Here's the thing about this whole incident. No one is even taking the perspective that we only have seen a snippet of the WHOLE event. The only reason why people in this thread are reacting the way they are is because they don't understand the nature of spanking/corporal punishment. I really had to chuckle when it was said, "A spanking should be 2-7 light but at least moderately painful whaps on the ass to get the point across that they did something wrong.". Really? And this theory came into existence how if you are against spanking and did not receive spankings yourself? Funny stuff man...
Coming from the POV for a person who experienced spankings, with a belt, on my legs and ass, and received more than one spanking in his lifetime, what we saw on that footage was not as bad as people think. I will admit, when I first saw it, I was taken aback. That's when I drew on my own experiences and remembered that I would be taken aback if I watched my own spankings. You HAVE to keep it in perspective. You have to think as to why the event happened. I love the fact that people do not think that downloading music illegally is a bad thing. News flash. It IS bad. If a parent tells you not to do something like that, you don't. I hate to break this to you, but downloading music illegally is not on the same level as eating an extra cookie for example. Opponents are not paying attention to what they father is saying during the whole EDITED 7 MINUTE FOOTAGE. He is giving his exact reason as to why this is happening.
Another thing you have to pay attention to is where is the father hitting his daughter? Is he striking her head? Her upperbody? Did he draw blood? Is he attacking her when she has done nothing at all (i.e. she was minding her own business and he just went after her?). No, that's not the case in this footage. Was he upset? yes. Did he lose his temper? Yes. But to anyone who has received a spanking, was your parent's voice soothing when they were spanking you? Nope. They were yelling at you to get their point across.
The biggest problem is the edited footage. I wonder what we would see if the entire video was being played. What if afterwards, the father/daughter/mother all had a conversation where they went over what happened and everyone was calm and civil? This "beating" did not go on for the entire 7 minutes. There was dialogue in there. The father even addressed previous behavior. People are overlooking that because they are so focused on this "beating". I have been going around to people and asking them to watch the footage. I have been asking anti-spanking people, and people who received spankings. Pretty much went down that line. Anti-spanking people felt this was uncalled for and wrong, and those who received spankings pretty much said, "That's it? That is why people are mad? Man, they should have seen the spankings I got!" then laughed it off.
Perspective people, perspective. Those anti-spanking people will always see this as a horrendous beating. Your reaction is exactly the reaction the daughter/mother were hoping for as they attempt to blackmail the father. You are following the script perfectly. Of course, those who endured spankings can see that this perhaps was not as brutal as so many people are making it out to be. Different view points. I know I will not change the minds of the anti-spanking people. I know this. I am not saying that you are wrong in your opinion. It is your OPINION. But, I think it is fair and right for you to learn the different side of viewing things. To hear a different perspective. Sorry it rattled your cages a bit, but hey, that footage does not tell me that child was abused...
I was going to respond... right up until I realized that he was just making the same fucking points that I'd already addressed, just worded differently.
So many things wrong with this, but I'm not really as invested in arguing this as you are, so I'll just make some points where I think you're being silly:
1. I'm not anti-spanking, I was spanked as a child, and I think this is abuse. You seem to want to put pro- and anti-spanking camps as being the sides here, but it's not so simple, and I'm evidence of that.
2. Where an assailant strikes a victim, or if they draw blood has no bearing on whether something constitutes abuse. We can speculate all manner of things happened before or after what we see here, but that's speculation, and we're presented with actual evidence of something. It's nice to want context, but when it's not available, you have to deal with what you have, and what we have is a picture of abuse.
3. I hear the father's "reasoning" completely, but it does not justify the severity of his actions.
4. Condescension that having a different view from yours means someone is not thinking or is "following a script" doesn't fly with me or other thinking people.
The sad thing is, you really don't get the whole point. How about trying to look at it from a different perspective. Your advice on how to spank a child is well, funny. You haven't experienced a spanking, you're against it, and you're giving advice on how a spanking should be conducted?
Again, the viewpoint is all based on how you perceive what is happening in the footage. Is that too difficult for you to comprehend? We saw a 7 minute video of a parent disciplining his child. I guess you also missed the part where I said that I can understand why people would be so upset about the footage. What you fail to even comprehend is that there is 2 sides of the story. That my friend, is the problem I have with all this outrage. Again, I have invited others to watch the footage and the same opinions were made. There were some who said it was a beating, and there were others who said that was no "beating". Is it too difficult for your mind to even try to see another perspective? You're reacting as though I have no idea on what I'm talking about. Problem is, I think the same way of you.
