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Quran Burning in Florida

Journia

3rd Level Blue Feather
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Hey all.

I've been reading over this intended Quran burning that is supposed to take place in Gainesville on Sept. 11.

I know a lot of people are really offended by this whole thing, going on and such, however, I'm a bit different.

I'm actually interested in seeing the guy actually pull it off. It'd be a very interesting look at how religious doctrine affects people on a large scale. And seeing what actually this will catalyze.

I'm honestly quite curious.

Sure, some people out here are thinking it, but not saying it. I'm just putting it out there at the risk of being flamed and smeared across the net.

And no, CIA operatives who browse this forum, I'm not a terrorist, don't lump me in with them. I'm just a curious person, looking around.

So, your thoughts on this?
 
My beef is that some people claim it's patriotic. They're showing love to their country, this one which I am often ashamed to be part of due to people like this, by the event of a Quran burning. Patriotism is described as, "devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty." That's just a bullshit excuse. The burning of a Quran is blatant racism. It shows hate for another country, not showing love for theirs. At least if they're going to do this they should admit exactly what it is they're doing instead of getting delusional, and then acting oblivious or bewildered when a group of Muslims get offended. God forbid something like this happens, would any terrorists begin planning something in retaliation out of spite? That'd be just perfect.

Though I too am curious as to if these people are going to go through with it. Not just way down there in Florida, but I know that people were planning it in Kentucky and I don't doubt they'd be planning it all over the country. I really would like to see if someone had the balls to do such a thing. Hell, do it at a site of worship for Muslims, in front of a big group. See if you make it out of there unscathed, not because of the false, "all Muslims are terrorists and will attack Americans for the fun of it," but because you just took a giant piss all over each and every one of them. On their religion, their culture, everything. Don't blame them for raging when you show extreme sacrilege and racism in front of their faces on their own holy grounds. You're the one that started it.

I'll follow in suit when I say I'm not a terrorist. I'm also not a sympathizer. I'm just a humble citizen standing here on the sidelines watching potential heinous, racist acts. Next year's gonna be the tenth year remembrance. Wonder what people will try to start then. God help us all =_=

And you know, that's not even getting into the possibilities of national stuff. Hoo boy...
 
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Is there a muslim equivalent to "oy vey"? Seriously, this is as bad as the whole ground zero mosque thing. No, wait, it's worse. Nazi book burning rallies come to mind. Ugh.
 
So much for "because we're the good guys we're supposed to be better than our enemies and not resort to the same tactics/methods/behaviors"?

Hatred is slowly winning it seems (shakes head in disapproval). Yes I'm against what Islam teaches but that doesn't give me the right to force others to comply with my way of thinking or put my own beliefs right in their faces. This is just fanning fuel to the fire and to be honest I'm not surprised it's a southern baptist preacher who is orchestrating this.

It's so nice of him to consider the hundreds of American citizens who are either criminal or political prisoners in Arabic jails. Indeed, it's very nice of him to consider the dozens of hostages that the Taliban and Suuni Insurgencies still claim they have in their grasp. How very thoughtful of this priest to think of our troops whose risk their lives every day in not one but two foreign Arabic nations. Fucking southern jackass hillbilly arrogant asshole twat!
 
...this is such a sensitive subject so,I will try and be gentle.I feel that it would only hinder any progress we have made.It could potentially put dozens of people in harms way.I understand that people are angry with Muslims,but when you take such drastic measures you endanger the lives of others.You can't fight fire with fire.It's sad to see people so angry that they label and lash out at everyone in that religion the way they have been.
I also want to point out,that if they do this..the terrorists will only use that against us.Just like with the mosque building.They clearly stated that they would use the mosque thing against us to create more terrorists.
I also do not understand,why a preacher who is supposed to be all holy and loving is spreading such hatred..
Another thing I want to point out above all else is Muslims are not the ones you should be angry with.It's the terrorists you should be angry with.On Sept.11th they came out and spoke against it.
Anyway,that is my take on things.I am very much against this and quite frankly...I thought it was an incredibly stupid idea,for all the above reasons mentioned.
 
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Am not an American sooo am not rly into this whole thing but from what i did hear ,see and read i can only say it's ridicoulous on both ends.

I just hope it stays with stupid book burning and not too much bombing runs after this event.
 
