Religion - Future discussion

[ReturntoGod]

I'll no longer be an active particpant in the general discussion of this forum (yes, you may all give you "phews!" now)

I have my own forum. I have done what was asked of me. I have invited you back. I have tried to reach you. No more is required of me. If this is how you decide to live your lives and entertain your physical fancies - that is your business. Just be prepared to except the consequences of this immoral life. I know what is coming. Many others do as well. They have been to Medjugorje. But that place, Holy as it is, is not needed as a thermometer for our times.

I have warned you all of what is coming. Few have taken heed. I will pray for you in the coming times. I will pray for your conversion. This is the "Hour of Mercy", it has been descried by past Popes, by Saints, by Jesus himself. It is a brief hour. It is the last chance for those who have chosen to sin against God. It is why the Blessed Mother is in Medjugorje now, it is why she weeps. She knows the hour is near it's end and that so many of her children have turned away. She knows what awaits them when the hour of judgement comes. You have chosen your course, you have turned from God and in your depravity, mocked Him. So be it!

I will not post to this board again(except in links), on that you have my promise. But understand this...A time is coming, indeed it is already at the threshold, in which all will be put aright. You sin against God and have no fear of repricussion. Turn back, this is the last chance. The hour of mercy is SO short. I have been studying, reading, laboring over these things my whole life. I never came to understand them until I began praying. It is not too late. There are still precious seconds left before the damn closes. You are standing outside now and you will be swept away with the storm. Get inside while there is still time. Turn back to God. Give up this sinful lifestyle.

I beseech you now, for the last time. Jesus loves all his children and so he has given them this brief hour, this hour of mercy. It is our last chance to turn back, our last chance at redemption. If you raise your nose at it - then woe betide you. I know what awaits you and I shed tears for you. This is the final hour for conversion. If you turn away, if you think yourself safe, if you count on science, on nature, on the natural law......then you will be put before the face of God and He will judge you.

Are you ready? He is at the door. I say all of this for your benefit because the Blessed Mother asks me to write to you now. This is your LAST chance. Turn away or suffer Hell for eternity.

If I can help any of you in any way, then please email me at: [email protected] I will call you, pray with you if you desire, please call! Ask for Scott.

Scott
http://www.scott.skullbytes.com/

 

[qjakal]

Not All....

You know it's not "all" that will be sighing with relief Scott...just as it's never "all" of us that either agree or disagree on many subjects. Hope you have what you need and enjoy your chosen path, and perhaps if there is a merciful God somewhere we'll all meet up yet! Q

 

[LordProtector]

When he comes to my door, will he want candy? I mention this because I ate most of it. Wouldn't want him to be anymore PO'ed at me than he already is

 

[thefeatheroom95]

Ill miss you being in the forum, Scott

 

[quinn65]

Medjugorje?

 

[quinn65]

Ah, THAT Medjugorje.

Wonderful thing, the Internet.

 

[redway10]

How unfortunate...

How unfortunate for those billions that have not been granted by almighty God the privilege of birth to Christian parents.

It's pretty obvious that God/Jesus don't think much of the children of Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. Maybe they will be lucky/smart enough to convert to the correct religion before they are condemned to eternal damnation.

Why do so many third world people despise 'us' again?

 

[qjakal]

Straight....and narrow

Just had to post up to tell quinn65 how much I enjoyed his "signature"....it so sad that we'll not have more of that crazed Hitchiker humor in the future..... Q

 

[quinn65]

I have read your entire list of "no charge" quotes, friend, so I'll take that as quite a compliment. Thanks! 🙂

Always on the lookout...

 

[Tickler2001]

Question?

I'm usually not this friendly in these religious posts, because I don't believe in a "higher being" and I feel that organized religion is the biggest crime against humanity in the history of the planet earth.
But I have a question for the christian fanatics to debate:

Suppose you have two people.

One person commits sin after sin all his life and is generally speaking a big asshole. But this person is practising catholic, went to church on a regular basis, confessed his sins, and begged god for forgiveness at the time of judgement...etc

The second guy led a great life. Helped many people and was a well loved and respected person, a real saint so to speak. But didn't believe in a "higher being" of any kind. And even at the so called moment of judgement stood by his beliefs.

Just for a moment lets suppose there was a god, a heaven, and a hell.
According to Scott's beliefs the first guy would go to heaven and the second guy would go to hell. Don't you think this is a little ridiculous? The second guy is 10 times the person the first guy is, but because the first guy believed in god he goes to paradise well the good hearted guy goes to burn in hell?

This god doesn't sound like someone I would want to look up to.
Anyone care to explain this to me?

P.S. don't try to talk me into your believes, it will never happen. I just want someone to explain this scenario to me.

