Good for Iraq: Saddam caught!

[Haltickling]

Just heard it on the news: Saddam Hussein was caught in or near Tikrit, his hometown! Foreign correspondents report that many Iraqis are celebrating enthusiastically.

However, I don't think that this will put an end to terror attacks in Iraq or elsewhere. The US will have to take care of Saddam, and I hope they won't make him a "martyr for the Islamic cause".

Anyhow, this is good news to start a Sunday! 😎

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

Good Day, Indeed!

I agree, Hal. I think it might slow down the attacks somewhat, but won't end them. Iraq's a big country with alotta diverse factions, all vying for power. Still, depending on how Washington handles things, `tis indeed a great way to start the day!

 

[JPie1]

This is indeed good news to wake up to. But still so many evil people in this world, can we ever get the terrorism to stop, that would make a lovely new year but not likely to happen, we can only hope for peace in this world.

 

[Lazarus]

The way I see it...

Station 2 or 3 hundred us soldiers in a large circle, and let the people show Saddam just the shit he's put them thru all these years....

 

[milagros317]

The US will have to take care of Saddam, and I hope they won't make him a "martyr for the Islamic cause".

Anyhow, this is good news to start a Sunday! 😎

This is fabulous news to wake up to this Sunday. 🙂 😀 🙂

I believe that the United States should just provide security, as he is tried by Iraqi judges in an Iraqi court, confronted by Iraqi witnesses to the murders he ordered committed.

 

[TMF Jeff]

very good news!

 

[Knox The Hatter]

They're already arguing back and forth over who gets to try him. Actually, I don't think Arab street justice would be a bad idea. Tie him to the back of a pickup and drag him through the Baghdad streets with people stoning him.
I agree with everyone so far...I don't think it's going to make that much of a difference in ending the violence. That requires a commitment that I don't think the Bush Administration is willing to make yet. They may never be willing to make it...it looks like they're gonna be forced into it.

 

[MikeMike]

No matter what side of the political aisle you're on, this is great news.

Let's hope this helps to get Iraq moving in the right direction, and helps to heal some of the divisions all over the world that the events of the last year have caused.

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

Personally, though I rejoice at his capture, I'm kinda holding my breath. I suspect that this will be a sign for sleeper cells here and elsewhere to start a round of terror attacks. I hope I'm wrong!

Ann

 

[Deleted member 2452]

good news for the whole world!

not just iraq!
i saw the story on fox news this morning, during a press confrence, even the press was STANDING AND CHEERING at the news.

i hope they leave it to the iraqis to try, and punish him, their justice will be more brutle than ours in the u.s.

i have a different take on the affect of this on the fedayeen's action. now that their center piece is gone, they have less of a reason to go on fighting. remember their psychy is much different than ours.

steve

 

[Haltickling]

Saddam was only a centerpiece as long as he held the reigns tight. According to several German TV correspondents (some of them have lived in Iraq for 20 years!), only a small part of the Iraqi attacks on US troops were committed by Saddam loyalists. About 90% of the resistance comes from other Iraqi groups who never followed Saddam. Their aim is to make the US occupation so costly that it will drive them out.

Almost nobody in Iraq accepts the puppet administration of exilants, installed by the US. Only the Kurds are fully on US side, the Sunni are strictly against it, and the Shiites are fence-sitting: In a real democratic election (one man, one vote), Iraq will be dominated by Shiites who are about 60% of the population. However I can't imagine the US to tolerate the Shiites forming an Islamic Iraq after the Iranian model. And if this majority gets overruled by the occupants, their riots will dwarf the present terrorism to a picnic!

I'm afraid that this country will have to be divided into 3 semi-independent sectors with equal rights, their own elections and leaders, then peace may have a chance in Iraq. I'm not very confident that the present US administrations will allow this to happen. It counters their own strategy too much,

 

[red indian]

Before we all start getting to pious.........

.......lets not forget both the U.K. and U.S. armed and bank rolled this snake during the Iran/Iraq war and that he gassed the kurds (his own people) while still a western ally. If we are so keen for this guy to face justice, dont you think those who backed him should also have to answer to someone?

 

[tbear01]

While I think it's great he's caught, I really wonder how much impact it will have. His supporters will continue to fight, and kill even their own to blame the U.S. To them it is a secular, not political war, and unfortunately Americans have this strange habit of not learning from their experiences. We helped put the Taliban in, to fight against the Russians, We helped put Hussein in, we thought Iraq would roll over when the war there was "officially" over, and when the first attack on the WTC didn't work we assumed it wouldn't happen again. I think we need to understand the resolve of these people, and not think because we have superority with weapons we will automatically win, and understand that until we learn to think like they do and why, we will continue to, from time to time expose our bare butts to these people and be surprised when someone shoots us there..

