My Take on Spider-Man

[TicklingDuo]

Good movie, especially the Bruce Campbell cameo.....but where the heck are the pumpkins Green Goblin used to throw??


Drew

 

[Scooby112211]

where the heck are the pumpkins Green Goblin used to throw??

Heh, in Kirsten Dunst's shirt. No wait, those are her breasts, which happen to be erect in the rain. Heh.😀

 

[MadKalnod]

By the way, everyone, I didn't see Stan Lee in the movie, please don't hate me. I did spot the car though. Klatu, Barrada, Nik*cough* I always thought, but couldn't be sure that they were making a referrence to the Star Wars characters. Anyone?

"Klaatu barada nikto!" Both Evil Dead and the names of the thugs on Jabba's sail barge are references to the old B&W SF film, "The Day The Earth Stood Still." The alien emmissary Klaatu speaks the phrase to his robotic bodyguard Gort (whose seamless silver form doesn't seem nearly as dated now that we know about liquid metal, bioplastics, and nanotechnology...)

But meanwhile, I just saw the movie today, and I loved it. I was literally grinning like a fool with tears of joy welling up at the unshakeable rightness of the finished product. The scenes where Osborne is arguing with his own reflection and the empty mask perched on the chair (love the foreshadowing of having his home decorated with all the ghastly tribal masks, btw) are some mighty cool acting.

 

[SlaverTickler]

Sorry Adam

I'm very sorry for my use of that term. I was simply reffering to what they had done to the charatore of Osborn/the Goblin. I wasn't trying to imply that other people with schizophrinia are snivaling, it was just that in the comic he thought he was some kined of god. By the end of the movie he was begging for his life like a winning baby. It took the dignaty right out of the charactore. Again Adam I ment no direspect, and I am sorry.

 

[Adam]

Eh, no apology necessary. I suppose I was a bit testy that night, and took your post out of context. So really, I apologize. However, one thing you should know is that people with schizophrenia actually find the term "schizo" to be offensive, from what I've read. I suppose it depends on the person, though. Again, no disrespect meant. 🙂

 

[SlaverTickler]

Good to know.

I'm glad that's cleared. Anyway I just couldn't get into the movie. It seemed to start out ok, but it lost me. I read the novel and know alot of the stuff that wasn't in the film. I also am a die hard Spider_man reader of the past and didn't feel the charactores (mainly the Goblin) kept with the book. I got int oan argument in the Chat Room and then learned that the person I was blah blah blahing with didn't even read the comic. I guess if you've read the comic you shouldn't go see the movie.

 

[dvnc]

Ain't that true of most all the movies based on a comic. They didn't *savage* the DC comics, but Superman II and III? Any Batman attempt? Blade? X-Men? Hulk (and they're doin' ANOTHER one)?

Ain't been many good adaptations of written material that stay true to the book. Don't get Dave2112 started on the Star Wars screw-ups. 😉 Seriously, there's a lot that gets whacked to make anything interesting in only 2 hours, and some monkey of a director ALWAYS thinks their idea to change things are the bomb. Instead, they just blow.

I dug the movie for what it was - an amusing delta from the original plot. Was wrong not to have webshooters (where the f*** was that webbin' from? How'd he mutate to MAKE it?). Was wrong not to have Gwen. Hell, why'd he HAVE to have a major super villian? The kid could barely control his new-found ability (anyone remember puberty, and tryin' to excel in sports?).

The director went wide. The movie was still entertainin', but it ain't for purists. Fortunately, it was an entertainin' movie.

Oh, and accordin' t'the folks doin' effects, Mary Jane's sudden examples of temperature were actually added effects. 😉

 

[jason19tk]

Re: Spider-man

FYI - Toby signed a three film deal for $26 million. So there will be sequels. The studio made the smart move and set a dollar amount for all three movies. Unlike the studio that did Charlie's Angels which did NOT include a sequel clause and so the actresses can ask for whatever they can get away with.

In the movie they elude to one major spidey villain in the film. There was a mention of Peter Parker working for Dr. Connor. As you may know Dr. Connor eventually becomes Lizardman.

The original plan was to have Spider-man fight both Dr. Octopus and The Green Goblin, but thankfully Sam the man ultimately decided ONE villain was enough!

