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Real Experience and Question

confessor

TMF Novice
Joined
Sep 26, 2001
Messages
62
Points
6
Last night we had a party in our apartment. A cute little blonde came over with awesome feet. She had perfectly-shaped plump little toes, sporting a great french pedicure. Her feet were tanned and looked very soft. I asked about her pedicure and she said she gets one every two weeks. She let me see it upclose but would not remove her sandal, because she said she was too ticklish, and wouldn't let anybody touch her soles. (This statement didn't make sense to me, because she gets regular pedicures, but anyway). She is kind of a bitch, really uptight, very demanding, and not all that friendly. I knew I had to tickle those lovely feet before she left for the night.

Late in the evening, her sandals had come off. We began playing a game where one person would draw on a dry erase board and everyone else would try to guess what it was. She was so short that she had to kneel in a bar chair to reach the board. When she did this, her pretty feet stuck out the back of the chair, with the soles facing the rest of us. This was just too much for me to resist. While everyone else was paying attention to her drawing, I came up behind her and attacked one of her soles. Her sole was really soft (you could tell she got regular pedicures, not one hint of callous). She screamed and turned to see who it was, but did not really laugh. Then, she began wiggling her foot and yelling at me to stop. Since I was kinda drunk, I did not stop, and just kept running my fingers all over her lovely sole and into the undersides of her perfect toes. I was determined to get some giggles out of her, but it did not happen. She just kept demanding that I stop. Eventually one of my buddies pushed me away. He was kinda pissed that I would not stop.

This is where the story gets interesting. Every time her turn came back up, she would kneel in the chair the same way, with her feet facing right at me. She could have found another way to get to the board but she didn't (like standing on the chair). Every time she did this, I would tickle those soft soles and toes. She would demand that I stop, and I did, because at this point, I was kinda nervous about everyone's negative reaction to what I was doing. Since I did not stay on her feet for long, my buddy never had time to push me away. This happened about 3 or 4 times until the game was over.

So here is my question: Has anyone else had experience with onlookers trying to get you to stop tickling? I could not believe my buddy pushed me out of the way. I also could not believe everyone else stood there and looked at me like I was a stupid a-hole. Why in the hell didn't these people join in with the tickling, or at least laugh and egg me on? I haven't had anyone join in with me in tickling a girl since high school. Now that I am in grad school, everyone acts like I am a freak. What happened to that fun-loving attitude people had toward tickling in my teenage years?

Oh well. Even though I pissed everybody off, the tickling was worth it. Maybe my actions will encourage these people to lighten up.
 
Reading between the lines, this girl is only an acquaintance of yours. If she had wanted you to keep tickling, or didn't mind if you did, she would have let you know. She told you to stop tickling, and meant it. You kept it up anyway. That makes you a drunken asshole (maybe you're OK when sober, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.)

As for why your friends didn't join in, see Sentence #3 above.

Strelnikov
 
Maybe my perspective on this is totally wrong. Perhaps I should re-examine my position. But here's what I am thinking:

It is my opinion that 99% of the people you tickle are going to say "no, stop, or don't". Its part of the ordinary verbage of being tickled. It is also my opinion that, unless you are paying for it or in a committed relationship, most casual tickling is going to be technically nonconsenual. In real world situations, I have never seen a tickler get permission from a ticklee before tickling them. I have also never seen a ticklee fail to ask the tickler to stop.

I can see how restraining someone and subjecting them to prolonged tickling against their will would make one an asshole. However, I have a hard time seeing how a short 10 second tickle, where the person can easily get away (I wasn't even holding her ankle), makes one an asshole, just because the person is saying "stop".

These short nonconsenual tickles were always a part of the normal boy-girl interactions when I was growing up. While the girls found it annoying, no one was really hurt or pushed too far. I would never favor tickle torturing someone against their will. However, I feel these short tickles (where the ticklee is not restrained in any way) is a normal part of the playful interaction that occurs when guys and gals get together. I just don't see any harm in it.

