Im sorry but Fuck you denver

[nessonite1]

Friendly reminder to be civil.

 

[Nicole.]

ANY animal has a possibilty of snapping and attacking, it's just the animals that are actually able too cuase bodily harm that get the bad rep. Most cats are known to be more aggresive than dogs, they're just weaker. When a cat swipes at you becuase you got too close to it, that's an attack, just that the swipe won't really hurt all that much, so no one thinks anything of it and it's not "reported" as an attack. If a dog does attack someone it's more than likely to hurt a bit more and is reported. Obviously these attacks do happen, and I agree that a dog should be punished, emphasis on WHEN THEY ACTUALLY ATTACK. But if you think that you're right in ripping someone's beloved pet from them, and putting it to death, just becuase there is a chance that it can snap and harm someone, then you should be punched in the mouth. Any good pet owner regards his or her pet as a member of the family, a great owner, treats one like a child. Some people can't have children of their own, so they get a pet instead. If you think for a second that you have the right to kill a member of someone's family, or what could be a potential child, then take a long deep breath, and think again.

 

[drizzay01]

That is such an outlandishly STUPID reply I will ignore it and not reply...

Um, actually. What he said made sense. It wasn't a completely fair comparrison, but, it does make sense.

Leashes, and a strong owner can stop any animal from attacking. Cept maybe a Bear. =/

 

[Goodieluver]

Um, actually. What he said made sense. It wasn't a completely fair comparrison, but, it does make sense.

Leashes, and a strong owner can stop any animal from attacking. Cept maybe a Bear. =/

Id disagree, bears are controlled in circuses...lol...ever see the one riding a cart with a lil shriners hat? 🙂

Now sharks, lets try and leash them....lol

 

[Goodieluver]

I live in the southern suburbs of Denver and contrary to F.L. Atlanta's assertation Denver is NOT 'Fucked up'. While we are at it goodieluver who do you think you are anyway to start a thread called 'Im sorry but Fuck you Denver' just because you don't agree with an ordinance the City passed concerning Pit Bulls. Miami and Cincinnati are other major city's that passed the same ordinance but you selected to single out Denver for your tirade. Everyone has opinions on dogs that can turn on people and bite, mame or even kill them and why they think this is true or false and that's fine. I for one think dogs like Pit Bulls and some other breeds that have been bred for fighting can't be trusted around small chiildren and even full grown adults. If I saw a Pit Bull attack a small child or adult there would be no need for any ordinance to ban them because I would make sure they were destroyed even if I had to load up a 12 gauge shotgun and kill them myself. Any dog that can't be trusted because meanness has been bread into them needs to be kept away from people especially small children to prevent further such attacks from occuring. Until they are we will continue to witness their attacks on people either in person or on TV or read about them in the newspaper

How many attacks have you personally witnessed? How bad is the epedemic of vicious dog attacks in the city? Was the national guard called in to set up blockades against this massive swarm of pittbulls roaming the streets? The level they have gone to, banning all pitts out of denver and if they see one, esp on your lawn or in your house, the dogs to be taken and set to be destroyed. I love how they try and moralize it...saying destroyed and not killed...

What breed is next, hell lets kill all dogs, they are largly ancestor of roaming wolf packs centuries ago, and we know how deadly they are.

Man is the most dangerous animal in the world and some dangerous criminals are treated better than dogs that have never harmed a soul.

 

[silverleaflycan]

Well hubert, since you brought up cats, they can cause much more damage than a Pit Bull. A common misconception is that cats are very clean. It is true that on the outside they are very clean, their nails and mouth are extremely filthy. Also cats commonly leave puncture wounds with their claws, which have a high risk of infection and are very very hard to clean. Cat bites can also be fatal, with the right breeds. The saliva of these cats carry bacteria that can lead to shock or a very quick spreading infection. But cats look innocent enough so most people don't really ever look into this information. Back on to Pit Bulls, and dogs in general, they have no cerebrum, well it's pretty much nonexistant. The cerebrum is what differentiates humans from animals, it's what allows us to think. Dogs have a basic brain structure, I will stick to the Limbic system though. The Amygdala is a prime center for rage control, to my knowledge everything has it. Pit Bulls have been bred to have a specific Amygdala and other 'mutations' to their Limbic system, which is what has caused them to become prime fighting dogs. It's all selective breeding, and sadly, humans haev deformed what was once a perfectly good animal into a time bomb, just waiting for a moment to snap. No amount of training can fix a fighting dog, there is no cerebrum to control it's urges. Just some insight to mull around.