Mormons don't drink coffee, should they beat their children for doing so? Some people teach their kids good manners, should they beat their kids if they don't say bless you when someone sneezes? Their house, their rules is extremely dangerous. Downloading music online is not doing blow, and it's not pulling a 9 out on some lady who jokes about candy.Let me try to explain what is really bothering me in the case. Because people saw this girl get a "beating" in their minds she can do no wrong and the father is a monster. So for those of you who are in the "she is an angel" camp what would happen if you walked into your children's bedroom and they had little bags of white powder on their desk. If you are any kind of parent you will not allow cocaine in your house. I am sure that there is even a house rule that says no drugs in the house and all of your children know it. It is your job as a "parent" to get that crap out of your house. You MUST in order to "protect" your children. Your house. Your rules.
In this case this man walked into his daughter's bedroom and what he saw he doing was the same as seeing her with little bags of white powder, a mirror, lines and a razor blade on her desk. HIS HOUSE. HIS RULES. HIS DAUGHTER. He has the right to protect his child from what HE sees is something horrible. When she fails to respond to his repeated attempts to correct her behavior because "Dad just doesn't understand how cool this music is" it is the same as her saying "Dad just doesn't understand how cool drugs are". As long as she is HIS under aged daughter she must live by HIS rules. That is a fundamental concept in every house in America. No one can tell your children that something is OK if YOU don't want your children to participate in that kind of thing. It is the same thing here.
I see that many of you believe that a child should never be touched for any reason. If that works in your world then I am happy for you. In my world a woman on Halloween night walks up to a child that she knows from the neighborhood and jokingly tells him that she is going to eat all of his candy. That 10 year old child pulls out a 9mm hand gun that he got from his grandfather's gun collection, points it at the woman and says, "No you won't BITCH!" She then has to stand there while the child screams at her looking down the barrel of a gun. Not knowing if she is going to die in the next few seconds. Yes, this happened just a few weeks ago. If that was my 10 year old I would go into his bedroom and take off my belt. And it would last a lot longer than 7 minutes. And he would be told that if he even looked at his grandfather's guns again, he would get the same punishment every day for a week. Because a few minutes of pain NOW will stop that bad behavior and in this case, may save someone's life. And please don't quote me studies from psychologists that don't even have children. If I am being too cruel, then tell me what you would do...
Here's the thing about this whole incident. No one is even taking the perspective that we only have seen a snippet of the WHOLE event. The only reason why people in this thread are reacting the way they are is because they don't understand the nature of spanking/corporal punishment. I really had to chuckle when it was said, "A spanking should be 2-7 light but at least moderately painful whaps on the ass to get the point across that they did something wrong.". Really? And this theory came into existence how if you are against spanking and did not receive spankings yourself? Funny stuff man...
Now, this is where the word you use most "Perspective" comes into play. Downloading music is a crime, but this is where Perspective comes into play. It is such a small infraction, so tiny a crime in it's scope, that people need to realize this. Here is a paper which touches on downloading of music.Coming from the POV for a person who experienced spankings, with a belt, on my legs and ass, and received more than one spanking in his lifetime, what we saw on that footage was not as bad as people think. I will admit, when I first saw it, I was taken aback. That's when I drew on my own experiences and remembered that I would be taken aback if I watched my own spankings. You HAVE to keep it in perspective. You have to think as to why the event happened. I love the fact that people do not think that downloading music illegally is a bad thing. News flash. It IS bad. If a parent tells you not to do something like that, you don't. I hate to break this to you, but downloading music illegally is not on the same level as eating an extra cookie for example. Opponents are not paying attention to what they father is saying during the whole EDITED 7 MINUTE FOOTAGE. He is giving his exact reason as to why this is happening.
http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/4206.htmlwhich consisted of monitoring 1.75 million downloads over 17 weeks in 2002,
Another thing you have to pay attention to is where is the father hitting his daughter? Is he striking her head? Her upperbody? Did he draw blood? Is he attacking her when she has done nothing at all (i.e. she was minding her own business and he just went after her?). No, that's not the case in this footage. Was he upset? yes. Did he lose his temper? Yes. But to anyone who has received a spanking, was your parent's voice soothing when they were spanking you? Nope. They were yelling at you to get their point across.
The biggest problem is the edited footage. I wonder what we would see if the entire video was being played. What if afterwards, the father/daughter/mother all had a conversation where they went over what happened and everyone was calm and civil? This "beating" did not go on for the entire 7 minutes. There was dialogue in there. The father even addressed previous behavior. People are overlooking that because they are so focused on this "beating". I have been going around to people and asking them to watch the footage. I have been asking anti-spanking people, and people who received spankings. Pretty much went down that line. Anti-spanking people felt this was uncalled for and wrong, and those who received spankings pretty much said, "That's it? That is why people are mad? Man, they should have seen the spankings I got!" then laughed it off.
