Question For Video Fans Of The Male Gender:

[BellaRisa]

Halloo all,

This is kinda stemming from the M/M thread TIB has started, but not really-this has been on my mind for awhile.
I'm going to do my best to ask this without being combative, but I must admit the topic does grind my gears a bit, so no disrespect intended .

Um, why do so many male video fans seem to think that their preferences are the only ones that matter, and their dislikes deserve active scorn and shunning?

See, I've had my tiny vid company for years now, and while we aren't producing at the moment I still get tons of email on a weekly basis. I can't tell you how many letters I've received begging me to never ever EVER show a man. Not his hands, not his back, and OMG not his face. And when I politely and gently inform them that I fully intend to produce such, because lots of folks enjoy and are aroused by seeing a man tickling or being tickled, the response is nearly always utter shock and dismay. Clearly I must not know what I'm talking about, no one of sane mind would want to see such a thing. When I tell them that as a woman I *love* seeing a handsome man as the 'ler or 'lee as do many women, and for the exact same reasons that men love watching ladies, these guys are totally flabbergasted that women's opinions matter to me since men buy most of the vids and clips and tickling is primarily for men to enjoy (yes, some fool actually wrote this to me ).

Fellas, people who like genres that you find distasteful deserve to enjoy themselves as much as you do. And they deserve to enjoy their preferences *without ridicule or putdowns*. Because that's the real issue with me; you don't gotta like what I like, but you do need to allow me to like what I like in peace. When I open a thread to see a clip I like, I didn't open it to read your insults and disdain. You come off as awfully self-centered and boorish, with way too much time on your hands, if you open a thread or send an email just to be needlessly nasty. Don't you think? 😕

Bella

 

[isabeau]

i agree one hundred percent...i enjoy seeing a big brute of a man tickled out of his senses...bound of course and laughing like crazy..fighting hard against his restraints..and it doesn't necessarily have to be a big guy, i just used that as a reference of how intriguing it is to see a big man fall so to speak..and i hate that lovers of m/m clips are attacked and/or ridiculed because of that love...i enjoy watching f/f clips, and i post about that, but i don't get flamed for my love..

 

[BellaRisa]

For the record, I am *not* talking specifically about m/m bashers, though they're certainly a decent example. I also mean guys who have to moan about why the girl in the CLEARLY LABELED upper body clip didn't have her feet tickled (how can you type if you can't read? ) and the the ones who have to bitch if the 'lee looks remotely like she allowed her sandwich to digest instead of throwing it up right after lunch . You absolutely don't have to like everything, but for the luv of peace let it go, it's not always about you.

Bella

 

[Strider]

People who think the way you're describing are morons, pay them no heed.

 

[JPie1]

I love both f/m clips and m/f clips, m/m is not my 1st preference but that is my choice and no one elses, it does not bother me nor should it. I am with Bella in that everyone is entitled to their own taste and leave it at that. Just as religion or political beliefs should not be pushed on anyone neither should this. Why can't everyone learn tolerance and appreciation for the fact the different people make the world go round. I think if we all liked the same thing it would be a pretty boring place. I like varied music, varied movies as I like various combinations of tickling.

Be nice to each other folks, we are all of the same community!

 

[Capnmad]

Well said, Bella. Though I'm surprised that you'd get specific requests to never show a man in any capacity in a tickling vid (as 'ler, 'lee or whathaveyou). I don't know where these people get off (though apparently, they've made known when they can't).

Moreover, I wonder why these requests are so emphatic. I know any suggestion of latent homophobia (resulting in men bristling at any involvement of another man depicted in any act that may prove arousing) would be greeted with vehement denial. Perhaps it's merely evidence of a lack of imagination on the part of these men to see those depicted in videos as proxies for themselves.

Whatever the reason (perhaps it's simple "preference", like chocolate over vanilla, though I imagine most would be less emphatic than described here were it only that), it is their own tastes and preferences, and they are entitled and welcome to make such preferences known with their wallets. But guys, at least be more constructive in your requests. I'm not a video producer, but I imagine most would be less averse to hearing about what you want to see than what you don't want to see. And above all, be civil and sensible in your requests, and be respectful of the creators and the creative process. Producers are artists of a sort, and should be permitted to pursue their vision unimpeded. If you don't like it, buy what you do like from those creators you prefer.