Well, I've read on other forums that-- guess who's now being considered as the main villan in the next Spidey movie....VENOM!! YAAAAAAYYYYY!! 😀

And he won't be like the Venom we see nowadays..you know, kind of a bad good guy, or anti-hero. He's gonna be more like the combo of Carnage and Venom...Venom will be able to make weapons with his symbiote costume and he'll be about as ruthless as Carnage...but then again, in his early years, Venom pretty much WAS a bad guy anyway.

Also, the symbiote will kinda have a "flowing" motion when Eddie Brock is Venom. I hope all this is true, because Venom would make a great villan for the sequal.

But then again, it still might be a little too early in Spidey's hero career to be taking on someone like Venom.

Oh, and the guy Curt Connors turns into isn't Lizardman...he's just called The Lizard. 😉

 

[Dave2112]

Oh, and accordin' t'the folks doin' effects, Mary Jane's sudden examples of temperature were actually added effects. 😉

...back in Harryhausen's day they would have used ice cubes. Cheaper.🙄 😀

 

[Cyrano]

I'd hate to burst anyone's bubble but a guy I know, and he's usually right when it comes to movies, said Spidey would be up against the Lizard and Doc Oc. in the next film. Anyway, I kind of hope they don't mix Venom and Carnage, I liked the dialogue between those two, not to mention Venom's symbiote was perfect the way it was. I also heard that Gwen will be in the next flick. I suppose I'm happy they put Mary Jane in Liz Allen's place, but it would have been pretty cool if they stayed the course of the original plot. I could argue with myself on this subject all day.

 

[MadKalnod]

By the end of the movie he was begging for his life like a winning baby. It took the dignaty right out of the charactore.

Actually, it was perfectly in character. You'll notice that the whole time he's begging to Spidey, he's also slowly reaching for the wrist control that summons his glider and extends its ramming blades. Thus, it's all a trick to get Spidey to stand still long enough to get skewered by appealling to his compassion and pity. Osborne's big on masks, you'll remember, and the teary-eyed innocent is just another one in his collection.

Also, as a Batman fan as well, I'm a sucker for villains whose Light and Dark sides are visibly at war with themselves, like Two-Face and the Ventriloquist/Scarface. Maybe it was a characteristic of Harry Osborne more than his father in the original comics, since both men wore the Green Goblin costume at various times, but I recall reading scenes where Osborne is desperately trying to stay a good man, yet the Goblin personality still keeps coming back. As such, I don't object to seeing it in the film, especially if done well.

While change for the Hell of it to satisfy focus-groups who never read the original stories is unacceptable (like that awful Captain America movie where they made the Red Skull Italian instead of German for no apparent reason), I can live with changes if they're done in the name of streamlining it into a 2-hour format. Remember, there's over 40 years of Spider-Man comics out there, and you can't begin to fit it all into the movies, let alone just one movie. I won't complain that the web-shooters were biological because there simply wasn't time to show Peter Parker developing them as gadgets. If you wanted a montage of designing and testing the equipment, then name the scenes that you would be willing to cut to make room for it. (Not a serious inquiry, just a rhetorical question)

As for the sequels, I have some thoughts:
I like the fact that they didn't end this one with Peter and Mary Jane a happy couple with her fully aware of his secret identity. For years (decades, even) the comics depended on the theme that no matter how great Spider-Man's accomplishments, Peter Parker can't catch a break. Just as the comics didn't let Pete marry M.J. and reveal his secret until the 80s, so should the films wait until at least the third installment. (M.J. knows all along, of course, but understands what a sacrifice he's been making to protect her.)

I think Venom is just an appalling choice as the next villain. Aside from the fact that there are so many other better villains throughout Spidey's career, Venom has simply too much backstory to explain as Spidey's black costume, let alone as Venom. I don't believe you can fit it into a 2-hour movie without being almost incomprehensible, cutting out the Secret Wars references and angering the purists, or being "The Venom Movie" with brief cameos by Spider-Man. That's what screwed up every Batman film after the original. We aren't even going to discuss Carnage. I think The Joker said it best in the Batman/Spider-Man Team-Up: Disordered Minds, that if murder is an art and Mister J. aspires to be its Laurence Olivier, then Carnage will never be more than its David Hasslehoff!

There should be only one villain. Again, it's Spidey's movie, not the Sinister Syndicate's coming-out party. Joel Schumacher (forever cursed be his name) never figured that out, and it made his two Bat-films not just the worst films ever, but possibly the worst things Humanity has created as a species (barring the discovery of some Phoenician clay tablets that may be more vile).

As for that villain's identity and casting, just four words:
Doctor Octopus. Larry Drake.
Think about it, won't you?

