Hang John Walker

[Strelnikov]

John Walker, the American Taliban, was in Federal Court today for the first time. His lawyers are already trying to spin the case as a good but impressionable boy who was misled by bad companions. His mother gave a tearful speech. His Paki teacher said that he was a good man, studious, quiet, kept to himself. Naturally, the left-wing National Public Radio gave them a sympathetic hearing.

Friends, we're talking about a grown man. Others his age are supporting families, or protecting their fellow citizens by serving in the U. S. Armed Forces. He must be held responsible for his part in the war against his fellow citizens.

So far, Walker has not been charged with a capital crime. That's a mistake I hope the Government will soon rectify. If the Arabs we've scooped up deserve the noose (and they do), this bastard deserves it because he's one of ours.

While we're at it, we ought to hang his parents too. They evidently spent less effort guiding him through his teen years than I would spend house-training a puppy. It's no surprise that they live in liberal Marin County, California. People there are so open minded that their brains fall out.

You Brits, if you want your three Talibs back to try at home, that's fine with me. You've earned the right. The UK did its share of the diplomatic heavy lifting, and military effort to the extent of your capabilities. But don't tell us how to deal with the others. That's our business.

Strelnikov

 

[Haltickling]

Objection

Sorry Strelnikov, but I must object. How the US treats its prisoners is the world's business, according to the UN Human Rights Bill and/or the Geneva Convention. You are not free to treat them as unfair as you like, however unfair they may have treated you.

 

[JoBelle]

I believe it made the most sense to me that the prisoners "were going to be treated humanely, but surely not made comfortable." They are clothed, fed culturally appropriate meals, sheltered and allowed to practice their religion of choice. Even if they are kicked in the head every hour on the hour, they are STILL being treated better than the people they abused.

I trust that most people reading this particular thread will realize that it is most insensitive to argue with an American who just watched THOUSANDS of his fellow countrymen **and peoples from many OTHER countries** die at the hands of this particular group of men. To ask that they not be tossed into a pool of hungry sharks is pushing it.

These men aren't prisoners due to a light crime. They didn't stick up the local convenience store. They are part of a terrorist organization that is repulsed by everything modern society and civilized people hold dear. They are murderers of men, women, children, and the ederly in their own countries as well as ours. They are rapist....of the physical body and the spirits of a generation of young people who lost their educations! The list of atocities are endless. I personally think they should be treated ACCORDINGLY!~

As far as John Walker,

If I hear one more newscast saying he "Looks like a scared boy" I will completley lose my mind. I'm so enraged that I can barely form a complete sentence or THOUGHT! This by-birth-American was a self-proclaimed member of a group that not only killed thousands, but orphaned so many children that I cry thinking about it. HE IS NOT A CHILD! HE IS A GROWN MAN! Hell, he's not much younger than Timothy McVeigh was when he blew up the Federal building!!!!! Where is he now? Chew on that one for a little while.

OK, I think it's pretty clear my thoughts on this....I'll go back to being sweet again.
Jo

 

[MadKalnod]

Where's Jack Ruby when you need him...

As for the Taliban prisoners, not only are they being treated better than the people they murdered, they are also treated better than they could ever hope to receive in Afghanistan under their own regime. I freely admit that my Shadow Side recommends the use of ovens and "showers without water" for these criminals rather than comfy prison cells, where they are free to plot escape and the next round of Terror attacks.

 

[venray]

Re: Objection

Sorry Strelnikov, but I must object. How the US treats its prisoners is the world's business, according to the UN Human Rights Bill and/or the Geneva Convention. You are not free to treat them as unfair as you like, however unfair they may have treated you.

Sorry Hal, But I must object to your objection. Usually I do not get involved in political threads, but this subject is a rather personal one to me.

The rules of the Geneva convention were set up to assure the fair treatment of prisoners of war. These "people" committed acts of terror
killing the innocent for the sole purpose of getting attention and by
doing so, gain the support of all islamic nations to start a war with the western world.