Perhaps the line I am trying to draw between full blown nonconsensual tickle torture and short nonconsensual but playful tickles is nonsensical. Perhaps both are morally wrong. For some reason, those casual tickles just feel okay to me. I guess it is because I have seen so much of it in my life.
 
I think there's something being overlooked here. There's a difference between a willing victim saying "stop" and an unwilling one saying it. It appears that you got an UNwilling one. If so, your buddy was right in pushing you away. And, your friends were right in not encouraging you.

As we get older, many of us DO tend to lose some of that innocent sponteneity that we had as kids. But, we can still have fun. Don't let this keep you from exploring the love of tickling. But, also, consider not pressing your luck with a truly unwilling victim. It's MUCH more fun and satisfying to have a victim who truly enjoys it.

Ann
 
Getting ready to break open the Campbell's Can-O-Worms, here.....

Okay, here we go....several points I just have to bring up;

1: "She is kind of a bitch, really uptight, very demanding, and not all that friendly. I knew I had to tickle those lovely feet before she left for the night."
-- So, despite her being so unpleasant, you just *had* to indulge your (ok, I'll be fair..*our*) little hobby. Because it wasn't about her, it was about doing what you wanted to do. Not a good blueprint for a friendly, innocent tickle there.

2: "I was determined to get some giggles out of her, but it did not happen. She just kept demanding that I stop."
-- This may come as a complete shock, but if a woman is being tickled, and she isn't fond of the tickler, she probably will not laugh. This is not a fantasy scenario or a video, here, this is reality. If you walked up to any of the adorable, genuinely ticklish models from an MTP video and suddenly pounced on her feet, do you really think they would respond with lilting, musical giggles? Or are you more likely to get led away in cuffs, with a face full of pepper spray? (Or, as we called it back when I was a cop, "bringing one in, Cajun Style")

3: "This is where the story gets interesting. Every time her turn came back up, she would kneel in the chair the same way, with her feet facing right at me. She could have found another way to get to the board but she didn't (like standing on the chair)."
-- Have you ever tried to stand on a bar chair? Because she didn't want to break her neck, it meant she somehow wanted you to tickle her? Just because she didn't take great pains (and risk physical harm) to deter you from tickling her, that wasn't an invitation.
I'm an avid belly tickler...but I don't see every bare midriff as an invitation. A temptation, sure.... 🙂

4: "I could not believe my buddy pushed me out of the way. I also could not believe everyone else stood there and looked at me like I was a stupid a-hole. Why in the hell didn't these people join in with the tickling, or at least laugh and egg me on?"
-- (NEWS FLASH NEWS FLASH NEWS FLASH) Not everyone is into tickling. As a matter of fact, some people don't like it at all. They're not necessarily so weird for feeling that way. Just because *I* would have liked seeing it, doesn't mean the rest of the people would have. They looked at you like a stupid a-hole because you were acting like one. Just as we're not so "weird" for liking tickling, "normal" people aren't so weird for not feeling the same way about it. If spanking was your thing, would it have been okay to start paddling her butt every time she turned her back to you? Your buddy was trying to keep you from embarassing yourself.
Don't get me wrong, party tickles are a great thing, with the right crowd. You obviously had the wrong crowd. They're not going to change, just because you're into it.

5: "Oh well. Even though I pissed everybody off, the tickling was worth it."
-- I hope it was, because in may have cost a good deal more than you may think.


(Stepping down from my self-righteous, omniscient podium and returning to the ranks of regular folks)

Wolf
 
Gotta agree with the rest. All the clues were there...you should have read them better.
 
I read somewhere about a three strikes rule when tickling. If someone tells you to stop three times you have crossed the line. Given that most casual tickling is non-consensual. That is not really the right term. It should be called non-requested tickling. Non-consensual is when they really ask you to stop and you keep tickling anyway.
 