 

[shark]

Let's see if I can help a little.The first person you describe is not actually living a Christian lifestyle.It is a goal that you AVOID sin,not commit them time after time and ask forgiveness.Nobody is perfect,and God knows this.He also knows when He is being jerked around.
As for the 2nd person,this is not hard either.While I do not know chapter and verse,there is a passage in the Bible which says that a nonbeliever who lives such an exemplary life will be noticed by the Lord.
Much of the time,you find that one sect will consider something extremely sinful that another does not.There is also a passage that tells us that differences in "policy",so to speak,are acceptable as long as the people involved worship the Father.If you happen to be an atheist,this should not concern you,as you would not accept that God exists anyway.
With all the different views and interpretations involved,there will always be differing views on sin and living.Nobody down here has any more than belief.Just live life the best you can,and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".This is not solely Christian belief,but a matter of common courtesy.
I hope this has helped explain the scenario a little.

 

[quinn65]

Thank god I'm an atheist

I don't personally believe, but I do have a great deal of respect for Christianity and religion in general. I believe the concept of religion is likely what kept our forebears from killing each other en masse before we ever got off the ground. Given the position it took in the realm of human outlook, however, religion was bound to be usurped by abusers for their own ends, hence the "crimes against humanity" you cite.

But think about it. I'll focus on Christianity here and drastically oversimplify to keep this short. You are born with original sin, so there's no way out of the club. The first rule of the club is you must pledge absolute fealty to the Boss. The other rules of the club are basically to be nice to each other. The reward is everlasting life in paradise (not to mention the belief that those who pass before you will be there waiting.) The penalty is an eternity of unbearable torment, which is apparently sort of akin to being a sorority girl at one of Kuj's events.

That strikes me as an amazingly transparent manipulation to keep people from hurting each other. Not a bad end, but does it justify the means? Not by today's standards, unless you're a philosophically consistent democrat. 😉

And what about the risks? I mean, here's a system without checks and balances, designed to be incomprehensible to the common person, yet intended to be the basis of existence. What con man could resist? And plenty came along, weaving their own brands of intolerance and control into the religious fabric to suit their needs. In fact, enough came along that they pissed each other off, found their goals at odds, and started fighting. The rest, as they say, is history.

But there's something fundamentally good about people that is tied inexorably with religion. That's why most of its institutions today are basically benign enterprises, honestly dedicated to helping people. Are they supported by self-serving bureacracies? Yes. Is it easy to poke holes in their rhetoric? Yes. But still, they're basically all about being nice and helping each other. I don't have much argument with that, I just don't buy into the opening assumptions.

Damn, I'm a little new here, but never expected to find myself in a religious discussion on this board. 🙂 Where's the thread debating capitalist versus collectivist politics?

Pax,
quinn

 

[shark]

If we ever start that thread,we would need many more moderators.

 

[red indian]

I must talk to you scott.......

When I have less time.

 

[Myriads]

Just because I'm feeling playfull

quinn said: You are born with original sin, so there's no way out of the club.

Try this:

Cain and Abel were the 1st decendents of Adam and Eve, both tainted with the original Sin. Cain slew Abel, and was banished for his crimes... He wandered the world and eventully found and joined the 'Other people' who had a rather merry society going already.

Given that the 'Other people' were already there for Cain to meet, they had to decend from some other set of ancestors then Adam and Eve. Thus they are not tainted by origional Sin. And thus they have no need for the sacrifice of Christ.

If one is decended from these folks... and the odds are good, there seemed to be a lot more of them than Adam and Eves line at the time, then you are without original sin also....

🙂 🙂 🙂 Have fun.

Myriads

 

[quinn65]

I love this. Gotta say again, it's a cool board where you show up for an interest in tickling and end up discussing Christian theology!

Myriads, I like your line of thought, and would happily count myself as progeny of those "others" to dodge original sin, but I think St. Augustine had a different idea when he defined his widely-accepted doctrine. Evidence that we're all "infected" with original sin, per mainstream Christian thought, is that we all die. Man's original state was immortality, and it was Adam's ill-fated case of the munchies that removed us from that state and introduced death to the world. Only through accepting Christ as your savior, so goes the story, can you cleanse yourself of this sin and achieve your intended state of immortality in the afterlife.

Augustine found the chief scriptural support for his doctrine in Romans 5:12. In the modern New Revised Standard translation, the verse reads:

"Sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned."

But Augustine's version of this verse contained a mistranslation. Augustine did not read Greek, the original language of the NT, so he used a Latin translation now called the Vulgate. It renders the last half of the verse as "and so death spread to all men, through one man, in whom all men sinned." He concluded that "in whom" referred to Adam and that somehow all people had sinned when Adam did. He made Adam a kind of corporate personality who contained the nature of all future men, which he transmitted through his semen. Augustine wrote, "We all were in that one man...already the seminal nature was there from which we were to be propagated." Thus all of Adam's descendants are both corrupt and condemned because they were present inside of him (as semen) when he sinned. Augustine described sin as something "contracted" and passed through the human race like a venereal disease. Jesus was exempt from original sin since, according to the orthodox, he was conceived without semen. Augustine concluded that as a result of Adam's sin, the entire human race is a "train of evil" headed for the "destruction of the second death." Except, of course, those who manage to access God's grace through the Church.

