Just want some advice on a really important life issue.

[cryingfreeman]

Hello everyone. I hope you all had a wonderful holiday. Mine hasn't been so good. I've been best friends with 2 people for many years, for privacy reasons we'll call them Darnell and Eric. I've known Darnell since 1st grade and Eric since freshman year. We've had our ups and downs. But Eric and I just got fed up with Darnell taking advantage of us. I can't tell you how many times he asked us to borrow money and then an hour after we pay for him he pulls out a 10 or 20 spot to buy himself something. He always claims that he didn't know, that he thought he was broke. Who would believe that? Who doesn't check their wallet before they leave their home? Even if it were true not once did he do the considerate thing and pay us back. He spent the money in our faces. The one time I confronted him about it he got mad at me for raising my voice and getting in his face. He even tricked us into paying for his date with his then girlfriend. One day he called Eric and me and invited us to hangout in Hoboken with him and his girl. When we got there he said that she wanted to shoot pool so we did. At the end of the night before we went to pay he pulled us aside and asked if Eric and I could pay for them because he had no money. We told him to ask his girl to chip in and he said no because the man should pay. We were so pissed but we paid cause we had no choice. Then he had the nerve to ask us to wait with her until she caught a cab cause he had to go home. We did but for her not for him. We just wanted to make sure she was safe. Eric and I always take turns paying for dinner. He never offers. The 1 time we asked him to he asked if we had money. We said yes but we told him it's about time he paid since it's always Eric or me. After a lot of convincing he paid but kept griping about it the whole night. Eric and I got pissed. All the times we paid for him and all the times Eric and I took turns paying for dinners when we all hung out and he's bitching for one time and it wasn't even expensive. It was about 25 dollars not including tip. When Eric or I paid we ate at places like in Chinatown or Jekyll & Hyde where the bill's more than a hundred.

He's also a hypocrite. He does things to us that he thinks is ok but if we do anything remotely close to similar to him he gets pissed. 1 time he was grinding on my girl and claimed he was just watching her for me. But that night we paid for him and his girl at the pool hall he disappeared for a while. When he came back I was helping his girl set her shot and standing over her and helping her aim. He pulled me aside and told me that I was standing to close to her. I was pissed but didn't say anything. When we tease each other he tells us not to take it too far or what things are off limits to crack about but he took so many low blows at me and Eric. 1 time he threw the fact that I was date raped right in my face in front of Eric and my then girlfriend. I was so pissed I wanted to break his jaw but my girl held me back. He apologized later but the fact that he did it when he already knew that it was a sensitive subect for me is what really pissed me off. It showed that he didn't care how I felt as long as he got a really good insult in at me.

And he's so damn selfish. It's always about what him and what he wants. Every time he came over my house, it didn't matter whether I was watching a dvd or Eric was already playing xbox, he would tell us to put on the game he wanted to play. And if we didn't he would keep telling us until we did. 1 time he called and asked if he could sleep over and I told him yes but that my adopted brother was sleeping over too and that we planned to watch a movie the next day and asked if he would like to join us. The next day when we got to the theater he kept saying he didn't want to watch that movie knowing full well we already planned it. So my adopted brother relented and chose the one Darnell wanted. I was so pissed. There were so many times where Eric and I made plans to go somewhere and we'd invite him and when it was something he didn't like he would try to make us change it. If he did go he would bitch the entire time and ruin it for us.

