I hate George Bush

[theallknowing1]

Re: LOL What a bunch of BULLSHIT..

Tron:Bush IS a qualified fighter pilot. You don't become one of those without having some brains AND Guts.

My response:How can you be a qualified fighter pilot without any TRAINING

Tron:Check the vote count again
The system of elections in the US was specifically designed AND RATIFIED by the people so the electoral college decided because quite frankly the Average American isn't really smart enough to elect a leader..

My response: Yes it was Ratified over 200 YEARS AGO. Things do change, generally for the better. Or do you think still think slavery was a good idea too.
Hussein died the first night of the war, Bin Laden died November of 2001. You'll never find either. All you'll see is these "current video tapes"

My response: Those are some interesting "facts". Strange how nobody else has them.

Tron:American unilateralism is a good thing for the world.. The last time a country did things in her own interests there was peace for almost 200 years.. (pax Brittanica)

My Response: Hmm Pax Britanica, barely a memory. However much more memorable is all of their colonies revolting and changing them from "The Sun Never Sets on The British Empire" to "The Sun Sets on the British 'Empire' every 15 Minutes" Oh well, If thats what you call progress.

Tron:I pay almost 45K in taxes a year. You don't see me bitching. I want to know WHY because I make more money that I have to pay more taxes than those who don't

My response: If you say so....

Tron:Uh you need to learn how economics work. What the current administration does will not matter. Economics are based on what happened 8 to 10 years ago. Clinton was helped by the Reagan Administration. Bush is paying for the clinton Administration.

My response: Odd, thats not what most economists say. According to them 9/11 was directly responsibly for TRILLIONS of dollars in economic loss. But of course, Tron must know something they don't

Bush needs to decide who is next. I figure either Syria,, or France.

My response: You think its a good idea to start the FIRST WAR involving Democracy vs Democracy in 187 years?! I don't.

Tron:Just because someone has ties to racist people does not mean he/she is racist themselves. To use an analogy, everyone here knows Haltickling, yet no one asks him how many Jews he's gassed today do we?? We don't because we know it's ludicrous to think he engages in OR condones this activity, yet a generation ago his country gassed 6 million of them.

My response: IF YOU CHOOSE MEMBERS OF YOUR CABINET WHO ARE RACIST YOU MOST CERTAINLY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS WHEN THEY ARE IN OFFICE WITH YOU.

Tron:Man I do get a luagh out of some of the loonies and idiots who come here 🙂

My Response:Well if anyone has any points they can post WITH valid evidence, Id love to hear them.

 

[BigJim]

Re: Re: LOL What a bunch of BULLSHIT..

My response: IF YOU CHOOSE MEMBERS OF YOUR CABINET WHO ARE RACIST YOU MOST CERTAINLY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS WHEN THEY ARE IN OFFICE WITH YOU.


My Response:Well if anyone has any points they can post WITH valid evidence, Id love to hear them.

Darn, how did you get so eloquent and make those points before me? 🙁😀😛

I agree with all of them TAK. Nicely put.

 

[Iggy pop]

Yes, George Bush is a spoiled brat. Yes, he was indeed a male cheerleader(I saw that piece of information on the Biography channel) Yes, his father made a deal to get him from going to Vietnam. But that is just how things go when your father is powerful poltician. Michael More is just as big if not a bigger idiot than George Bush. It's nice to have assholes on both side on the political spectrum.

 

[BigJim]

Yes, George Bush is a spoiled brat. Yes, he was indeed a male cheerleader(I saw that piece of information on the Biography channel) Yes, his father made a deal to get him from going to Vietnam. But that is just how things go when your father is powerful poltician. Michael More is just as big if not a bigger idiot than George Bush. It's nice to have assholes on both side on the political spectrum.

It's also good to remember that many big-wigs pulled deals to stop their sons going to Vietnam.
It's also nice to know that knobbers are on both sides. Venray for instance, is one of the nicest and most reasonable men I've ever met. He's also a Republican.
Moore is a Democrat, but a complete knobshine, even if he does dig up good stuff about Dubya.

Now me, I'm neither Democrat or Republican. Oh shit, now I'm confused. What the hell does that make me, apart from English?

