Is this really America?

[Haltickling]

Today, I saw a rather interesting report on Germany’s most influential (and independent) TV channel. The weekly broadcast is called ‘World Mirror’ and features correspondents’ reports from all over the world, not just ‘news’ but backgrounds. One of them was on the effects of USA’s ‘Patriot Act’:

- A 75 years old nun from Milwaukee is denied the right to travel by plane. At her inquiry, she was told that she belongs to a group of ‘potentially dangerous people’ on an FBI blacklist. No person on that list is allowed to use a plane. After more investigation, she found out the reason for her name on the blacklist: She’s a member of a Christian peace movement and had participated in several peaceful anti-war demonstrations. An airport employee confirmed the existence of such a blacklist which was given to all the Airlines.

- A 70 years old pensioner from San Francisco discussed politics with some people at a fitness club he visits regularly. He expressed his anti-Bush and anti-war opinion quite clearly and unmistakably. A few days later, two FBI agents visited him and told him that they were ordered to write a report about him because of his anti-American statements.

- Several bookstores and bookshops were encouraged by the FBI to report people who buy books with ‘politically doubtful contents’, the list including several anti-Bush, anti-war, pro-Iraq or pro-Islam books. Many stores received subpoenas to make them divulge all their clients’ personal data, and they were forbidden to talk about this. Some shop owners advise their customers now to pay cash, not by credit card, to prevent their identities getting known by the FBI. Mind you: All those were quite ordinary bookshops which sell all kinds of books, not just political ones.

- All US scuba diving schools were required to give their clients’ data to the FBI. One of them was interviewed by the TV team, and he told them that he was trying to fight this off with an attorney’s help.

Am I paranoid, or does this show a pattern of a police state? Hoover’s FBI behaved quite similarly during the McCarthy era. Is America hunting new witches, this time under the ‘Patriot Act’? I understand the necessity of tightened security in the ‘war against terrorism’, but that’s going much too far in my opinion. This is curbing the freedom of perfectly harmless citizens who happen to disagree with the current government. This is not the America I learned to love over the years and decades.

Is this still YOUR America?

 

[august spies]

yea its getting really bad, and the government is continuing to become more and more intrusive.

but it was always like this, in the 60s the fbi was assasinating black panthers, they bombed an environmental activist in the north west (she just recently passed away, and they finally won thier lawsuit against the fbi)

they take pictures and videotape everyone attending legal and peacefull political demonstrations. and its slowley getting worse and worse under bush and ascroft there would be no freedom, if it were up to them it would be like 1984(orwell book) please read it if you havnt.

but there are people fighting for freedom the most well known group is the aclu, but the left as well.

 

[venray]

It IS getting bad, but only because we were caught with our proverbial pants down on 9-11-01...now we distrust everything and everyone to the point where all are suspect..sad way to have to live...but it could be worse.....look at what the Israeli's have to go through on a day to day basis...not knowing if they will be blown to bits while eating breakfast or attending a wedding....

Ray

 

[Strelnikov]

I must live a sheltered life, because the Patriot Act hasn't affected me at all... yet. Then again, I work surrounded by troops and armed guards, so what's the difference, really?

As for the data base of disloyal citizens, for years the FBI has monitored people who mail order certain materials - tax protest or avoidance material, for example, and a racist book called "The Turner Diaries". During the Clinton Administration, the Southern Poverty Law Center (a left wing legal and advocacy group) commissioned investigations of right-wing groups, kept a data base of such, and regularly turned the contents over to Federal law enforcement. It was illegal for the FBI to collect such info on their own, but not to accept it from third parties.

Police state? I guess it depends on whose ox is gored.

Strelnikov

 

[elaah]

Is it really that bad?

I can attest to the fact that Security has tightened up quite a bit. I will add that our country was more ready for anything like 911 without even knowing we were preparing for it. The Y2K "scare" had all major State Agencies and major companies create written policy, tested and tried drills on "what if" just in case Y2K had major inconveniences.

The setting up of command centers and testing of equipment that can run without any power was also tried tested and found to be that we will exist and continue to function as a state, country and as a Nation.

911 was a test for us that we passed with flying colors. No one took our spirit Hal, and that means we have the world ... ; )

Something terrorists will never even know exists.

