Nature vs. Nurture - A False Dichotomy

[metalgod]

Here's a little something I had on my mind that I want to rant about.

I'm fed up with the 'nature-vs.-nurture' debate, particularly when it comes to people being ill. Why am I fed up? I'm fed up because I'm tired of hearing people complain about things they think they have no control over.

Psychologically, calling something a mental disorder is insufficient. Physically, calling something a genetic disorder or a physical disorder is also insufficient. Nothing can be explained and understood in isolation. Even the root word of rationale (i.e. "ratio") implies that knowledge is understood within the context of a relationship. You must know how the genes relate to the environment, and vice versa.

Have you ever heard someone say, "I'm depressed! I HAVE depression. I don't choose to be like this, I have a brain chemistry imbalance!" Well, where did that imbalance come from, you may ask? And they will tell you, "I have a genetic predisposition!" OK, but where did the predisposition come from?

From biology, we know that every cell dies and replicates, and there is a certain amount of time such that every cell will die and replicate giving us an entirely new cell body. The DNA that was in the old cells are replicated into the new cells. However, we also know that how we act in our environment has an impact on our cell DNA. Ever smoke? When you smoke, there is an increased potential for mutated cells (i.e. cancer) which requires changes to the cell DNA. Imagine the effects that this has over time if your cells continue to replicate over and over.

What does this mean? It means that the actions that your parents had in their environment had an impact on their DNA. When they gave birth to you, you got half of each parent's DNA. This means that any 'genetic predispositions' you may have were influenced by the conscious, mental choices of your parents, and your grandparents, and your great grandparents, etc. Why does alcoholism 'run' in families genetically? It's partly because of mental choices. The same thing applies to obesity and low metabolism, birth defects, etc.

It's very easy to demonstrate how mental reality affects physical reality all the time. Ever think, "I'm gonna move my arm," and then you do it? Well, that's one example. Your mental state is constantly affecting your physical state, and vice versa. It is impossible to separate the two and understand them in isolation.

What's my take-home point? Well, everybody already knows about medication. If you take medication, it will have effects on you physically/mentally. But, I think too often people neglect how their mental state can influence their physical state. Are you fat? Are you depressed? Do you have cancer? Are you an alcoholic? Look to your mind as a source of power - the mind contributed to your current state, so it has the potential to reverse it. All this means is that your mind is a very powerful thing and it likely can do things for you that you never imagined possible.

 

[Bothersome]

Thinking is a lot of work. (For some, anyways.)
Popping a pill is often far easier.

That's my take on it, anyways.

 

[metalgod]

Thanks for the contribution 🙂

 

[LeatherTrap]

It's very easy to demonstrate how mental reality affects physical reality all the time. Ever think, "I'm gonna move my arm," and then you do it? Well, that's one example. Your mental state is constantly affecting your physical state, and vice versa. It is impossible to separate the two and understand them in isolation.

Are you serious? You're mixing up two different thoughts here.

Psychosomatics is the effect of the mind on the body; the most literal interpretation of mind over matter. This is people becoming sick or disabled not through physical trauma, but through mental sickness. Whatever is happening to their body, it's happening because they truly, actually, 100% believe it.

Voluntary movement is a function of the somatic nervous system. This is a result of evolution; we are meant to do this. Without it, we'd be inert, unable to fend for ourselves, feed ourselves, anything. Anything not falling under voluntary control is a concern of the autonomic nervous system.

The difference here is significant. Your nervous system and muscles are meant to work together. You moving your arm is not going to win you a gold star. Call me when you can will your teeth to fall out.

Now, that's not to say I disagree with the basic underlining aspect of this whole... post. Our mental state can affect our physical state. Hell, you need not look any further than the placebo effect for proof of this.

But you cannot will genetic disorders into being, not can you banish them. If you are genetically predispositioned for something (and mind you, the increase or decrease offered by genetics is normally a very small number), it's only a statistical observation. You can control (to varying degrees) what you're exposed to and what you allow, but people are not omniscient, and the average person couldn't imagine the scale of the individual cell, let alone the DNA. Our cells go through mitosis at an unfathomable rate each day. Each division is a chance for error, specifically the polymerization, and although our bodies are amazingly efficient at keeping this from happening there's simply not a 100% guarantee. Nobody could keep track of all it.

Furthermore, unless you're messing with your gonads, you're not messing with the genes you're passing onto your offspring. Meiosis is just as subject to mutations as mitosis, and that's exactly how evolution even progresses.

I'm not discouraging having a positive mindset and taking control of your life. People who are optimistic generally do better against disease that pessimists. And what you allow in you life and your body has an impact on your life. But this talk about mutating your DNA and passing it on down the line is fallacious.

 

[Bothersome]

The brain is an amazing organ. I would very much be interested in discovering the full extent of it's capabilities.

It does numerous things subconsciously, like breathing and blinking of course, but also more subtle things. It controls our body temperature, our rate of growth, our rate of digestion, ALL without any effort on our part. Now, obviously I'm under the impression that most of the time, our brain knows exactly how much of what hormone to distribute throughout our bodies... but imagine if we could control that, consciously.

