Mel Gibson's Passion

[gibby59]

gibby59 or Jim have any of you ever read the book The Case for Christ by:Lee Strobel? im just wondering if you have or not. i haven't really read it much. But my dad Randy has he says its a very Good book. my dad has been a Christian now for over 25+ years. We go to a baptist Church

Thank you everybody for listening

I have read that book, and also another one of his books - The Case for Faith. You should read The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren. it's a very good book also. There's a book That's Just Your Interpretation by Paul Copan that's also very good. Josh McDowell has a great one called Beyond Belief to Convictions. Take care.

 

[BigJim1]

and also Jim in one of your posts eariler back i read that you left being a Chrisian ingeneral i think you said. and Why is that may i add? Because if your a true Christian and a follower and beliver in Jesus Christ. then you'd belive in and follow Gods plans and his teachings. Because there is no half Christian or Half beliver in God is doesn't really work that way. sorry if you taken offence to this :sad: . i was Just wondering thats all Jim 🙂

The problem I have with a lot of conditioned people (whether they be conditioned in religion, a political ideology or watever) is that there are never any shades of grey with them, only stark black and stark white. I have my own conception of the "Supreme Being" which I've heard similar people describe as Infinite Oneness or the Oversoul. The total collection of all awareness and creation perhaps? That is my conception of "God".

Why did I leave christianity? Well it might be a good idea to ask why I became a Christian in the first place. There was always a part of me that wanted to explore spirituality and the culmination came when I was about 14. There was a young girl called Laura Davies who needed an organ transplant and the whole country was captivated by the story. Eventually an Arabian sheik weighed in with the bulk of the money needed to send her to America for treatment. Sadly she died, but during her campaign I started praying for her. This lead to praying as a matter of course at night, in the morning, before meals, etc. The only reason I prayed as a Christian was because I'm English and the West's dominant religion is Christianity of one denomination or another. I wanted to reach out into Infinite Love and pray, and I didn't know any better at the time, than to go for Christianity.

As I got older I was finding that Christianity was far too limiting and seemed inherantly designed as a psychologically fascist mind-prison. (Not just Christianity, but ALL religions, which are ultimately invented and controlled by the same people anyway. (Did you know that a guy called Bhudda is supposed to have been born on December 25th to a virgin mother and a carpenter father, preached, healed, raised the dead to life and then was crucified and came back to life after 3 days?) I found that calling yourself anything limited the bounds by which your spirituality could grow. If you give something a definition, then you give it walls and fences that pen it in. So I just became part of "Oneness" that encompasses everything and defines anything. The beauty of it is that there is no dogma to defend, so there is always room for growth and expansion. I don't have fixed beliefs in my "faith", and am always ready to re-evaluate something and change how I think about it. That is one thing that NO religion affords a person. You have rules that have been unquestioningly accepted for centuries and if you break tem, you're fucked. Very weak in my opinion.

There was also the development that as I researched history and religion even more (even though I don't believe in religion I still find it a fascinating subject) it seemed obvious that religions were nothing but political and economic entities, designed to imprison people whilst making them think they'd been set free. So here I am now, closer to "God" than I've ever been and more empowered and free than any religious person.

And that's my story, in a very abridged version. Anyone feel free to ask me anything else about it that they like.

 

[CrypticSlayer]

What's up, Jim? This is macphisto here... decided to diversify my forum activity... Thought I'd mention something you may or may not have missed in one of gibby's first responses here...

1. I can't find anything in the Bible that says Ahmed is going to hell for eternity. Ahmed is a child and probably has never even heard the message of Jesus Christ, let alone understood it and had a chance to accept it. The Bible does say that God will condemn all those who hear, understand and reject the message, not children who do not have the capacity to make a choice.

Gibby, I gotta say... this aspect of Christianity bothers me... Wanna know why? Think about this... If it's true that only those that have heard the gospel and then reject it go to hell, why tell anyone about it? Simply mentioning the gospel to someone already puts them in danger of damnation, because he/she can always choose to disbelieve you. So, if you wanna keep people from going to hell, why not keep Christianity secret from everyone? They might be ignorant as a result, but they won't have to risk going to hell....

 

[tummynavelboy]

What's up, Jim? This is macphisto here... decided to diversify my forum activity... Thought I'd mention something you may or may not have missed in one of gibby's first responses here...