😕

 

[Krokus]

Some of the best news I've heard all year.

 

[giantfan121262]

man, this is great!!!

I think this is awesome news to wake up to. This is something that should have been done during Desert Storm. My biggest fear is that there is another aspiring dictator waiting in the wings and he will pull the same shit that Sadamm was during his term.

These guys have only one method to their madness, to lead by fear, terrorism, and intimidation tatics. It won't put an end to terrorism because it runs so deep, but this is great news for the entire world, and I don't want to put a damper on something I, personally, have been waiting for since Desert Storm.

 

[qjakal]

Re: Before we all start getting to pious.........

.......lets not forget both the U.K. and U.S. armed and bank rolled this snake during the Iran/Iraq war and that he gassed the kurds (his own people) while still a western ally. If we are so keen for this guy to face justice, dont you think those who backed him should also have to answer to someone?

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.......

I'd get off the high horse red. Unless perhaps you believe that Saddam took an opinion poll among his "allies" before he acted, it's time to place blame squarely where it belongs and not fog the issue with who was being politically useful at every moment in history. I'd like to see us cut ties, both financial and diplomatic with quite a few regimes and actively work towards their downfall in this world, but I'm not the Foreign Minister or even a lowly ambassador...lucky for them. Apparently that's not how "business" is conducted in the world though...damn shame. Let him rot in Iraq and be judged by those he wronged for those decades. I doubt he'll be around long. Can't believe he didn't have the balls to shoot himself....

Q

 

[JoBelle]

To be honest, I expected some kind of Jack Ruby incident.

The only down side of this is that his face has been flashed over the screen (and name on the radio) so much that my 6 year noticed and deserved an explanation. Try telling a first grader what "crimes against humanity" are. To put it in childspeak, I told him he was very bad man who did very bad things to people and killed some others and that they kept talking about it because so many people are happy that he was captured.

It brought me back to earth when he said, "So what is he going to do to make up for all the bad things he did?" I tried ineffectively to explain that the world has all sorts of policemen who are going to try to make sure he pays back for what he did wrong. My son astutely pointed out, "But no one can fix dead people, Mom."

Nope, no one can. He asked me if he was the president of the country we were at war with. (His best friend's dad is deployed from the local air force base so the word Iraq is personal in a way.) I told him indeed, that was the same man. And my child in his sweetness said, "Well, if he was that bad and hurt people, I guess a war was ok."

UGHHHHHHHHH I hate the fucking world. People suck. Just hang the fucking bastard and be done with it. Where's a renegade soldier when you need one??????????!!!???!?!?!

 

[ShiningIce]

.......lets not forget both the U.K. and U.S. armed and bank rolled this snake during the Iran/Iraq war and that he gassed the kurds (his own people) while still a western ally. If we are so keen for this guy to face justice, dont you think those who backed him should also have to answer to someone?

Couldnt agree more.

 

[Krokus]

Yes, red does have a point.

 

[qjakal]

Relevance...

So you'd hold countries responsible for the actions of all other countries that they deliver foreign aid to? Laughable idea...there wouldn't be a single "innocent" among the world powers. Shall we try them all in a Swedish court? This is the same logic that lands parents in jail rather than the offspring who commit the crimes....

Q

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

AFA the debate over who's responsible in giving aid, etc., Red DOES have a point. As much as I hate to say it, we're often our own worst enemy. I'm not sure what should be done, if anything, in the way of punishment. But, I think the least we should do is have a very thorough and honest review of how the CIA and other agencies that have used these guys in the past work. It's too late for the "Gee, what have we done?" comments that always come when they turn the weapons we give them back on us. But, it's nver too late to get off our high horses and swallow our pride enough to admit our own culpability in many of the things that have come back to bite us in the ass. Maybe if we took a truly honest look at things we can avoid repeating them.

Ann

 

[JoBelle]

Re: Relevance...

So you'd hold countries responsible for the actions of all other countries that they deliver foreign aid to? Laughable idea...there wouldn't be a single "innocent" among the world powers. Shall we try them all in a Swedish court? This is the same logic that lands parents in jail rather than the offspring who commit the crimes....

Q

EXACTLY!

And that's only with public knowledge. As far as we know, the Somoan islands, New Zealand, Spain and Costa Rica couild all be dealing dirty under the political table with every person in the former USSR. 🙄 Seems the whole world is losing its mind when people think the outcome of a lunatic dictator's actions should be shared by countries giving aid.