This is not a conventional (if there is such a thing ) war, but an action to put a stop to terror world wide.

It is my opinion that we should not have even taken prisoners alive and I believe that the only reason that we did so was to try and obtain needed information.

These prisoners are being treated more fairly than the Afghani people
that they ruled over with guns and terror. They are being treated more fairly than our men and women would have been treated had the situation been reversed.
To address the subject of this thread, however, in the matter of John Walker, well, he should definitely be put to death. He has worked with, aided, and abedded a group which has committed many (not just one) terroristic acts against his homeland,and like it or not that spells treason in my book and he SHOULD pay the price.

Strel is 100 percent right!!!! We SHOULD hang him..

(sorry for the ramble..give a guy master status and suddenly he thinks he can type..LOL)

Ven

 

[Marauder]

Ovens? Showers without water? That's not funny at all, MK. What do you propose? Do you want to turn away from human rights and become the next fourth Reich, just because you happen to have nukes? I always admired the US of A for the most part, but this cowboy sentiment of frontier justice is a major throwback. If your country turns to prejudices barbarism against prisoners WHO ARE NOW HELPLESS, you do the same thing they did. One of the reasons officially stated for invading Afganistan, besides the horrible attack on the WTC, was the violation of every human right the Taliban regime committed. Don't become like them. Don't become a proof that power corrupts. Don't make the world perceive you as hangin' judges and torturers. Otherwise the tide will turn, as it's already doing, and you will become the new bad guys. And while the US of A could care less what the world thinks of them, it would be sad to see the image of the number one free country on this planet besmudged by petty, hateful lust for revenge.

 

[Slappy McGee]

I say just give him one year, but put him in general population 🙂

that should take care ofthings pretty quickly.

 

[MadKalnod]

At ease, Marauder. I wasn't joking, but I wasn't making a serious suggestion, either.

What I did say was that I admitted that there was a piece of me which secretly wanted to give in to that rage and hate, deep in the dark places of my soul that I don't normally talk about at parties. We all have a Shadow, as Jung called it. I recall you mentioning your own Shadow's nature on the Consensual/Non-Consensual debate thread around Christmas time. Yours manifests as a desire for sadistic sexual dominance, even to the extreme of rape and murder fantasies. Well, mine expresses itself as a lust for horrifically brutal vengeance against the Wicked.

Yes, I have dark desires, but I don't act on them. I don't seriously call for others to enact them. As you said, you may take pleasure in written fantasies of S&M Torture upon unwilling subjects, but you would release such a victim in a heartbeat if you found one in real life. By writing these words, I take those Shadow feelings and bind them into the form of a pattern of electrons somewhere on a server's memory, where they can't hurt anyone in reality. By doing this, I cast a light on my Shadow, dispelling it so that it will remain just that: A Shadow without substance.

My apologies if I hadn't made that clearer in the earlier post. I guess I just trusted that people would recall my use of the term Shadow and my advice about it from previous threads. No offense was ever intended. Are we okay with this now, Marauder?

 

[P.H. Tickler]

Stupidity to that degree SHOULD be a crime

Did this john walker ever renounce his U.S. Citizenship before shacking up with the taliban? At the very least, treason should stick. As far as prisoner care goes, you can't hold it against the world to want to know, after all, the military TOOK prisoners even though we all know the current state of weapons technology is such that we didn't HAVE to take prisoners (because there would be none left). The REAL injustice comes when the target countries get REBUILT, what message does THAT send to the next bunch of whackos planning the next big attack? How much money do you think osama bin lardass is gonna have to pay to rebuild the WTC or the Pentagon?
As far as the parents of john walker go, if you hold them accountable, then the UN should also hold osama's dad responsible, God knows HE has enough money to at least defray some costs.
The 4th reich comments would be situational... I fortunately lost no family in the WTC/Pentagon tragedies, so it would be hard for me to be all gung-ho for genocide, BUT if it were MY wife and kids and they didn't get out, OR if my brother was carrying one of those anthrax letters and died.... I'd VOLUNTEER to go over ,fire up the ovens, and crack open the cyclon B canisters... But I pray daily to never be put in that position. (or at least if it strikes My family, let ME be the one to die, because I couldn't bear to be the survivor)

 

[JoBelle]

Curious....