Like I said, it becomes a neat way of ensuring everyone joins your club, and at the risk of sounding cynical, a handy platform for despising those who don't. I'm honestly not sure how or even whether Christians account for the "others" you mention, but since I don't know any immortal folks, I'm not sure what would have happened to them. Unless . . . could Highlander have been a documentary? Hmm...

Don't ask me to defend this, it's not my point of view. Plus, it's ridiculously easy to poke holes in. I just know it from casual study inspired by years of arguing with some very smart believers.

It always comes down to faith. You either got it or you ain't. Few people, even believers, honetly think that you can't be a good person without it. Then there are the "true" believers who think they just Figured It All Out and are compelled to share. The only upside to these folks' views is that they're fun to debate when you need a little light exercise... 🙂

Pax,
quinn

 

[qjakal]

Too bad...

It's a shame my Dad isn't into tickling (I...think), because he'd have a riot here with this thread! Jehovahs Witnesses used to detour around our house, because he was prepared to give 'em an all day tussle and the devil take the one who quit first...lol. Eventually an elder of the Witnesses came out to do "battle", and Dad now counts him among his best friends, and vice versa. The old man is a corrupting influence though, and the elders wife can't believe the things Dad has gotten him to do...lol. Anyway, (hey...those JW can sock away the beer too, in case any of you didn't know it..be prepared if you have a barbecue!), love the "HighLander" theory quinn!

"There can be only one!! well..for now anyway, perhaps we can negotiate more immortals later!"

Nice theorizing guys....perhaps we should revive the old Religion/Guilt thread?

Q

 

[redway10]

There are no exceptions...

Sorry to burst the bubble of those who would like to believe differently, but the Bible is crystal clear on the matter of faith and salvation.

Mark 16:16 (in the words of Jesus himself): "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned"
(This is in reference to the firm acceptance of the gospel of Jesus Christ as the Lord and Savior of the World).

Plain and simple, if you are a 'Christian' then you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior (in spirit and deed), and you 'know' that non-Christians are going to hell. Period. No exceptions.

Many Christians try to duck this issue by saying that they they don't 'judge' others, but that's a cop-out.

It sounds ugly but it's true: The most important message in the Christian Bible is NOT "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"; rather it is "Join us or be eternally damned".

My 2 cents.

 

[Krokus]

???

Who cares? This is a tickling forum.....I know this is general discussion, but when I read that burn in hell for eternity shit I kinda snapped. I personally think that Scott is THE prime example of a first class hypocrit.....I hate that.....If what we are doing is sooo bad, stay away from here......I will make my own decisions.....Sin and Lust my ass. If christianity is that strict then I feel sorry for you. I hope you have fun at your new forum with all your bible-thumping friends.

 

[qjakal]

Hi Krokus...

Hmmm...how is it we haven't really crossed paths/chatted before? With that # of posts I should have run into ya sooner! Not sure if you took redway10 a bit too seriously, he may have just been stating the "declared intent" more clearly, rather than preaching it as truth, so to speak, but hey, it's your dime too. I try not to get too heated up when someone is obviously working with a narrow mindset, because it defeats the purpose of the forum, which is to engage in a lively discussion with a wide variety of people! Those who come in with "one note" won't be staying long anyway, so I just let time and posts happen and this too shall pass, so to speak....anyway, good to chat more directly with you! Q

 

[omega]

God really is a gentleman

I know that the "Burn in Hell for eternity" language upsets all kinds of people. Maybe with good reason. I look at it this way. If you want to live your life without God and you don't want him to do anything for you, God gives you exactly what you want. He lets you live for all of eternity without him and without any of his help. That could be what the Bible means by Hell. It is being totally away from the presence of God. God doesn't choose that for anyone, people choose it all on their own.

Then there can be the question, "What about people who never hear about Jesus?" Well now, they never had the opportunity to make a choice. How can God leave a person who never had the opportunity to ask him to stay away?

My head hurts now from theological thinking.🙄

 

[quinn65]

You can't paint 'em all with that brush...

My bubble's ok redway, no need to apologize. 🙂

I think it's fair to say that those who take the Bible in complete and literal seriousness are a little outside the mainstream. If you're arguing against (or defending yourself from) Christianity, it's pretty hard to make headway with the Bible-as-literal-truth argument. Most Christians, I've found, are reasonable folk who flavor the religious views they are taught with a little personal preference and comon sense. Human beings -- you gotta love em. 🙂

Now, if you *do* find someone who argues or will stipulate that any part of the Bible is literal truth, let the fun begin. There's a memorable scene from a recent West Wing episode where the President does just that to a talk radio DJ.