For a long time Eric and I looked the other way cause he's our best friend and we love him like a brother. But what he did this past Thursday was the final straw. He gave me an antivirus for my laptop but when I installed it, it gave me a virus instead. Eric and my cousin were there. I had to pay more than a hundred dollars to fix it. I told him and he made every excuse why he shouldn't have to pay me but I told him that he had to. I told him any other time I would let it go but he knew I got laid off months earlier and was short on money. I told him I needed the money to go Christmas shopping. So he told me he would pay me on the 22nd. The 22nd rolled around and he kept making every excuse in the book why he couldn't pay me. I was fucking furious. I told him again that I needed it to go Christmas shopping and I didn't want to do the shopping lat minute. Then he told me he would pay me the next morning and that he would add interest. The next morning he texted me and said that he didn't count the money and all he had in his wallet was a little more than half what he said he would pay. I knew he was making another excuse so he wouldn't have to pay me the full amount. I was so fucking pissed that he would do that to me so close to Christmas just because he didn't want to give me the money. I told him I had enough of his shit and told him we were done. I told him don't call or text me anymore, just lose my number. All he said was ok. That's when I finally woke up and realized he didn't care about me or my feelings. All he cared about was the money. He didn't want to pay me cause he wanted it for himself. He didn't care that I needed it to buy my family Christmas presents. This is the 1st Christmas since I started working at 16 that I didn't buy presents for anyone. And it's because of that selfish asshole. When I told Eric he was as pissed as I was.

And now he's posting on fb that we stabbed him in the back and abused him making it look like we're the bad guys and he's the victim. He posted that I ended our friendship with him and that Eric took my side without even talking to him but Eric witnessed everything from day 1. Yet he never called Eric nor has he called me since our last conversation. I don't think we'll ever be friends again. It's too much for Eric and me. We're through being taken advantage of. And we have a feeling he's not going to change or apologize so our friendship with him is over. Are we wrong? Should we give him another chance? He said he's hurt but he hasn't done anything to rectify the situation nor has he stated that he would. Not that I think it's possible. Christmas is over so paying me now is useless. It's too late to buy presents for my loved ones. I'm just torn. It hurts like hell. He was one of our best friends and we love him like a brother but I'm not sure anymore that he feels the same way, that he ever felt the same way. I feel like I can't believe a word he says. I feel like I can't trust him anymore. And no one can be friends with some one they can't trust. I'm sorry to put all this on you. I just wanted an outsider's perspective. Thanks.

 

[Em Es]

Two things

You should edit your post into several paragraphs. It will look much more inviting to read.

Second thing, with 20/20 hindsight I've realized I should have cut my losses with friends and even relatives who took me for granted long before I finally did. But these days I at least pick up on the warning signs a lot faster.

 

[BlackestLily]

Judging by the *ahem* length of this rant, I do believe you already know what a good friend does and doesn't do.

You can decide if you want him in your life without our help I think. Keeping him in your life isn't right or wrong, but know that if you continue to be friends with him, his behavior won't change. It will continue to be everything it's always been, and if you're okay with that, then continue to be friends. If not, then don't. Or discontinue spending time with him in any places that require money. And if he asks for loans, refuse to give them no matter the reason. Simply respond, "I'm sorry, I can't." And repeat as necessary, because it's apparently definitely true.

As Abby says, no one can take advantage of you unless you let them.

Good luck, and sorry about the presents, but I'm sure people are understanding if you don't have a job. 🙂

As a reference point, I had a friendship similar to this, but it was my emotional giving and her emotional taking, rather than money. I loved her like a sister but I had enough. I decided we would both be happier without contact, and I was right.

 

[asutickler]

Some people in this world are just scumbag freeloaders, plain and simple. After a while, this guy will probably come back and try to buddy up to you again. I hope you remember the way you feel right now so that you can tell him to go screw himself. These folks can be tough to get rid of. Especially if they're a family member or close friend.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

Life is all about choices, and the choices you have made so far, for understandable reasons, have allowed your relationship with this guy to get to this point. You have to assume that he isn't going to change - people rarely do. If you want to be happy then you've got to be the one to make the necessary changes. If that means accepting his friendship back and changing the way you handle him, fine. If it means that you need to eliminate him from your life entirely, there's nothing wrong with that either. But at this point, you know what this guy is all about, and if you allow him to continue to treat you this way, then you'll be the one responsible for your own unhappiness.