Is our country different, Hal? For sure, but we will learn and grow from the inconveniences that it has imposed on us and one day be freer to roam about our daily lives.

Donna

 

[august spies]

edited for flamebait material.....

and no they are not just going after "terrorists" they are going after anyone who is in anyway opposed to the current status quo. and thats how governments have acted throughout history. it has nothing to do with security, most of the hijackers were saudis, but in one of the new governments "security" measures is to make foriengers from certain middle eastern nations register with the state for monitering, but of course saudi arabia wasnt on it. its all greed and freedom hating politics

 

[AffectionateDan]

This is what's it's coming to, people...

The America we love is an illusion, kept in place by the Big Old Money that really controls the way things are run. We have "elections" that we have to choose between a couple of lousy candidates, and even last time, the lesser of two evils we chose had the election STOLEN from him by King George II and his family and good ol' boys network. Our "Commander in Thief" is worse than Clinton was, and he's not only driving the country into a war that none of us supports, anybody who says differently is labeled UNPATRIOTIC. Meanwhile, they pass laws that none of us vote on and very few of us even know about, slowly chipping away at the Constitution and weaning us away from our rights. And their jack-booted thugs in the FBI, BATF, and the Intelligence agencies make lists of potential trouble makers and root around for "evidence" to undermine your credibility or out-and-out ruin your life. Big Brother is marshalling his forces, kids. Some folks wanna turn a blind eye to it and maybe it'll go away, spouting platitudes and dismissing people who make waves by saying, "Oh, you watch too much X-Files, everything is fine, you're paranoid.". Yeah, right. Anyone ever wonder how it GOT to this point in the first place? By sheep like that turning a blind eye to the corruption that's eating away at the United States from within. We're the new Roman Empire. It's going to get ugly, folks. Martial Law is a very real possibility, as is a revolution, and we could actually see it in our lifetimes. Ask Randy Weaver and the survivors of his family from the Ruby Ridge Massacre. Look at Waco, Justice Township, Oklahoma City, 9/11... clear symptoms of the cancer we call our leadership. Crappy turnouts at the polls because people can't be bothered to go and F***ing VOTE. No wonder they're so entrenched in business-as-usual, two party politics. Nobody who's not in their millionaire's club has a chance of getting elected, and even if they've got the resources to try, if there's even a slight chance that they'd MAKE A DIFFERENCE, they get slapped down somehow. Usually the childish mudslinging and character assassinations do the trick. But even though they control just about everything, they're still scared of pushing us too far too fast, because this country has the most armed citizens in the world. It'd cost them too dearly if they clamped down on us too hard all at once, that's why it's a slow process, beating your morale down a little bit at a time, so you feel like you can't make a difference, so why try? We all need to take a step back in time and reevaluate our priorities. 200 years ago, real, honest-to-God patriotic men and women put their lives on the line and established what was supposed to be the land of the free. They wrote the Bill Of Rights to ensure that the freedoms we cherish couldn't be taken away by corrupt leaders. But if we give them away by sitting on our asses and not doing anything about what's going on but bitching about it, they're more than willing to take advantage. Wake up, America! We can still save this great nation of ours, if we keep the faith and VOTE, let your voices be HEARD. Let them know that we're not gonna let them get away with this nonsense. If more of our so-called leaders would walk the same streets as the people who voted them in, live in the same buildings, eat the same food instead of hiding behind glass and steel and bodyguards, maybe we'd get better leadership and a little more concern for the future. Ever ask yourself how it got to the point that they make more in a year than 90% of us do in twenty? Live in mansions, ride around in armored limosines, have Secret Service agents protecting them? Where are we going from here? They're taxing the middle class, the backbone of the country, out of existance, and they know it. "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government."- Thomas Jefferson See? even over two centuries ago, they KNEW. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. Don't let them get away with it! VOTE! Too many laws, not enough Justice! "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." Thomas Jefferson, 1787 It's going to get ugly, folks... are you ready, or are ya gonna bury your head in the sand until it 'goes away'?

:::resumes breathing:::

I love my country, but I fear my government. What's a patriot to do? Keep the Faith in the American dream, and participate as much as I can. Vote! VOTE!!! VOTE!!!!!

 

[Biggles of 266]

anybody who says differently is labeled UNPATRIOTIC.

