interrogation

[youwontknowme]

hi there. Long time lurker infrequent poster:

If the majority of these tickling videos revolve around the interrogation or torture of a person through tickling then how often (if ever) has it been used in 'real' life. You always read stories of tickling being used in ancient china or something like that but nothing else.

Do we think that relentless tickling with a captive held in stocks and immobile would cause someone to crack or is it really just a fantasy?

Is tickling ever used in other countries as a genuine form of punishment etc? what reality to we have to these imaginations of ours...

 

[BigJim]

If someone was being genuinely interrogated or tortured there's a pretty strong chance that the psychological effect would cancel out the ticklishness in them. Doesn't happen to everyone, but most it does.

As for historical accuracy, well it's very unlikely. Kujman knows more about this than any other human on earth and he's never found any corroberating evidence. He's done a lot of research into this thing over about 20 years; if there was anything like that happening, he'd have discovered it.

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

I don't discuss this much, but...

When I was in college, I was tortured by a cult group. A big part of the tactics they used was tickling...because they saw what it did to me. That was worse for me (on both a physical and psychological level) than most of the other crap they did. So, I can tell you from experience. It CAN be a very effective and REAL torture method. It simply depends on those involved and how they personally react to it.

Ann

 

[BigJim]

Cult group?

 

[Haltickling]

I'm quite sure that none of the "official" police interrogation methods include tickling, and that covers all the illegal tortures in Third World countries. None of the "amnesty international" reports mention it, and they are quite thorough at that. There are far more efficient methods, believe me.

But that doesn't mean there's no tickle interrogation out there, as Ann rightly said. When we were kids, we used to play "trappers and indians", and we used tickle torture to find out where the 'enemy' had their camp. Of course we didn't really mean to hurt one another, and we were careful not leave any marks on the body to avoid trouble with the parents, so tickling seemed the natural choice. I remember one or two guys with whom the tickle interrogation always worked... 😛

 

[Diego]

Imagine yourself in a situation where your life or the lives of the people you love are in real danger if you confess when tickled. THEY WILL NOT BREAKE YOU!!

Anyway tickle-torture is a very sexy fantasy. I am very ticklish myself and my wife can really torment me by tickling the soles of my feet, I also know a couple of very ticklish women ...but neither woulfd colapse if something really serious may hapen

Diego

 

[funny852]

Tickle Interrogation used

Friends:
You are wrong. Tickling is used especially when interrograting women.
There is still a reluctance for many men to hurt women. We are brought up that way. So, tickling is a good substitute. My brother told me a story when he ws in Vietnam, of how they used tickling to interrogate woman when trying to find out where the enemy was hiding. Many of the prostitutes were playing both sides for money and went under the tickling fingers when exposed. Most vets don't talk about anything that puts us in a bad light, understandably. War is hell. Also, I am sure that Sadaam's head torturer who we know raped women also tickled them.
Eric

 

[Kmars]

Hey Guys,

Funny852 I've always heard rumors about tickle torture being used to interrogate it's good that you found out it's really true. I heard about it being used by the Japanese in WW2. I never heard about Saddam's son using it.

 

[BigJim]

A friend said.......

My brother heard........

I'm sure that........


While it's certainly an entertaining thought, none of that constitutes proof that it's been used. the legal term (at least in this country) is hearsay. (Nothing to do with the crap and stroppy pop band.)

Apart from second hand rumours and "I'm that"s, is there any acual proof that it exists/ed?

 

[Oddjob0226]

As far as tickling in China goes, I've actually asked people from China, or who knew some Chinese history, and the answers were either "Yes" it happened - but with no specifics, or "I don't know".

Interestingly, from what I read, anything with "Chinese" in it that refers to something a little odd is actually a British invention, something that started near the turn of the century when England and China were learniong more about each other and people were interacting more and more. If something was wierd and chaotic it was called "Chinese" becuase China was still quite exotic and unusual to the averange Britisher. A Chinese fire drill is something chaotic & bizzare. Chinese water tirture was an unusual torture method whcih caused panic and chaos in the voctim (even though it was used in France in the 1600 or 1700s). In China it apparently didn't exsist, or, if so, it was introduced by Europeans. Chinese and tickling may have been coneected in the same way - something odd (unlike say, a whip)used to cause chaos within an individual.