Best to all.

 

[toneus79]

Okay I will throw my tuppennyhappenworth in here, as it seems the least hostile of the recent M/M threads.

1) Women and men do not think the same regarding matters of intimacy with members of the same sex. So for example woman will discuss all manner of intimate details of their sex lives with other woman, but (despite what all you women think) this is something men NEVER EVER DO. We will discuss football, or how many miles our cars get to the gallon etc., but never anything intimate. Maybe partly because if such a subject was to come up between men, one misinterpreted remark could easily cause offence and lead to violence.

Now the point of all that is no matter what you ladies might say/think, M/M Tickling always has homoerotic overtones to it for the participants, whereas F/F does not have to. Now the reason this seems to cause such a problem on this forum, is because all of you Americans come across as far more Homophobic than us Europeans. Or to put it another way, in America you probably think you are really enlightened to come up with the comedy WILL AND GRACE, whereas over here such a show would be more likely to be considered by the gay community as patronising stereotyping.

A few months ago I got involved in what I thought was a humourous flame war with a Producer, because I dared to suggest that his customers might not always want to see him and and his not inconsiderable presence in every clip. A certain person who is contributing to this overall debate (but not yet this thread) decided to weigh in on his side and therefore I decided it wasn't worth carrying on with on the forum. However it did carry on over several PM's during which said producer told me that I must be gay. At which point I told him that I indeed was gay, and spent all my time fantasising about being tickled by his chubby fingers, and thus when could we get together to arrange such a happening. Thus when that insult didn't work he had nowhere else to go. My point being if you can be insulted by being called gay, then no matter what you claim to the contrary, you are Homophobic.

Any of this making sense ? Okay I will move on.

2) I am primarily a male Lee, into F/M Tickling. Now in some peoples eyes that must mean I am gay, because any man who can be submissive to a woman must be duh (who cares I don't, I just know what I like)

Now I have a reasonable collection of F/M clips. What I like is seeing women Tickling men whether the men are naked or not. I don't like however hearing men laugh, maybe because hearing ladies laugh is such a turn on for me, men laughing doesn't sound right to me as a man. However thank god there are women who like hearing men laugh otherwise where would us male lees be.

3) I agree with what the moderator said in the vid clips version of this thread. But lets face it the hostiles who attack M/M are no worse than the rest of the bullshit that flies around this forum, most noticeably regarding non consensual tickling, which seems to be tolerated even though the concept is an evil lie. i.e speaking as a male Lee, if a woman I didn't like found a way to non consensually tickle me, I would spend the rest of my days waiting for an opportunity to hurt her using as much violence as possible. Does that shock you ? Well that would be as much a violation to me, then if some man forced you to have non consensual sex (rape is the word). Yet this non consensual lie/bullshit is considered the norm on the TMF and is allowed to go on unchecked.

My point being yes by all means attack the hostile homophobes, but go for the ones who are advocating indecent/sexual assault as well (passing it off as Tickling).

 

[BellaRisa]

The problem, from what I can tell, is that many folks can't understand the difference between disliking something and telling everyone over and over and over that they dislike something. As much as I enjoy a good debate, I will always say that people have a right to their opinions. I only get crabby when they have a burning need to give their negative opinion that no one asked for when debate is not the purpose of the thread. That's immature and annoying and I believe a need for attention, and takes away from the enjoyment of others for no reason.

I have a 5 yr old in my preschool that despises any kind of fruit. I don't force him to have any when we have meals, he honestly doesn't care for it. But I do *not* allow him to sit at the table with us and give a running commentary on how "yucky and uhscusting" fruit is, as he will every single day if I don't prevent it; he knows he can keep his opinions to himself or sit alone, I don't let him spoil the meal for the others. I don't allow grown people to behave that way around me either .