Top of my personal list of least-favourite things to hear. Over here you get called un-Australian if you disagree with the government or their policies. It's complete bullshit, but it works! People are afraid to speak out because not agreeing with the government is translated into being a goddam terrorist! Anything left of centre is commie, un-Australian, anti-american, pro-f*cking terrorist and un-damn-patriotic. Sure, I like my country and the people who live here, but I don't like the government. Does that make me a threat?

Seems like it does.

Biggles

 

[august spies]

its a good feeling to see most people pro freedom of thought on this post. just thought id say that

 

[hawkikim]

Voting isn't always the answer, unfortunately.

I live in Oregon, and we have had two very significant initiatives that have passed in this state, the "Death with Dignity" Act (which some prefer to call "assisted suicide", and which was passed by a large margin not once, but twice) and a medical marijuana act.

Our nation's attorney general has been spending an inordinate amount of his time trying to have these laws overturned, most specifically the Death with Dignity Act.

So far the Federal judges in the NW have prevented this from happening. But my point is that here is a man who vocally espouses States' Rights but does whatever he can to overturn them. And this is the man who has sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States as Attorney General. Instead, he is using his office to further his own agenda.

I'm ranting, I'm sorry. I've already been called non-patriotic so many times that I'm inured to it. But things like the Homeland Security Dept and the Patriot Act have me worried...sounds a little too Orwell/McCarthy for me.

I AM a patriot, and I am participitory - I haven't missed an election since I turned 18 (that's 30 years to those of you keeping score at home). And I am dismayed at some of the things I am seeing happening around me these days.

Spell my name right in the FBI file,

Kim

All it takes for Evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

 

[august spies]

orwell actually had an FBI file and he send one of his first copies of 1984 directly to j. edgar hoover.

 

[tkrexx]

ALL of you will have your names on the blackboard!...I mean, in some government data compile.


We taking it in the shins, folks. I have a feeling if every single American voted for some nobody in the next Presidential election, we'd still find some rich boy in office. Someday soon a poor li'l rich girl...Perhaps sooner a rich Amer-African...Could come down to a choice between Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Powell...The point is, the individuals who are...well, assigned to live in the White House, are all bought and paid for long before their names are put on any ballot. None of YOU, nor any of your descendants, will become president. Not the way we do it now.

I wonder what would happen if we all simply stopped having kids for say, 20-30 years. Drastic? Yeah, but any more drastic than an armed revolution? The one thing the government cannot force us to do is have babies. Abstaination of reproduction. (Is that a word?) This would be as powerful a peaceful tool as a people could attain. Wouldn't take long to get their attention. Of course, if that does, somehow, come to pass, Human cloning would be declared legal AND Patriotic.

I signed away virtually all the rights I cherished most for four years to serve my country. All the men and women preparing for war as you read this have done the same. I, as well as most of you, will hear the call to arms again if this country is invaded. But I will not give up those rights again. This government's already had their piece of me.

Rxx

 

[asutickler]

Hmmmmm... Yup, America's going straight into the gutter, there's some sort of vast conspiracy controlling us all, and, although we have nice culture and junk, the citizens of the USA are "greedy, selfish, arrogant, dysfunctional, narrow-minded and fanatically religious psuedo-fascist autocrats."

Now then, I have several bridges for sale... Who wants one? 🙄

Here's my random chunks of advice on the subject... 🙂

Don't blow things out of proportion.

Don't believe everything you hear on German TV. I'm sure their "news" is about as unbiased as the crap we get here.

For God's sake, always try to think of rational explanations for things before deciding that the world is against you.

Remember that as bad as the two party system may seem (Bush and Gore were like twins, IMO...) its prime advantage is that it keeps the nation's leadership from breaking into 200 nutty little "factions," any of whom might manage to seize power. (That's how Hitler rose to power.)

If you're on the left (politically speaking), the right is not your enemy. If you're on the right, the left is not your enemy. The REAL enemy is the fanatical extremists from BOTH sides, who want to control the way YOU live.

Before you label folks as "sheep," consider the reasons why they may choose not to believe in your cause. 🙂

If you dislike the way things are run, CHANGE them. You own the place. Organize your fellow "stockholders," and go kick some ass. If enough people believe in something, they can change it.