"Petty hateful lust for revenge?"
You're damn right...and if that makes me a bad person, then so be it. I won't apologize for that. Maybe my views will change when the horror, pain, and all that goes with it fades a little, but right now, I don't see that happeneing. I did lose a friend in the WTC. I take this very personally along with a LOT of other people.

There is a quick jump to point a tsktsk-ing finger at the US for handling the mentioned "prisoners of war" is a less than glorious manner. What is it we're SUPPOSED to do with them? Just let them go? Treat them like they are victims of circumstance? I hate it when people say, "Well, I'm not sure what is right, but what you're doing is just wrong."

GRRRRRR...JO

 

[asutickler]

Re: Objection

...How the US treats its prisoners is the world's business, according to the UN Human Rights Bill and/or the Geneva Convention. You are not free to treat them as unfair as you like, however unfair they may have treated you.

As I understand the Geneva convention, one cannot hold both criminal and POW status simultaneously. In an instance where someone is both, their criminal status supersedes their POW status. This is why American GI's who are sent into combat are advised, should they be captured and then escape within enemy territory, not to commit any civilian crimes at all, if humanly possible.

The way I see the folks in Cuba is like this: All captured Al-Qaida members are civilian criminals, as per the group's conspiracy to attack the WTC and Pentagon. They are accessories to mass murder, just as guilty as the people who committed the actual acts, and, IMHO, should be sent to meet their suicidal bretheren as soon as possible.

John Walker is also a criminal, not a POW. He fought against the US, and attempted to kill our soldiers. Why he hasn't been charged with treason yet is beyond me. "Frightened young man" my ass. I'm sure every traitor prior to him was frightened, too- but only after being caught.

At best (for them), the Taliban are POW's. But only while they remain in US custody. When they're sent back to Afghanistan they will doubtlessly face criminal charges from the new government, and I hope that their juries (if the Afghan system works that way) are 100% female. Hopefully they'll make all of the ex-Talibaners wear those "Burqua" things on their way to the gallows.

In closing, hang John Walker, hang every member of al-Qaida we find, and send all the Taliban home to their newly-empowered formerly-oppressed population.


ASUTickler

 

[drkjedi458]

the america we live in now is beyond question a different america but dammit it is still america. everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. that includes jihad johnny walker. now if hes found guilty and i dont see anyting to suggest he'll get off...i hope they string him up slow and let him do an air dance. but suppose he does get off somehow...some loophole or technicality...then what? hes still a dead man. everybody and their dog knows who he is and everybody and their dog wants his hide. if he did get off id be willing to bet that hed never make it a mile from the courthouse. theres nowhere that the guy could go where hed be safe. who needs jack ruby...joe average is the one he needs to watch out for. as for his parents i strongly disagree with the comment strelnikov made that they should be strung up to. no matter what their son did they've commited no crime and are no doubt suffering. i think their stupid for letting him go over there in the first place but if stupidity was a capitol offence we'd all be dead cause theres nobody who hasnt made stupid mistakes. anyway...i say hang him...AFTER hes found guilty

 

[JoBelle]

Reckon he decided to withdraw his confession after he realized he was going to have to live to step foot on American soil again and that he wouldn't be a martyr???

"I did it...let me sign the paper. Whew...what do you mean I'm going home? Damn, no virgins for me? I AM INNOCENT!!! POOR ME!! Call my lawyer....have this confession thrown out!"Gotta love a "fair" judicial system.