Gibby, I gotta say... this aspect of Christianity bothers me... Wanna know why? Think about this... If it's true that only those that have heard the gospel and then reject it go to hell, why tell anyone about it? Simply mentioning the gospel to someone already puts them in danger of damnation, because he/she can always choose to disbelieve you. So, if you wanna keep people from going to hell, why not keep Christianity secret from everyone? They might be ignorant as a result, but they won't have to risk going to hell....

That makes no sense at all Slayer they'd still go to hell either way. Actually its not we as Christians that lead people to christ anywho we might sorta lead them that way with love and Compassion towards them and where he/she has been in thier lives and as friends. But who gets the glory in leading anybody to belive is God himself and him alone. The holy spirit inter seeds them and at thier heart so its God first and for most that gets the glory and the honor not Man himself we just kinda leave hints here and thier i guess if you will.

 

[BigJim1]

What's up, Jim? This is macphisto here... decided to diversify my forum activity... Thought I'd mention something you may or may not have missed in one of gibby's first responses here...

Hey Mac, how's tricks? 🙂 Nice to see you here as well.
No I didn't miss it, just thought I'd explained why I thought it was wrong. The upshot of Gibby's response is, that Ahmed gets a second chance, his parents roast for eternity because they chose the wrong religion. Okaaaaaaay, let's put it bluntly.

If there is one true faith among all the ones on Earth, then I think it's fucking unfair of God to be judgemental against anyone who picks the wrong one, because it IS largely an accident of geography what your faith is. In a place like Syria or Iraq, the positions of christianity and Islam are reversed. Christians are the wacky minority and Islam is the state condoned "one true path". According to the fundemantalist Christian view of things in this thread, where you end up after death is some gigantic cosmic lottery that few people stand a chance of winning. If things were that way, I think it'd make God a complete fucking idiot. Happily for me, I neither believe that it is that way, or that "God" is so inclined to be a moron.

Neither do I subscribe to the ideal that it's easy to see that Islam is the way of evil because the Koran encourages muslims to kill Christians. It doesn't take more than about 10 minutes study and the firing up of more than half a dozen brain cells to realise that all holy books are judgemental about different religions to the one espoused inside. Take the Torah for instance; it's one of the most racist and disgusting pieces of trash imaginable in places! What the Torah says about gentiles (non-Jews) is enough to make someone with the strongest stomach blance. And the Bible? It's full of race-hate and anti-tolerism too. Some of the biggest mudering gits of all time were people like Moses and kings David and Solomon. (None of whom literally existed in my opinion, as like Jesus, there is no recorded evidence of their existence outside of the pages of the holy books.)

I'm sure the Koran does contain passages hostile to non-Muslims; in fact I know it does, because I have an English language copy which I read frequently. But that proves nothing, other than that Islam is the same as all other religions; judgemental, blind, hostile and a prison of the mind and emotions.

Gibby, I gotta say... this aspect of Christianity bothers me... Wanna know why? Think about this... If it's true that only those that have heard the gospel and then reject it go to hell, why tell anyone about it? Simply mentioning the gospel to someone already puts them in danger of damnation, because he/she can always choose to disbelieve you. So, if you wanna keep people from going to hell, why not keep Christianity secret from everyone? They might be ignorant as a result, but they won't have to risk going to hell....

Ah, well one must close one's eyes and trust to faith, mustn't one? 😀 I mean the gospel can't be wrong because it's God's word, isn't it? 😕 :speechles :umm: :dead:

 

[CrypticSlayer]

That makes no sense at all Slayer they'd still go to hell either way.

Ok... So.. BBR, it would seem that you and Gibby disagree on this matter. Gibby implied that the kid wouldn't go to hell if he didn't know about God and Christ. You're saying that if he died ignorant of God and Christ he'd go to hell anyway? Wow, your version of God is pretty fucked up. Maybe that's why you're a "goth" Christian. I'd be pretty depressed myself if I thought God worked that way....

 

[tummynavelboy]

First off Im NOT a Goth so don't assume i am just because i have that Goth smiley down below my signature. i find the Goth lifestlye intriging and interesting but im NO Goth. 2nd my thought is This i've always belived if a person Does Not accpet the messeage and belive in Christ and make him a true reason for living in his/her life and a true beliver before then i don't see them going to Heaven. since it comes down to Faith and beliving that Jesus Died and rose again

but i could be wrong... since i did not read gibbys thread on that with what your talking about i don't think? so gibby can tell me what he thinks.

