sessions with Dr. T (mostly tickle talk)

[saratk]

**Note, instead of posting separate threads, I'm going to do all continuations of this particular series on this thread. So stay tuned***


So, I'm thinking of starting a story series that instead of being about actual tickling...being sort of inside the head of someone who has a tickle fetish and explore what a character could possibly be thinking as they are doing what they are doing...via talking about it in therapy and sharing past and current experiences...So for Sessions with Dr. T, that's what it will be. There will be no for sure tickling happening in the story, but there could be. I'll try to say what the story includes before posting...so you can know if you want to follow. Here's the first installment of "Sara" talking through some feelings about tickling in therapy.

So many of my insecurities lie in that a huge part of who I am is something I've kept secret from my "real life" for my entire life. I started therapy for a lot of self esteem issues, and whenever we get to the topic of my interests in tickling I feel really shut down. Dr. Thompson, who is a beautiful woman who seems about as vanilla as they come seems to understand what a tickling fetish is, and the psychology behind it, but I don't think she fully understands the anxiety that comes from this...Whenever I bring it up in session, it's just sort of "out there," and I completely regret saying anything because it's not helping. I told her this a week ago, and how I noticed how censored I feel. She said "Well sometimes when people feel shame about something, it's helpful to talk very directly about it. Maybe we can start that next week. We won't censor, we'll go at your pace, but we'll make sense of it."

The session ended with that, and I had an entire week to think about what we're going to talk about, how it would go, and before I knew it, I was in the waiting room again. My heart beating so fast the movement could be seen through my shirt. I buzzed her to let her know I was there, and sat waiting with incredible mixed feelings of excitement to get it off my chest, and not knowing how it's going to go. Will I regret even telling her about this? The door opens. There she is "Sara?" she says with a smile. "Come on back." I walk down the hallway into her very warm, cozy and inviting office. Sit on the couch and she closes the door and sits in her chair. "So, how's it been going this week?" My anxiety is overwhelming. I feel like a lost child that needs to explode and be hugged and told it's ok. My voice shakes "Well, I know we talked last week about how we're going to talk more directly about my interests..and I'm really nervous about it and don't know where to start." "Ok." Dr. T says calmly. "Well I think we talked about some of your interests, that specifically revolve around tickling?" Her just saying the word elevates my heartbeat even more. "Sometimes when I don't know where to start, I like to start at the beginning. Can you tell me maybe where this all started for you? When did you first realize you liked tickling?"

Here we go. "I remember it being something that has interested me for as long as I can remember. When I was a little kid, I remember being really fascinated by the concept of being tickled. It didn't happen to me very much, and I think I really was interested in it happening...sort of an exciting fear of it. I remember as a toddler thinking shoes were worn to protect your feet from being tickled. I remember being at family parties and wanting my older cousins to tickle me. I was captivated by them and I even think I journalled about it in my first grade journals, talking about how much I enjoyed having a tickle fight. Just thinking about that now makes me horrified that a teacher read that and I didn't have the shame back then, but that it was out there...that just makes me feel so ashamed."

Dr. T, thinks for a second "I don't think If I were that teacher I would think anything of that. The thing that fascinates me about tickling is that it's an involuntary reaction. You are forced to laugh, even if you're not wanting to or not having a good time. Also, it's laughing! I think of it as a pleasurable experience. If people are laughing it's usually a marker of..we're having a good time." Hearing Dr. T talk about tickling without judgement calms me very much. I see her crossed leg gently twirl her ankle and wonder to no end what reactions are possible under those shoes.

"So, in those first experiences you talking about your family. How did that go? Would you say to your cousins, you know "I want to be tickled!" , and what would happen from there?"
"Well, I think I would tell them or show them in some way, but I always felt it was something that they didn't want to do. It wasn't a part of their world to be tickling little kids"
"You understood that even then? That's pretty perceptive."
"Well, even if it was just "they are old, they don't like this" I think I got it, and that might have been how things started to make me feel different."
She starts to share parts of herself, as she said she would. "As you talk about this, I can relate. For some reason we as little kids I think become captivated by older people of the gender that we begin to desire, even if it's a relative. For you, that was women, even at that young age, and even if it was confusing for you, that was your natural reaction. I remember getting very shy around an older cousin's husband. For some reason I was really captivated by him, and people would tease for that. So I know where you're coming from.'

Hearing that from her gives me some even more relief.