 

[His Divine Shadow]

An Independent, silly. Unless you're in the Green party or something.

 

[BigJim]

An Independent, silly. Unless you're in the Green party or something.

Independant? Ya mean I'm the Ross Perot? 🙁 Okay, now I'm pissed off.

 

[avethibaltus]

Hate?

It is indeed a disaster for a native Texan to have to watch the President of the United States, also a Texan, give a speech beside say the King of Jordan or President of Pakistan and quickly discover that both of these foreigners, for whom the English language is, at the least their second of many languages, speak much more understandably and coherently than Dubya. Even (President) Blair makes the USP look like a numbskull.

I do however believe that it is not a good thing to express hatred for someone we do not really even know. We, at least the southerners among us, should be thankful that he has finally righted the wrongs of the Civil War. Tommy Franks (former classmate of Barbara Bush if my information is correct) and Jay Garner are both good ol' boys from Dixie who obviously have firm control of the Army and Occupation Forces. Just think of all those dark skinned folks over there working for practically nothing to keep their "coalition" masters from having to pay fair market value for gasoline. And if any of the others give us trouble, we'll invade them too - go get em Dubya! The south has risen again!

If anyone ever doubted that the USP was a figure head, put in place by a lot of powerful, intelligent people to give We The People something to shoot at, just eyeball the current situation and note that Pinocchio had more grey matter between his ears than our draft dodging, drunk driving, fearless leader who was provably AWOL for more than a year (in war time that is called desertion and punishable by death - Private Slovak - but Vietnam was not technically a war, etc, etc). Unfortunately the chicken hawk puppeteers are going to take down a lot of young "coalition" soldiers before We The People finally get off our butts and change things.

Dubya didn't lose the election, We The People lost our right to choose because we allowed the farce to be carried to the absurd. The Electoral College system that brought about this disaster is still in place and the good ol boys are going to get re-elected too.

As for Mr. Moore, maybe he did make one or two factual errors in his book but at least he is trying, which is more than can be said for a lot of my fellow countrymen who watch the Fox NEWS Network and think they are well informed about world events and war is okay because Iraq is a threat to the US. More Americans die from accidents involving drunk American drivers (lead on GW!) than from terrorist acts provably committed without the prior knowledge of the intelligence services. Who is the threat to America?

 

[His Divine Shadow]

Re: Hate?

Even (President) Blair makes the USP look like a numbskull.

Prime Minister, silly.😀

 

[BigJim]

Re: Re: Hate?

Prime Minister, silly.😀

I think Tony Blergh even calls himself the President. President of the United States of Europe.

 

[His Divine Shadow]

Really? WAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Well, I guess you would know.

 

[BigJim]

Re: Hate?

Dubya didn't lose the election, We The People lost our right to choose because we allowed the farce to be carried to the absurd. The Electoral College system that brought about this disaster is still in place and the good ol boys are going to get re-elected too.

Ave, I was nearly in tears after reading that. Once again an American says in ten words what took me a thousand to say. If I could post as concisely, I would'nt be such a figure of fun.

 

[His Divine Shadow]

In this, I agree totally. The electoral college has gone from a nessesary organization (from back when nobody voted) to being the way that any moron with the right connections can become president. It's time for a change.

 

[xylo]

Re: LOL What a bunch of BULLSHIT..

Gores family had ties to Hitler. That doesn't make Gore Hitler. You can take ANY politician and eventually tie him to something, it's like playing 7 steps to kevin Bacan.


Tron

Hitler isn't a current terrorist, He does not in any way pose a threat to the American people. 7 steps? try one step.

I'm also still waiting for anyone to post any posictive aspects about the Bush administration, so far no one has (jeez, I wonder why).

Also the point that was made about the economy was only partly true. George Bush has been in office for a while now, and it does not look like things are improving. When the next administration comes along and have to clean up the mess left by the Bush administration (which will be much worse than the one left by the Clinton administration, blue dress included), just remember that I said, I told you so.

xylo

p.s. I am not a huge fan of the Democrats either, their main merit for me is that at least they're not Republicans

 

[BigJim]

In this, I agree totally. The electoral college has gone from a nessesary organization (from back when nobody voted) to being the way that any moron with the right connections can become president. It's time for a change.