We have plenty of prospective, Prime, and it's not in your favor. I do agree with you that different prospectives can be very useful, but sometimes those prospectives are utter bullshit, and need to be called out for them. I'm sure there are people who, in their prospective, feel that beating their wives is a good thing, as it keeps them submissive and less likely to disagree with them. Most intelegent people can call bullshit on that.Perspective people, perspective. Those anti-spanking people will always see this as a horrendous beating. Your reaction is exactly the reaction the daughter/mother were hoping for as they attempt to blackmail the father. You are following the script perfectly. Of course, those who endured spankings can see that this perhaps was not as brutal as so many people are making it out to be. Different view points. I know I will not change the minds of the anti-spanking people. I know this. I am not saying that you are wrong in your opinion. It is your OPINION. But, I think it is fair and right for you to learn the different side of viewing things. To hear a different perspective. Sorry it rattled your cages a bit, but hey, that footage does not tell me that child was abused...
As for what the father was saying during the interaction, the cursing was a bit disturbing, but again, how do conversations go during a typical spanking? Parents are screaming to the top of their lungs and say all kinds of things. The below clip is from a stand up comedian and is supposed to be funny, but there is a lot of truth as to what he is saying. The words he is using is pretty typical. Now if he wasn't telling jokes, and this was a real conversation, people would be in a uproar. That's why the audience is laughing. There is TRUTH in what he is saying.
Just because you saw it and didn't like it, doesn't mean it was wrong. There is a big difference between that video and the video of an actual beating.
Bottom line is this, the judge disciplined his daughter according to how he saw fit. Just because you saw it and didn't like it, doesn't mean it was wrong. There is a big difference between that video and the video of an actual beating.
primetime said:Bottom line is this, the judge disciplined his daughter according to how he saw fit. Just because you saw it and didn't like it, doesn't mean it was wrong. There is a big difference between that video and the video of an actual beating.
Capn'n, have you ever witnessed your own spankings on video?
I beat people would say you were "beaten" too.
That's the point of all this.
Yes, I am being condescending. I give back what I receive from others...
There's also a few HUGE differences between a stand-up comedian making jokes, and a guy who turns off the lights before promising to beat his daughter into submission.
We're not living in the 1800s anymore. This logic is flawed in so many ways.
You consider physical assault discipline.
Maybe I consider waterboarding discipline. Can I waterboard my children? (It doesn't even leave any marks *winkwink*)
No.
No, they wouldn't. I was there. I know what took place. You were not, and you do not know -- or are you extending your powers of speculation here as well, to assume something of which you have not even a video clip to work from?
Then your point is wrong.
>shrug< Like I said, I'm less invested than you. Enjoy your argument.
So what you're saying is, spankings should not be allowed period? After all, even your "2-7 light to moderate swats" would be considered a "physical assault"....
Yeah, waterboarding. Well, if you feel it is necessary to do so, then go right ahead...*winkwink*
How old do I think a child has to be for a parent to stop using corporal punishment on the child? Depends on the family. A spanking might not be enough of a deterrent once a child gets to a certain age. Why? The kid knows the spanking will be within 5 minutes or so. When I was a teenager, my mother gave me the option of a spanking or being grounded. I chose the spanking. It all depends on the child and the parent. Haven't you heard this saying before? "Boy I don't care how old you are! You disrespect me and I will still beat your ass down!" This can be told to a 25 year old. It depends on the individual family. There is no right or wrong answer on that.
How many times/how much damage is a parent allowed to hit a child when they do feel the need to punish them? Again, depends on the situation. There is no "magic" amount for you to know this. Which is why I laughed my ass off over the "2-7 light to moderately painful..." suggestion. A good parent knows when to stop.
"What is a crime that deserves physical punishment? From your post, i'm guessing stealing a cookie from the cookie jar probably isn't, but walking across the street before the sign turns on to walk is." Um, no. Cute though... Hate to break this to you, but downloading music illegally is far more serious than jay-walking. No one gets sued for jay-walking... As for physical punishment, it depends on what the offense is. It could be simply for backtalking a parent. It could be for breaking something valuable. It could be by not doing my chores when I was supposed to do it. It could be for fighting with my sibling. It really does depend. Pretty much, the offense would be the same as though you wanted to ground them instead. What act deserves grounding? It all depends on the "family rules".
The problem i see with all of your answers, is that your protraying the issues as highly subjective. Now, i can understand this to a degree. After all, there is no manuel for being a parent, and there is always going to be a grey area when it comes to parenting. The problem with your answers though is just how much of a grey area they create. Using your examples, I could beat the fuck out of my 25 year old daughter for talking back to me, because those are the rules i've made and I feel like i'm being a good parent because i'm teaching her.