Let's clear up the Chat Room once and for all- this post has been a long time brewing

[Libertine]

If this is controversial, it's because there's a need for it.

I'm increasingly disinclined to visit the chat room because of the general rudeness and (dare I say) stupidity, illiteracy, txt spk and uncouth behaviour which is becoming increasingly apparent there. On a few occasions I and people I know have been subjected to some pretty nasty insults or stupid propositions and it's getting pretty tiresome- legions of so-called f/f lesbian cheerleaders with DDs or morons whose idea of introducing themselves is to pm unannounced with 'Wat hot babez you lik to tkle?' Basically the place seems to have become a haven for underage members who enjoy holding their own members while spouting rubbish, though I certainly commend their ability to type one-handed.

I've noticed that people who've been TMF stalwarts for years are staying out of Chat in droves, and those still patient enough to enter it are overwhelmed by random idiots. And random idiots are easy to spot, because I've done a fair bit of research. The worst of the bunch are invariably characterised by their complete lack of posts, no matter how long they've been registered here.

Therefore I propose a solution to this problem, a solution which will have the simultaneous and threefold effect of

• leaving those who have truly contributed to the TMF completely unaffected,
• allowing those neophytes who are intelligent and well-intentioned to introduce and acquaint themselves with the rest of the group and also with the way the forum runs,
• and most important, removing those whose participation is solely one-sided.

The answer is to restrict entry, both retroactively and henceforth, to the chat room (and only the chat room, not the rest of the site) to those who've made 20 sensible/reasonable mod-verified posts in the rest of the forums, on any topics they wish to discuss or on any threads to which they'd like to reply. I'm sure the software already exists or a program could easily be written to flag these for the mods' attention. Posting worthless messages in order to reach the required number of posts more quickly will only result in extending the probationary status. I reiterate that non-posters are welcome to any of the other benefits the TMF has to offer, but the chat room should be reserved for friends, rather than enabling the participation of trolls or parasites. And the mods will find it far easier to police if this suggestion is implemented.

Any replies from those who've had sufficient interest in 'our' Forum and taken the time to make at least 20 posts? Replies from real women (rather than the aforementioned cheerleaders) especially welcome- I know how annoying the room can be for you after seeing a few of the trolls resident therein that Wife has attracted on occasion.

 

[Myriads]

The software does not exist to flag "20 sensible/reasonable mod-verified posts "

Each member would need to be reviewed by hand.

Given my staffing level I figure I can get thru the 200,000 members around 2020 or so if I dedicate all active moderation resources to nothing but verifying "20 sensible/reasonable mod-verified posts " per member.

I can lock out anyone who has not posted 20 times. Of course one can make 20 posts in the silly stuff forum in a few minutes. So that's a pretty low hurdle.

The chat room is not for 'special' members. Or long term members, or any special class of member. Its for all members so long as they stay within our operating rules.

Many people who are currently on the forum. (Crystallite is a good example) first entered the forum thru the chatroom. They had never posted and were chat regulars, who later moved to the forum and contributed. Had I some posting hurdle for them to leap they would not be active valued community members today.

People have PMed without permission from day one of the room
The swarm of F/F members have been there and active since 2003 During the 'good old days' of the room.
Text speak, Leat speak, and general bad grammar has been part of the web since the first internet rooms, and trying to grammar nazi it into some form of order is bailing the ocean with a spoon. Do I like it? No. Can I stop it? No. I learned to ignore those who can't take the time to be understood, much as I weed drunk and high people out of conversations. I'm an old guy, but I learned to filter.

I regret that you find the room in a phase that you don't enjoy. It happens. There are some other tickle chats out there, perhaps they are in a better place currently.

As I've always said if the TMF room stops being used and enjoyed it's easy to shut down and save us a serious amount of yearly fees.

Myriads

 

[Leo tickles]

That would be eletist... easily abusable, and generally bad.