I thought it was spelled Koran? can it be both? and if the media didn't give it so much damn attention, we wouldn't even know about what a piss ant of a so called preacher does or does not do..
 
what pisses me off is that this is so close to where i live. i've never protested before, be i feel like driving the short distance there with a load of fire extinguishers to sells. you can't burn a book if someone keeps squirting your matches with extinguisher, and cops can't stop you if they are burning against the law, which they are.
 
god damned religious nuts. The more you fill your head with that garbage, the less space you have for logic. That's about all I have to say.
 
This is just another log on the fire for me, no pun intended. If we flipped this around and Muslims chose to burn bibles for one reason or another that preacher would lash out at them for the same reasons they are lashing out at him. He has his reasons, shame all those reasons are founded on ignorance.
This is another reason why I am thinking of oneday moving out of America, I am not leaving because of any politicians or anything like that, I'm just thinking of leaving because I'm sick of how we do things here. I'm tired of our government, and rather then trying to work with each other the party system just turns into a never ending battle between extreme left and right, and rather then try and help the country they are more interested in stall tactics until the next election. Lets see....tired of fox news and how they are allow to warp the minds so of many people with their twisted facts...fair and balanced, heh. I am even sick of the average american, no one specifically, but in my honest opinion, the average American today is not that smart, clear points to that is how still people believe Obama is Muslim. Then again I don't see why it matters, I wish religions and politics were truly separate, the best Presidents either would not disclose their religion, or just not have one. I don't think it right for politicians in any role to make choices that effect us all based off of their religion, since we have many religions in this country it just is not fair.
But I went off track here, in short that preacher is an idiot, I wont sugar coat it or try and think of ways it is right. Some things are simple and this is such a case, it's wrong and fueled by ignorance, we often forget it was not the Muslims that knocked down our towers, just a group of zealots that went astray and used religion to power their cause. As a last comment, and this may get people mad, but it's about time we let 9/11 ago, not forget about it, but let it go, stop lashing out because of it. Almost been ten years now and I know if I was killed on that day I would want my country and loved ones to move on and stop using it as an excuse to lash out, course we can't do that until we build something over the old scar, till then it's like looking at a picture of a lover that broke your heart everyday, it just does not help.
 
I've heard (on Twitter) that the Florida pastor has called off the Quran burning. Not sure how official this is, but if it's true, then good. Definitely don't need that shit.
 
This is just another log on the fire for me, no pun intended. If we flipped this around and Muslims chose to burn bibles for one reason or another that preacher would lash out at them for the same reasons they are lashing out at him. He has his reasons, shame all those reasons are founded on ignorance.


I have to agree with you on this.

According to Yahoo, he's cancelled the burning, for which I am grateful.
 
contradiction

Just seen the news and I see these crazy muslims burning an American flag! is that not offensive? (i'm welsh btw). Mosques should never ever been allowed to be built in Europe and America in the 1st place, just like we wouldn't be able to build a church in a muslim country. I'm not a racist I just don't like the way they dictate when they come to live in our country. If they want to live here then abide by our rules and speak our language as we are not a muslim country, otherwise go back home! . If we do not speak out and do something about these morons soon then they will take over, something has to be done NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Depends on the Muslim country. There were churches and even synagogues in Iraq before the Gulf War. There's a significant Christian community in Lebanon. The problem with stereotyping is that itn blurs out relevant doetails.[/QUOTEd]

Don't we have to abide by their religious beliefs and traditions when we visit their countries? i.e dress code. My point made I think! In the west we are to scared to upset the minorities.
 
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The whole thing is completely out of control, extremists always spoil things for the whole world.

9/11 has had a huge impact world wide with far reaching implications and concequences, now we have the possibility of a muslim building near the site and a rampant preacher going off at a tangent, both extremists fueling a huge fire.

Its not the religions or race that causes the problems but extremists do they ever think about the results of a small begining going global, this whole thing should have been played down.

I can understand the preacher but two wrongs don't make a right, is his 15 moments of fame worth global problems, its sheer provocation like wanting a mosque near to the 9/11 site.

But it dosn't just effect the USA its a global problem.

Live and let live give peace a chance will we never ever learn.
 
Okay, I am really irritated....the guy calls off the thing, then says he'll suspend it for now. Personally, I wanted to see him do this, and see people come around in protest. And I wanted to see how many dumb trucks would try to blow themselves up.

This is just disappointing. I even had my get out of the city stuff ready. Bloody Hickory Stick.
 
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/9501/

This article summarizes my opinion on the subject fairly well.


