virus you've got there! Can I get one of those? I'd love to never hear anything negative.

I'm sorry Ed. I TOLD you that change was a condition of my accepting you back into our home or any form of play with us. I TOLD you that responding appropriately to those you'd hurt was only a first step. Confronting your total lack of action is not being two faced. It's renewing the challenge and alerting others to a potential problem. How am I supposed to see you as willing to change in action if you won't even take that first step?

See it as you will. But, I'll sleep fine tonight. A clear conscience tends to allow that.

Ann

 

[TickledToDeath]

One more response and I too am out.

Ask QB to send you the mail I sent to her yesterday or I will touch briefly on it now and be done with it.

The virus was only the bulk of the problem, the not getting the emails was another fiasco that my lamebrainedness magnified.
I was getting porn spams that I was blocking on an individual basis.
While doing so, a couple or actually two of the porn spams had aol and yahoo addresses. I inadverantly blocked those spams and also as did with the rest of them, blocked any address ending with @pornstar.com etc. and at the same time, blocked the spams with aol and yahoo thus blocking everything ending with aol and yahoo, like dolt. I did not catch this until I went through every blocked address noticing that I blocked all aol and yahoo addresses, which is why I did not get those mails and subsequently did not respond to them.
Massave fuck up there, Ann. Also I did not know none of my apology mails were not getting to that host mail address.

TTD

Ciao

OK...one more response and I'm out.

Yes, Ed. We DID talk. Yes, I did forgive what you did at our place. That hasn't changed. And it's not what I'm challenging.

That doesn't take away from it having happened. Nor does it excuse the fact that I went out of my way to contact people who'd complained to me to express your desire to reconcile. The only letters you ever acknowledged reciept of are those that supported you....none that challenged you. Now, you've asked Jan to repeat what I've already done? And, you're posting the same here?

Why bother if you're not going to accept responsibility and respond?The reason you state for lack of response? A virus is selectively deleting e-mails? The only thing it seems to delete are those that challenge you to grow and change. That's one heck of a virus you've got there! Can I get one of those? I'd love to never hear anything negative.

I'm sorry Ed. I TOLD you that change was a condition of my accepting you back into our home or any form of play with us. I TOLD you that responding appropriately to those you'd hurt was only a first step. Confronting your total lack of action is not being two faced. It's renewing the challenge and alerting others to a potential problem. How am I supposed to see you as willing to change in action if you won't even take that first step?

See it as you will. But, I'll sleep fine tonight. A clear conscience tends to allow that.

Ann

 

[TickledToDeath]

IN referece to thread http://www.ticklingforum.com/editpost.php?s=&action=editpost&postid=193649

I mentioned GuitatrPete in the accusation of a problem Including NJJen and him and there has been and is NO issue or problem with HIM. Just JEN at that event. Pete is a friend brother a good man and never has or will ever be a problem with him.

Sorry for including him in that rant.

TTD

Sorry Pete

 

[njjen3953]

Ed and I have taken this to private e-mail. I too am finished with this thread.

Jen

 

[dvnc]

*sigh*

TTD, sorry you don't like my observations. Sorry to see the way in which you've replied, repeatedly, to all concerned in this thread. Sorry to see your displeasure with exclusion from NEST. Also sorry you keep being finished with this thread, then coming back to it.

I don't doubt you've had positive reviews. Not the point here.

I don't CARE if you don't feel warm and fuzzy towards me. Given your treatment of me and mine, of late, it doesn't much matter to me if you don't find me a friend. No friend of mine treats me, or others, as you do.

Jen already contests your comments to me. Ann WAS the contest to your perspective. I join their statements. NEST has made a declarative decision which YOU brought out. If you're not hearing, from all this, that something you're doing is receiving a negative response, that's your choice. So is what you DO with this information.

As for whether my perspective is "fair", this ain't high school, and it ain't a popularity contest. I don't care whether every attendee of your events, and every friend know you, LIKES me for this. I care to be honest, direct, and supportive of those standing for event safety, and fully consentual play.

That your solution is to blame an email list, and not the declared behavior, is your choice. I'd not chose such.

That you forget the scores of people I have dealt with, for my events and as friends, or chose to ignor it, is also your choice. I hear and see what's told and shown to me. I respect those that told such.

Had this been a mistake, with a *friend*, I'd've known, 'cause my friends would ask for clarification, and would care what I thought. They'd know that I can simply ask the moderators here to remove my previous statement if I wish.

They'd not threaten me, or chose retaliatory acts.

The behavior reminds me of former friends, not friends. You forget your previous actions. You forget my last mail. Whether or not YOU chose to remember, you DON'T get to chose what I remember, or what my friends will hear, because of it.

You also choose to bring this out online, rather than to simply ignore such.

Your behavior, before and now, saddens me. It's not helping this community. It's all about you. Mine ain't. Mine's about the dozens of people who will gather enough courage to attend an event somewhere in the east, and whether THEY will receive what I, as a vet of hosting, having actually coined the silly term "gatherings" for our events, know to be accurate information concerning unnecessary risks.

If someone attends your events in the future, after seeing this discussion, they know better.

If you change your behavior, do feel free to mail me, as you did earlier today.

If you don't, there's ALWAYS brave folk who don't care what boundaries are crossed, and they'll find you, safe or un-safe. Some will actually FIND un-safe to be desirable. In that fashion, I've done you a service.