Increasing the amount of chat mods would be an easier solution. If those who frequent the chatroom a lot, and have proven over the years to be respectable, unbiased people become mods, things would be a lot better in there.

 

[trifalcon4]

i am willing to facilitate the TMF population slice that consists of cute, moderately to extremely sexy female rocket scientists, in their chatting endeavors. i will fearlessly police their chat conversations in order to help the mods make TMF a better place!

 

[Libertine]

I can lock out anyone who has not posted 20 times. Of course one can make 20 posts in the silly stuff forum in a few minutes. So that's a pretty low hurdle.

As low a hurdle as setting the software to disqualify posts made on the Silly Stuff Forum and similar places like 'Self-Referential' or 'Person Above You'?

The chat room is not for 'special' members. Or long term members, or any special class of member. Its for all members so long as they stay within our operating rules.

The Mods can't be everywhere- can we not make their jobs easier?

Many people who are currently on the forum. (Crystallite is a good example) first entered the forum thru the chatroom. They had never posted and were chat regulars, who later moved to the forum and contributed. Had I some posting hurdle for them to leap they would not be active valued community members today.

Might not. I've spoken to Crystal IRL at several NESTs, highly respect her intelligence, and strongly suspect those 20 posts would have taken her no time at all. If the desire's there the posts will be made.

People have PMed without permission from day one of the room
The swarm of F/F members have been there and active since 2003 During the 'good old days' of the room.
Text speak, Leat speak, and general bad grammar has been part of the web since the first internet rooms, and trying to grammar nazi it into some form of order is bailing the ocean with a spoon. Do I like it? No. Can I stop it? No. I learned to ignore those who can't take the time to be understood, much as I weed drunk and high people out of conversations. I'm an old guy, but I learned to filter.

Wouldn't pre-filtering make life easier? You have at least ten mods at your disposal, and those 20 posts (or less if you feel that's more appropriate) would not arrive all at once, but rather in easily digestible dribs and drabs. Nor would every member want to participate- a huge percentage seem to just want to access the Media aspect of the forum.

I regret that you find the room in a phase that you don't enjoy. It happens. There are some other tickle chats out there, perhaps they are in a better place currently.

Very subtle, but I'd prefer to improve things for everybody instead of simply deserting.

As I've always said if the TMF room stops being used and enjoyed it's easy to shut down and save us a serious amount of yearly fees.

Myriads

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water- I'm sure with a bit of effort the chatroom could be a far more enjoyable place for a lot more people.

i am willing to facilitate the TMF population slice that consists of cute, moderately to extremely sexy female rocket scientists, in their chatting endeavors. i will fearlessly police their chat conversations in order to help the mods make TMF a better place!

"A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position." Wiki.

 

[Comfort Eagle]

Basically the place seems to have become a haven for underage members who enjoy holding their own members while spouting rubbish, though I certainly commend their ability to type one-handed.

I'd argue the people doing that are much, much older than you'd think.

 

[chicago]

How about we at least have a chat mod in there once in a while, when it's NOT trivia?

 

[Mitchell]

Libertine, I like you, but.. I disagree with your suggestion, and I should also say that I have no doubt that Myriads means what he says about shutting the chatroom down.

I'm an "old member". While maybe not chroniclogically old, I've been here for almost ten years. To be fair, I havent visited the chatroom in a few months because my new computer doesnt like it. That having been said.. nine plus years of chatroom experience gives me enough latitude to make an informed judgement.

If I may, Myriads, and not to "quote you" from something you said in an earlier discussion, but, I believe that you and I talked about what Libertine is saying, a few years back, in regard to the chatroom/forum being more.. harsh than in the old days. Myriads explanation to me was that in the case where a forum grows as much as we have.. rudeness will logically increase.

Libertine.. might I suggest something if I may.. It's a rule I';ve followed in my ten years here. If you are inclined to visit the chatroom, try to focus on people you enjoy chatting with/listening to.. And/Or.. if you generally find a group of people to be rude, annoying, etc, the ignore button is a great tool., I've used it for years.