 

[Cbarton]

Um, actually. What he said made sense. It wasn't a completely fair comparrison, but, it does make sense.

Leashes, and a strong owner can stop any animal from attacking. Cept maybe a Bear. =/

Ok....why I feel the response is off the mark (now that I am awake enough to respond rationally)

(1) Sheer genetic science: The gestation period for a dog is MUCH shorter than a human. The number of generations of pit bulls far exceed the number of generations of African Americans since the enslavement period. The number is exponentialy different. In that time period, agressiveness has been so bred in it will take a LONG time to get it out, if ever. Look at cattle on the farm. Originally , ALL cattle had horns. Farmers have sucessfully bred out the horns for saftey of the farmers. Or turkeys. Wild turkeys fly well and fast. Domestic Turkeys have been specifically bred for large breasts to sell more white meat, making them unable to fly (the famous WKRP in Cincinnati turkey drop scene was not off base on what would have happened if really done). That has been done, sadly, with animals like pit bulls as well.

(2) To compare a race of people to animals like that is totally wrong. I have a bi-racial nephew, so I am sensitive to issues such as this. It smells of the same poor judgement used by Al Campanis and Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder.

(3) You compared a gentic trait (agression) with a racial perception. In genetics, that is apples and oranges. Racial preceptions are caught and taught, not a part of ones genetics.

Sadly, the breed has been poisoned, and too many owners and breeders want that poison left in them. Any owner must realize this and realize the risk they are taking and putting others in. That is what I feel about it. I think banning the breed should be the VERY LAST step. But, I have seen so many bad, irriesponsible owners that it makes it hard. When we lived in Bowling Green, our neighbors had one that was mistreated and neglected at times. A friend of ours ran a BBQ place and we got bones and hides for our dogs that we tossed over the fence to make sure he was well taken care of. When he broke loose, he would chase others, but come up to my wife and I and roll an his back to let us rub his belly. However, even though he had only one tooth left, I knew any time he could turn on us. I was always prepared just in case. I can NEVER assume they will always stay trained, especially if bad owner are involved at any time of their lives.

 

[Faramir]

not having read every reply throughout this thread, I'll just say that what the city of Denver did is just the easy way out. the general populous doesn't blink an eye over a dog being put down. it's just easier and more economical for them to kill dogs than to go after irresponsible owners, breeders, and the dog fighters (whom I personally think should just be shot on site), which would cost them money ...and isn't that really the bottom line these days?

so what breed is next? ...and who is the holier than thou individual who deems what breeds are aggressive, and by what means do they determine that? I've run into Chihuahua's that are more viscious than my 150 pound Rottie, but guess which one would get the needle (or gassed).

yes, if you own a large breed dog that the MEDIA has proclaimed to be dangerous and aggressive, you must be a responsible owner, elst your dog's head could wind up on the chopping block! ...and I really do believe it's the MEDIA that is responsible because all they cover are the NEGATIVE's!

it's ALL bullshit, and just another reason for me to believe that (in general) American society is headed down the toilet!

P.S. edit ....if you keep your ill mannered, spoiled, braty kids out of and away from, MY, FENCED, back yard, where they have no business being, because it's not THEIR/YOUR back yard, ....then there won't be a problem, will there! It's as simple as that!

 

[Cbarton]

P.S. edit ....if you keep your ill mannered, spoiled, braty kids out of and away from, MY, FENCED, back yard, where they have no business being, because it's not THEIR/YOUR back yard, ....then there won't be a problem, will there! It's as simple as that!

Amen to that one!