Ands it must be true because I read it on the Internet!

 

[Grolsch]

I think part of the distinction lies in what constitutes torture. Certainly, having one's body subjected to any stimulation against one's will is unpleasant. I'm no expert on China, justice or religion, but I have read on the web site run by (I believe) Falun Gong that several times Chinese police have tickled prisoners, but it hardly ranks up there with things like electrocution or having one's ears cut off.

Aside from those accounts, out there in human history there are bound to be people who've been tickled as a means of coercion. I think it's just that the worst tickling isn't nearly as bad as some of the things one reads about in the Amnesty International reports. So, if one happens to be the Head Torturer of the State, and your goal is to terrorize citizens, inflict pain and so on, you probably aren't going to stroke someone's soles as much as you're going to whip out the electrodes and plastic shredders.

Just my opinion.

G

 

[Phineas]

I asked my wife about this, once. (Those of you who don't know me, my wife is from mainland China). She's pretty well-versed in Chinese history. Actually, most Chinese are; their school systems pretty much drill Chinese history into their heads. Anyhoo, she did relate that back during the times of the emperors, there were "stories" of tickling being used as torture. Of course, as folks have pointed out, no one has any specific details as to when, where, how, or who. So I pretty much equate it with Washington chopping down the cherry tree; "everybody knows" it happened, when it probably (or definitely) didn't.

Has tickling *never* been used? Of course it has. Ann and funny have related personal anecdotes to this effect. Is it popular, widespread, and systematic, like the bastinado or electroshock? Highly doubtful.

 

[BellaRisa]

Off-topic but a fun story

I'm aware that this thread concerns real interrogation rather than the more fun-oriented, but I had a groovy instance Thursday night that I thought I'd share:

A few of my very close friends got together for dinner and...fun. At one point my regular play-partner, Adam, finally let me up from a long (but nice) spanking over his knee. As he walked away I mumbled that he'd get his one day; the party hostess heard me and we both started giggling, which my spanker of course heard. He looked at me knowingly and asked if I'd said something behind his back, which I of course denied . So he turned his attention on my friend, a very cute brunette of 25 who cracks easier and looked guiltier 🙄 😛. He stalked her over to an easy chair in the corner of the room, and given his interests we expected he would take her over his knee and try to spank the info out of her. But instead he pushed her into the chair, went behind it, and buried his fingers into her neck and under one arm while staring directly at ME. Being very, VERY ticklish the poor girl just shook with giggles and screams and tried desperately to get away, but my rather huge ex-football player just held her there and tickled the bejeezus out of her while waiting for me to tell him what I'd said 😱 . I'm not proud of it but I sat there mesmerized and highly aroused while she suffered-at one point she even tried to tell him herself but he told her he wanted to hear it from me My partner in BellaRisa was there, and when he casually took her bare feet into his lap I knew it was over; she slid down far that her bottom was on the floor, with one tickler on her underarms and ultra-sensitive neck and another using a hairbrush on her toes. I took pity on her; she wasn't making noises anymore, just quaking and lost in silent laughter except for the occasional shriek. I told them what they wanted to hear and they let her go, a lump of giggling girl on her own living room floor. One day she may actually forgive me for taking so long 😀 .

I'd tell you what happened to ME after that, but it's better suited for the spanking forum 😱 😎

Bella

 

[suikoden]

A couple of BAC's drawings made reference to historical tickle torture. One had a French woman being tickled by SS officers although I did wonder if that was a fantasy. The other picture showed a stretched out girl being rib tickled. It said that a human rights group received reports that police in Spain used thie method to interogate female student activists n the 1970's as they couldn't beat them. This one looked a little more plausible but I couldn't find anything to corroborate the story.

That being said the idea of fantasy tickle interrogation is still great fuel for stories, photos and videos. I think we can all agree on that. 🙂 😛

 

[Knox The Hatter]

I'm sorry I couldn't be there for that, Bella. That must've been something else...

 

[U.N.Owen]

Think about it, people... You're the big, macho, violent torture chief. You have someone you want, for whatever reason, to break. You have, depending on the era, knives, hot oil, red-hot metal, electric shocks, hammers, thumbscrews, and god knows what else available.