And finally... SPEAK YOUR MIND. (Not that many of the previous posters in this thread are having any difficulty on that account. 😛 ) The fact that many are willing to criticize and question the status quo means that things are going RIGHT. 😀 When everyone stands up with a crap-eating grin and says "I LOVE my government!", THAT's when you know it's hitting the fan...

 

[JoBelle]

I've been harping on the change of governmental ways for so long that I irritate myself. I'm very proud of my home. I'd be just as proud of my home were I English, Canadian, Morrocan, or what have you. It's my home. BUT, the structure is killing it. I don't belive it is something by grand desgin. I don't think the "powers that be" have been implementing a plan of control. I just think the self indulgent apathy of the average American citizen has allowed them to do it.

I once heard someone say that they "pay their taxes, and that's all they are required to do." It is their RIGHT to sit back and lap up the advantages that so many other try to give by investing time and energy. I lost respect for that person and will never get it back. I have done my time on the city council. I practice what I preach. I did what I could...when I could. Now, I use other means. If you're interested in that, you can ask me.

There are a series of commercials on TV right now. I'm sure you've all seen them. The guy in the library tries to check out a book ad he's approached by a couple of men for apparently violating some "rule." There is another where there is a congregation meeting in a basement, and they are urged to "be careful" as they sneak out. These things are being interpreted as the "enemy" taking away our rights. They are insinuating that fear of living is a result of the "outside" coming in. People need to wake up. They need to realize that if the old money running the joint wants to makes some extreme changes...things could very well end up just like that from the INSIDE!

As far as Hal's original post. Is that my America? It is indeed America....but mine is a bit different. Mine is full of people who get off their lazy asses and do more than whine about things. If actions such as those were tagged on the people around me, it would be a shot heard round the world. I have not had the misfortune of such actions. They are sad indeed. I have to say though...I'd still choose America even with these things happening, simply because of one reason. We are a people that band together for the strangest reasons. We hate our neighbor, until someone else hates us both. Then we bond. Kind brotherly I suppose. SO,....we take the nasty, and we hold onto the hope for better things. You could take issue with the cyclic nature of things. Was it Keats who believed in the 2000 year spin? "And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?" Sure, there are going to be both a rise and a fall. But there is also a pressure cooker effect that can swallow up a government. We've seen it all over the world. When the people at the bottom where the most pressure is felt grow weary of the climate, the lid blows off the mess, and then you pick up the pieces.

I'd hate to see it reach that point.


If you ain't the big daddy
You ain't nobody
If you ain't the big daddy
You ain't nobody

Joby

 

[TicklingDuo]

The biggest problem, as has been stated many times, is that we need to give government of the people by the people and for the people back to the people.

Political game playing takes place in both major parties (as well as in the smaller ones) and has a tremendous effect on the way things are done...or NOT done. Those with power and influence make the rules. That's why, though the USA is one of the world's richest nations, we have people living in poverty on the streets or in run-down housing. That's why the minimum wage won't support a family of three with both parents working full time. That's why the average person can't afford to send their kids to college to better themselves and break the cycle. That's why we go into places like the middle east (where we can get control of oil) and not into other countries where injustice runs rampant.

What we need in this country is a revolution. I don't mean one of violence and fighting. I mean of a change of heart, where people dare to care and look out for one another. If we stop all this nonsense about looking out only for ourselves, everything would take care of itself. But, people have to be open enough to do that and they clearly are not. So, I don't foresee any changes comeing any time soon.

Is this the nation our forefathers created and envisioned? I doubt that very much. Is it a just nation? Not really. Is it a moral nation? Hardly! But, is it a nation in which I live and give support to in the good it does? You betcha!

We're spoiled. We've had things so good that these things seem offensive to us. Okay. Maybe they are too drastic. But, let's look at the ways in which WE respond to crisis. Don't we personally tend to overreact in order to avoid further catastrophy? I think most of us do. Things will balance out again. That doesn't make what's happening right. But, it does give us hope for a better tomorrow.

Ann

 

[Haltickling]

Thanks for all your interesting reactions. I’m not overly concerned about the isolated incidents; what worries me is the tendency towards totalitarianism. Police forces all over the world collect personal data about convicts and suspects, but if criticism against a momentarily prevailing direction of politics gets criminalized, then all my alarm bells ring like hell. History tells us exactly where this leads us into. And my worry goes out for the idea of ‘America’ and all the positive values it stands for. Thanks to all people who fight actively for this idea, like Joby and Kim.