 

[Cyrano]

I seriously doubt they'll introduce Venom in the next movie, that said, I think they will introduce Eddie Brock. As far as Venom being a second place villain? Are you serious? He had to be one of Spidey's greatest foes, not just because his powers were superior to that of Parker's, but because he was rather noble, intelligent, calculating but blinded by revenge. He was so engulfed by revenge that he kept Parker's identity to himself so that he alone would take him down. Venom put his life on the line several times for the sake of innocents he didn't know, he just couldn't forgive Spidey. Likewise, after they formed a truce, Spidey couldn't admit that Venom wasn't a blood thirsty madman. Though I would have to say, if someone dedicated their life to killing me but went back on it one day, it would take a lot to gain my trust. Carnage was just a killer, who I think was introduced to team up Venom and Spidey.

I think Lizard is more than enough a challenge to Spiderman, but I think they're throwing in Doc Oc as well. Granted, he was a big part of Spidey's saga, but he was also one of the goofiest looking villains of all time. If they're going to do the whole two villains thing, they should go for the Beatle and the Rhino. But speaking of goofy, those two are. It's going to be rough in throwing in both Doc Oc and the Lizard while staying true to the story since they were both mentors to Peter. Is he going to fight the Lizard and then go to third period to fight against Octopus? I guess we'll have to wait for the next movie, I hate doing that. It seems like forever since Episode I came out, and we're just now getting Episode II. Oh well.

Off the subject, if aliens ever met Martha Stewart, they'd wage war against us.

 

[Adam]

Well, in the hands of a subpar artist, Green Goblin could look pretty goofy, himself. Doc Ock is a classic, so he just has to be included in the sequel, IMO. You know they'll alter his look anyway, to make him look more legit.

 

[Cyrano]

Yeah, you're right. I didn't mean to imply that Doc Oc was too goofy, but I didn't clarify my reason for not wanting him in the next film at all, just kind of went on a rage about goofy looking villians. Anywho, I always thought that Doc Oc was a very big challenge for Spidey, I thought the same about the Lizard, they were no Venom, but they were tough. So, I'm not sure I'd want people to think Spidey could take them both at the same time. That said, I don't think they'll have enough time to have Spidey fight them at seperate times. I don't know about anyone else, but the more MJ they put in these movies, the better I say. I like the scenes about Peter's life. Aunt May did a good job, I know that's not her actual name, but that's who she is to me now. I didn't like Flash Thompson, he seemed more realistic than the comic character, not much like Flash to me. He was a jerk you'd find in school, not a jerk you'd find in Revenge of the Nerds.

 

[Oddjob0226]

Ok. - I liked the movie, I really did...but where did he get that cool costume?

Maybe, just maybe, in this universe the Fantastic 4 exsist, and he got Reed Richards to create it using unstable molecules.... hmmmm....

And hey - since a spider spins it's web from it's rear portal, why didn't Spider Man's web come from his butt?

And, hey - A wanna see the Gibbon as then next villan! no, The Prowler. No, wait, the Gibbon teams up with The Mandrill! Or The Prowler teams up with Hammerhead! Yeah!

 

[jason19tk]

I'd hate to burst anyone's bubble but a guy I know, and he's usually right when it comes to movies, said Spidey would be up against the Lizard and Doc Oc. in the next film. Anyway, I kind of hope they don't mix Venom and Carnage, I liked the dialogue between those two, not to mention Venom's symbiote was perfect the way it was.

Okay, I re-read the post which I THOUGHT said that Venom would be the next villan, but turns out he'll probably be in the third movie...and Harry Osborne won't become the new Green Goblin till after that, I think.

I hope they do enough Spider-Man movies to be able to eventually do a film with Spidey fighting the Sinister Six. The stories/cartoon episodes where he's fought them were great. Of course, they'd probably have to make that kind of a movie into a trilogy just so they have enough time for character development AND cool fight scenes.

Anyways...who else besides me thought the scene with Peter trying to fire his organic webbing was hilarious? 😀

 

[Cyrano]

I did enjoy that scene, as I also enjoyed the scene where he first discovers his webbing. I thought it was bloody hilarious how he just walked out of the cafeteria like nothing happened.

Who was in the Sinister Six? The Hobgoblin, Sandman, Electro, Mysterio, Doc Oc, and the Vulture right? Did Spidey take them on by himself? I don't recall witnessing that fight, but I have heard about it. Sounds like quite a task to fight those madmen by yourself.