And you choose to use something that children do for fun?

Why does that not seem likely?

Torture is a seriously vile horror. It's not a game. Saddam Hussein's sons liked to dip people in vats of acid just to unwind... These people aren't out to play around.

The only exception would be a cult-type setting, where messing with someone's head is the AIM. But tickling in a state torture facility? I don't buy it. And I won't until and unless someone produces actual evidence. Hearsay (the third-hand rumor, the "I know I saw it once in a book someplace," etc.) doesn't cut it, and every single case I've ever heard cited traces back to just such a vague source.

Remember: people (if you can call them that) who actually commit acts of torture have MUCH nastier things at their disposal than tickling. They don't want to appear weak, stupid, or silly by falling back on what most people see as a childish triviality. If they want to abuse a woman without obvious damage, they'll gang rape her. We're talking sick people, remember?

Frankly, does anyone here really WANT our personal predilection used in actual violence? Fantasy is one thing, but in reality?

 

[Oddjob0226]

But... if I was a big violent macho torture chief, if I was Saddam's son, that's exactly how I'd unwind. Plus it wouldn't leave any marks outside of whatever restraints I'd use. If someone died, cause of death couldn't be easily traced. If I let someone go, would anyone take their claims seriously enough to overthrow me?

I really should move to Chile.

 

[jordan]

Tickling can be used as a way to get information out of people. Think about this though, what person would think about tickling some one when it would be easier and faster to break a few fingers? Of course I'm probably wrong.

 

[paszkowt]

I seen it mentioned at least twice

Once it was on some Human Rights webpage. Sorry, but I don't remember exactly where. One Tibetian monk published his prison memories. He wrote about beating, electroshocks and so on and he said, that one day the wardens came to his cell, ordered him to lie down on the floor and tickled him all over, He refered to this treatment as being in some ways worse than electroshocks, because more humilating.
The other is in the our most known poet, Adam Mickiewicz, work, called "Dziady". It's in the form of the theater play and it's semi-autobiografic. He, and the main character of the play, was an undreground anti-tzarist conspirator. In one point the main character mentioned, that tzarist police released one of his friends after a heavy interrogation. But the man was a human wreck, because of the methods the police used on him to extract information. The author described some of them, and among others was "They tickled his soles, armpits".

 

[U.N.Owen]

Well, the links provided by MTJ do seem to provide convincing evidence of 'tickling' (I use the term loosely) being used as a state-sponsored torture, the first such evidence I have ever seen.

The stories, however, are sickening. Does anyone here WANT our pet interest used like that? (I don't mean to suggest, of course, that MTJ in any way endorsed the practices he posted about.)

To be perfectly blunt, anyone who is turned on by such abuses should be castrated for the protection of society. [<- EMOTIONAL HYPERBOLE! NOT MEANT LITERALLY!]

 

[U.N.Owen]

There is a profound difference between fantasy and reality, a fact which has been expounded upon at great length in many threads on this forum. Extreme, nonconsensual fantasy is common here. While it is not my personal taste, I have no problem with it morally or ethically, so long as it remains fantasy.

To take pleasure in the REAL suffering of others is an entirely different matter. I frankly could not care less if I am labelled judgmental for saying so. You could not pay me to watch a video of someone being tortured, in any way, in a state sponsored facility... and no, I don't like videos where the supposedly 'consensual' tickling is extreme, either, since, yes, I am fully aware that the models can be reluctant participants.

MTJ's point is not clear to me. On the one hand, he says that REAL torture is an attrocity. On the other hand, he lashes out at anyone who would condemn wanting to see it, and indeed seems to insist that a state-sponsored torture chamber is still a valid and acceptable part of tickling (I see no other way to interpret saying that real-life torture does not misrepresent the fetish, interest, or whatever you want to call it).

It always amuses me when I am accused of hypocrisy for condemning grossly immoral material, as if everyone here "really" wants that, and only those who admit it are really "honest."

This is precisely why I so rarely bother posting in the discussion section of the TMF. I stand by my point 100%, and I always will. Getting turned on by REAL torture, in ANY form, is sickening. The "well, everyone thinks we're sick anyway" answer, answers nothing.