I hope my post is helpful.

Mitch

 

[alchemy]

I'm behind this %100.

I still visit the chatroom from time to time, but not nearly to the extent that I used to. I hope a solution can be found for this issue.

 

[Jericho716]

There are hundreds upon hundreds of other chat forums, chat programs, and the like.

Perhaps you can open a new one and invite all of these "special" members there and keep out the ones you don't like?

Verify everybody's identity, count their verified posts, take a blood and urine sample, and ask for their SS# to make sure they're real. Seems that you might have the time to do some of these things? Or have some others assist? You could be "BEST COOL LEAD MOD #1 OMGLOLZ!"

Start an AIM chat, an EZBoard chat, or whatever type of chats people start who take chatrooms too seriously.

Or just stop taking it so seriously.

 

[camble.com]

I am kind 50/50 here, on one hand I am in agreement with Libertine that something needs to be done with the "ms lil hotfeet" who has no profile or post history but pm's you to say that "she" happens to live down the road from you and has very ticklish feet! or certain other male users who pm you uninvititedly and constantly to talk about hot ticklish female celebreties!!.

On the otherhand Myriads raises some good points, to police every user is near on impossible and that is not an issue here but with the world wide web in general and is something that should of been thought of before Bill Gates and Co. switch on the information superhighway, it ain't ssomething that is going to be corrected overnight and probably never will.

 

[-Hari-]

I think its important to remember that this community isn't and shouldn't be limited to people being as socially dynamic as is being suggested, some people just don't possess those skills and that doesn't necessarily mean they will break our rules but they may very well be harder for some people to get along with.

Whilst we clearly have to have rules it can be over done, A user shouldn't have to take part in the forum in a specific way to gain access to a chatroom, people should be able to use the forum however they want within the rules, some love to post, and some don't.

Whilst its easy to be annoyed by the way some act, its also pretty easy to press the ignore button and to not talk to them.

Those users that go on about hot celebrities feet and such might annoy one person but they're a perfect match for another and eventually pair off and head into PM and probably discuss all manor of famous feets, I believe this is why the room is often filled with familiar faces saying next to nothing in public, remove those people by filtering them out and you have a dead room.

I feel that the solution you present might also over time cause the death of the room, as the beauty of it is how easy it is to access.

 

[camble.com]

I think its important to remember that this community isn't and shouldn't be limited to people being as socially dynamic as is being suggested, some people just don't possess those skills and that doesn't necessarily mean they will break our rules but they may very well be harder for some people to get along with.

Whilst we clearly have to have rules it can be over done, A user shouldn't have to take part in the forum in a specific way to gain access to a chatroom, people should be able to use the forum however they want within the rules, some love to post, and some don't.

Whilst its easy to be annoyed by the way some act, its also pretty easy to press the ignore button and to not talk to them.

Those users that go on about hot celebrities feet and such might annoy one person but they're a perfect match for another and eventually pair off and head into PM and probably discuss all manor of famous feets, I believe this is why the room is often filled with familiar faces saying next to nothing in public, remove those people by filtering them out and you have a dead room.

I feel that the solution you present might also over time cause the death of the room, as the beauty of it is how easy it is to access.

Haribish, yes you have a point but would you just walk up to a stranger in the street/bar or coffee shop and ask them if they want to talk about the weather?...of course not so why do it in a chat room.

As most parents teach us from an early age to learn manners and treat others with dignity and respect (which cost nothing) it doesn't matter how socially dynamic you are we can all learn to be like that.
Just pm-ing someone blatently without as much as introducing yourself is a bit rude and unfortunatley happens too often but as I said it isn't just confined to the TMF, this is a huge issue across the www and suppose the only answer right now is if you don't like it don't go in chat rooms or as you quite rightly point out, hit the ignore button.