Frank Furedi
Why 9/11 gave rise to a carnival of confusion
The massive, unnecessary storm over the US pastor planning to burn some Korans speaks to the post-9/11 disarray of Western society.



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They say that confusion begets confusion. And now, on the ninth anniversary of the momentous events of 9/11, we can clearly see that America (and indeed Western society) is more confused than ever.

An anniversary like this should be an occasion for good people to take stock of a tragic event that continues to influence their lives. It should be a day of remembrance, when communities reflect on what was lost, tell stories about individual tragedies, and come together to gain strength from a feeling of common purpose. Instead, 9/11 has become a story without meaning. We see this on every anniversary, when conspiracy theorists, publicity-hungry moral entrepreneurs and professional victim lobbyists come into their own, forming an unholy alliance crusading to empty the anniversaries of their profound moral content.

These days it only takes one eccentric non-entity – like Pastor Terry Jones – to unleash a veritable panic about how the US will be seen by the rest of the world. The pastor, author of the soon-to-be bestseller Islam of the Devil, has warned that he and his evangelical church are organising an International Burn a Koran day to coincide with the ninth anniversary of 9/11. In a confident society which still had hold of its bearings, this promised publicity stunt by a tiny, Florida-based Christian group called the Dove World Outreach Center would be seen for what it is: an insignificant gesture by an inconsequential band of attention-seekers. However, today, the pastor and his followers’ infantile behaviour is being treated as a threat to global harmony and peace.

Numerous media outlets have warned about the ‘grave threat’ that the burning of the Korans poses to America’s security. ‘It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall [war] effort’, said General David Petraeus, the US and NATO commander in Afghanistan. Former British PM Tony Blair couldn’t resist getting in on the act, issuing a ‘plea’ to the pastor not to go ahead with his plan to burn the Korans. Even UN secretary-general Ban Ki-Moon has publicly stated that he is ‘deeply disturbed’ by the pastor’s plans.

It is even more dispiriting to read accounts of the coming remembrance of 9/11 as if it represents a prelude to a twenty-first-century version of Kristallnacht, only this time against Muslims. Isolated stunts like those promised by Terry Jones are depicted as being symptomatic of a powerful mood of xenophobia. Muslims in America are discussed as if they were a beleaguered community, possibly facing a future pogrom. Newspapers carefully report that American Muslims have been forced to increase security at mosques. ‘We can expect crazy people out there will do things, but we don’t want to create a hysteria [among Muslims]’, said Victor Begg of the Council of Islamic Organizations of Michigan. Unfortunately, the numerous ominous stories about a growing tide of Islamophobia can only amplify anxieties and turn confused fantasies into some kind of reality.

Whatever happens in the next few days (the ninth anniversary falls on Saturday), it is clear that the story of 9/11 is less and less about any external threat to America. Instead, it has become a story about America’s own internal tensions and its inability to give meaning to its own way of life. Back in September 2001, the American public was not aware of the idea of a ‘homegrown terrorist’. Yet today, it is the Muslim-American Faisal Shahzad – the so-called Times Square bomber – who personifies the threat of terrorism. This is a man described by his former next-door neighbour, a schoolteacher, as ‘normal’. When the boy next door can turn to terror, the question that arises is: ‘What if they – the terrorists – are actually us?’

What if they are us?
The problem of the homegrown threat endows that old question – ‘Why do they hate us?’ – with a powerful new meaning. Back in 2001, when then US president George W Bush first posed that question, he was being far from rhetorical. He could not help but acknowledge, publicly, a sense of genuine surprise and bewilderment. These are not sentiments that one normally expresses towards clearly acknowledged enemies. Neither Roosevelt nor Churchill needed to ask why the Nazis hated us, nor did Western leaders ask that question of the Kremlin. The anxiety expressed by this question semi-consciously reveals the concern that ‘they’ might be uncomfortably close to us. Worse still, since the apparent emergence of homegrown terrorism, there is great concern that ‘they’ might actually be ‘us’.

When this question was first formulated by Bush, it was premised on the idea that the enemy came from some faraway place. The problem and the source of terrorism were seen as being external to Western societies. Many of the theories about Muslim rage or a clash of civilisations focus on distant, exotic places, such as Afghanistan or Iran. Ironically, many of the critics of American and European foreign policy also put forward an externalist perspective, arguing that what really provokes terrorism is the oppression of Palestine and Western domination in the Middle East. So radical critics of the West, like Gary Younge, also locate the problem of terrorism as being somewhere ‘over there’. In Britain, the Oxford Research Group regularly publishes reports condemning the war in Iraq for encouraging global terrorism.