Find people who make you happy and surround yourself with them. Anyone else can fuck off.

 

[WorkInProgress]

I have three comments to offer, and they'll be brief.

1. About money: It's one thing to be generous with money when you have it, and another thing to give so much money to a freeloader that you are without the means to do your normal gift-buying and other spending. That was a mistake.

2. About friendship: There are friendships that you choose as an adult, friendships that carry from childhood into adulthood, and friendships that don't successfully make the transition. There are also friendships that you truly want in your life versus friendships that you carry on just to be nice. The night after tomorrow, I'm getting together with a lady who is nothing but a first-class pain-in-the-ass, and I'm doing it purely to be a nice guy. Point it, you have to be realistic about what a relationship is and what it isn't, choose what you're willing to do and what you're not willing to do, and know what the consequences will be.

(Another autobiographical note, tying it all together: There are friends in my life who are broke, and with whom I insist on paying for everything when we get together, but that didn't happen when I wasn't making a professional salary, and it will stop dead in its tracks next year if I lose the professional salary I currently have.)

3. About paragraph breaks: I agree with Em Es that you need them.

Good luck. And I also wish him good luck keeping a girlfriend, if he (a) gets his friends to do his work for him and (b) is possessive of her when his friend is standing next to her. He has a lot to learn.

 

[usgrant]

You can trust people... except when it pertains to money or real estate.

 

[Bizkit]

You should edit your post into several paragraphs. It will look much more inviting to read.

The thread page opened and all I saw was a massive collection of letters.



Great advice has already been given but in my own words,it sounds like nothing but drama. Sometimes in life it's best to exclude people from your own when the result of the relationship is unnecessary,avoidable bulls**t.I don't you or your ability to read people but you need to be weary of shady indivduals,and there's plenty of them.

 

[Jagermeistered]

Sound stressful!! Giving the thought you typed this up with a lot of stress - too break, and make a cognizant statement....

Give a thought for yourself...

Take a breath...

And, find a New Friend... He is a Jackass!!

 

[Knox The Hatter]

There are friendships that you choose as an adult, friendships that carry from childhood into adulthood, and friendships that don't successfully make the transition. There are also friendships that you truly want in your life versus friendships that you carry on just to be nice.

Well put.

You know, in my experience, charity as a basis for a friendship only betokened future disasters. There are people you simply can't do this with.

If you keep dealing with this shitstain, how does it reflect upon you?

 

[miskiduk]

You should edit your post into several paragraphs. It will look much more inviting to read.

Second thing, with 20/20 hindsight I've realized I should have cut my losses with friends and even relatives who took me for granted long before I finally did. But these days I at least pick up on the warning signs a lot faster.

On both counts this is the best advice you could possibly hope to receive.

 

[Mitchell]

freeman, I'm sorry to hear what happened to you.

Simply put, Darnell sounds like a jackass and a user. He has come up with every excuse in the book not to act like a friend.

I know a bit how you feel. My friendship with my best friend of 29 years ended about two months ago, and I know it sucks.

However, you deserve to be treated better than Darnell treated you. I would be seriously pissed at him that he owed you money which prevented you from buying Xmas gifts. That, the giving you a virus on your comp, and some of the other things you mentioned, all sound like dealbreakers to me.

Personally, I would lose him.

Mitch

 

[TropicThunder]

You already know what you have to do, and you've done it. Cut this guy out of your life because he's not a good friend, and you know why.

You're only feeling bad because you're still reeling from all the backlash of him posting on FB and things like that. You and Eric know the truth about him, and you guys need to move on. You're not wrong, and you just need to give yourself time away from him to be able to see how much better you'll feel.