Just allow me to react to a few selected specific statements:

Originally posted by AffectionateDan:
Meanwhile, they pass laws that none of us vote on and very few of us even know about, slowly chipping away at the Constitution and weaning us away from our rights.

Entirely my sentiments, Dan, especially the ‘weaning us away’ part. Slowly but surely, the rights for which your ancestors fought and strived get chipped away. And the most worrying aspect of it is that some of you don’t even notice it, or decide to ignore it.

Originally posted by asutickler:
Don't believe everything you hear on German TV. I'm sure their "news" is about as unbiased as the crap we get here.

Every piece of ‘news’ or ‘information’ on the media is biased somehow, as they are presented by humans. Only the degree of bias varies. That’s one of the reasons why I was trained to evaluate the source before evaluating the information itself. It would go far beyond the topic to give you all the info about “ARD” (the TV station), but I can assure you that they are highly reliable. Especially investigative reports like the one I mentioned must be corroborated, checked and rechecked before they get on air. The program itself is not financed by any party or lobby, but by a small fee (about 15 $ per month) all TV set owners must pay, regardless which program they watch. This ensures quite a lot of independent reports, some leaning to the conservative side, some others to the left. I doubt that any of the US TV stations are as independent. Just FYI.

 

[kurchatovium]

People are people whatever country they come from and as such often overreact to any given situation. Things are no different here. Why suddenly everyone is concerned that we are going to turn into some fasicist state is beyond me. As Ann said things will balance out again as cooler heads prevail and as the crisis of terrorism is dealt with. Why people don't seem to be as anxious over a economically troubled Russia possibly selling briefcase size nuclear weapons to the highest bidder I find curious.

To be honest, as well, I find the title of this thread to be somewhat reactionary. Is everyone outside the US so pristine that I could not find some isolated events and start a thread "Is this really France?" or "Is this really Italy?". Yes sure I will be the first to admit that things are not perfect here and they are often abuses of power but perhaps before one criticizes others one should make sure their own house is clean.

 

[Neutron]

How Many Of Ya'll...

Have served in the military? If not you have no right to bitch because you're whining about rights you did nothing to protect.

As for what Haltickling wrote. That's EXCACTLY the way it should be. I'd rather they be careful and maybe piss someone off then not and have ONE innocent American die.

Sorry folks, READ your constitution, You DO NOT have a right to fly, or drive, or scuba dive or any of what was just mentioned.
If you don't like how you're treated at an airport then walk to your destination. It's what our forefathers did.

AND if you want the right to bitch, THEN kindly joing the military and exercise what is a protected right, that being to bear arms.


Tron

 

[AffectionateDan]

But it's GOING to, Jo... it's going to.

I'd hate to see it reach that point.

Joby

I know it in my bones. I'm doing what I can to be ready if it happens in my lifetime, and raising my son to do the same. I hope the rest of us are as well. Right now, any individual who acts "Unpatriotically" will be ruined by The Machine. But eventually, those at the bottom of the pressure cooker WILL get tired of it, and it's gonna get ugly round these parts. And those people won't be cowed anymore by the media labelling them or the jackbooted thugs coming for them.

Silent Running - Mike + the Mechanics

Take the children and yourself
And hide out in the cellar
By now the fighting will be close at hand
Don't believe the church and state
And everything they tell you
Believe in me, I'm with the high command

Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?
Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?

There's a gun and ammunition
Just inside the doorway
Use it only in emergency
Better you should pray to God
The Father and the Spirit
Will guide you and protect from up here

Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?
Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?

Swear allegiance to the flag
Whatever flag they offer
Never hint at what you really feel
Teach the children quietly
For some day sons and daughters
Will rise up and fight while we stood still

Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?
Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?

 

[Biggles of 266]

Re: How Many Of Ya'll...

Sorry folks, READ your constitution, You DO NOT have a right to fly, or drive, or scuba dive or any of what was just mentioned.

what happened to the freedom of speech?

He expressed his anti-Bush and anti-war opinion quite clearly and unmistakably. A few days later, two FBI agents visited him and told him that they were ordered to write a report about him because of his anti-American statements.

the right to peacefully assemble?