I go on..."A lot of my earliest exposures to tickling came from tv. I remember watching cartoons as a kid and seeing things on tv like cartoons, things on pbs kids where tickling happened and being really excited by it."
Dr. T asks "Can you give me an example of one of those shows you watched?"
"Well, one that really sticks out in my mind, and I think it sticks out it a lot of people's minds that are into tickling is in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles there was a scene where April O'Neil gets foot tickled for information...and that would happen a lot in cartoons."
Dr. T smiles "I remember that episode! That's funny. I would notice that happening too, but didn't think anything of it. I can see how it would effect you if that's something that would interest you. Would you talk to anyone about it?"
I remember where I was when the episode was on..."I remember being with a female babysitter and wanting to "play interogation with her" and it ended up with us doing that..and then taking turns laying on the floor with a blanket over us completely except for our bare feet sticking out and the other one sneaking up on then and tickling their feet. That was really exciting for me."
Dr. T empathizes "I bet! You were able to freely have your fun. How great would that be if you could do that now as an adult without self judgement?"
"It would be great...I would really judge myself because as I got older, I'd continue to watch shows like that...made for little kids, because I knew there would be an element of tickling possible, or if I knew a specific episode of something was on , I would get excited to know that episode had tickling in it. Like, the Cosby show where Claire gets a ticklish foot massage, even if I knew that the word was mentioned. I would even stare at the dictionary's definition of tickling to see what it said and what example it gave. Even that excited me. These were the days before internet when you could get excited by less. I would get really judgemental to myself thinking that here I am, as an 18 year old high schooler, I come home from school, and instead of watching MTV, I'm watching Mr. Men because Mr. Tickle is a character, or I'm watching QVC because they are going to demonstrate a foot massager and I wonder if the host is ticklish. I would think something is really wrong with me."

Dr. T again comforts me. "Well, I think everyone has that to a point. Puberty is a really confusing time of exploration and finding out what you like, and there's a lot of secrets. I think what you were feeling was really normal. It looks like we need to wrap up, but I think we got through some really important things today. I hope you feel comfortable talking about this, and we can continue next week. Sound good?"
"Absolutely"

 

[sole]

I like it.... keep going. 🙂

 

[hyped_up]

*waits patiently for next week*

 

[saratk]

Part 2

I find myself in the waiting room again…thinking about everything we talked about last week, and how good it feels to have some relief in that I got some things off my chest and they were met without judgment. Dr. T. calls me back into her room and asks me how things are going. I start talking about some relationships I had with girls in college when I was just starting to be “out” and actually have girlfriends. I talk about my first girlfriend, Erin, who I thought was a dream because her feet were so incredibly ticklish. She pretty much couldn’t handle any foot attention without squirming, wiggling, pulling away, and I remember her saying to me one time when I was playing with her feet “I’m so glad you’re not into feet!” I describe to her that hearing this let me know that I couldn’t share my feelings with her that this was something I actually did enjoy, and instead I just continued doing what I liked, but never addressed what I was getting out of it.
“Wow, that was a pretty strong message of not accepting you, huh?”
“Yeah, it pretty much shot down any chance for me to tell her that I enjoyed it.”
“What do you think prevented you from stopping the behavior of tickling, if you knew that wasn’t accepted from her, or so you believed?”
I smile, “I dunno. I guess it’s just that it was so fun for me, and I was really enjoying it.”
It becomes clear to her “You were able to have your fun, it sounds like.”
“yeah it was.” I’m wanting to share more, but I don’t know where to go with this, so I’ll just sort of spit it out. “Something else that would interest me when I was younger was the concept of adults being tickled or experiencing tickling. It’s not something you see, so when I would see it happen, it really intrigued me.”
This makes sense to her “I can see what you’re saying. There seems to be a misconception that adults just don’t experience that…they don’t even seem to laugh. I can see how that would be interesting to you.”
I go on. “Something else that sort of intrigued me was the concept of an accidental tickle.”
She doesn’t seem to quite understand “Can you elaborate on that? What would be an example of that?”
“Well, basically when someone is being touched, but it’s not suppose to tickle, but they get a ticklish reaction from it.” I’m being purposely vague to see if I can get some sort of feedback from her on this.
She smiles, “When I think of being tickled on accident, I think of someone maybe being taken out of their comfort zone, maybe they are surprised and find themselves in a situation that they can’t quite get out of.”
My heart is pounding as I desperately want to ask her if that’s from personal experience. “I guess I just don’t know about that because I’ve never experienced that.”
She asks, “You’ve never been tickled on accident?” I say no and ask if she’s ever noticed that.
She thinks for a second “Well, when you were talking about accidental tickles, the thing that came to mind was pedicures. Sometimes when people get them if they have very sensitive feet, they can be tickled accidentally.”
I try to get her to admit to something related to that “Is that something you think happens to a lot of people.” She remains vague “I guess it just depends on how sensitive their feet are.”
As we wrap up she gives me an assignment to think of experiences I’ve had where I felt really accepted by partners, when I was vulnerable and it was ok, she basically wants me to think of some good experiences I’ve had to re-train my brain to think of those…we set a time for next week