Let us get a grip, eh?

 

[qjakal]

Hindsight and holy cow

AFA the debate over who's responsible in giving aid, etc., Red DOES have a point. As much as I hate to say it, we're often our own worst enemy. I'm not sure what should be done, if anything, in the way of punishment. But, I think the least we should do is have a very thorough and honest review of how the CIA and other agencies that have used these guys in the past work. It's too late for the "Gee, what have we done?" comments that always come when they turn the weapons we give them back on us. But, it's nver too late to get off our high horses and swallow our pride enough to admit our own culpability in many of the things that have come back to bite us in the ass. Maybe if we took a truly honest look at things we can avoid repeating them.

Ann

With all due respect Ms Ann, utilizing the superpower of hindsight to view history leads one to the erroneous conclusion that we can avoid what are obvious mistakes when reviewed a decade later....but if it actually was possible I'd be all for it and take a few swats for past mistakes. Each situation involves assessing the current "best" intelligence available and working within a finite time framework to make the decision that impacts the situation most favorably.

Where we go wrong is our unwillingness to take a strong stand despite world opinion and do what we just did...remove a monstrous regime that has shown itself to be incapable of behavior that meets anyones idea of civilized. A few more incidents and actions like this and you'll find a lot less gassing and atrocities happening, because the consequences will have been demonstrated in a consistent fashion. Foreign aid might stand a chance of being used for its intended purposes.

If the U.N. could just become a tenth of what it has the potential to represent...sigh.

Q

 

[Haltickling]

Re: Hindsight and holy cow

Where we go wrong is our unwillingness to take a strong stand despite world opinion and do what we just did...

What? Lie to the world as well as to lie to their own population? Thanks but no thanks! 😡

Have you ever thought what would have happened if Hitler hadn't been financed by quite a lot of US families (most of them living in Virginia and neighborhood)? Did it ever cross your mind that the Taliban would never have gained power in Afghanistan, that the Iraq/Iran war wouldn't have happened at all, that Monsters like Baby Doc, Pinochet or Pol Pot had never been able to maintain control for so long, if... yes, if the USA hadn't meddled somehow, under the veil of "giving aid"?

Think what you like, but foreign policy has never been a special US strength. They usually behave like an elephant in a porcelain shop! (I'm speaking of politicians and military leaders, not of US citizens in general.)

 

[red indian]

Dont get me wrong Q........

....I am no Saddam supporter, and anyone who has read my posts will know that most of my political sense is somewhere to the right of center. So lets not run away with the idea that I am some kind of bleeding heart liberal.

Saddams crimes are well documented, especially so once he was no longer a western ally, as a result of his miscalculation over the Kuwait invasion.

I am just as pleased as anyone else that Saddam has been captured, it was vital for the stability of Iraq that he was caught. Now the rebuilding can (hopefully) gain some momentum.

Q says I should "get off the high horse" well, that was the whole point of my statement. I was OFF the high horse, and admitting that my countries government and the U.S. government should acknowledge the part they have played in supporting this animal over many years.

I realise this may not be palatable, and may spoil the party for you, but it is the truth. I dont see this as "fogging the issue" although it may be unwelcome. We gave the child the toys and it played with them.


Q says that maybe Saddam should have "taken an apinion poll of his allies before acting" which I assume was a joke, but the bigger joke is Saddam knew he did not need to bother with such formalities, as he could rely on the west to look the other way while he butchered and gassed his own people.

Even after Saddam became "western enemy number one" and we turfed him out of Kuwait, we encouraged Sunis and other large anti Saddam factions to rise up against him, which they did, we did nothing to help and stood back while he slaughtered them.....AGAIN!!!

Q takes the view that I am being rather petty in pointing out any connection between the murderous reign of terror that was the Saddam regime and those who have backed him financially, militarilly and politically. He feels that what Saddam did was his responsibillity, and you can not blame those who gave him aid.

Assuming that the war against Saddam was a war against terror, then I have a problem with this argument. The people who carried out the 9/11 attacks all died carrying out their mission. Why, therefore, following Q,s logic do we bother to persue the people who backed the 9/11 attackers? we should "put the blame squarely where it belongs" surely?

The current view is that Saddam backed many terror groups, financially, militarilly and politically and that although he was not personally involved in any of these attacks, he was clearly giving them aid, and thats why we attacked him. But Q thinks its wrong to go after the people who give out the aid and that we should "put the blame squarely where it belongs"

So you can see I have a problem here! I dont have the answers, and I am not being smugly rhetorical in any way.