Thanks for the feedback folks.
I will try to be more discriminating next time.
 
Confessor,

In my opinion, most everyone was a little harsh on you.
You were at a party, it wasn't like you were at work or a business environment.

Do you know how many guys I've seen do stupid stuff at a party? Especially to a bitchy gal.
One point is valid, when they aren't into tickling they don't laugh, usually they get mad. I've been there.

To me had she been bitchy the first time I tickled her feet, I wouldn't have wanted to again. Personality of the gal matters to me.
Yeah you were drunk, so you became annoying to her then others. What drunk isn't?

You had some fun, it was just her feet and no harm done. It wasn't like you had her held down against her will or anything to that extent. I wouldn't worry about it, people need to chill a little bit. It was just having fun.

DK
 
i'm torn between both sides

on one hand, if she didn't like your tickling her feet, why didn't she put her shoes back on? and after all, you weren't trying to tickle her bobs! it was only her feet!
the flip side. if as you freely admitted, she was a bitch, why would you even want to tickle her??? you were drunk, right? maybe, just maybe you were doing it for longer that 10 seconds? maybe you looked really sloppy, and no one wanted to join with a sloppy drunk? and lastly, she's bitchie, who wants to tickle a bitch?
next time chose wisely, and don't drink so much.

steve
 
I agree with Darkknight (although I still maintain that Superman could beat Batman in a fight), I think some have been unnecessarily harsh. Confessor may have done something a little bit stupid, but haven't we all, at some point?

What I'll say to Confessor is this...

While it's true that

"short nonconsenual tickles were always a part of the normal boy-girl interactions when I was growing up..."

that time is over.

When you're a kid, it's cool.

When you're an adult, not so cool.

From one stupid guy to another.


😉
 
I just think you need to feel its the right environment/time to tickle,plus enjoy it/get the right reactions.Doesn't sound like that was it though.

Happy tickling to all:devil:

Footman
 
First of all, Batman may be physically weaker than Superman, but he is one clever guy. Read the Dark Knigh Returns for an example... 😀

As for the tickling, party tickles are fun, but you have to have the right crowd and you should not be too drunk to look like an @$$hole. You should be in control of the situation.

As for tickling a bitchy woman, why not? It is actually kind of reinvigorating to put such a self-righteous woman down to her knees with such a simple "tool" (I mean tickling, of course).

From the description I do not think there was any chemistry between you and the lady, and/or the crowd. You had fun, but they did not. Jsut be careful in choosing your scenarios.

However, you cannot learn from other people's experiences. You learn from what you do and experience. This will teach you how to asses another situation in the future.

Just be careful to know "the" limits so that you do not go too far.

Take care,

Knight Tickler
 
GGGRR HANDS OFF

Folks, I'm gonna be a crab for a minute.

You know I love you guys and respect all of you, but I have to say that I don't feel anyone was too harsh on confessor. I'm honestly not picking on him personally, but I've read many posts and heard guys tell a similar story all too often.

I am soooo very tired of hearing "it's just tickling" or "it's not like it was her boobs/ass/etc." You may NOT touch someone else's body without permission, ESPECIALLY if they already said NO. Now I know that casual tickling is an accepted thing in most circles, but that doesn't make it okay. Trust me, I've been a girl for years now-we HATE it when some drunken doofus at a party or club thinks he's being charming and puts his hands on our person. Our kink makes normally 'neutral' body parts the target, and somehow that makes it alright-it's still not. Why is my foot less a personal part of me than my rear end or my nipple? If I told you that a guy kept touching my breasts after I told him not to, I doubt you'd be surprised when I finished the story with his visiting hours at the hospital. My toes/ribs/underarms are MINE just like my other parts.


It's my body, and if I tell you not to touch it you need to respect that. Furthermore, the next time you boys wonder why more 'hot girls' don't want to be tickled, think about what might have been done to them without their permission.