 

[hyped_up]

Next week came rather quickly. Another intriguing session.

I don't know how the pace of these tales is going to be, but again, I patiently await next weeks session.

 

[YouNeverKnow175]

Thanks for sharing these, Sara! I'm curious...is this mainly fiction, or non-fiction??

 

[saratk]

I put in fiction section, because what I write about is by no means completely non fiction. Some things may be based in truth, some may be completely made up...so it's safe to say it's fiction, and I guess the reader will have the decide if they think certain things are true. But I'm not claiming anything is true per se.

 

[saratk]

I sit down for another session with Dr. T. She welcomes me warmly, tells me it's great to see me, and asks me how things are going. I tell her a little bit of the positive feelings I've been having this week and talking about past experiences is helping. She smiles and seems pleased with the progress.

"There have been some more past experiences with tickling, some that popped up that I hadn't thought about for a while, that sort of connected the dots in how possibly some of my feelings developed. I mentioned before watching tv, watching certain cartoons with tickling. I had a babysitter who exposed me to very adult shows, and one of them was a long haired radio DJ who is now very famous...the panelist for America's Got Talent...well anyway....I was pretty young and in one episode there was a woman on there who wanted him to tickle her. Watching that, it was very different from watching tickling in cartoons."

Her eyes widen and she shows she understands "Oh I bet!"
"It was very...adult."
"Right. And for her, you think it was sexual?|
"Yeah, for sure. I remember feeling really awkward watching it. Almost like watching a movie with your parents, and a sex scene comes on, and suddenly you're all just silent. It was awkward because I was connecting to it."
"That would be awkward! Especially if you're just a kid, watching something you shouldn't be in the first place,and it starts eliciting all these feelings and emotions and tv and movies tend to do...even sometimes sexual ones."
"Right, and if I were to watch normal scenes of affection it might make me feel more normal to like that, but my feelings were confusing."
"Yeah, you had a pretty clear role model of someone who found that to be sexually arousing. Plus there must have been something arousing about it watching something so risque."

I nod and try to move on. I don't know really what to say, so I try to let her know what's been working in hopes we can keep having open, and even more open conversations about tickling.

"It's really helping me get some feedback on some of this stuff. Tickling is not talked about very much in every day life, and it translates to me that it's an off limits topic of conversation, and having it not be off limits in here makes it a little bit more normal."
"I'm glad" She smiles, "So talking about it, getting it out in the open is letting you know it's ok, it's not off limits, and it's helping you? That's great!"
"I use to do this a lot online, talk about tickling with random people, but I haven't had the opportunity lately for that."
"I see. I'm sure when that's the case, the sense of normalcy on the topic sort of goes away, and the off limits feelings sort of solidify."
"Exactly. Also, talking about it behind a screen name is so private. It's important that I'm able to talk about it outloud, get immediate feedback, even if it's just in here for now."

She thinks for a second. "You know, I was thinking, having that positive reaction when you talk about something difficult can be like a massage. Getting a positive, non sexual response from physical touch...that's very comforting. I can see how this can be like that."
The thought of her getting a massage excites me to the point where it's distracting. I really want to make it clear that I want to have her talk about her feelings on it more.
"Right. I'd like to be able to talk about it openly, but it's not happening right now."
"Are you feeling more like you're getting a normalized feeling about tickling when we talk?" I can't lie and say no to that, because I am, and I don't want to discourage her from talking to me...but I feel like I need more. I feel like whenever the topic turns to her thoughts she sort of dodges the question and talks very generally, which makes it more taboo..
"Pretty much...yes. I feel like I'm at least able to get things off my chest and it becomes less scary. I feel like there are so many boxes locked up inside me with no way of letting them out. I'm on a tickling message board where I can talk, but it's not the same. Typing and maybe hearing a response, maybe it being a jerk saying something mean is not the same as saying the words outloud and getting immediate face to face verbal feedback."