 

[Kalamos]

I'll add a post here just for the sake of conversation.

I've only read the last few posts, so far, and I'll comment accordingly.

If I recall well, bible does NOT mention Limbo or Purgatory. Those are medieval notions.

So, strictly speaking, un-baptized ppl would NOT ascend to Heaven, upon their death - at least according to the old testament [that is, the jewish torah].

Later, theologists reasoned there was need for a place in-between Heaven and Hell. So Limbo and Purgatory were born.

I can't quote who or when exactly made up that notion, but - again - Dante [1304?] mentioned them both, so we might agree on that date for the sake of simplicity.

I'll just check a couple of sources, should need arise - I'm quoting by heart now. 🙂

To sum up: catholic church [and I think ortodox too] would reply that un-baptized ppl [their souls, actually] would join Limbo on death. This applies to ppl lived before Jesus's coming too.

I don't know about other christian confessions. Some of them believe in bible alone - and veterotestamentarians in old testament only, with some amendments.

I would suggest ppl to add their own confession, since rites and dogmas DO change. 🙂


Reg's.

 

[Kalamos]

So, I checked a couple of sources. 🙂

My memory was good: catholic church "invented" purgatory around 1274 [Council of Lion] and in 1300 [under Boniface VIII's Jubily] made the notion public.

Bible does NOT mention purgatory - and the parts that could imply it are considered apocryphal [questionable] by some theologists.

About Limbo: according to Jude 9:27 and Corinthians 5:10, life closes a time of opportunities before judgement. After death souls are judged by deed done "by the body".

This is quite interesting and echoes the neverending dispute between catholics and protestants - since catholics believe more in Grace and divine intervention, while protestants do more in deeds alone.

I'm no theologist, but scriptures might suggest that unbaptized honest folks COULD have a chance for christian salvation, while misguided baptized ppl would be judged harshly [since they knew of God's law and Christ's coming].

Just to quench the curiosity. 🙂


Reg's.

 

[Doctor Convulso]

Well I never. What a thread. Isn't it amazing how there's so many people in the world who need some sort of collective relief from death anxiety ? Religion is a wonderful form of Social Control and has been responsible for many fine atrocities. Indeed, many people are being repressed, tortured and killed for their religious beliefs while we sit and debate the morality of a system that has a lot to answer for.
What most basically decent people who have the temerity not to be sanctimonious and holier than thou, and who instead choose merely to generally apply Christian principles about their pefectly unharmful daily business would like is for all the organised child molesters, murderers and torturers who hide behind the banner of whatever religion is convenient to oppress someone else, to just stop and give us all a bloody chance.
For anyone wishing to research the troubled subject of religion and its intrinsically unhappy relationship with humans, you may find the Crusades a rather enlightening area of research. Oh and the Inquisition. Oh, and the British Colonial Wars. Oh, and a substantially massive fraction of human history.

But don't listen to me. I can't possibly know the difference between right and wrong because I don't quote the Bible at every opportunity. Yeah. That must be right. And only humans have souls. Right. No other organic life. And God created the Earth in seven days. Oh I see. And there was me thinking the eventual settling of the solar accretion disc was to blame. What a fool I am.

This planet is insignificantly small and we are a very destructive species with absolutely NO sense of perspective.

Enough said.

And Jimmy Swaggart and all of the other pigs on TV can fuck off too.

How's that for a first post ?

 

[nessonite1]

Works for me, Doc. Too bad the people who could benefit from your stunning first post the most won't bother really reading it.

 

[Kalamos]

Once I knew how to swim. 🙂

 

[Doctor Convulso]

Yes, but it's a shame about those carrots

 

[Kalamos]

Do carrots float?

 

[Doctor Convulso]

Only in gravy

 

[Kalamos]

Mmm... Gravy. 😛

 

[CrypticSlayer]

Doctor Convulso... awesome post and awesome signature... Tool rocks! Do you like A Perfect Circle? I think they're great...

 

[Doctor Convulso]

I like all sorts of things

 

[SexyGoddess]

I am curious to see who is going to go see Mel's new movie the Passion of Christ......

I can get passionate about anything Mel does. He plays a very large role in my fantasy head games and has for years. I'll be going in a few weeks when all the hype has died down.

 

[Ticklish Alex]

I saw it on opening night actually. Was a pretty good film, the entire dialogue in sub-titles actually added something to it. I wouldn't recommend it for anyone who is squeamish in the slightest though.