 

[cryingfreeman]

Thanks everyone. I did as you requested and edited the post into paragraphs. Sorry about that i just started typing and before I knew it I typed this whole long diatribe. I was angry and just made a snap choice without really thinking about it and I just wanted to know if I made the right one. I was only second-guessing myself because we had been friends for more than 2 decades and wasn't sure it was worth throwing all that away because he stiffed me on some money he owed me but my family and my other friends are telling me I did the right thing and that he's a user. They're doing the same. They took him off their friends list on fb and they stopped talking to him altogether. I feel better about my decision, not really good or happy, but better. Thanks again for listening and enjoy the rest of the holidays.

 

[locker669]

What you shouldn't' do is reply to anything he says on Facebook. Sooner or later everyone will see the guy for what he really is.

 

[Jagermeistered]

What you shouldn't' do is reply to anything he says on Facebook. Sooner or later everyone will see the guy for what he really is.

^Correct.

 

[asutickler]

What you shouldn't' do is reply to anything he says on Facebook. Sooner or later everyone will see the guy for what he really is.

This is excellent advice... Trash always reveals itself. Even if everyone can't see it at first, eventually they can't help but smell it.

 

[rhiannon]

You know, after all that shit he does, why didn't you cut contact with him a long time ago? You write he was your best friend...care to elaborate why?? Is there anything good about him that makes him be a friend??

Compared to everything you described, the virus-software-thing was really nothing bad unless he did it on purpose! How was it his fault that the program didn't work right?

 

[cryingfreeman]

We've known each other since first grade. He was there for me when my father died and in turn I was there for him when his great aunt died. We grew up together. He didn't start acting the way I described earlier until about 12 years ago when he finally started working. With the antivirus I know it was an accident but I liken it to a car accident. If someone made a turn and hit your car by accident you would still have that person pay for the damages, right? Like I stated earlier, normally I wouldn't care but I was laid off months ago and money is tight for me right now. The fact that I told him I needed the money to buy Christmas gifts and he still made every excuse not to pay me is what I'm mad about. Keeping his money is more important to him than his friend in need. That's what hurts. He just emailed me saying he wants to straighten things out. I told him I'd meet with him. I'm not taking him back as a friend I just want to see what he's planning to do to make amends, how far he'll go to save our friendship.

 

[rhiannon]

He didn't start acting the way I described earlier until about 12 years ago

12 years is time enough to tell someone who acts like a total asshole to go to hell. I wouldn't even have put up with something like this for a year. Why would you want to be friends with someone you don't like to be around?

With the antivirus I know it was an accident but I liken it to a car accident. If someone made a turn and hit your car by accident you would still have that person pay for the damages, right?

That is a little different! The car driver didn't pay attention, so it was his fault he hit your car. It was not his fault that you got a virus on your computer. Definitely not. I understand why he doesn't want to pay you for it. I sure wouldn't if I was him.

But you should have stopped "borrowing" him money a looooooooooong time ago.

 

[WorkInProgress]

I had missed the antivirus part. I don't know much about these things, but I don't see how an antivirus program, if that's really what it is, can give you a virus. In any case, I think it's a good rule only to let people work on your compute who know what they're doing.

 

[cryingfreeman]

He gave me the antivirus knowing that it was 4 years old but he didn't tell me. I uploaded it onto my laptop and it gave me a virus instead. I thought that uninstalling it would get rid of it but the virus stayed. Later when I asked him for the money he argued that he told the antivirus was old and there was a high possiblity that it was corrupted but he never told me that. He said he did but that I don't remember. That's when I got pissed. Eric and my cousin were there when he gave me the antivirus. They even told him he was lying. They were there when I installed it and got the virus so he can't say I'm just blaming him so he would have to pay for it.