Bella
 
DON'T EVER DO THAT WITH ME!

I totally agree with Bella.... and Strelnikov... and WOLF.

I don't care what part of my body it is..... Any guy touches me without permission, they may get a warning if they are lucky. And I only give one. Do it again and I will beat that ASS! :sowrong:

I've physically set straight many of boys (A real man would never cross the line) and I take this seriously. My body... my rules... my decisions. Don't like it.... too bad. Find some other girl to feel up on.

AND...If you guys think being drunk is an excuse, I got a little something something that will make you sober up REAL QUICK.

Sunrise... who did NOT think that was cute or funny.
:Kiss2:

Woman can wear her shoes, take them off, stand up sit down... its her damn body. And don't mistake an open invitation by just because of how a person acts and what a person wears.... sounds like something a serial rapist would do. (I am NOT calling anyone a rapist in this post so if you reply... come correct!)
 
I got love for the women here but.....

there is a fine line between a true asshole that is trying to cop a feel and someone being playful even if in a very annoying manner (alcohol never helps this trait).

Perhaps it does depend on the exact situation and exact tickler and ticklee "target". I didn't state a free license to touch any female after they say no. It's clear he was in a social environment, trying to be loose and drinking triggered his need to a simple tickling impulse.

It was a party and many, many, many times have I seen non-ticklephiles give rib pokes after seeing the girl get mad a few times and they end up in the bedroom later that night (no, it was never me).

Give the kid a break, he hasn't posted a lot and was sharing a story and I felt he got jumped on.
Regardless if the majority felt he was some kind of super creep, he wasn't and I'll let him know I didn't think he was.

Caped-guys speak for all, not just the popular opinion. The things I saw at a gathering once made his story laughable. So again, Confessor... just be careful of the situations but still have fun.

DK

p.s.- Don't even get me on that Superman/Batman topic again! 😛
 
There are two great quotes I'm fond of that have bearing on Confessor's situation.

"No woman or child should ever know the malicious strike of a man's hand. They are temples and bear the same penalty for desecration."
- Chogai Takato, Pre-Tokugawa Shogun of Japan and author of many of the principles of Bushido, quoted in Lone Wolf and Cub

"Bad things happen to you because you're a dumbass."
- Red Foreman, angry dad, That 70s Show
 
For Bella and Sunrise, I just wanted to point out that, in my earlier post, although I remarked that IMO some here have been unnecessarily harsh, I never condoned what Confessor did. I agreed that he was in the wrong in that situation.
 
Riddle me this, Batman...

I love you Logan, you know I do-but I'm all over this:


"there is a fine line between a true asshole that is trying to cop a feel and someone being playful even if in a very annoying manner (alcohol never helps this trait)."

I don't understand how we got 'playful' from his touching a woman, not once but over and over again, that he said was bitchy and with whom he wasn't really friends. I'm NOT calling him an asshole, that's not my word-but if someone I barely knew and wasn't truly fond of kept touching me even after I had said NO and another male had told him to leave me alone and actually shoved him away...

"Perhaps it does depend on the exact situation and exact tickler and ticklee "target". I didn't state a free license to touch any female after they say no. It's clear he was in a social environment, trying to be loose and drinking triggered his need to a simple tickling impulse."

I have several issues with this. One, alcohol is not an excuse to be rude or improper. If you can't handle your liquor don't drink, next time you may wake up minus a few teeth at the very least. Two, you didn't exactly give him license but you did suggest that people were being too harsh on him for his action-which WAS touching a female after she said no. Making light of uncool behavior is the quickest way to ensure it happens again. (I'm a mom, trust me on this one.) And it does indeed depend on the 'ler and 'lee; the 'lee needs to be *willing*. I get REALLY annoyed with a person's personal space being violated because someone else didn't like his/her attitude and felt the need to do something. It wasn't his right to tickle her because she was being a 'bitch' and he 'had to hear her giggle'. If he were into spanking, and kept swatting her and trying to make her cry instead of laugh, would your attitude be the same? Yes, I know, tickling is different...