 

[Goodieluver]

Well hubert, since you brought up cats, they can cause much more damage than a Pit Bull. A common misconception is that cats are very clean. It is true that on the outside they are very clean, their nails and mouth are extremely filthy. Also cats commonly leave puncture wounds with their claws, which have a high risk of infection and are very very hard to clean. Cat bites can also be fatal, with the right breeds. The saliva of these cats carry bacteria that can lead to shock or a very quick spreading infection. But cats look innocent enough so most people don't really ever look into this information. Back on to Pit Bulls, and dogs in general, they have no cerebrum, well it's pretty much nonexistant. The cerebrum is what differentiates humans from animals, it's what allows us to think. Dogs have a basic brain structure, I will stick to the Limbic system though. The Amygdala is a prime center for rage control, to my knowledge everything has it. Pit Bulls have been bred to have a specific Amygdala and other 'mutations' to their Limbic system, which is what has caused them to become prime fighting dogs. It's all selective breeding, and sadly, humans haev deformed what was once a perfectly good animal into a time bomb, just waiting for a moment to snap. No amount of training can fix a fighting dog, there is no cerebrum to control it's urges. Just some insight to mull around.

Wow, i did not know that about cats, thankyou for that info

 

[Goodieluver]

Amen to that one!

Agreed

 

[Nicole.]

Well hubert, since you brought up cats, they can cause much more damage than a Pit Bull. A common misconception is that cats are very clean. It is true that on the outside they are very clean, their nails and mouth are extremely filthy. Also cats commonly leave puncture wounds with their claws, which have a high risk of infection and are very very hard to clean. Cat bites can also be fatal, with the right breeds. The saliva of these cats carry bacteria that can lead to shock or a very quick spreading infection. But cats look innocent enough so most people don't really ever look into this information.

You think that a small bit of bacteria, that has a chance of "infecting" you is more lethal than being mauled by a dog? That judgement alone discredits your entire opinion to me.

"Cat-scratch disease is not a severe illness in people who are healthy. But it can be a problem in people with weak immune systems. People with weak immune systems include those who are receiving chemotherapy for cancer, those who have diabetes or those who have acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS)." - familydoctor.org

Some of the signs of this disease can get as bad as sores forming around the effected area, or even swelling! holy crap! Yeah, sounds real harmful.

Back on to Pit Bulls, and dogs in general, they have no cerebrum, well it's pretty much nonexistant. The cerebrum is what differentiates humans from animals, it's what allows us to think. Dogs have a basic brain structure, I will stick to the Limbic system though. The Amygdala is a prime center for rage control, to my knowledge everything has it. Pit Bulls have been bred to have a specific Amygdala and other 'mutations' to their Limbic system, which is what has caused them to become prime fighting dogs. It's all selective breeding, and sadly, humans haev deformed what was once a perfectly good animal into a time bomb, just waiting for a moment to snap.

Unfortunatley, yes, that's the truth, and part of my point. Dogs, and most other animals can snap at any time, but it's the fault of the owner. Any dog that is born and raised under a good owner, will not. For a Pitbull, it might be harder, but RESPONSIBLE OWNERSHIP is a must with any type of pet. As I've said before but you seemed to not understand, these attacks do still happen, and I'm in pure agreement that a dog should be punished for it, when someone kills a PitBull regardless of it's background and temperament, and without a fair evaluation, they themselves are just killing an innocent life.

No amount of training can fix a fighting dog, there is no cerebrum to control it's urges. Just some insight to mull around

Ignorace at it's best. If that statement was even anywhere near the truth, then that would mean that every single PitBull that has ever lived has attacked someone for absolutley no reason at all. Since that isn't the truth, it discredits your opinion once again.

Let me say this one more time to make myself as clear as possible. Do not argue with me that Pitbulls are known to attack and harm more than other dogs, I know that. Do not argue with me that when a dog does harm somoene, it should be punished, I know that as well. My only argument is DON'T KILL THE FUCKING ANIMAL IF IT HASN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG. If you disagree with thatm then you can argue with me, and burn in hell while you're at it, Hitler.

 

[MistressValerie1]

Friendly reminder to be civil.

And now, a not-so-friendly reminder to keep it civil.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

"American Staffordshire terrier
n.

A strong muscular terrier of an American breed with powerful jaws, a broad skull, and short hair, originally developed for dogfighting. Also called pit bull, pit bull terrier, Staffordshire terrier."