Makes me a little sad I joined in here just as that ReturnToGod guy left.

I don't dispute your quote, redway, I'd just suggest a different focus. People generally stop listening when they think you see them as an assumption instead of a unique set of values, even if those values trace to some common beliefs. When we debate Christianity, practically and realistically, we're arguing with people, not books.

Pax,
quinn

p.s. I actually think it would be fun to get a few "bible thumping friends" in here to start kicking stuff around. There *is* a moral element to this fetish that I thought it was great to see debated in this forum once I got here. I hear qjakal saying y'all been there and done that, with some hard feelings to boot, so I won't be starting any threads, but . . . I'll happily participate if the interest's there. There's philosophy in everything, right, so why not explore ours? (Unless you've already done it to death.)

 

[Tickler2001]

First off, in this particular instance I'm not bothered by Redway10's post. I asked a question, he answered it. It would be different if he started his own thread to preach to us.

This was the answer I was looking for. It discredits the whole christian religion and everything that America is supposed to stand for.

In essence this so called god doesn't care if you are a good person or not. He just wants people to worship him, kiss his feet, his ass and give him thanks for everything in their life. 🙄

We will fight to the death for democracy, freedom, and our way of life. Meaning we will not be slaves to the Russians, Chinese, Iraqi's, Osama "I live in a parking lot" Bin Laden, or anyone else. But these same people will without a fight be a willing slave to god?
Worship him, thank him, sacrifice our children for him...etc?
Someone explain the difference to me, because I don't see it!

What has this god ever done for anyone?
You pray for him to save a sick relative, but they die anyway. Reason? Because god needed that person to help in heaven 🙄
What help would he need from a 1 month old baby? Does a baby that dies magically turn into an adult when they get to heaven?
(this is hypothetical, I didn't have a baby die)

I have news for some of you people(I know you are to brainwashed to listen, but I will vent anyway).
god never helped anyone. No one ever got anything because they prayed.
The saying god helps those who helps themselves, that is partly true, because if you don't help yourself there isn't no god there to do it for you.

Someone prove the existence of god to me. What? You can't? What? I should have faith? LOL
Faith is for fools!

The bible is a book of fairytales written by "men". Someone prove to me that there is a god that told them what to write. What? You can't?
I should believe it because some fool said so?

Not Likely!


P.S. I'm not as hostile as my written words come across, I just really feel this strongly that it so ridiculous that this many educated people believe in fairytales.

 

[qjakal]

The hurt....

You've obviously been disappointed and hurt by life at some point, Tickler2001, as have many of us. My twin sister died about 15 years ago, and I know I felt just as you stated...that there could be NO God in existence that would allow such evil, or whose doctrines could ever justify such a deed. I too felt no faith, and that it was all a sucker game perpetuated by con men for their own glory and benefit.

Normally this would be where the writer would then tell you of his miraculous reconversion to a faith, assuming you're reading an article in WatchTower or watching the movie of the week.....can't really say that this is the case, although it would make a nice ending. I grow older and stay unreconciled to any "god/s" that are present in our continuum. My nightly challenge to them to come out and debate/fight on my level goes unanswered still, and although I stay prepared for just such an opportunity, I have accepted the fact that if they exist, they're ducking me....

quinn, feel free to start any thread you like...I merely referred to a loooong one that went previously and was filled with a lot of good discussion. That certainly doesn't preclude having another!! Count on me to join in with nonsensical remarks and semi-witty outdated points! 🙂 Q

 

[asutickler]

*I just really feel this strongly that it so ridiculous that this many educated people believe in fairytales.*


Actually, in considering the nature of the universe, the existence of a supreme being dosen't seem so far fetched. I won't bore y'all with quantum theory and such, but there ARE questions to which there is no seemingly logical/scientific answer. Is the Universe bounded? If so, by what, and what's behind it? If not, then how is infinity quantified? Does time have a beginning? What came before it? Can it end? What IS a quanta (the smallest possible "piece" of matter or energy)? If life formed spontaneously, how did it know that it required self-replication in order to survive? Etc, etc... I would get more in-depth, but I'm trying to keep this short... I'm a big believer in science and human ingenuity, yet I personally feel that there is a limit to what science can resolve, and that one significantly possible solution to this seeming irrationality is the existence of God. Not necessarily the Christian God, mind you, just a supreme being in general. Seems a little odd that it could all just be one big "accident," dosen't it?

Please bear in mind that I'm not trying to convert anyone, as I just hate it when others attempt to convert me. (If you want a list of quick ways to get rid of campus religious/cult recruiters, I know them all ) I'm just attempting to defend my religion of choice against the allegation that it was somehow founded by Mother Goose. 😉


ASUTickler