 

[Longbaugh]

That crap that Walker's lawyer is spenting out is stomach turning. I think Walker is a battle feild combatant who knew full and well what he was doing. Time for him to take resposibility for his actions and face the music. He's lucky he's getting the trail that he is and that the Marines didn't kill him back in Afghanistan. As for the prisoners in camp X-ray, they are being treated just fine. Not even going to waste breath discussing that issue. Don't know why it's even an issue.

 

[Marauder]

It was not my intention to condemn anyone for feeling rage and hatred towards those who wronged them.
MadKalnod: I didn't think you wanted to act on your desire.
JoBelle: Feeling vengeful is human, and it doesn't make you a bad person.
In general, I wanted to point out that you, as a nation, are a civilized people. Acting upon the urge to avenge the wrongs that have been commited against you in likeness of the perpetrators would, however, drag you down to their level. It's not necessary. You won. Treat them like every common criminal and be done with it. If the prisoners are treated badly, it will only fuel the fires of their supporters. It also instils them with more importance than they deserve. The same goes for Walker. I don't see why his case has to be so up-front in the media. If it were downplayed and done with quickly and efficiently, it would send a sign out to the world. A sign that says - "We're still going strong. You haven't crushed us. You haven't changed our way of life. That craven attack on innocent civilians didn't gain you anything. We, as a nation, are unaffected by your attempts to assault us. America is unfazed by you."
I'm not on the anti-American side here. I firmly believe that the perpetrators should be punished. But, if I had a say in it, I'd show them the contempt I feel by not making a big issue out of their punishment. By treating them like any other criminal, I'd show the world just how little I think of them and their so-called 'holy war'. I'm sorry that my first post came across as an attack on your nation, your way of dealing with things, and your personal beliefs. I'm not American. I wasn't attacked. It's none of my business, really. It just makes me cringe to see all that publicity heaped upon those bastards, and how suddenly the USA is viewed as a nation of war-criminals by the same people who were so concerned about the Taliban's human-rights infringements.
Please don't feel attacked or criticized by my posts. That is not my intention. I apologize.

 

[shark]

*sob*they cut all their hair and *sob* put them in shackles and *sob*
didn't provide air conditioned cells....*sniff* it's so hot in Cuba and *sniff* the US is so mean.....
These assholes should be made to dig the graves for their al-queda love interests and then be sent to New York to clean that mess up.Maybe between the two they might learn something.

 

[qjakal]

To Marauder...

The problem is that we are an emotional people, who get overly excited about things...baseball...nude women...music groups...and a great number of other fairly trivial daily occurences. However, once fully attuned to what we perceive as "injustice" and geared up, we are still exactly what we have always been...a warrior nation that has managed to remain relatively peaceful because we are comfortable and well fed and prosperous. But....to expect us to bottle that "genie of rage" once unleashed in this short a time period isn't fair. We know we won...but we don't ever expect to do anything BUT win, because we'll fight like cornered wolves until we either win or die. The rest of the world may point to our superior technology and air strength, the density of our supply lines and military expertise all they wish, but the simple facts are that we would have beaten our enemy if you had plunked down equal numbers of us in a desert all buck naked and empty handed. We fight and win because we fight for OURSELVES...for our mothers and wives, daughters and sons, homes and dignity, and we WANT to win so damn badly that much of the rest of the world cannot begin to fathom the depths of the competitiveness that burns inside the average American soldier or citizen. Sorry if this sounds like outright bragging, but its the unvarnished truth from the inside of our culture.....and it's NOT all good...we are scaring ourselves a bit right now with the things we once again find ourselves doing and imagining. Don't ever think we aren't showing restraint already...may whatever gods these fools worship take pity on them should they ever get caught by the wives, mothers and daughters of those lost in NYC. I said it at the beginning of this war, and in a few years I'll still be saying it...they lost when they pissed off the women of this country as badly as they managed to do...their fate was sealed and done right at that moment. More later mate, I need to cool off...adrenaline rush. Catch ya in the international forum later, btw! Q

 

[drkjedi458]

al quedas a completly different story....they can thank their version of god that their not dealing with someone like the old roman empire or theyd be thrown to the lions which as far as im concerned is what should happen to them anyway...those poor misunderstood babies...if they dont like the treatment their getting in cuba send them to the state prison in mcalester oklahoma and see how they like that...theyd wish they were in with the lions instead

 

[JoBelle]

Re: ALSO to Marauder

. You're a voice of conscience, one I was glad to hear in the din, because some of the things said here were reprehensible IMHO, excuses aside, and they needed to be addressed.