Me thinks we need to start breeding more Staffordshire Terriers and less Pit Bulls. If we created these vicious monsters we can uncreate them as well. It takes more than genetic tampering to change a dog (or human for that matter). Its more so, in my opinion, a matter of breaking their spirit. And if that means having to do it again by showing them love and treating them as they ought to be and as they would be as any lesser dog then its a step in the right direction even if its met at first with skepticism and/or failure. Perhaps by doing what we've done to create them this way, we can reverse it. That may mean all currently existing pitbulls are lost causes in this sense, but future generations may be salvagable in this way.

I had a "Pitbull" named Blaze several years ago. My father recieved him from some aqquaintances and they basically dumped the dog on us as they were not the owners either. When we recieved him, he had a slit on his tongue, no doubt from a blade or another dog. While the wound had healed and it wasn't large, it enraged me, as did the obvious cigarette burns on his body and face. He was also malnurished and just skin and bones. He was also already neutered, which I hear is often done to increase their verocity in fights.

We took care of him as if he were always ours from the beginning and we restored him to how he ought to be physically and mentally/emotionally. We showed that dog nothing but love, attention and what it was to be free of whatever hell he must have been in before.

With our care its as if none of that mattered anymore. This dog was friendly, cheerful, playful and completely non-violent after we fixed him up.

But alas, the myth that dogs don't have good memories is a lie. Because Blaze hated black people. Whenever a white person or anyone else would walk by our house, he'd wag his tail. But when a black person walked by he went into a frenzy and looked as if he wanted to kill them.

We would joke around sometimes like "oh great, our dog is a racist!" but in truth it was apparent that the previous owners were most likely black and that they or others like them (perhaps also black), were responsible for creating this pour creature.

To attest to the agressive nature of the pit bull I will vouch that there were times we couldn't completely trust Blaze as friendly, loving, and protective as he was (not that we took him in for that reason, it wasn't a security thing.)

One time, I was out on the backyard pourch, just me and him, and I was petting him..it was evening, the sun was going down.....and he gave me those cute whimpers he'd give me, like a big baby. It was so cute. ^^

Anyways, I tried to get up to leave and he growled at me. Startled, but not afraid I kept petting him. But when I stopped and tried to get back up again he barked at me and he had this glare in his eyes. Because he had his head lying down in my lap he could have easily injured me in a second and I was unable to move lest I get bit.

I called out to my dad to come help me. He did and he ended up having to wrestle Blaze away from me and the two literally struggled for dominance. I'm not sure of it, but I think my dad's hand may have been bleeding afterwards (nothing serious). Anyways, it was surreal. I couldn't believe my dog could do that, MY dog, the one I helped nurse back to health, the one whom I cared for and nutured and the one whom seemed happy and joyful.

Fortunately both me and my father were ok and Blaze stopped as soon as my dad yelled at him after wrestling with him a bit. Its very odd, since Blaze went right back to being his usual self like what had just happened never did.

This dog was also jealous of one of the older dogs I had since I was little and grew up with and he attacked her (a dog much smaller than himself) once. Fortunately he couldn't lock in a strangle hold and I stopped it before it got bad. My older dog was bleeding a little but was mostly just shooken up. Again, this is odd, because later the two would be together by accident and when I realized they were together I rushed to find her and found Blaze standing right next to her just waging his tail like he liked her and my other dog, Gumbi (the same dog), wasn't afraid. It was almost funny when they were fighting, but Gumbi, even though she was much smaller was fighting back. She wasn't afraid of Blaze. I also have another dog, and Blaze got along fine with her.

Very odd. These are probably the two things that I remembered the most. And both told me something- no matter how well I treated this dog and "reprogrammed" him so to speak, there was still a fraction of him, a remnant of that poor, manipulated fighting dog in him that I could never drive out of him. I don't feel like a failure because I know I did, that we did what we could do and that for as long as we had him, he was living in peace and love.

I've read this thread and a majority of the posts.

I can only come to the conclusion based on my own experiences with this breed and your forthcoming factoids and tidbits that to own a Pitbull is very challenging and sometimes uncertain. They are unpredictable, and that is perhaps far more dangerous than their physical might and emposing strength.

I want to believe, and I do, however, that American Staffordshire terriers, born and bred as they ought to be (rather than for cruel, sickening personal gain) and treated with the kind of love I have/had for my Blaze, that they WILL NOT be a threat to anyone a majority of the time. And because of that, therefore, I think it is illegitamite to conclude that erradicating this breed or subjugating it to an inhumane point is ultimately necessary.