Since 9/11, however, it has become more and more difficult to ignore the fact that terrorism is not simply an external problem, but a domestic one, too. With the rise of so-called homegrown terrorism, the question of why they hate us has become bound up with a great deal of handwringing about why they are repelled by us and why they don’t want to be like us. British officials and analysts are continually shocked by revelations that a significant section of Britain’s Muslim youth has become sympathetic to a radical Islamic outlook. The British media tell stories of young people who apparently lived the lives of English-born, Westernised teenagers before suddenly becoming radicalised and turning into bitter enemies of their country of birth.

The realisation that these people who were born here are not like us, do not want to be like us and actually even hate us gives the threat of terrorism a very intimate status. And it is not only in Britain that people have discovered that their next-door neighbours are not who they thought they were. In Holland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Belgium, Canada and the US, it is now recognised that some young people have developed an extreme hatred for the Western way of life.



The discovery of homegrown radicalisation calls into question the conventional portrayal of the ‘war on terror’. Not only has the distinction between them and us become more confused – the conflict also increasingly points to tensions within Western society itself. It has been recognised that, in recent years, a significant proportion of terrorist activity in the West has been carried out by independent, homogeneous networks. It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that, to some people living in the West, their society’s way of life appears repulsive. This development poses the question of ‘who is next’? The problem posed by the ascendancy of the homegrown radical is that the terrorist could be almost anybody. In Europe, security analysts concede that it is becoming impossible to make a profile of the terrorist.

At a time when homegrown and external threats appear so confusing, elevating terrorism as ‘the enemy’ provides little obvious meaning to society. And in such circumstances, it can become difficult to know what to say and how to act. Should the commemoration of 9/11 be a celebration of the American way of life? Should it be about communicating a sense of patriotic defiance? An opportunity for overcoming profound cultural divisions? Is it a reminder of a nation’s capacity to come together, or does it expose a society deeply at unease with itself? That America is so easily distracted by the clownish antics of Pastor Terry Jones suggests that it would prefer not to face up to these kinds of questions.

For a brief moment, many observers believed that 9/11 would represent a rallying point and provide the West with a sense of mission. For a few months it did. However, in the absence of a coherent system of meaning, the West has struggled to promote its own values. Instead, it relies on tawdry advertising and marketing. In October 2001, advertising executive Charlotte Beers was appointed US secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs. Her mission was to gain the assistance of Madison Avenue public relations firms in helping to rebrand and sell America to a hostile Muslim world. This focus on improving ‘the image’ indicated that American was not prepared to engage in a serious battle of ideas. That was then… and now, nine years later, Washington still hasn’t realised that the profound problem it faces is not one of branding. General Petraeus has warned that the image of Korans burning could be as bad for America as ‘the images from Abu Ghraib’, revealing that America’s military and political leaders still see their problems in terms of imagery alone.

Catastrophes, wars and major historical events have important material, geopolitical and economic consequences. They challenge a society’s capacity to make sense of the unexpected, and its belief in its own way of life. In material terms, 9/11 was a minor incident: economic disruption soon gave way to an upturn, and in terms of daily routine people showed that they possessed the resilience to carry on. For most of us, it was business as usual. However, 9/11 exposed and brought to the surface the difficulty Western society has in giving meaning to its way of life. Having avoided confronting this problem, the unity experienced in the aftermath of this event has given way to some very homegrown tensions and divisions. The best way to commemorate 9/11 would be to direct our intellectual and political energies towards working out some of the answers to the questions that our leaders don’t even want to ask.

Frank Furedi is author of a number of books including Invitation to Terror and Politics of Fear. Visit his website here.
 
Okay, I am really irritated....the guy calls off the thing, then says he'll suspend it for now. Personally, I wanted to see him do this, and see people come around in protest. And I wanted to see how many dumb trucks would try to blow themselves up.

This is just disappointing. I even had my get out of the city stuff ready. Bloody Hickory Stick.

You're a real humanitarian, aren't you. :rolleyes
 
That pastor has a congregation of about 55, has lost his ministry's tax-exempt status, and his real estate is apparently in foreclosure. He had to do something to attract attention to himself and away from his ministry's liabilities.
 
If the media didn't exaggerate this case by several orders of magnitude, who'd care?
 
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