This is not the first time he's done that. I let him use my laptop before and it got a virus. The virus was so bad it completely destroyed the hard drive. I called him and asked him what he looked at and he said he just checked email but if that's the case why did he leave the room with my laptop. When I did a check on the history a minute before it crashed I found many xxx sites. Plus the laptop itself was damaged. I couldn't even turn on the laptop after it crashed. When I brought it to the shop they told me some components were damaged inside and that I was better off getting a brand new one. So I told Darnell. It was $25 for the diagnosis, $875 for the new laptop, and $100 to install microsoft, an antivirus & other components. Altogether it was $1000. I even showed him the receipt. He told Eric and a mutual coworker of theirs that I was just using him as a scapegoat to pay for it and that he wasn't going to fall for it and that I had no proof what he was looking at. When I heard that I called him up and cursed him out. Then he started telling me he said no such things and called Eric and the coworker liars. Eric cursed him out when I told him. Even when he agreed to pay me he kept stalling. I told him I understood that he had to pay in installments but $20 a month until the $1000 was payed up? I got so pissed that I chewed him out so then he started paying $200 a paycheck but kept bitching about it. When he was finally paid up he threw an attitude saying I can finally back up off him when the only reason I pressed him was because he was pulling what he pulled on me now. He kept making every excuse not to pay me and when he did decide to he kept postponing or giving chump change.

This is not the first time he called Eric a liar. Eric and I went to a bar and met a girl. She took a liking to me and we exchanged numbers. The next week I introed her to Darnell and he took a liking to her. He asked me if there was anything going on between us and I said no because I had just broken up with a girl and I wanted to take it easy for a while. So I told him go ahead. One weekend I didn't show up so she hung out with him. When I showed up the weekend after that she stayed by my side the whole night and was hugging up all over me. The next day he was talking shit about me saying I'm a woman stealer to Eric and a couple of mutual coworkers. Eric got pissed and called me on the spot and Darnell took the phone and said Eric was lying but when I went there the next day their coworkers even told me that the things he was saying were fucked up. That's another reason why Eric is pissed at him. We're being the truest friends we can be to each other and he's screwing us around.

 

[Bugman]

Based on what you have posted here I'd say just walk away and be done with it. It's unlikely you will ever see any of the money he owes you. Been there, done that. I would cut off all contact and chalk it up in the oh well column.

 

[mabus]

Your "friend" is what's called an asshole.

And you and "Eric" were idiots for enabling him to be an asshole over and over and over and over again.

And I use "idiot" in love and not an insult, because I've been an idiot as well. I've enabled people....for much shorter times, but long enough to become a problem, to use me or manipulate me. We all have.

It's turned me into a "take no shit from anyone" kind of person I am now.

But every time you tolerated it, let it go, and then pain him gain, it reinforced his shitty behavior. You need to stand up, be tough about it, or do nothing! from now on.

You don't have to always be all up in people's faces. I'm not, I'm the most unconfrontational person you'll meet. But I won't enable anymore.

Hit them with reality.

You: "I don't have enough money."

Asshole: (perplexed, yet smugly) "But, but, but, I didn't bring any money!"

You: "No, you don't understand. I physically don't have the money. My dinner cost $18. I brought $20. I have one dollar and change left. Here is my almost empty wallet. No, I don't have any credit cards left, I cut them up so I could get out of debt."

There's no YOU HAVE TO BECAUSE HE DIDN'T BRING ANY MONEY. That's bullshit.
Later on, if you're with someone, and they walk into a crowd of thugs, scream racial obscenities, and then get arrested for starting a fight, will you take the jail time for them and all the resulting years of chaos if he said "Well, I can't really go to jail, my friends are waiting for me...."?

You're probably a nice guy who fell for an asshole. You can be a nice guy and not:
1: Enable shitty behavior,
2: Be a nice guy and not get scammed, ripped off, etc. also.

There was a guy on the radio yesterday who was being offered something by a "friend" while he was very occupied with other stuff, and to get rid of the friend, signed papers that got him in an expensive contarct. He signed it, he's stuck. A "friend" wouldn't trick you into signing anything knowing you're distracted and not telling you the full results of everything, as one example.