 

[GQguy]

The chat room is a place I check out once or twice a quarter. Wish there were more people in there that posted...and I don't like the non verified non poster...but without them the room would surely die. Or it could revitalize it and bring people in. It's tough to say. I don't use the room much because I'm busy...and it's easier to just pop in and post on my cell than sit in front of a screen.

I guess before any changes are made we need to find out why people that post don't hangout in the chat room. Then we can tailor any restrictions or incentives to get them to hangout there.


GQ

 

[-Hari-]

Haribish, yes you have a point but would you just walk up to a stranger in the street/bar or coffee shop and ask them if they want to talk about the weather?...of course not so why do it in a chat room.

As most parents teach us from an early age to learn manners and treat others with dignity and respect (which cost nothing) it doesn't matter how socially dynamic you are we can all learn to be like that.
Just pm-ing someone blatently without as much as introducing yourself is a bit rude and unfortunatley happens too often but as I said it isn't just confined to the TMF, this is a huge issue across the www and suppose the only answer right now is if you don't like it don't go in chat rooms or as you quite rightly point out, hit the ignore button.

In the street/bar etc I dont have an ignore button which would effectively remove the person off the face of the planet, the two situations really aren't relatable to that degree. Its also worth noting that it is by description a chat room, technically anyone has the right to spark up a conversation with anyone, similarly everyone has the right to not talk back. As long as that works the way it should then there isnt a problem, its when people pester and harass that we get issues, and thats the majority of moderating that I tend to need to do... which is odd as really its easily fixed without mods, ignore button, job done. I think people just like the confrontation some times.

Your right about manners, they are free and im sure in real life situations most of the people that perhaps don't display as many of them online as they should, probably do a far better job without the internet to hide behind.

Being socially dynamic on the internet is a learned skill which some just dont care too much about, some prefer to jump right into a sexualized conversation and I imagine that it works enough to keep them going as like I said, they likely pair off with others looking for the same sort of conversation and lets face it, theres plenty of them.

I say let them enjoy the chatroom the way they wanna, and others can enjoy it the way they wanna, and anyone that dislikes the way someone is just ignores, its pretty much the only way that works that doesnt restrict access to people based on a difference of opinion as to how internet interaction should take place.

 

[ticklemepls]

uhm... just a thought...

have we forgotten what our community preaches?! last i checked we say EVERYONE is welcomed and encouraged to participate. yes, there's trolls and socially challenged people-what chatroom on the internet DOESN'T have that? secondly, to restrict access to people you seem to think have made at least 20 'intelligent' posts is absurd. there are plenty of people i've spoken to in chat and become good friends with who do not post at all, and yes- they have a brain and can function. controversial- yeah here in america theres another word for it- discrimination... just sayin'

 

[Wolf]

I go into the chatroom maybe twice a year or so, and have seen all the annoyances the OP has named. But as far as I can tell, the ignore button still works. I can take or leave the chatroom, so I guess I don't see the need for such draconian measures, and frankly, I think you run the risk of scaring off people who are cautiously dipping a toe in the pond.

It's a slippery slope...next, will we start purging people from the chatroom who don't "participate to an acceptable degree", or whose persona is a little more, let's say...fictional... than others?

Let the Mods do their job with the people who break the rules. If you want take part in a large community, and enjoy the benefits of same, you have to deal with the fact that it's a large community, and not everyone will think/feel/act as you think they should.

It's tickling, for heaven's sake. Seems silly (and contrary to the spirit) to be taking it so damn seriously.

 

[leafstk]

I love the idea, but I just don't think it's realistic as Myriads said. That would be far too taxing on the Mods we already have. It's easier just to ignore the crap and chat with those you do enjoy chatting with.