I've done you another service. I've not brought out why I distrust you so greatly. Push me, sir. Please.

dvnc

 

[TickledToDeath]

Definatly my LAST post in THIS thread, here is the whole scoop. Believe what you wish

You all were friends. You still could be and should be.
Here it goes:

Allow me again to explain things to you and this is the ABSOLUTE truth, you know me and I am NOT a liar. Absent minded from time to time and a bit overzealous and emotional, yes. Caught in a momentary lapse of reason from time to time, yes. A liar? NO.

For the past 3 months, probably more, my pc has been infected with a work like virus brought on by two programs I had downloaded into my system. I even posted of them in the TMF.

Precision Time....and most blamed for ....WeatherBug. Both programs, especially WeatherBug acted like a worm which multiplied itself droping and creating a collection of sub programs into my system, all of which slowly ate up bits and pieces of my whole system, including e-mail.

Slowly this went on and on until finally I started deleting programs I thought were the cause of the virus that McAffe missed.

I deleted Precision Time and WeatherBug and still the problems continued and when a search was done, I found that the deleted programs actually CAME BACK!

I deleted them several times and several times they have come back.

When I did a systemwide sweep through "search Program files" I found over a dozen sub programs created by WeatherBug. I had to completely delete every single file individually, re scan, re clean and re sweep the entire system till finally they were all purged from my computer. The same had to be done for Precision Time.

The errors were coming up causing sever damage to windows and explorer.

MSHTML.DLL and KERNEL.DLL. Both of which are very large programs within the Windows system files/programs.



{Point2}

The email fiasco.

I have made countless apologies for my overemotional,irrational action and let my emotions and frustrations get the best of me, causing a lapse of reason and very bad judgement when that infamous e-mail was sent out to way too many people.

While the mail itself was intended, the receiptients it went to was done without a thought and with my emotions and frustrations getting the best of me and fogged any rational thought until it was too late.

I was informed, in another venue other than email that folks have been trying to contact me and I did not respond to them.

I stated that I never got those emails and I did not. It took a while for someone to even let me know what it was exactly I did to offend people.

I later found that , while I was getting porn spam in masses, I blocked every porn mail I got on an individual basis to stop it from being mailed to me. After some time, over a month, maybe even two, I was told again that people have mailed me and I have chosen not to respond. Well I found out that a few of the PORN mails had come from addresses ending with AOL and YAHOO, and, dolt that I was, had inadvertantly blocked all mails ending with what ever mail addey the porn mails ended with and it turned out that a few of em' ended with AOL and yahoo so I inadvertantly blocked all AOL and Yahoo addresses. Thus that is why I never got anyones mails and subsequently did not respond back making it appear as if I was blowing everyone off(figuratively speaking). While I thought everyone was Blowing ME off(figuratively speaking).

I still have no idea who all I should be sending this apology too so, I post it here now to all concerned in the hopes that those who were (hopefully are still) friends will accept my apology and explaination and we can put this all behind us, finally.

A list of those offended and who have a problem with me would also be apprieciated so that we all can contact each other and rectify this situation.

As far as for my(and shygirls) style of play, yes we like it more intense than others' but I wish those people we have "hurt" in some way would come to US or ME and tell me what is wrong as opposed to me hearing it from someone else or some people telling me they have NO problelm with us and then telling someone else the opposite. That is NOT Cool and is two faced.

I may be too open and too honest and say too much and or to too many, but I am NOT two faced and I tell it like it is and say what I feel as well as say what I mean and mean what I say.

I expect that from anyone and everyone I know.

That is what friends and friendship is for and all about.

I know YOU should and always should be friends, understanding in this matter will be greatly apprieciated.

I am NOT a JERK and definatly NOT dangerous. That is a very cold and harsh word to use. You all should and DO know me way better than that to think or say that of me.
Thats it. I will read , if any, responses to this however I cannot explain or apologize anymore than I have. I say it and do it for and to all involved and affected.
Ciao



Thanks much

 

[TicklingDuo]

I've been unusually quiet during this whole "Gatherings" post situation, and I think it's time I weighed in with my two cents:
I think it's totally wrong of The Doors to be out touring with the former lead singer of The Cult acting like Jim Morrison. And when the hell are The Stones gonna retire?

Drew

 

[dvnc]

What? Geez, I dropped outta music news, apparently. When the hell did that start? Morrison had a way better voice and... oh, wait, you tricked me! 😛 Rascal. Derailin' the derailin' of this thread. None o' them fellers ever attended a gathering. Not that I know of, anyway.

Where's the rest of the kids wanting t'ask questions, or tell us we suck, or somethin'? Someone, other than BigJim, must wanna poke at some of us wit' a stick...

Seriously, kids, all distractions aside, Ann's original focus got sidetracked, and should return to focus on it's topic - Gatherings...open or closed events?

Questions? Comments? Remarks? Rumors?

 

[JoBelle]

Well DVNC,

To be honest, I'm in the know of this stuff and I'm even put off of posting in this thread. I think a new one might be a better idea. Anyone getting this far in reading is probably thinking they never want to have anything to do with any of us ever again.


Jo

 

[dvnc]

Hey Ann! This fine thread's your brainchild, and a good one. I second Jo's suggestion to let this one lie, and start another. Good notion, Jo!

 

[TicklingDuo]

Fine by me guys. There IS some good feedback and some good responses...thanks to Phin. for that. So, maybe the thread itself should remain? I say we lock it so as to avoid a continuation of the unfortunate sidetrack we got into. Apologies to those who were turned off by it. I'll toss up a new one.

Ann