You know, this whole definition of "friend" needs to be looked back over by a lot of people here. I had to, and still have to, honestly. Many girls and guys are terrified of being "outed" as having a tickle fetish.

It's really no one's business.....but if your "friends" have a problem with something so utterly mundane, they were never your friends. If you have to hide your political views, religious views, sexual orientation or likes, hell, basic opinions....those people are not your friends.

If my friends knew I had a tickle fetish, and pantyhose/nylon fetish, and rejected me because of it...SCREW THEM. I don't need that judgemental crap in my life, life's too damn short. I have friends who are conservative religious, athiests, pagans, gay, straight, liberal Democrat, conservative Republican. They all know where I stand, and I know where they stand.
There are "friends" I've had that have stopped being friends with me because of views I've held...and ironicaly, the utterly tame beliefs.

I still don't miss them.

 

[Mitchell]

freeman, take it from someone who put up with shit from a "Best friend" for 12 years. People never change.

Case in point: I used to call my now ex "Best friend" every Thursday, same time, to make plans for the day. The guy never answered the phone, or took my calls, and always made me wait, sometimes 45 minutes to call me back. Know why? He acts like a 2 year old. His mother told him to fuck me over, and he listened.

Then, he gets this new girlfriend. Fine. We've both had times we had new gfs, and had to adjust. Difference is, I always made time for him. This guy used to see his parents twice a week, and wanted to see his gf, but wanted to cut time with me, his friend of 29 years. How did he know the relationship with the new gf is going to last? Me.. his best friend.. who has been there for him through thick and thin.

You may have read that my mom has cancer. She's gone to the hospital a few times. Last time I was there, he didnt even call, or come visit, even once, yet, he made time to go see his parents, and his new gf.

People usually pile up offenses, all of which are deal breakers. Once my "Best friend" didnt come see me in the hospital, and blew me off for everyone else, I knew it was time to lose him. It hurt.. a lot.. at first, and Thursdays are still weird at times, but.. it's getting better, and will continue to.. that on top of my mom having cancer, I dont have to put up with his shit too.

The thing with the virus checker is just.. evil. Who gives a friend a virus checker that's four years old, knows its bad, ruins their computer, and then expects the friend to absorb the cost? No. Evil on two fronts. That he gave you the virus and ruined your comp in the first place, and that he expected you to cover the damage to it.

Also, in my experience, when people want to act like assholes, you can scream, yell, curse them out, and if they dont want to change, they dont. I cant tell you how many times I spent Thursdays on the phone screaming at my ex best friend about how he treated me. He never listened. All he heard was his mother "Cast Mitch aside, treat Mitch like shit". The bitch had a vendetta against me. His sister hates his mother's guts, because his mother is an abusive c'nt, and his mother blames me for "showing the sister the way", because I dont talk to my father". Stupid, right? The mother did everything to screw our friendship, and my ex best friend was so whacked, he listened to her. When I accused him of having her control our friendship, he lied to me, and told me she never told him to disinclude me with his other friends. Bullshit. I know he's lying. Soo,. all it did, was cost him his best friend of 29 years. '

freeman, I'm sorry to say again, people do not change, unless they want to. Once an asshole, always an asshole. I cant tell you how many times my father hooked me back in "Oh, I miss you, love you, blah blah", and he did the same shit. Unless you lose people like that, they will continue to do shit.

I would tell Darnell to go fuck himself, permanently. I know it hurts, but.. it's better than being treated like shit. My mom knows I still hurt some about what my ex best friend did to me, but she also knows it's better that I'm not taking his shit anymore.

I seriously hope you dont go back with him. I value relationships, greatly, but,, once people keep doing the same repetitive shit to fuck you over, they are showing they dont give a shit, about the friendship, relationship, etc. I know if I went back with my ex best friend, he would act the same way, and I have a strong feeling Darnell will too if you continue to put up with his crap.

Seriously, lose him. It will hurt now, but you will be better off in the long run.

Mitch