She agrees. |Oh absolutely! It's still something you really need? That response? The hope is that someday you don't need the validation, and you just feel solid, but we're still in the stage where the external validation is very important to you, and that's ok."

"Rght. that seems daunting to me right now to be internally confident in talking about tickling. Something that has helped me feel a little more confident in my feelings is I saw some psychologists on youtube talking about how smart people that were into BDSM are....That they are people who are into it are very normal, and very creative and smart. It was sort of empowering to hear really respected people talk so matter of fact about it. I've seen on some talk shows tickling fetishes and similar ones exploited and made to look weird..."
"trying to get the ratings?" She knows exactly what I'm talking about. "Right. and that's not helpful in making me feel normal. It's like getting bad press. Just showing the freaky side of it."

There's a pause where we don't know what to say. At least I don't
"There seems like there were more memories that you wanted to talk about? or maybe revisit?" She asks.

I try to explain another memory I had that has been sort of haunting me. "I remember writing about tickling in my first grade journal and as an adult being like "Oh my God, I wonder what my teacher would have thought of that?" and any experiences where I've tickled people casually wondering if they judged me. I had a memory that I forgot about until this week. It was another babysitter situation. She was a lot older so what happened is probably clearer in her mind, she even now as an adult probably has a very clear memory of what happened. I remember bringing tickling into a lot of the make believe play I would have with her. So as an adult, I now get uncomfortable thinking that her as an adult has this memory of me doing that, and she might think I'm weird."

Dr. T smiles. "What kinds of things would you do?"
I gulp nervously and go on. "If we were watching a show, like a cartoon where someone was being interrogated through tickling, I would want to do that to her."
"Ok, sure!" She says without judgment. Thinks for a second, and smiles "Makes sense!" We both share a laugh. "So you wonder now how as an adult she's made sense of that...Do you or have you babysat?"
"No." I lie because I don't want her to get out of sharing a thought or experience by asking me how I would judge that. But I have read stories...basically tickle fan fiction that revolve around that scenario, so I think maybe others have done it."

She thinks for a moment, as what I'm talking about is foreign to her. "I see. You mean people write stories revolved around scenarios where they tickle a babysitter?"
"Right." I wait for a well thought out response in silence.
She makes a face "Well, it probably happens!" We share another laugh that breaks the ice. She goes on..
"Well, I babysat a little, and being around kids, not a lot stands out in my mind as being bizarre. Kids are so...they're kids!...I don't try to read too much into their behavior, especially if it's make believe. it's the space where kids explore and I don't think about a lot of standards or rules as far as that goes."

I try to explain myself more "I guess since it's me who did it, I'm looking at myself and my actions through my adult eyes. I'll do that a lot."
"But you were just a kid!" She says, and again forces us to share another laugh at the ridiculousness. We're starting to talk more like friends, and it's very comforting. She thinks more and goes on.

"If it were me, I don't know if I would read anything into it. I can't even tell you what stands out in my mind when it comes to my experience around kids...For kids almost EVERYTHING is normal. There's not a lot that's out of bounds for them. I think you're restricting your "kid self". It's not that YOU'RE abnormal, it's that adults put restrictions on you that don't belong. When it comes to play, as long as you're not hurting anyone, who cares right?"

Hearing this from her is a bit of a relief to me.

"I worry that she maybe didn't want to do it. Maybe she was uncomfortable. I just wish I knew how she felt about it all."
She tries to make sense of what I just said "Well, she was in charge! She didn't have to if she didn't want to. It is hard to relive of make sense of memories when you don't have all the information. Especially when you look at it with your judgement. My hunch is that it wasn't something that was too traumatic for her if she didn't do anything about it. You have to realize, she probably wasn't being as critical about he situation as you're being to yourself. You don't seem like you do that to others. Be critical that is. You are more wrapped up in your own stuff to worry about others. That's how we all are. If someone is that critical, you know right when you meet them, and you know to avoid them. My hunch is if she was that critical, you most likely would have avoided doing anything fun with her."

I smile at her easing my mind some more "Part of my judgement looking back when I tickled people is not knowing how frequently it happened to them before I came along. Without knowing that, it's hard to know what they thought of it."
"I think it sounds like you're placing a judgement on infrequency." That's something that I'd never thought of before "Like if it doesn't happen to them often, that they would see it as abnormal, which I don't think is the case."