Viciousness is something that is introduced to an animal, just as it is to humans. It is a learned trait. And while we can and have scientifically tinkered with a dog's brain and emotion centers and what have you, I believe the resolve of a loving owner will win out against the damned tinkering of a genetically conditioned dog.

In my case, I recieved an animal who had experienced the tortures of pit fighting first hand...err...first paw, and at an early age. I saw the beast and created the dog. Just like they created what he was, I created what he was going to be. I undid many things and I'm sure alot of his troubles were over and not given a second thought mentally in his mind after we had raised him up.

However, I'm certain enough damage was done that he could not forget everything. I'm not mentioning this to support the opinion that pitbulls are always dangerous but rather to reemphasis the point that its all in what you make them to be.

Until we can undo what we've done to this breed, we'll just have to live with the random or sporadic unfortunate events that take place until future generations of this breed are liberated from the shackles we've placed on them. We (the upright folks) aren't guilty and neither are the animals. So long as we try to keep them from inflicting possible harm the ratio of injuries or even fatalities by these dogs will obviously go down.

The only thing we can do is raise them properly. We have to be satisfied with that because its the only sane, humane option available to us right now. Killing these dogs off simply because they are a propable threat isn't justified in my opinion. I think we need to spend less time pointing the finger and more time looking for universal solutions, many of which are already available to us.

Finally, I thought I should mention that Blaze is dead and has been for years. We had to put him down unexpectedly. He had become sick unexpectedly and we believe our neighbors at the time had poisoned him. Rather than see him suffer we did what I believe was the right thing. You don't let an animal suffer like that just so you'll feel better that they're still alive. That selfish and inhumane in it's own way.

 

[Lucifer1]

Thats because we have no freedom as americans anymore. George "Hitler" Bush made that patriot act so he could have his piggies search our homes and computers for things lkike this. Naturally aggressive dogs will follow. Pitbulls are actually very sweet dogs who are incredibly tolerant and good around children. They arent Darth Vader who will choose to go to the "dark side" one day. Owners fault? Yup you bet!

 

[aenglish]

An old girlfriend and I were talking about crack dogs (i.e. pit bulls, whose name only became a household word during the Crack Wars of the 1980's) in a supermarket one evening. We were overheard by someone who was obviously a fancier of this breed and who was offended by our remarks. She informed us that Nipper, the dog used in the RCA and Victor logos for many years ("His Master's Voice") was a kind of pit bull (he was an English Bull Terrier), as was Spuds MacKenzie, the official Budweiser Beer mascot of that time.

Nipper and Spuds MacKenzie notwithstanding, IMO, no one gets these dogs just because they want a pet. And no one gets them for security, that's what trained German Shepherds and Dobermans are for. They get them because they can't get a hand gun or an AK-47. Not for nothing did crack dealers fancy these animals. Pit bulls were to the drug gangs of the 80's what Tommy guns were to the gangland of the 20's and 30's.

 

[Goodieluver]

Hitler didnt ban any dog breed and im free to say what i been sayin for the past 22 years

 

[aenglish]

I think the dogs used for guard duty at the Nazi death camps were Dobermans trained and bred for visciousness.

Years ago, I was riding my bicycle through rural Pennsylvania with my bike club. Someon's unleashed Doberman took after me, barking and snapping. I stopped short and so did he, and then his master called him back. I think I aged a good 15 years that day. If it had been a pit bull, I'd probably be dealing with injuries from severe dog bites even today.

 

[nessonite1]