As I said, I have no problem with dark FANTASY. FANTASY is a healthy way to release darker pleasures. But it is not hypocritical or judgmental to say that a woman being tortured in a Chinese or South American jail is revolting. I do happen to believe in basic morality, and being told that I'm being "judgmental" because I stand by it doesn't interest or impress me.

And having said that... I am through with this thread. My point should be perfectly clear, and I'm not interested in further repetitive accusations.

 

[SlaverTickler]

Story I wrote...

I once wrote a Nonconcent story about me capturing and tinkle torturing 2 exotic dancers I know. One was kidnaped tied to the floor of a fan and tickled until she revealed the where abouts of the other.
Then, in this story, I capture the other and tickle torture her until she pees herself. Finally they capture me and extractthere revenge.

I sent this story too one of the women (Sara Ashley) who told me she love the story and would post it on her Pay site (www.saraashley.com, once she got the ok form the other girl (Andrea Baron). As it turned out both of them thought the story was pretty cool, although Andrea was a little weirded out by it at first. Does this mean that I should have my balls cut of, and what would you do to punish them because they liked the story? Cut of there breasts I supose. Some one who gets of on hurting or humiliating other people is sick and evil and he/she should be hung or jailed for there actions. Castration doesn't realy work because a guy can still be aroused even with out his nads, all you would do is make him angrier.

When I have my playful tickle torture's with Sara Ashley she always tells me to stop. Even though she know every time I give her a Shooter-lapdance I'm going to tickle her. She told me she likes being tickled, so why does she beg me to stop, because it instictive. S&M isn't realy about extream pain, it's about taking your tolerence of somthing and pushing it to the next limits. As far as the desperation of models and actress's, I think you should get one on here to talk about it herself before jumping to any conclutions.

 

[U.N.Owen]

Okay, one more time.

Firstly,

So I seem to insist that state-sponsored torture chamber is still a valid and acceptable part of tickling? Really? Where did I make this statement?

Well, I'd have to say it was where you said: "It is foolish to think that our fetish can be misrepresented by real life state-sponsored torture." If something is not a misrepresentation, it is, by definition, an accurate representation. Thus, you did indeed say that state-sponsored torture is a valid represenatation of our fetish. That's what your words mean. If you meant something else, you didn't phrase it very well.

Secondly,

There seems to be some disagreement here about the difference between reality and fantasy. I am not talking about fantasies, stories or artwork of torture in state-sponsored facilities. Though those do not personally appeal to me, I have no problem with them whatsoever, because, yes, I think that fantasy is a healthy way to exorcise darker desires. In general, I don't personally like the stories and artwork you publish, but I neither judge nor condemn them. But that is VERY different than "getting off" on a REAL woman being abused in a REAL jail in the REAL world. To defend the later as if it were mere fantasy is, to my mind, simply invalid.

Thirdly,

You seem to think that I am somehow hurt or surprised by you judging me for my views. On the contrary, I fully expect such judgment, and it doesn't trouble me in the least. My aim here is to explain what I meant, not to defend myself. I don't feel I need any defense, any more than you feel you do. It was in fact you who condemned me in the first place for passing judgment... remember? Why don't we just accept that we have very different moral positions, and we are each inevitably going to judge the other?

And, last but not least, SlaverTickler:

What you are talking about is the writing and enjoyment of a STORY, a work of fantasy fiction. My remarks were aimed at the sexual enjoyment of REAL abuse in the REAL world. As I repeatedly and firmly stated, I have no problem with fantasy at all. So, feel free to disagree with me, but preferably with what I actually said.

Peace, all.

 

[Marauder]

Well, I'd have to say it was where you said: "It is foolish to think that our fetish can be misrepresented by real life state-sponsored torture." If something is not a misrepresentation, it is, by definition, an accurate representation. Thus, you did indeed say that state-sponsored torture is a valid represenatation of our fetish. That's what your words mean. If you meant something else, you didn't phrase it very well.

Morandilas' use of the word "misrepresent" was obviously intended to mean "put in a wrong light". The sentence means "State sponsored tickle torture will not cast a bad light on our fetish - to think otherwise is stupid." It is not phrased badly, but actually quite clear, especially when not ripped out of content.