 

[Big_Dogg85]

While I agree with Libertine and the desire to "clean up" the chat room, and perhaps more with the need for increased moderation, but I do understand the reality and difficulty of trying to implement such changes. I'm sure it would require a lot of time, money and man-power altogether to effectively make the chat room a utopia of sorts and even then there would be no guarantee it would stay that way. There are alternatives to be pursued however I believe. It might be worthwhile to research into other chat sites, like Tinychat for instance, where you can set who can have access to a room and moderate it yourself or with others. (YOU HAVE THE POWER, ALL-MIGHTY BAN-HAMMER) It may provide the alternative for people seeking a more civilized and restrained chat then having to ignore the masses.

The need for more moderation may become necessary over the entirety of TMF IMO. A lot of the moderators, as should be expected, have their own life responsibilities and may not currently or any longer have the time or inclination to visit TMF and that presents two problems - increases the potential of thread, chat, and forum rampancy and increases the stress on one Myriads who, despite his stubborn and determined workhorse qualities, is human and can't do it all himself. (He shouldn't) Would it be difficult then to send out a message to the TMF populace to seek volunteers for moderation of the forums and chat? The TMF is doing well in moderating itself lately, (granted I don't visit as much as I used to) but this is certainly not an absolute and the additional moderation may come in handy should less then pleasant discussions begin to dominate once again.

The TMF chat room IMO was never any different than any other chat room on the Internet save for the group of people using it. If you feel it isn't working out for you then there are plenty of alternatives to be researched and taken to realize the qualities of what made any chat room great.

 

[-Hari-]

This talk of needing more mods in the room... we so rarely need to action anything, staff levels are great, handling issues tends to run very smoothly and coverage is alot better than people might think, we log invisible quite often, nearly every time I log in there's another mod in there silently.

The issues detailed in the op are issues that in most cases don't require mods to action, perhaps maybe its wise to notify mods of the issues in case its an ongoing thing but other than that any communication issues people have can be solved with the ignore button, as I keep saying, have always said and will say in the future many more times. People usually seem to prefer having an argument with the issue and usually end up making things worse.

When faced with problems in the chatroom, ignorance really is bliss, one click and the problem is gone.

 

[SapphireRose]

Seeing as I really am not even ON this forum all that often (I don't get much time after work to do much more than workout, along with other "bits" of life that exist OUTSIDE of work...) I'm not entirely sure I feel entitled to much of an opinion.

BUT, that being said, and seeing as why I myself tend to not visit the chatroom much, I can understand both points of view. I understand how aggravating it is to muck through slop when trying to make a valid point here and there. Having to slosh through the various forms of "short speech" let alone understanding half of them, is irritating at best, on a good day. But, modding it any further would take a lot of time, and (if someone may) depending on HOW many people are already on the site; vs how many join the site per day; vs the number of posts needed; vs where they were made, etc...There are too many variables to try to validate doing that.

I think, maybe a different room, would be best in order. Whether it be here, or someone else started one elsewhere, with pre-qualifications in plain view and kept up with, that would be plausible. Especially considering that you'd be starting from scratch and can keep a closer eye on it from the start instead of starting in the middle of a forum with THOUSANDS of people.

Those are my thoughts anyway.

 

[Kittycupcake]

It's an open forum and an open chatroom. You have several options. Deal with it and continue to chat and make friends. Keep coming but bitch about it, be devisive and push away a lot of people (especially newer/shy/less socially gifted or articulate people). Stop going to the chatroom. Or make your own club with your own rules where you decide who can and can't chat.
I think this is a marvellous place with a free exchange of opinions, experience and ideas, and the people who run and moderate it do a splendid job. Don't let people who annoy you ruin such a good thing.
*Sings* why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends!

 

[socktickler86]

I wholeheartedly agree with the issues Libertine has brought up, even though I disagree with the methodology suggested to fix the issues.