I nod "That is something I would worry about as I got older, like am I the one person who tickles her a lot, and because of that, am I the weird one to her?"
She tries to ease my mind "Again, my hunch is you're not being scrutinized as much as you do to yourself."
My fears are not totally gone, although she's doing a great job making sense of everything.

"I guess the fear is that if I'm not expecting a judgement from someone, so I didn't protect my feelings, and when it happens, it's super damaging to my ego. That would be a worst case scenario. When I talk to people online finding out about their ticklishness...I would try to gauge their reaction.Do they get tickled often? not at all? is this an odd conversation for them?"

She tries to understand exactly my process. "How would you gauge? you'd just ask?"
"Yeah, I'd just ask various questions about ticklishness, thoughts on it.. It wouldn't make much of a difference what the answer was, I just wanted to know." I try to validate my reasoning for asking about her babysitting experience. "Which is kind of why when I was asking your experience in babysitting I would want to know if that was bizarre behavior or normal..."

"Right." She goes on, "I really didn't pay attention. I really thought everything I saw was pretty normal. Kids are kids! They do what they do!" She pauses and really sounds sympathetic, which warms my heart. " I feel sort of bad for 7 year old Sara. We are sort of sitting here having a conversation about her and wondering if what she did was unusual and maybe the babysitter was uncomfortable...but maybe...." She smiles. "There's something so innocent about 7 year old Sara! I can almost picture her! There's something so great about her that she can feel free, and she can play, and express herself. Wouldn't it be great to just accept her?" I nod, but don't reply. "What do you think of when I say that? I just want to accept that kid and give her a hug and say "you're great, just the way you are?"

I feel all warm and fuzzy inside hearing her say such caring words to me. "Right. That would be great. I don't think she heard that. She got a lot of don't talk about this, don't do that, anytime she was told she was great it didn't feel sincere. Just a lot of "you're weird" being told to her. I do wish that could happen."
"Sorry it didn't." There is a pause. Before leaving I really want more of an opinion on her about tickling. It's awkward that I don't know her personal feelings.

"It's definitely sort of informed my way of thinking. That that was how I thought about the world. I judge a lot of myself based on wondering about other people and how they think about it. It's helpful when I would hear about any kind of feedback on someone's personal feelings on tickling so it would give me sort of a normal marker so to speak on "typical behavior."

She smiles "You were doing your own kind of statistical analysis."
"Definitely." I chuckle. "I wanted some kind of marker on what was normal! I got a lot of varied results and maybe more of them were on the negative side. So that could have also been damaging"
She sympathizes "Not normalizing as much as it should have been, huh?"
"Right." I try again to get her to share more "So it's definitely been helpful here when you shared a thought or an observation how it was not very bizarre. I think hearing a personal opinion even if it's just from one person helps." I might as well have said wink wink. But she continues to talk in generalities as far as I'm concerned.

She thinks for a second "There's something so innocent about tickling and laughing and play, it's so...innocent...I wish it was something that we didn't lose as adults. But I definitely wish it was something we didn't try to put restrictions on."
Is she saying she wishes tickling happened more?
"In what way?" I inquire.
"Well you know, I think that's so often the way. We just say "don't do that, or don't play like that" there are so many things that as we get older we put so many restrictions on. There's something really freeing about 7 year old Sara just..doing her thing. Good for her!" I still feel like she's inserting generalities that can apply to any "fun" activity. What I really want to know is what does. SHE think about it? Does she think about it? She has to have been tickled at some point. What was going through her head?"

"Right.. I think there definitely are restrictions with adults...I'ts hard for me to gauge other than with people I've encountered and tickled" I finally can't beat around the bush anymore, and I just go for it, and hope for the best. ."Do you encounter tickling at all in your life? I mean is it something that as an adult..."

I see her get up and walk to her desk grab her notebook, which means she's wrapping up. She looks down and starts writing as she talks. Seems to be an avoidance.

"It's not something I really look for like you look for, but you're looking to do your analysis of people and when and where it's happening to them, and I just don't think I'm as aware of that..." She's starting to fumble her words, which makes me think she's not comfortable of what I asked, but is being polite.

"I dunno" she continues. " I have a lot of other things on my mind.." What an excuse! ."But I think if I were to start paying attention to that I would notice there was not a lot of openness about tickling as adults, not a lot of...it's not something you see as much, it's not something people are talking about or sharing, which it sounds like that is what keeps that feeling for you going.... That restrictiveness."

At least she knows how I'm feeling. I'm feeling like I'm running into a wall with her that I can't get through. It's my mission that I break away at it.