I have to disagree that it's not always the owner's fault. Any dog (be is pitbull, pug, or pekenese) can be predisposed to violence and dogs specially bred to enhance violent tendancies (breeding the most aggresive dog with the most aggresive bitch as happens in fighting dogs like pit bulls) is just asking for trouble.
A family who adopts a pit bull puppy under the impression that the breed is simply the victim of an unjust stereotype and with no idea where the individual dog (and it's parents and grand-parents) came from don't think they have to be a firm, dominant owner to keep it from "turning" and attcking.
When your dog is bred over countless generations to be mean and mentally unstable that bad blood takes a long long time and very careful and selective breeding to get rid of. The bulldog, for example, was a very viscious dog used for bull baiting in Europe. When bull baiting was banned the breed was out of work and would have vanished if selective breeding had not turned the temperment around and created a sweet, laid-back dog instead.
But no, it's not the fault of the owner. A bad owner can bring out the worst in any dog but you have to be an exceptionally good and experienced dog handler to overcome a genetically mean and dominant dog's natural tendancies.
And when buying a dog for your family (especially if you have children) you need to KNOW their background and family history. I imagine that most of the pitbull attacks on people (by pets, not fighting dogs) are because of the wrong dog being placed with people who didn't know what they were getting.
While I wouldn't discount getting a pibull for myself I'd never adopt one from an animal shelter cause you just don't know what it did in it's former life. Was it a fighter? Were it's parents? Were it's parent's parents? You just dont know and the shelter probably doesn't know either. It's just too much of a risk which is why a lot of places put pitbulls down without giving them a chance to be adopted.
As much as we'd like to think that all dogs are inherently good and would be excellent and obedient pets with the proper owners (and for the most part that's true) it isn't always the case. Some dogs just simply can't be trusted. And when you're getting a breed whose population is littered with violence, bad temper, and dominence issues it's a total grab-bag as to what flows in any individual dog's blood.

 

[shark]

I personally know 3 families that have pit bulls, and none of them got the dogs to take the place of their inability to use firearms. Two didn't even have home security in mind.

It sounds to me like aenglish has his own issues.

 

[nessonite1]

And yes, plenty of people get pitbulls simply for pets. I know of one person myself and I hightly doubt it's a unique situation. How many pitbull show dogs do you think there are? I'm sure show pitbulls don't have a trace of meaness in them or they'd never make it in the show ring.
Well trained pitbulls are also commonly used as security dogs. It's not the domain of Dobermans and Shepherds alone. The whole point of a security dog is to be big, loud, and intimidating and a pitbull certainly fits the bill. And with their distinctly massive jaws even the sweetest and most innocent pitbull can scare the pants off an intruder if it were barking at him.

 

[colofootman13]

The whole thing is stupid.People have to start living in reality.
First of all,man created dog.All through the years,man has been into combat(gladiators against each other,man against animal,animal against animal),and they still are.They created the pit bulls for fighting,didn't they.
Now,since it is illegal for public fighting,they do it illegally.So they breed agressive dogs together,raise the pups to be aggressive.Guys that haven't grown up and think they are men want to have aggressive dogs,but really don't have control of them.
Attack dogs are offensive weapons.They do not attack unless they are commanded to or themselves or their owner is attacked.People own dogs,pamper them,even keep up on shots,but DO NOT HAVE THEM SOCIALIZED OR TRAINED.
I remember hearing about a 56 or 58 yr old guy beaten to death outside his house,people getting shot outside a bar for stupid reasons,man creates guns,bombs,kill each other for stupid reasons,etc.Man is alot more dangerous than pit bulls so my question is why are they not banned in Denver?Man is the reason pit bulls are the way they are.Man is so egotistical that they think they can do what they want.It's about time man grows up and really use the brain he thinks he has.

 

[coloman]

This thread has gotten way out of hand. The guy that started this thread was expressing his opposition to the fact that the City of Denver has passed a law banning Pit Bulls within the city limits. I myself don't agree with him or his opinion of the City of Denver and I told him that but I know he has a right to express his opinions no matter what they are. He offered a rebuttal to my comments which is also his right and I don't mind the fact that he did so in the least. The thing that amazes me is that so many people have gone into long disertations either defending or condeming this breed of dog and those breeds like it plus politics and human nature have been brought into it as well. If a City be it Denver, Miami or Cincinnatti wants to enact such a law they have every right to do so but arguing that point is where this thread should have begun and remained at. Instead it has turned into a giant debate that has blown the original scope of this thread totally out of proportion.

 

[His Divine Shadow]

'Tis less the change of focus of the conversation that concerns me than the increase in hostility and posts that contain little added discussion and much more inflammatory rhetoric. Please, try not to post anything that is more argument inciting than discussion building. Disputing points of view is fine, but do it in a civil manner. If the thread becomes less discussion than argument, we will have to end it.

 

[Neutron]

Uh Why..

Why did you delete my opinion that all dogs should be shot? It wasn't inflamatory and was merely a statement of opinion.

Tron