I agree 100%. But it also needs a dramatic change to the way candidates are put up for the vote too. At the moment the only people you see are the same old faces, friends of the same old faces and relatives of the same old faces. The only way people can mount a campaign is by having the money and the connections to run one. Even Ross Perot is connected to the same people that CLinton, Bush, Gore etc are. (Namely people with bucks for campaigns like Henry Kissinger and David Rockefeller.)

I think it's about time where America actually WAS a place where any baby born today could grow up to be President.

 

[His Divine Shadow]

I think it's about time where America actually WAS a place where any baby born today could grow up to be President.

Amen.

 

[buggs]

While we are on the subject of Bush, why don't we talk about that farce of a man, Clinton? I am sure you love him and will defend that low life to the hilt. Where to begin? Let me see.

"I did not have sexual relations."

Regarding the death of Vince Foster and the White house cover up:

http://www.assumption.edu/WebVAX/ETnew/wamb02Mar97.html
http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/foster.html

I love how a guy can be found slumped over his desk by his secretary in the White house, then when she leaves to get someone, get up on it's own and walk to his car. Then, when White House security finds the body sitting in it's car in the white house parking lot, and the security goes in to get his superiors, the body drives to Fort Marcy Park, where it is found by Park Police. But don't count this dead body of Fosters out yet. When park police go to get the DC police, the body gets up and walks 200 feet in muddy ground without getting any mud on his shoes to drop on the ground.

My favorite white house blunder was when they did their own investigation into it and produced a Polaroid, they claim was taken on the original crime scene, of the gun in Vince Fosters hand that he used to kill himself. The funny thing about the photo is:

1. The had the gun in the wrong hand. I believe that Vince Foster was right handed, and the gun was in the left, or vice versa.

2. Vince Foster died in July. The White house was doing their investigation in October. Funny how the leaves are all over the ground and orange and yellow in color in July when the white house said this photo was taken. Unlike in October, when the White House was doing their investigation.

Then you have Ron Brown, another one of Clintons old cronies who, just as he was about to testify bout Clinton in regards to White Water, but his plane crashes on a supposedly cloudy day, when anyone at the time could go to any Weather satellite website and see that it was a completely sunny day when the plane crashed. But that is only one of the "out ness'" of it. Here they are:

http://www.conspire.com/curren37.html

Then you have another Clinton intern, Mary Mahoney, who was about to go public about Clinton sexually harassing her, was shot.

http://members.tripod.com/~cbn2/d3.html

I also love the fact that in the day between when Betty Curry said she would testify in the Lewinsky case, her brother was found beaten on the side of the road.

I know, you are saying the trial against Clinton, as they had no right to bring up what was between Clinton and Lewis in the Paula Jones case. Well the reason why Paula Jones attorneys could bring it up is due to Bill's own law he passed. The law stated that, in a sexual harassment case when it is a "he says" versus "she says", the party claiming harassment can bring up other known instances of misconduct to establish M.O. on the offending party.

Or how about the amount of people that where connected to Clinton who had committed suicide:

DEATHS - SUICIDES
Vincent Foster (Whitehouse Deputy Counsel, Gunshot to mouth, neck wounds)
Kathy Ferguson (ex-wife of Clinton co-defendant, Gunshot to head)
Bill Shelton (Arkansas state trooper, Kathy Ferguson's fiancée, Gunshot to head)
Susan Coleman (Alleged Clinton Girlfriend, 7.5 months pregnant, Gunshot to head)
Jon Parnell Walker (RTC Investigator on Whitewater, fell from top of Lincoln Towers)
Niko Junic (In charge of the radio beacon/Brown Crash, Gunshot)
John A. Wilson (Former Wash D.C. councilman, hung)
Terrance Yeakey (First policeman at the Murrah Building, gun shot wound/slashes)
Ian Spiro (Inslaw Witness, Gunshot to Head)
Sharlott A. Donovan (Ret TechSgt/WH Comm Office, Plastic Bag over Head)
Admiral Boorda (CNO, gunshot chest)
Frank Aller (Clinton roommate at Oxford, repentant of draft dodging, Gunshot to mouth)
Robert Bates (Mena mechanic, witness) - drank himself to death on mouthwash
James Bunch ("Black Book" keeper, gunshot)
Wallace Blaylock (husband of Lenora Steinkamp - lady in Drudge video taped 93 aired 9/98, gunshot)
Raymond Albright (shot 5 times in chest, ruled suicide by M.E. Malak)
Charles Wilbourne Miller, Exec of Alltel - successor to Jackson Stephen's Systematics (gunshot)
Gordon Matteson (Clinton friend/associate, Shot to head)
Danny Casolaro (Investigator Inslaw, "Octopus" - Wrists Slashed)
Calvin Walraven (Witness Jocelyn Elders son's drug case, Gunshot)
Marine Cpl Eric S. Fox, assigned to helicopter squadron for president (gun shot to head)
Peter John Berwick, shot to death witness in federal investigation Arkansas company
John Arthur Paisley (CIA, gunshot to head, found in river…)
Laurence Martin (OKC surviver, suicide by plane crash)
Kenneth Trentadue (OK prisoner)
Li Fuxiang (foreign exchange, jump)
John I Millis (House Intelligence, CIA)
Evan Hunziker (held in North Korea)
Charlene Edwards (INS Miami)
Franz Lanz (ARL scientist, informant)
Paul Vander Myde (Commerce)

Details on their suicides can be found here:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/3450/arkancides.html

People killed in homicides that have a direct connection to Clinton:

DEATHS - HOMICIDES
Mary Mahoney (Former White House intern shot multiple times in a Starbucks, pockets picked, no cash register money taken)
Luther "Jerry" Parks (Provided security for Clinton's campaign, multiple gunshots)
Kevin Ives (Witness to Mena, skull crushed, left to be run over by train)
Don Henry (Witness to Mena, stabbed, left to be run over by train)
Eric Butera (Starbucks informant, beaten to death in sting)
Jeff Rhodes (Ives/Henry Witness, gunshot to head)
Ed Gould (Clinton's HIV/AIDS Advisory Council, Toxic)
Florence Martin (Accountant with info on Barry Seal, Gunshot to head)
Alder Berriman (Barry) Seal (Mena, Murdered)
Keith McKaskle (Ives/Henry Informant, Stabbed)
Gregory Collins (Ives/Henry Informant, Gunshot to Head)
James Milon (Ives/Henry Informant, Decapitated)
Richard Winters (Ives/Henry Suspect, Shotgunned)
Jordan Ketelson (Ives/Henry Informant, Shotgunned)
Larry Guerin (Inslaw Investigator, unknown)
Alan Standorf (NSA, Inslaw Investigator, unknown)
Dennis Eisman (Inslaw attorney, Shot)
Mitchell D. Abel, (Cocaine dealer and student re Tyson, Gunshot)
Mike Samples (Ives/Henry witness)
Eric L. Henderson (financial advisor to Ron Brown, shot while riding bicycle)
Steve Leung (investor in China, beaten)
Mary Beth (Pixie) Grismore (politically connected, murdered)
Judy Danielak (journalist, sniper)
Cecil Boren (by escaped inmate, tainted blood whistleblower)
Lee Scott Hall (stabbed, Lawrence Livermore Lab employee)
John D Muskopf (CIA Analyst, killed in robbery attempt)

Read about the details of their homicides here:
http://alamo-girl.com/0362.htm

Or how about the amount of people who died from accidents:

DEATHS - ACCIDENTS
Ron Brown, Plane Crash (Commerce, Pathologists question wound to head on xrays) – see section on Ron Brown Plane Crash
Victor Raisner, Plane Crash (National Finance Co-Chair Clinton for President)
R. Montgomery Raiser, Plane Crash (Clinton campaign)
Herschell Friday, Plane Crash (Presidential Campaign Finance Committee)
Paula Gober, Car Accident (Clinton Speech Interpreter)
Stanley Heard, Plane Crash (Clinton Health Care Advisory Committee)
Steven Dickson, Plane Crash (Clinton Health Care Advisory Committee)
Johnny Franklin Lawhon, Car Accident (Found Whitewater Canceled Check in Car after Tornado)
Theodore Williams, Betty Currie's brother, Beaten before Betty's Senate testimony then Car/Pedestrian Accident during Monica story(Key Witness' brother)
Shelley Kelly, Survived Brown Plane Crash - died hours later (Stewardess)
Judy Gibbs, Fire (Alleged Clinton Girlfriend, Witness)
Keith Coney, Motorcycle Accident (Ives/Henry Witness)
Dr Donald Chumley, Plane Crash (Physician at the OKC Murrah building)
Jim Wilhite, Ski Accident (Friend of McLarty)
Dr. Ronald Rogers, Plane Crash (Informant)
Paul Olson, Plane Crash (Witness)
Neal Cooper Moody, Car Accident (Step Son of Vince Foster Widow, Lisa)
William Colby, canoe drowning (former Director of the CIA, editor of "Strategic Investment" which hired experts to investigate Vince Foster's suicide note)
Randall Tyson, choked on a cookie (half brother to Don Tyson)
Woody Lemons, wife and mother, private airplane crash (OKC informant)
Mohammed Samir Ferrat, TWA 800 Plane Crash (Brown connections, initial suspect) – see Ron Brown Plane Crash section
Jan Kopold, accidental fall in Turkey in 1970
Dan Dutko (Head Injuries, Bike accident) DNC Fund Raiser
David Drye, Plane Crash (friend of Matrisciana – Clinton’s Chronicles, etc.)
Lt Colonel Mark Cwick (auto accident, Clinton pilot)
Major Marc Hohle (helicopter crash Okinawa, Clinton pilot)
Eddie Pack (Waco research, microwave exposure)
Reverend Roger Howard (Waco research, automobile)
Manual Howard (Waco research, automobile)
James Ray Dobbins (Waco research, automobile)

You can read about the details of their deaths here:
http://alamo-girl.com/0363.htm

There are more deaths. Just go here:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/3450/arkancides.html

But there are a whole slew of other things that Clinton has done as well:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/3450/scandals.html

Hmm. A guy who some fat, tubby, "Hollywood Hack" says was a cheerleader when he actually played football versus a guy who has multiple homicides, suicides, etc., connected to him? Hmm let me see what guy is better. HMMMMMMMMMM?

Oh, and by the way, Clinton also wanted regime change of Iraq in 1998, and spoke to the Pentagon about it in Feb of 1998. But Kofi Annan stepped in and talked Clinton into trying the failed food for oil program. Don’t take my word for it, read it here:

“The president's warnings are firm. "If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." The stakes, he says, could not be higher. "Some day, some way, I guarantee you, he'll use the arsenal."

These are the words not of President George W. Bush in September 2002 but of President Bill Clinton on February 18, 1998. Clinton was speaking at the Pentagon, after the Joint Chiefs and other top national security advisers had briefed him on U.S. military readiness. The televised speech followed a month-long build-up of U.S. troops and equipment in the Persian Gulf. And it won applause from leading Democrats on Capitol Hill.”

Taken from the website:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/607rkunu.asp

How do you like that flaming cake going down?

 

[BigJim]

While we are on the subject of Bush, why don't we talk about that farce of a man, Clinton? I am sure you love him and will defend that low life to the hilt. Where to begin? Let me see.

Defend Clinton? Nope, not me. Like all before him (and since) he was crooked up to the eyebrows and selected by blood, rather than elected by ballot. Don't get me wrong Buggs, I'm not a Democrat. I'm just focusing on Bush right now because he's the current Pres and because they have more involvement with the build-up and aftermath of 9/11.

For the record, CLinton was an evil, murdering, coke cnorting asshole who never deserved any vote that an American voter gave him. But considering the alternative was another genetic selectee of the same old-guard, who cares? They're all bent, all crooked, all criminals and all seriously unbalanced.

 

[avethibaltus]

Thanks Big Jim.

BTW, we have the same former? professions if I've followed things correctly. Smith, Wesson, and I took care of each other for quite some time.

 

[BigJim]

Thanks Big Jim.