"It was a party and many, many, many times have I seen non-ticklephiles give rib pokes after seeing the girl get mad a few times and they end up in the bedroom later that night (no, it was never me)."


Yes, I saw similar occurences in college. I repeat, that doesn't make it right. Sometimes the guy got lucky and it was seen by the girl as flirting. I saw just as many guys end up with black eyes or split lips, asked to leave the party. And I never, ever saw a guy keep at it after another GUY told him to stop. "she said no but maybe she meant yes" is a disaster waiting to happen, we've all seen the aterschool specials. But you know that, hence the "no, it was never me".

"Give the kid a break, he hasn't posted a lot and was sharing a story and I felt he got jumped on.
Regardless if the majority felt he was some kind of super creep, he wasn't and I'll let him know I didn't think he was."

And you have the right to express that. Just as the women here have the right to tell him why we HATE that type of behavior and we don't feel that it should be tolerated. (Notice not one female has been in favor of what he did.)Furthermore, he didn't get 'jumped on' because of his actions, in my opinion. It was the attitude. Not once did he acknowledge that he had no right to continue to touch this woman who had told him no. Rather, he was annoyed that his friends were so displeased, and couldn't grok why they didn't jump in and help him with his nonconsensual touching. Doesn't matter if it was his first post or his 100th.


If she were your girlfriend or little sister, would you feel the same?

"Caped-guys speak for all, not just the popular opinion. The things I saw at a gathering once made his story laughable."

I don't know what you saw. I do know that at gatherings I've attended we have safewords. If you utter your safeword and the tickling doesn't stop, I feel sorry for that tickler. I have never, in 3 years and many gatherings on two different coasts, had my rights to my body violated. Vanilla people don't have safewords-oh wait, yes they do-NO and STOP. And I know you, DK, and Max and DVNC and others. If I came to any of you at a gathering and told you that someone wouldn't listen to me and kept touching me after I'd told them not to, I know what would happen. That makes me feel safe and cared for. I wish girls at vanilla parties had that comfort.


I have to say this-I realize that I must appear to be taking this way too seriously. The reason I feel so strongly is that in this community, and the BDSM and spanking communities that I also belong to, I feel safer than I ever have in my life. That's because of how protected I am. I can walk around completely nude at a party, and no one who doesn't know me extremely well will even put a hand on my shoulder without explicit permission. I've gotten very used to that, to knowing that I can be myself and no one will take advantage. It's saddening and infuriating to hear that someone in this community doesn't understand that. My hope is that confessor, and any other young man who reads this, will realize that it's NOT okay to keep going after she says no, whether its her ribs or feet or her bottom-and how damaging it can be if you don't stop.

Bella
 
First let me say, I do agree confessor's actions were inappropriate. He should've stopped tickling, when it was apparent the young lady didn't enjoy it. Yeah I know, alcohol tends to impair one's judgement, but he definitely should've gotten the message after his friend tackled him.
However, that being said, most of the people on this post are being way too harsh on the guy. He asks for advice, and he's basically attacked being called an a-hole, a drunken doofus, and made to feel like a criminal. How would you all like it, if whenever you asked someone's opinion, they responded by calling you names? I thought this was supposed to be an open, and friendly forum. Bella mentioned feeling safe, in this community. Doesn't confessor deserve the same consideration?
 
Bella,

Ya know, I can't really say much more on what I already have... so I will just add this. Just cuz I'm a guy doesn't mean I don't know how my female friends get treated. Guess who has to hear all their stories?

But anyway I respect your opinion and thank you for letting me speak mine. Not all guys are scumbugs, so I speak for the few that are apparently left on the planet.

The tone in your reply to Confessor's post is what had me post in his defense. I agree, you came off very serious on him perhaps due to your own experiences. Again, not all of us are deviant monsters.