Bella

 

[Amnesiac]

Most guys have had this type of experience watching pornography:

The woman or women of particular ehtnicity and body type are in the middle of a very enthusiastic sexual escapade with the camera lovingly zooming and emphasizing every inch of their anatomy and flesh, and all is well and good and then...

the movie cuts to the guy's face and his reaction.

Typically, when this happens, the viewer (who is predominantly male) responds thusly:

"AUUUUUUUUUUUUGH! NO! NO! NO! Why do you DO THAT? Now I gotta start all over again!" I've been there meself.

The presence of an undesired or non-stimulating image, particularly in arousal state where men tend to feel the most vulnerable, somehow knocks them out of the state of mind they were in and breaks the mood. Typically, the reaction is one of immediate anger because they may have felt duped into considering the male participant in a sexual fashion. It's all bullshit, and has no effect on their sexual orientation, but with heavy visually oriented sexually-charged stuff, any distraction tends to produce strong negative reactions.

You might have noticed, but not all ticklephiles are...all together "there". So it's understandble that the reactions you're seeing are much more intense and vitriolic than what you'd find elsewhere. Maybe it's the history of the person or the likely pathology of the majority ticklephile, but whatever it is, most of the men get so into the scene and probably imagine themselves as the 'ler in the P.O.V. Bringing even the SLIGHTEST image of the guy breaks it, and thus, you get your response.

Added to which, tickling has a lot to do with scenario of control (not necessarily DOM/SUB) but basically who is doing and who is receiving. If the viewer is male and tends to pick scenes and clips for a particular scenario, they want it that way 100% and even accidentally stumbling upon anything INSINUATING the presence of a non-diembodied man disturbs them.

As for a resolution to this problem I have none. All I got is an explanation, which I've just given. Anything else is up to someone else to solve because right now I'm headed off to watch Jordan get tortured again.

C ya.

 

[PainTrain]

People who think the way you're describing are morons, pay them no heed.

Well said. I agree.


I know I overreacted in the m/m tickling thread... I just get so sick and tired of seeing the same people do the same thing over and over... We get it, you don't like m/m tickling... please, leave us in peace! We don't do that to your */f clip threads!!

 

[method11236]

bottom line

I thought this thread was a question for male vid consumers, not a criticism of them. I happen to watch f/f , f/m , m/m , m/donkey , midget/f, whatever. However, I completely understand why some people flip a shit when they see porn (and tickling videos are porn) that doesn't apply to them. Because they can. This is a market and when the market wastes resources producing something I'm not interest in, I protest.

I think the "question" you're asking is :why are some people mean about some things? Well, who the eff knows. I think the real jerks are NOT the m/m bashers but those who get offended by m/m bashers. Don't get offended. This is tickling. TICKLING! If you ever get offended on the TMF, just remember, that person is a freak with a tickling fetish. And so are you.


Meth

 

[kyle]

Some really great points made in this thread.

However, I think the underlying factor is that we're on the internet. These are not people but nicknames and text. If someone is pissed and wants to vent they do without real repercussion.

 

[BellaRisa]

I thought this thread was a question for male vid consumers, not a criticism of them. I happen to watch f/f , f/m , m/m , m/donkey , midget/f, whatever. However, I completely understand why some people flip a shit when they see porn (and tickling videos are porn) that doesn't apply to them. Because they can. This is a market and when the market wastes resources producing something I'm not interest in, I protest.

I think the "question" you're asking is :why are some people mean about some things? Well, who the eff knows. I think the real jerks are NOT the m/m bashers but those who get offended by m/m bashers. Don't get offended. This is tickling. TICKLING! If you ever get offended on the TMF, just remember, that person is a freak with a tickling fetish. And so are you.


Meth

This thread is both a criticism of a behavior and attitude that I freely admit I find offensive and curious, and an honest inquiry as to why that behavior and that attitude seem to be so very rampant among a specific group. I'm not asking why people are 'mean' 🙄 , I've been alive long enough to understand that. But thanks for your response.