Scot,
The other voice that speaks here, the one you've labled reprehensible, is the one that is "screaming from the grave." If you want to get dramatic, we'll do so. It's the voice of the mothers who died who will never see their children, their babies again. The husbands who will never come home to hold their families. The children on board the planes...yes, there were children on them! These people were friends to people like me. These are the words of lives that were cut painfully and horribly thanks to the people you want to pity.

You call them EXCUSES! "Excuses" is an attempt to dis-credit what are actually very profound human emotions. Do you think thousands of people burning to death is not something that should enrage a Nation??? You've no heart if you can't understand the emotions that have been expressed here.

Marauder,
As hard as it is for me to personally see past the pure surreal nature of what's happened....I do understand what you were saying. It hits home, but I do understand. Thank you for sharing it...At least you give validity to the reasons behind those who spoke up in repsonse to your words.

Q, you're right on hon. RIGHT on!
Jo.

 

[Nebula45]

I was under the impression that a POW was a soldier of an enemy state who laid down arms, ceased hostilities, and submitted to the power who captured them. Now, first of all the Taliban was never offically recognized by the UN or any other country (save Pakistan and a few others), so they are NOT soldiers of an enemy state. Second of all, with threats to kill an American before they leave Camp X-Ray, they have not ceased hostilities while in custody. So, I don't understand how they can be classified as POW's. **Since they are not POW's, as far as I'm concerned, they are still enemies of the United States, ergo, we would be within the law to kill them. If liberals can find loopholes for their causes and ideas, so can I.** That's just my understanding though. Maybe someone who knows better could enlighten me?

As for John Walker, I think my father put it best: "He wouldn't have made it out of Afghanistan."

**Added in: in my haste, I forgot to finish my point**

 

[WallStreet]

Don't forget the point

Let's not forget the whole point of this thread. Hang John Walker. I agree. Hang him now. Hang him right now.
Anyone who is active in an orginization that condones crashing planes into buildings and setting off bombs in public places deserves to be hung, as well as thrown into ovens. I'm not talking about the 4th reich. The Jews didn't attack Hitler first. He thought in his own demented way that he was sterilizing. The Al-Quada should be thrown into ovens just for the sheer terror and pain of it.
As far as them not having showers, I thought those dirtbags didn't shower anyway.
Are they really suffering in prison. They've gone from living in the dead of winter in some cave, to where they are now living in a complex in sunny Cuba. You might say "but they're in jail". That jail is probably more comfortable than the puddle of goat piss that they were used to sleeping on.
Imagine one of us commiting a crime, and for the punishment you are sent to live at the Waldorf Astoria for 10 years. That is the equivelent of what we're doing with the Al-Quada prisoners.
They don't like the conditions? Tough Shit! We're not talking about the captured army of another country, we're talking about members of a terrorist organization. As for the Taliban, they were warned that if they harbored terrorists that they would be treated like terrorists. They made their own choice.
God Bless the U$A!

 

[venray]

I'm not American. I wasn't attacked. It's none of my business, really. .

Wrong friend...You may not be American, but all who believe as strongly in freedom and the rights of others as you oviously do were attacked on 9/11. There is no need to appologize for expressing your beliefs. That's what the freedom that we hold so dear is all about.🙂

 

[Myriads]

Civilized nations do not execute sentients.