BTW, we have the same former? professions if I've followed things correctly. Smith, Wesson, and I took care of each other for quite some time.

You an ex-rozzer like Steve, Ave?

Yep, for my sins. I could hardly compare rural Hampshire to the USA though.

 

[Iggy pop]

I'm not going to defend Clinton. He was just another sleazy politican. But I will say this I was making a lot more money when he was President.

 

[buggs]

But you know what. And this is just I. I would much rather make less money than have another life taken because of a drug addiction or a con business scheme deal. Human life is more valuable to me than that, even if I don't know the person. As wrong as deaths are as the result of war, which they are, to kill someone for something as simple as keeping your drug addiction and your con businesses deal quiet gives me the appearance that human life is a cheap commodity to Clinton when it comes to saving or covering his ass.

 

[theallknowing1]

I have to agree and disagree at the same time

I agree 100%. But it also needs a dramatic change to the way candidates are put up for the vote too. At the moment the only people you see are the same old faces, friends of the same old faces and relatives of the same old faces. The only way people can mount a campaign is by having the money and the connections to run one. Even Ross Perot is connected to the same people that CLinton, Bush, Gore etc are. (Namely people with bucks for campaigns like Henry Kissinger and David Rockefeller.)

I think it's about time where America actually WAS a place where any baby born today could grow up to be President.

While I wish this could happen just as much as you do, there is something I would like to point out. I'm going to use a famous quote here from my FAVORITE political philosopher. As Niccolo Machiavelli once said "how we live is so far removed from how we ought to live, that he who abandons what is done for what ought to be done, will rather learn to bring about his own ruin rather than his preservation" Machiavelli was the ORIGINAL political realist. The basic point here from both him and me is that while it would be nice to do a lot of things, and they certainly OUGHT to be done, they probably won't happen. And any effort to try to make them happen will be futile and may even cause personal loss. Politicians LIKE the electoral college BECAUSE it keeps them in power over the masses. THEY most certainly ARENT going to change that on their own. To do that it would take a HUGE amount of outside influence, probably on a revolutionary level. In fact they have taken measures before, such as the "NO SOFT MONEY" law for elections. That doesnt hurt rich people running for office, only people who arent rich enough to pay out of their pocket to run. Thus this perpetuates the power of the rich.

 

[TKpervert]

political pundits endure short careers, spanning maybe 3 years.
after that they're irrelevant.
any more questions ?

 

[His Divine Shadow]

Perv's right, you know. I, fortunatly, am multitalented.

 

[BigJim]

Re: I have to agree and disagree at the same time

The basic point here from both him and me is that while it would be nice to do a lot of things, and they certainly OUGHT to be done, they probably won't happen. And any effort to try to make them happen will be futile and may even cause personal loss.

If Satan's greatest ever ploy was convincing mankind that he didn't exist, then politicians greatest ploy was making them believe they have no power. As for effort causing personal loss, well only if you go at it bull-headed and dangerously. Otherwise the only way is massive personal gain.

Politicians LIKE the electoral college BECAUSE it keeps them in power over the masses. THEY most certainly ARENT going to change that on their own. To do that it would take a HUGE amount of outside influence, probably on a revolutionary level.

No they won't change it on their own. We've had the "old order" of politicians running things for centuries. Let's face it; countries have always been in debt, countries have always gone to pointless wars and countries have always treated their people like shit whilst trumpeting to them that they live in a land of liberty, freedom, milk and honey. The "old order" is fucked up and doesn't work! It's whole existence serves only to perpetrate itself.
In the last part of my lengthy 9/11 threads I'll suggest the solutions as I see them. I think it would surprise y'all just how easy it would be to turn the tide. One thing is for sure though, it's up to us. Sitting on our collective candy-asses will do nothing but perpetuate the cycle for longer. God isn't gonna save the day for us, only give us the tools to save it for ourselves.
It would'nt take revolution either. Armed revolution never did anything but set up another system that was either as bad as, or worse than the one before it. And that includes the American revolution. The only way to improve something is by working from a peaceful and direct route, not getting bogged down with stockpiling guns like the Christian Patriot Movement, or sitting in smoke filled rooms planning and plotting.