It would be an amazingly dangerous thing to try, but it would also have it's perks.

Although, I'm no brain surgeon here. I could be giving the brain too much credit, or possibly even exaggerating on some points.

 

[metalgod]

While I don't claim to know what can/cannot be altered through application of the mind, have you by any chance taken a look, for example, at brain imagery from individuals in a meditative state? They basically flooded their brain with dopamine. If you have a genetic predisposition for depression and you experience lower regular levels of dopamine than the average person, meditation is then a method by which there is scientific evidence for one's ability to produce dopamine. I would also bet money that if you had a genetic predisposition for depression, and you live your life in a way that prohibits the disposition from becoming a full-blown expression depression, you will reduce your offspring's genetic predisposition for depression comparatively (all other things being equal).

I'm not talking about "mutating DNA" before passing it along. I'm simply saying that how one acts in their environment naturally has effects on their DNA. I gave smoking as an example because it can cause mutations in the cells which then become cancerous cells and replicate into more cancerous cells.

On a side note, I read a story about a woman in a hospital who consistently and vividly imagined a shark eating all of her cancerous cells. Her cancer mysteriously disappeared.

Also consider that scientists are unaware of the function of so-called "junk DNA." I think that this "junk DNA" plays as much an active part of determining our biology as the "active DNA." Actually, my hypothesis is that this "junk DNA" is for inactive traits that have the potential for activation. In other words, I think that, for example, this "junk DNA" may allow the possibility for growing wings and flying, but they aren't currently being expressed So, I think this junk DNA plays into what is genetically predisposed (i.e. that which is present in the genome but is not currently being expressed). Given that the substance of DNA is configured differently but is structurally the same in all life, I think this is a good possibility. I also think it's a possibility because things are only identified in contrast to what they are not (e.g. I am a flying human, not a non-flying non-human, and my DNA is what makes this happen).

Also keep in mind it's fallacious to talk about evolution in the way you mentioned. Evolution as it stands implies that evolution in physical characteristics of a species leads to evolved conscious states (e.g. like the succession from earlier primates to humans). However, the exact same evidence could also result in the conclusion that evolved conscious/mental states produce evolved physical states.

 

[ticklebear2]

Explain to me how some one with Schizophrenia or Alzheimers can use this to overcome the disease Also it has been proven that our brains and body can over produce hormones controlling different aspects of our mind and body.



Okay, you say that the woman thought about a shark was eating her cancerous cells and her cancer was gone, but you failed to mention if she taking chemotherapy or radiation or some other treatment helped cure her cancer. Can't just go on half a scenario.

 

[Bothersome]

Explain to me how some one with Schizophrenia or Alzheimers can use this to overcome the disease Also it has been proven that our brains and body can over produce hormones controlling different aspects of our mind and body.



Okay, you say that the woman thought about a shark was eating her cancerous cells and her cancer was gone, but you failed to mention if she taking chemotherapy or radiation or some other treatment helped cure her cancer. Can't just go on half a scenario.

Well, I think the point he was trying to make was that the treatment (if any) was not working up until this point.

 

[metalgod]

Explain to me how some one with Schizophrenia or Alzheimers can use this to overcome the disease Also it has been proven that our brains and body can over produce hormones controlling different aspects of our mind and body.



Okay, you say that the woman thought about a shark was eating her cancerous cells and her cancer was gone, but you failed to mention if she taking chemotherapy or radiation or some other treatment helped cure her cancer. Can't just go on half a scenario.

To say "producing hormones controlling different aspects of our mind and body" is interesting. The question then is, is the mind or body also controlling these hormones that are being produced? The way you put it, it sounds like the hormones have a 'mind of their own' so to speak such that they, on a whim, can just produce themselves at will or randomly. If the mind/body is controlling the hormones which are controlling the mind/body...then they seem entwined, don'tcha think?

And no, no chemo, no radiation.

With reference to the schizophrenics and alzheimers, that is something I'm currently trying to understand. I'm working in an adult inpatient psychiatric unit in a hospital and this is the type of population I encounter regularly. Medication definitely seems to have its place. I believe the purpose of medication should be to temporarily re-balance an individual's brain chemistry to an individual 'average.' This will help a person to temporarily function, but then the person needs to apply their mind/body in ways that will maintain this balance naturally, without medication.

For some people, this may not be possible given whatever mental/physical/environmental circumstances may be going on. But, I believe that if this is the case, it is because they have reached a point of 'no return' so to speak. Let's say you have decades or even centuries of poor mental/physical health decisions implemented by yourself, your parents, your grandparents, etc. Then, all of a sudden, you find yourself with schizophrenia and you decide you want to change. IF it's true that the cumulative effects of acting-in-environments are passed on genetically, then you'll find yourself in a troubling situation essentially trying to overcome and reverse decades of 'sick' decisions (these 'sick' decisions culminated and the result is schizophrenia). I think of it as like building momentum. A smoker who has smoked for 2 days will find it much easier to quit than someone who has smoked for 2 years. Reversing any habit becomes harder with time, and it seems very plausible to me that this is a reason why some people apparently become so far gone that medication seems to be the only option.