Vesting the power to kill in a state elevates the state to a status that puts it above the people that form the state. It allows the state to remove what should be the unquestionable basic human right to life.

Vesting the power to kill in the state sets a precident for the state to infringe upon other basic human rights. After all, if the state can kill, everything else is pretty trivial.

It matters not what the accused did. No matter how horrid. No matter how vile. They remain human, and their right to life should not be abridged.

Kill them is the simple answer. The one that involves no work or reflection. It asks for nothing more then judgement based in revenge. It's the Red Queen screaming "Off with their heads".

Better to put them in a place where they can be studied and learned from. Someplace that allows us to remember the faces of evil, and talk to them so we don't forget.

Myriads

 

[qjakal]

And yet...

I could easily sleep well tonight knowing they were dead Myriads...that they wouldn't ever ever have the chance to kill and hate and terrorize again. Why should they be allowed the privelege and dignity of life when they have denied it to so many others, who all unknowingly "dared" to be at work or in other parts of the world, be shopping or riding a bus? You claim vesting the state with the power to kill is evil...I say.."WE ARE THE STATE"...and that there is a level of evil that should NOT be tolerated, despite good intentions and well meaning theories and sympathy for the still living. I say to you and the rest who in all good conscience believe that no life should be wasted...TOO LATE! these are the people who have wasted others lives...they have forfeited their human status and have become inhuman creatures who are NOT of our people. Delude yourself that they are human because of their appearance, but examine their actions in light of what you have espoused as your set of beliefs...haven't they violated the very precept you have chosen to elevate..."thou shalt not kill?". You are a well spoken and well meaning man, I am sure Myriads, but at times there is only the final "cure" that comes to us all....they have forsaken humanity, and their behavior condemns them to their fate. Q

 

[JoBelle]

All things work in THEORY Myraids. Unfortunately, this is real life we're discussing.

Sadly, this discussion revolves around people whose basic function of existence was to TAKE LIFE. "Better to put them in a place where they can be studied and learned from. Someplace that allows us to remember the faces of evil, and talk to them so we don't forget." That's an interesting thought. What have we to learn from lunatics with no regard for life itself? Would you have tossed Stalin and Hitler in a jail cell and psychoanalyzed them? Are you suggesting that by eliminating this element, we are somehow creating a stance of equality with them? That's an argument I've struggled with on my own. My answer? No. The first time a creature raised a fist to protect itself, this process began. I think this is more than simple revenge. I view this as one aspect of self preservation.

This is a surprise even to me. I look at these "humans" and I do not see entities worthy of life. I see blackness that TOOK life. They are murderers. Self-proclaimed by the doctrine that they follow. Evil in this form will not be forgotten if we TRIED to push it to the back of our thoughts.

My question is this, What is the measure of a life? As soon as you imprison these men, their lives have ended. What right have you to cage a person any more than you do to execute one? What right have you to lord laws of your choosing over another man any more than ending his life. You've effectively stated that it is acceptable to control another man's life, but not to physically end it. That confuses me. You have taken away his very presense on the planet. One would argue that prison was thereby punishment enough. Prison, where you are clothed, fed, medicated, as if you were a baby in the crook of society's arm. This is punishment for mass murder? I have a difficult time hearing someone say that people should not be held accountable for their actions. They have created a situation. Cause and Effect. We are now in the latter of the two events. This is not an issue of varying degrees. This is cut and dry..life and death.

If this is the walk we have chosen to take ---jail time for those responsible----we should have simply shrugged and said, "Ah, well...clean up the tower, pentagon, and airplane rubble, try not to step on the dead bodies, and go about your business," acting as if nothing happened.

"Civilized nations do not execute sentients." The only other option is to let a man be completely free. Or in essense, you've ended his life already. So we either execute them, or turn them into fat little lab rats whose very existence becomes a leech to the lives that could be helped in place of the preservation of murderers. ARGHHHHHHH....that is so much more respectful of life????


I will never understand some people.