But that is VERY different than "getting off" on a REAL woman being abused in a REAL jail in the REAL world. To defend the later as if it were mere fantasy is, to my mind, simply invalid.

Since you seems to be replying to Morandilas' post, where are you going with this paragraph? Did he defend people getting off on real world torture? Aside from that, many of us are sadists. I'm one. I don't condone torture, but if I'd read about tickling being used as torture in real life, my first reaction would be popping a boner (repeatedly) while condemning the issue on an intellectual level. Similar hypothetical situation: I come across a helpless victim, say a tied up woman, who I KNOW won't be missed. I'll fantasize and wank off to that picture and the possibility of having been able to tickle torture her, but only after I freed her. That makes me a bad person worthy of castration how, exactly?

You seem to think that I am somehow hurt or surprised by you judging me for my views. On the contrary, I fully expect such judgment, and it doesn't trouble me in the least. My aim here is to explain what I meant, not to defend myself. I don't feel I need any defense, any more than you feel you do. It was in fact you who condemned me in the first place for passing judgment... remember? Why don't we just accept that we have very different moral positions, and we are each inevitably going to judge the other?

If that's your point of view, what the bloody hell are you doing in the middle of a discussion? Your suggestion would make discussing anything absolutely pointless. You see, you discuss a controversial issue to get your opponent to accept your point of view, or to find a compromise. Otherwise, no discussion is taking place, but a two-sided monologue.

And, last but not least, SlaverTickler:

What you are talking about is the writing and enjoyment of a STORY, a work of fantasy fiction. My remarks were aimed at the sexual enjoyment of REAL abuse in the REAL world. As I repeatedly and firmly stated, I have no problem with fantasy at all. So, feel free to disagree with me, but preferably with what I actually said.

(Emphasis mine)
Same goes for you. Interpreting other people's posts based on your own pre-affirmed conceptions will only lead to a distorted view of the opponent's arguments fit to affirm their antagonistic roles. It doesn't allow for a true discussion to take place.

Peace, all.

Peace.

 

[Haltickling]

Personally, I found this to be a key sentence in Moradilas' original post:

I’m not suggesting that everyone would be interested in viewing such a tape but I am suggesting that more people do than are usually willing to admit, particularly in a public forum.

That is not the accusation for ANY point of view, but for a widespread hypocrisy in most fetish communities. However much some people publicly detest state-condoned torture, many of them would pay a small fortune to see this in a video, and that goes for tickling as well as for a certain part of the BDSM community.

The background of this seems to be the fact that the viewer is not responsible for the actions of the torturer, nor for the consequences to the victim. The atrocities have been committed already, and the viewer is free of legal (!) guilt. None of the viewers committed, ordered, or even condoned a crime. So what?

Only the most honest ones would admit that this scenario turns them on. And only the most moral people can say that they wouldn't be turned on by that. The rest would condemn the atrocities, buy the vid, and maybe they would send a donation to amnesty international to calm their own conscience. And that's hypocrisy.

I was truly astonished about the high ratio of honest people in the chat mentioned by Morandilas. The community seems to be more honest than the majority of the "vanilla" world.

UN Owen, I think you were overreacting to Morandilas' post. In fact he didn't accuse anybody of anything. I believe you that you belong to the few people with a high enough moral not to enjoy seeing such a "real-life torture" video. I can imagine that, because that scenery doesn't apply to me either. Quite a while ago, I bought the vid "Nonconsensual 1" by Paradise. I watched it, was disgusted, and sold it almost immediately. The person buying it from me was delighted, and he asked me if I knew of other vids in the same style, if not even harder.

I didn't condemn that buyer, and I wouldn't dare to condemn any buyer of a real-life torture vid either, as long as that person would be honest enough to say he gets turned on by it. Nobody should be condemned for a fantasy, or even the lack of any. I condemn the torturer and the state authorities of the country where that happened, nobody else. I think we can agree on this POV.

As you can see from the stories I've written over the years, I'm much more into consensual, erotic tickle play. That doesn't keep me from enjoying to read non-consensual stuff like MTJ's "Tales from the Asylum". Like you, I'm able to distinguish clearly between reality and fantasy. Some of our TMF members can't, and most of those would never admit it. They have to grow up, and maybe with some help from the community. You won't help anybody by condemning him.

Peace...