After more investigation, she found out the reason for her name on the blacklist: She’s a member of a Christian peace movement and had participated in several peaceful anti-war demonstrations.

I don't even know the constitution in any serious sense, and I thought of these two examples. If you're guaranteed the right to free speech, why are old men reported for being anti-war? If you're allowed the right to peaceful assembly, why is a nun blacklisted for attending demonstrations? The old guy wasn't burning flags, the nun wasn't throwing rocks at police, so how are they exempt from the same rights as the rest of you?

 

[asutickler]

Re: Re: How Many Of Ya'll...

what happened to the freedom of speech?

Regardless of WHAT the guy said, I'm sure that the person who reported him to the FBI claimed that he (the old fellow) had made terroristic threats of some sort. If someone called the FBI to tell them that some 70 year old at a health club didn't like George Bush, the FBI would likely hang up on them. 🙄

the right to peacefully assemble?

That's the one that made me wonder. I didn't know that there WAS a list of folks who weren't allowed on airplanes... although it certainly makes sense. I would reserve judgement until I knew percicely which "Christian Peace Movement" the lady in question belonged to. Even the KKK refers to itself as a "Peaceful, Christian" organization these days. I wouldn't want to be on a flight with a member of the Klan any more than I would a member of Hamas. Furthermore, who's to say that she didn't become a nun AFTER being a member of some violent 60's radical group? Remember Sara Jane Olsen? Loving mother, respected community member, doctor's wife, and, oh yeah, former member of the SLA who tried to blow up two LAPD cars, officers and all? Hmmmmmmmmmm...

 

[kurchatovium]

The freedom of speech does not give you the right to yell "fire" in a crowded theatre. It does not mean that you can say anything you want and not be responsible for what you say. An example, my aunt who is fairly liberal has sent this president numerous letters against various policieis of his. No FBI agents ever came to her door. Why? She always phrased her letters very politely. Much like people are supposed to do at this forum. Now on the other hand if you are dumb enough to threaten the president or imply any kind of overthrow of the present goverment. Expect some FBI agents at your door. I don't know what was written in the letter, but if it got the FBI's attention there is something that was probably some sort of veiled threat.

 

[Texas_Tickle]

it has nothing to do with security, most of the hijackers were saudis, but in one of the new governments "security" measures is to make foriengers from certain middle eastern nations register with the state for monitering, but of course saudi arabia wasnt on it. its all greed and freedom hating politics

That's because 40% of our oil comes from Saudia Arabia.

President Bush knows where his bread (money) comes from, after all he is his pappy made there fortune in the oil business, before getting into politics.

Bush has had life served to him, on a silver platter, ever since day one.

 

[Texas_Tickle]

I like my country and the people who live here, but I don't like the government. Does that make me a threat?

Seems like it does.

Biggles

It does. If you refuse to "toe the line" and agree with everything you are told to agree to, you are a threat.

Anybody remeber a person named Hitler? That's how he got his start. Anybody who disagreed with his politics was labeled as a "traitor".

He even gassed his own General, because he dared to question Hitler's actions.

We are living in a time where a person who thinks for himself, and does not lap up anything and everything the media happens to be spewing, is "the enemy".

To Washington, a person who can think for himself, is a very dangerous threat.

 

[AffectionateDan]

And it's not common knowledge, but it's scary fact nevertheless...

It does. If you refuse to "toe the line" and agree with everything you are told to agree to, you are a threat.

Anybody remeber a person named Hitler? That's how he got his start. Anybody who disagreed with his politics was labeled as a "traitor".

He even gassed his own General, because he dared to question Hitler's actions.

We are living in a time where a person who thinks for himself, and does not lap up anything and everything the media happens to be spewing, is "the enemy".

To Washington, a person who can think for himself, is a very dangerous threat.

Not only is that true, but you mentioning that crazy paper-hangin' sumbitch reminds me...

The Gun Control laws that President Clinton and her husband Bill were trying to ram down our throats (and don't think THAT'S gone away, either, just because they have. That evil cow is gonna run for the Oval Office someday, you watch 😡 ), they read VERBATIM from the Gun Control Act of 1932, which ol' Adolf himself got passed. Look it up. It's well documented. They wanna take away your guns so you won't stand a chance when it comes time to fight the tyranny. Does the phrase "You'll take my guns from me when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers." ring any bells?