I see a number of issues with what people have said in this thread. First off, people who are against any sort of real moderation have a common theme of not wanting to make it an unwelcoming place for people that may not be socially skilled. This is not the issue with chat. There is no stream of rude people coming into chat making trouble for people day after day. There are a few, constantly annoying people. It is the same people over and over who are causing the problems. For example, people who have barely started using chat to those who have been there for almost a decade probably immediately know who Libertine (I believe it was him) was talking about when he mentioned the one obsessed with celebrity feet. It's the same people who cause the problems. There is the occasional rude newbie that comes in and immediately asks about everyone shoe size, but they all eventually leave on their own very quickly. These people are not a problem. It's the constantly rude ones and those who are just around to make trouble.

In that same vein, people are concerned about driving people off with new rules or real moderation, but that's exactly what happens anyways! Except it's good people that leave! I can't even count how many people I've met on the chat room who quickly stopped going because of the way the same people treated them and creeped them out. I've even talked to a mod about the 'celebrity feet' guy mentioned above and the claim was that he's been told repeatedly to stop breaking the rules and he never does and they simply do not ban him. One person stays while who knows how many dozens of people have left because of him (not necessarily him alone, but a combination of guys like him).

And to everyone who says use the ignore button, yes, the ignore button works well! Except every time you log off, it resets. So every time you come back on, you need to re-ignore people and if they aren't on when you log on, you gotta wait until they send their next uninvited message before you know they're around to ignore. Then, of course, there's the people with multiple accounts.

Why do the mods and the forum bend over backwards for a handful of people that drive out probably hundreds or thousands of people in exchange? People forget that the very notion of having laws and rules are to make for a group of happy people. That's the only purpose of rules and laws. When they no longer serve that purpose, or are not enforced, something needs to be changed.

I don't get it. Most of the mods/admins of this board are great as I've personally talked to a lot of them, but this one aspect confuses the hell out of me. This and the politics forum. I don't get it. The masses are driven away to make a select few feel comfortable.

 

[Leo tickles]

If the mods banned every single person who fits your description about that one chat individual, we wouldn't have half of the people we do now.

Increased moderation would probably help in one way, hurt in another. But this is the Internet. People go to Yahoo Questions to perv about the fetishes they have. Google's auto fill is usually filled with perverted searches for totally unrelated subjects and words that I try to type in.

Sure, somebody new to the net would be freaked out. But if they take a moment to think about how anonymous they are online, and the "offenders", too, they will quickly realize that whoever is bothering them is just a lonely, anti social person looking for a quick wank. At that point, they can choose to freak and quit everything they like about the net, or laugh it off, and go on with their lives.

 

[Myriads]

Why people are not banned:

I give you the example of a member who first caused an issue in 2003. He was banned.

As of today they have created 117 accounts. Each of which has been banned as discovered. They operate on a high volume ISP. If I ban it, I'll take out about 6K other members.

So anyone up for explaining to 6K people that they are going to be sacrificed so I can halt one person who is rude in the room once every two to three weeks? Someone tell me how to sell that one.

The web is designed to be very open. It's impossible to close people off without choking the hell out of your site.

Go visit Tickling City. The tickling forum that required person by person verification before they could post. It failed to maintain critical posting levels, stalled, and while still up, has become a ghost ship. That is what happens when you build hurdles to member participation.

Does it annoy that there are a handful of trolls, inept people and such that make our room less fun and welcoming? Of course. But it's not a problem we've just blissfully ignored over the past 12 years. We've handled it as best we could with the tools we have.

I had a period where I accepted peoples offers to mod and be helpful in the room. The result? Abuse of power, 'help mods' booting everyone they took a dislike to. I ended that test phase pretty fast. And the people we empowered were all 'sane and reasonable long term members' also. They just decided that things should be a certain way once they could.

My answer has been the same for years. The TMF Chat not to your taste? Use one of the other tickle chats on the web. Perhaps they will provide the experience you seek.

I'm not going to make the forum any more closed then is needful for it to survive. I don't add rules that I don't have staff available to enforce.

I have limited resources. I spend them on the things the forum needs most.

Myriads