Drinking is not an excuse for most everything but he was just chillin' at a party. I guess I just will leave the thread alone now.

And Bella... ummm... my name isn't Logan... I just liked that name cuz it was Wolvie's name and my bro's name.

Well anyway, I'm done now.

DK
 
My body, my temple. Nobody enters without my permission. However, uninvited guests are always coming by. How you deal with those cases is you own decision.

We do not have all the exact details of the situation besides what was provided by Confessor. Hence, everyone is responding based on his/her own experiences. Only Confessor knows what he did and how it felt. The post was done basically for a secondary opinion to either validate his point or to contradict it.

I believe he already got the message. I do not think it is worth spend more time overanalyzing the situation.

Bye,

Knight Tickler

P.S. Hey DK, are you ready for the Batman vs. Superman movie? 😀
 
Well folks,

I certainly did not intend to cause all this trouble. But I feel I should add a little detail to clear up some of the confusion.

First of all, the only time my tickling went beyond her statements of "no and stop" was the first time. That's when my buddy (who has the hots for this girl) pushed me away (he did not tackle me). Again, this only lasted about 10 seconds, maybe even less. He was laughing at the whole situation, but I could tell it was a nervous laugh like "please don't do this to her". I have done this to other girls he has liked, so he's kinda used to it. I have no intention of trying to get with her. I just wanted to tickle her. I will probably never do it again (curiosity got the best of me).

The second and third times I tickled her, I immediately quit when she said "stop". Perhaps, I should not have done it a second and third time. If she had sounded really distraught at my first tickle, and truly scolded me, I would not have done it another two times. But she didn't. It was almost like a minor annoyance to her. I have no desire to torment someone, and I don't think it went that far.

I am sure my drinking made me a lot braver than I usually am. I understand that "no" means "no" and "stop" means "stop", especially in the context of a sexual encounter. I admit that I probably should have cut it off quicker the first time around. But I did respect her wishes the second and third times. And she never told me, "Don't do that again". If she had, I would not have done it again. So I don't think it was as serious a situation as some of yall think.

This seems to be a very tricky issue. I consider myself to be a caring and respectful person, especially toward women. I do not want to tarnish that image. All I can do is try to be more discerning next time.

Thanks for listening,
confessor
 
Just doing that thing I do by playing the devil's advocate...

Interesting points you have all made, no real clear-cut right and wrong answers (as always), but due to the lack of support, I'm going to try to make a couple of effective arguments for confessor here.

"there is a fine line between a true asshole that is trying to cop a feel and someone being playful even if in a very annoying manner (alcohol never helps this trait)."

I don't understand how we got 'playful' from his touching a woman, not once but over and over again, that he said was bitchy and with whom he wasn't really friends. I'm NOT calling him an asshole, that's not my word-but if someone I barely knew and wasn't truly fond of kept touching me even after I had said NO and another male had told him to leave me alone and actually shoved him away...

First of all, I don't see what another male's opinion has to do with tickling a girl. If I am going to tickle a girl, I don't poll the entire room before doing going ahead with my action -- I could frankly care less. Having said that, the ability to *pull* tickling off is truly all about the attitude. I personally wouldn't have too much of an instinct toward tickling a girl I didn't truly care about (an attitude that has matured very much since my high school years!), but if you really want to tickle a "bitch," a technique of quick tickling, retreating, and smiling has always seemed to work pretty well. As long as you don't get overly antaganistic or obsessive about it, I don't really foresee the girl complaining too much (unless she just *really* didn't like being tickled!).

"Perhaps it does depend on the exact situation and exact tickler and ticklee "target". I didn't state a free license to touch any female after they say no. It's clear he was in a social environment, trying to be loose and drinking triggered his need to a simple tickling impulse."