Bella

 

[Tamia78]

A few months ago I got involved in what I thought was a humourous flame war with a Producer, because I dared to suggest that his customers might not always want to see him and and his not inconsiderable presence in every clip. A certain person who is contributing to this overall debate (but not yet this thread) decided to weigh in on his side and therefore I decided it wasn't worth carrying on with on the forum. However it did carry on over several PM's during which said producer told me that I must be gay. At which point I told him that I indeed was gay, and spent all my time fantasising about being tickled by his chubby fingers, and thus when could we get together to arrange such a happening. Thus when that insult didn't work he had nowhere else to go. My point being if you can be insulted by being called gay, then no matter what you claim to the contrary, you are Homophobic.

There are alot of good answers on this thread, but I think the above quote may be pretty much right on. I love M/M......I admit it. It's definitely a turnon for me. But I also like F/F, and M/F. I don't think it would make me gay to watch F/F, but if someone wants to label me, that their problem. I'm comfortable with my sexuality and have to prove it to no one. Perhaps these M/M bashers feel the need to constantly remind us that they are in no way, shape or form interested in M/M becuase they are homophobic and insecure about their sexuality. Seems like a lot of hetero guys feel the need to constantly prove their sexual orientation like that. However, I agree that it is not acceptable to continually post about the obvious fact that they dislike it in every thread. You're straight. We get it. Move on.

--T

 

[lk70]

There are alot of good answers on this thread, but I think the above quote may be pretty much right on. I love M/M......I admit it. It's definitely a turnon for me. But I also like F/F, and M/F. I don't think it would make me gay to watch F/F, but if someone wants to label me, that their problem. I'm comfortable with my sexuality and have to prove it to no one. Perhaps these M/M bashers feel the need to constantly remind us that they are in no way, shape or form interested in M/M becuase they are homophobic and insecure about their sexuality. Seems like a lot of hetero guys feel the need to constantly prove their sexual orientation like that. However, I agree that it is not acceptable to continually post about the obvious fact that they dislike it in every thread. You're straight. We get it. Move on.

--T

Yup, that's about right.

 

[AffectionateDan]

A few months ago I got involved in what I thought was a humourous flame war with a Producer, because I dared to suggest that his customers might not always want to see him and and his not inconsiderable presence in every clip. A certain person who is contributing to this overall debate (but not yet this thread) decided to weigh in on his side and therefore I decided it wasn't worth carrying on with on the forum. However it did carry on over several PM's during which said producer told me that I must be gay. At which point I told him that I indeed was gay, and spent all my time fantasising about being tickled by his chubby fingers, and thus when could we get together to arrange such a happening. Thus when that insult didn't work he had nowhere else to go. My point being if you can be insulted by being called gay, then no matter what you claim to the contrary, you are Homophobic.

Hee! That's hysterical! But wait... does that make *me* gay, too?

...and tickling is primarily for men to enjoy (yes, some fool actually wrote this to me ).

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! What an asshat!

and the the ones who have to bitch if the 'lee looks remotely like she allowed her sandwich to digest instead of throwing it up right after lunch

Eeewww... that's yucky and uhscusting.

You absolutely don't have to like everything, but for the luv of peace let it go, it's not always about you.

I *beg* your pardon! It most certainly IS all about me! Hmph! Who the hell have you been talking to? 🙄

The problem, from what I can tell, is that many folks can't understand the difference between disliking something and telling everyone over and over and over that they dislike something. As much as I enjoy a good debate, I will always say that people have a right to their opinions. I only get crabby when they have a burning need to give their negative opinion that no one asked for when debate is not the purpose of the thread. That's immature and annoying and I believe a need for attention, and takes away from the enjoyment of others for no reason.

Exactly. If you want to voice your childish negativity, go back and do it on AMT, don't pee in our pool. This is the "Flame Free Forum", remember? And these same people piss and moan if they're corrected, just like a spoiled child, too. You wouldn't believe some of the tantrums.

 

[Redmage]

Out of curiosity, Bella, do you have a feel for how many women send you email about your site, compared to the men? In other words, what are your market demographics, gender-wise?

I think that there are lots of people, of both genders, who feel very strongly about a particular preference, and who have a hard time imagining that anyone "normal" would not share their preference. Surely you've heard a woman say to someone, "I don't know how you can watch/eat/listen to that."