 

[jason19tk]

I did enjoy that scene, as I also enjoyed the scene where he first discovers his webbing. I thought it was bloody hilarious how he just walked out of the cafeteria like nothing happened.

Who was in the Sinister Six? The Hobgoblin, Sandman, Electro, Mysterio, Doc Oc, and the Vulture right? Did Spidey take them on by himself? I don't recall witnessing that fight, but I have heard about it. Sounds like quite a task to fight those madmen by yourself.

Well, the Sinister Six you mentioned are probably the most familiar, but they've had different members sometimes..in the book " You are Spider-Man" ( it's one of those where after a short chapter, it says "if you______, turn to page__. if you______go to page__". basically, you sort of decide where the story goes) , the SS was : Doc Ock, Hobgoblin, Mysterio, Vulture, Chameleon, and Shocker.

In "Revenge of the Sinister Six", Sandman was turned to glass, and Ock had recruited a new member...a huge alien from another dimension.

Kraven the Hunter has been part of the SS once, I think.

In one of the newest storylines, Venom is the newest member...and I think even the LEADER of the Sinister Six. But this is after the original Doctor Octopus has been killed. ( fans don't seem to like the new, female Doc Ock. )

And yes, Spidey has taken on the SS by himself. In the first storyline, I think he managed to seperate the team members from each other and take them out one by one.

In "Revenge of the Sinister Six", he wasn't so lucky...he had to have help from Hulk, Ghost Rider, Nova , Deadlok ( some cyborg dude from the future, I think) , and the Fantastic Four.

The battles were much tougher due to Doc Ock's new adamantium tentacles ( don't know what the old ones were made of, though).

And you're right...it IS tough for Spidey to take on this supervillan team. As he told Nova : " Individually, they're some of the toughest foes I've ever fought. Together, they've kicked my butt all over the place. "

 

[Adam]

Sinister Six...

The original Sinister Six consisted of Ock, Electro, Vulture, Mysterio, Sandman, and the original Kraven the Hunter. There have been many incarnations over the years. Hobgoblin (Jason Macendale) joined the next incarnation, during the "Return of the Sinister Six" storyline that ran through Amazing Spider-Man #334-339. The most recent incarnation included most of the original members, minus Doc Ock, who the Six were taking revenge on. New members were Kraven the Hunter II (Alyosha Kravinoff) and Venom. Damn, I'm such a comic book geek. 😉

 

[jason19tk]

Re: Sinister Six...

The original Sinister Six consisted of Ock, Electro, Vulture, Mysterio, Sandman, and the original Kraven the Hunter. There have been many incarnations over the years. Hobgoblin (Jason Macendale) joined the next incarnation, during the "Return of the Sinister Six" storyline that ran through Amazing Spider-Man #334-339. The most recent incarnation included most of the original members, minus Doc Ock, who the Six were taking revenge on. New members were Kraven the Hunter II (Alyosha Kravinoff) and Venom. Damn, I'm such a comic book geek. 😉

Actually, I thought that Kraven 2 was named Viladmar..or something like that...it's been awhile since I saw that issue where the original Kraven's son takes the name of Kraven the Hunter. I'll dig the issue out tommarrow and find out for sure. Anyway, the Kraven you're thinkin of would be the third one, I think...the second one got killed in the saga about the Spider- clones. You know, when Ben Reily was the Scarlet Spider and MJ was pregnant. ( And yes, the baby...which is learned to have actually survived in the Marvel 2 universe...becomes Spider-Girl. The stories are ( if they're still being written) just as intertaining as her old man's adventures. 😀

 

[Adam]

Well, technically, calling Alyosha "Kraven II" is accurate, because Vladimir was called the Grim Hunter. Vlad was killed shortly after his debut by Kaine, the first, failed clone of Peter Parker. Guess they didn't think ahead with poor Grim.

 

[Dave2112]

I totally agree with MadKalnod that Larry Drake would be perfect as Doctor Octopus. Plus, he's worked with Raimi before, and Ol' Sam has a habit of throwing in things from his other films. Good call, Mad.😎

 

[Adam]

I agree that Drake would be a good physical fit, but for a big budget film, my guess is that they'll go with an actor who's more "known". My guess? Bob Hoskins. A lot of folks may know him as Super Mario, but he's done a lot of serious work as well. He'd be good in the role, I think, but you never know who they'll actually end up casting.

 

[Adam]

My God! I've finally made "TMF Novice", and it was on a Spider-Man post. Dang. 😉