I have several issues with this. One, alcohol is not an excuse to be rude or improper. If you can't handle your liquor don't drink, next time you may wake up minus a few teeth at the very least. Two, you didn't exactly give him license but you did suggest that people were being too harsh on him for his action-which WAS touching a female after she said no. Making light of uncool behavior is the quickest way to ensure it happens again. (I'm a mom, trust me on this one.) And it does indeed depend on the 'ler and 'lee; the 'lee needs to be *willing*. I get REALLY annoyed with a person's personal space being violated because someone else didn't like his/her attitude and felt the need to do something. It wasn't his right to tickle her because she was being a 'bitch' and he 'had to hear her giggle'. If he were into spanking, and kept swatting her and trying to make her cry instead of laugh, would your attitude be the same? Yes, I know, tickling is different...

And tickling *is* different from spanking/slapping, because the end result of making someone laugh versus making someone cry (while they do share some similarities in extended, erotic situations) really couldn't be *more* different. And while I agree with you in general about people's personal space being violated, I don't really understand the philosophy behind going to a party and being super uptight about your surroundings. If you want to have your *personal space* stay home. People go to parties to connect with other people. While I admit that this doesn't give every Dick and Jane (hey, it's the 90s! 😀) due "license to touch," I think you have to at least respect the fact that when people get together in a casual environment, there are going to be physical attempts at flirtation -- and (unfortunately) sometimes these attempts are made even if the attraction isn't necessarily mutual.


Yes, I saw similar occurences in college. I repeat, that doesn't make it right. Sometimes the guy got lucky and it was seen by the girl as flirting. I saw just as many guys end up with black eyes or split lips, asked to leave the party. And I never, ever saw a guy keep at it after another GUY told him to stop. "she said no but maybe she meant yes" is a disaster waiting to happen, we've all seen the aterschool specials. But you know that, hence the "no, it was never me".

Again, I don't comprehend this OTHER guy syndrome you keep referring to. On the (extremely rare) occassion that I do tickle an relatively new acquaintance, I usually take her at her own word and judgment. Of course she is probably going to protest with a flurry of "no's" while I'm doing the tickling, which is why it's important to establish some playful-yet-essential banter immediately afterward to see where she stands on the issue of being touched/tickled (i.e. "Hmm...I wonder if I can get away with that again.."). Body language becomes just as important if not more so than verbal language in these situations, as most people -- especially young ones -- are not all that comfortable with publicly acknowledging (or denying) something they might secretly enjoy. Again, I don't see where the guy fits in -- even if it's her boyfriend. While in practice, I probably wouldn't involve myself in such a situation, in theory, there is really nothing wrong with it (can you tell I'm a little shaky on the merits of long-term relationships?). If a girl you meet at a party is enjoying (verbally or non-verbally) your physical contact, I see no reason why it can't continue until proven otherwise.

If she were your girlfriend or little sister, would you feel the same?

That's an interesting point, although it's vaguely relevant. No matter what your gender, relation, race, creed, or color, you still have to learn how to effectively communicate with all types of people -- from gentlemen to scumbags.

I do know that at gatherings I've attended we have safewords. If you utter your safeword and the tickling doesn't stop, I feel sorry for that tickler. I have never, in 3 years and many gatherings on two different coasts, had my rights to my body violated. Vanilla people don't have safewords-oh wait, yes they do-NO and STOP. And I know you, DK, and Max and DVNC and others. If I came to any of you at a gathering and told you that someone wouldn't listen to me and kept touching me after I'd told them not to, I know what would happen. That makes me feel safe and cared for. I wish girls at vanilla parties had that comfort.

In theory, this makes sense. But as someone else perceptively pointed out elsewhere in this thread, it is a natural (and very common) reaction to say "no" and "stop" when being tickled -- hell, most of the ticklees I have talked to in this very forum behave in that exact same way. The key here is the body language and facial reactions afterward -- if the person noticeably pulls away, or gets a genuinely upset look on her face when the tickling has concluded -- she most likely has not enjoyed it. Knowing this, I don't see how a person can continue on with the tickling in good conscience.