Look at it this way: Let's suppose that most "sexy" women's clothing (lingerie and sexy outerwear) is bought by women with the intention of appealing to men. Granting that lesbian and bisexual women wear sexy clothes too, I think that's still a safe assumption. Given that, we might expect that the people who design sexy clothing for women would test market their designs to men, since in theory it's men that they're supposed to appeal to. But they don't. They market their designs to women, essentially trying to make clothing that women believe will be attractive to men. They totally ignore the fact that some men do buy things for their ladies to wear.

But that makes sense, because most of the people who actually pay for women's fashions are women. I think women would be a little shocked to run across a fashion designer who didn't recognize this basic truth, and who was actually making clothing with men's preferences in mind - even though there is a certain logic to that approach when you think about it. Logical or not, it bucks the trend that the fashon market has always followed, so it would be unexpected.

I think that at least for the moment, most visual erotica really is made for and purchased by men. Women are catching up (especially in certain fetish markets), but that's a recent development; I think right now the porn market is still very strongly a male majority. Add in the fact that both men and women have been taught to believe that visual erotica isn't even supposed to turn women on.

Put all of these things together - a male-dominated market, a social expectation that that it's supposed to be made up mostly of men, and the natural human tendency to believe that "everyone thinks like I do," and it's not hard to see why some men who prefer not to think too deeply about their preferences and yours might come off the way they do.

 

[BellaRisa]

Out of curiosity, Bella, do you have a feel for how many women send you email about your site, compared to the men? In other words, what are your market demographics, gender-wise?

I'd say that about a quarter of the emails are from women (real women, that is 😛 ). About a third, maybe a bit less, of our sales are from women I believe, and they seem to like me in that leather straightjacket a LOT. So do most of our fans, nearly every email comments on it.... 😎

Bella

 

[Mimi]

they seem to like me in that leather straightjacket a LOT. So do most of our fans, nearly every email comments on it.... 😎

*obscene Homer gurgling noises*

So.....friggin.....HOT. GOD we need a drooling emoticon on this site!!

Scuse me. I seem to be in the need of a bib and a cold shower.

Mimi

P.S. And they say women aren't visual! I'll take a couple hours of that yummy sight any day!

 

[kenny]

why

ok first of all i can see why women arew more comfortable with m/m tickling then straight males women are way more comfortable around gay guys, i also would like to say i love f/m tickling but my problem with it is hardly any of the guys are ticklish accept of tickle torture fun, and taylor st claire site the rest are a joke none of those guys are ticklish they need to find some real ticklish guys like if i was being tickled like that i would laugh my head off, i also love f/f tickling

 

[Mephistopheles]

I am not into /M tickling, but flaming others who like it is just plainly disrespectful and those who engage in those actions should be ignored, for they are not worthy of your attention.

 

[kenny]

what

hey man its just my opinion if you dont like it dont read it and i belive from the other opinions ive read on hear about this subject alot of other guys agree with me, i am a person who stands by his priciples whether you think there wrong or not i dont care that is what is wrong with this world to many people are being swayed into this ultra liberal way of thinking, certain things are not okay in my book or in another famous book, which half the wqorld follows

 

[Mephistopheles]

hey man its just my opinion if you dont like it dont read it and i belive from the other opinions ive read on hear about this subject alot of other guys agree with me, i am a person who stands by his priciples whether you think there wrong or not i dont care that is what is wrong with this world to many people are being swayed into this ultra liberal way of thinking, certain things are not okay in my book or in another famous book, which half the wqorld follows

It's not liberal, it's the true spirit of freedom. Free to do whatever you want, as long as you do not harm others.

I could disagree with your book, because my book said your book is not OK. Does that make your book bad?

And as for half of the world, well, if 3 billion people slashed eachother to ribbons and raped the bloody remains, would that make it less repulsive?

 

[kenny]

really

everybody seems to forget with freedom comes responsibility, and you can disagree with that book all you want, the truth is the truth

 

[Mephistopheles]

everybody seems to forget with freedom comes responsibility, and you can disagree with that book all you want, the truth is the truth

Truth is that the responsibility that comes with freedom is to show respect to other people's freedom, even if that is out of line with your book.