I have to say this-I realize that I must appear to be taking this way too seriously. The reason I feel so strongly is that in this community, and the BDSM and spanking communities that I also belong to, I feel safer than I ever have in my life. That's because of how protected I am. I can walk around completely nude at a party, and no one who doesn't know me extremely well will even put a hand on my shoulder without explicit permission. I've gotten very used to that, to knowing that I can be myself and no one will take advantage. It's saddening and infuriating to hear that someone in this community doesn't understand that. My hope is that confessor, and any other young man who reads this, will realize that it's NOT okay to keep going after she says no, whether its her ribs or feet or her bottom-and how damaging it can be if you don't stop.

I agree with everything you say here, Bella.
 
Re: Sunrise's Post...

I've physically set straight many of boys (A real man would never cross the line) and I take this seriously. My body... my rules... my decisions. Don't like it.... too bad. Find some other girl to feel up on.

Sunrise, the main problem here -- at least as I see it -- is rooted in our country's sociology and culture. Yes, I know it's the new millenium and all that crap, but the fact is, there's still a lot of pressure on guys to make the first move. Obviously, this results in some completely boneheaded mistakes by guys who are moving in: a) too early, b) on girls who aren't even remotely interested, or c) both a) and b). You say, "your body...your rules...your decisions," but that's a bit of a misnomer, especially if you've ever had a boyfriend before (and I know for a fact you have). No matter how hard you can try to convince yourself otherwise, physical connections have always been -- and always will be -- two-way streets. Otherwise, you would never agreed to be tied up. Otherwise, people would always have to have other people's permission before going in for the kiss -- and really -- how much fun is *that*? See, the minute you attempt to fuse relationships and intimacy with rules and control is the very minute you suck all the spontaneity and excitement out of any given romantic situation. Think about any person you've ever had a crush on...did you ever want him to act like a total gentleman and follow all the rules when it came to exploring your body? Of course not. Well, with the sweet comes the sour, and as such, with the hunks come the creeps. And for the record, I think it would be beneficial as a race, we could finally admit that the biggest difference between "creeps" and "hunks" is all a matter of perspective. By some random sparks of the universe, we just so happen to find the behavior of certain people more appealing (or perhaps less digusting) than others -- one woman's creep is another woman's hunk. And as long as there is hot, passionate sex going on between women and their "hunks", there is also going to be sexual abuse between women and "creeps." And the truth is, the difference between the two is really a lot slimmer than most people would like to admit.

Woman can wear her shoes, take them off, stand up sit down... its her damn body. And don't mistake an open invitation by just because of how a person acts and what a person wears.... sounds like something a serial rapist would do. (I am NOT calling anyone a rapist in this post so if you reply... come correct!)

It is her damn body, Sunrise, and what she does with it speaks volumes about what kind of person she is. 😛 Chances are, if a girl is taking her shoes off, jumping around, and acting goofy, it would lead me to believe she is the kind of free spirit that would be *okay* with a little bit of tickling. Not saying I would personally act on that observation (I talk a big game, but my own personality is largely repressive), but I do think a person's (whether it be a man or a woman) behavior goes a long way towards determining how I treat that person. The reason for this is I come from the school of thought that says to treat people the way they treat others -- nevermind the fact that that particular philosophy is flawed in the Christian-sense that it assumes that all people indeed do treat others the way they would like to be treated. But I'm sure you probably do the same thing -- don't you find yourself being more open with the people that are open with you? Again, by no means is this any sign that it's a god-given right to tie up these free-spirited girls and tickle them senseless, but a poke in the ribs? Goes with the territory, methinks.

By the way, one of my all-time favorite quotes on this subject: "Just because a woman takes off all of her clothes, straddles you, and begins humping doesn't mean she actually wants to f*ck you. 😀
 
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