She continues to write down in her planner, wrapping up the appointment. "That feeling that this is sort of an off limits conversation."

I wait until she's done and look her right in the eye with a disappointed look. "Right. It definitely does feels like an off limits conversation."
"Ok.. this time next week?"
"Great."

I walk out with maybe more anxiety that I felt going in. Everything felt so great, and the look in her eyes when she realized I was trying to get information out of her...I can't try that again next week without knowing for sure that it's ok, and that maybe I read into that too much. Maybe it's nothing. Maybe she was just wrapping up...but I asked her point blank if she has tickling in her life, and she dodged it. I need to know that she's not being vague on purpose. Or is she?...we'll see. I may need a second opinion. I did some research on other therapists, and read a bio that looked very open and encouraging. I set up an appointment with another therapist, Leanna, that appears possibly a little less inhibited. We'll see. I want to stick with Dr. T, but I might need someone I can relax a little bit more with. I'm feeling stressed every time I go in there, because I'm waiting for Dr. T to tell me I've crossed the line. Maybe next week. We'll see.

 

[hyped_up]

And just when I thought it couldn't get any better...

The dynamic has changed a bit. We're seeing another side of Dr. T, there's now going to be another therapist thrown in the mix, and Sara is equally anxious and curious to get Dr. T to open up about the subject. Until next week...

Bravo.

 

[saratk]

I had another session with Dr. T where I brought up the awkward ending, and she basically told me that I didn't make her uncomfortable, she just didn't have anything to share...then she said some other things where words like "boundaries" and "rules" were peppered in there...I got the hint that she's not comfortable going that far with me...at least not yet. I have made progress with her, and hopefully I'll make some more...I decided to go and see if I had more luck talking to a new therapist, Leanna, who from her website seemed more open, more experienced talking about a variety of issues, so I gave it a whirl. I walked in her office, there was a a little waiting area, but it was nice because she schedules her sessions so you're not seeing people come and go. It's very private. It's decorated with intention to make you comfortable. I sit down and the door opens. A very friendly, blonde, pretty woman stands in the door way with a smile. I recognize Leanna from the picture on her website. She looks very much like the mom in a laundry commercial. Pretty, but not intimidating...warm, someone who you think would offer a hug.

"Hello there. Are you Sara?" She says.
I nod, and she says "It's really nice to meet you Sara. I'm Leanna. Come on back."
She shuts the door, and invites me into her cozy office, invites me to sit on the couch and has a very "let's just chat" kind of attitude. Very non clinical. She asks me how I am and makes small talk. She doesn't have anything to write with, and I filled out all the insurance things and paid online before I came in so there was no "housekeeping" things to take care of. We could get right down to business.

"Why don't you tell me what brings you here tonight?"

I let her know I'm seeing another therapist and what we've been talking about and the road block that I'm having...and what I need...just to talk it out, support, no judgement, some thoughts from her...but I still haven't spit out the topic of conversation.

She looks sympathetic and concerned "I'm so sorry you have felt embarrassed and ashamed. You can talk about anything here; it's anonymous, and there is absolutely no judgement. You can talk about whatever you want here. I've dealt with a great deal of personal issues. Anything you want to talk about is fine."

My heart starts racing, and I take a deep breath.
"Ok. I guess what I've been sort of hiding and struggling with is I have an intense fascination for tickling."
She doesn't bat an eye, but smiles "OK. Tell me more about that."

I go on "Basically it's always been there. it started as a little kid. i don't know when or why but its' been on my mind as long as i can remember. First, being fascinated with being tickled and then it transitioning into me wanting to tickle other women also."

Again, no judgement. She seems interested "Do you remember tickling being a pleasant, pleasurable thing for you as a child?"
"I don't remember it happening very much, but I do remember wanting for it to happen.
"Ok" She smiles and nods "Do you remember who tickled you when you were young?"
The memory comes to me "a babysitter is one that i remember"
She smiles with her eyes closed for a second almost as if to say yes of course "And it was fun? enjoyable? Do you remember what else was going on; was she playing with you, doing something fun?"
"There were a couple times. but yes, usually it would be a part of dramatic play of some kind where i would find a way to get tickling in the make believe"
She smiles again, so without judgement, it was like I was talking about ice cream "How old were you, Sara?"
"maybe like 6"
"And do you remember liking this babysitter, having fun with her?"
"very much."
"So it sounds like tickling was part of a very fond memory of someone you liked and had a lot of fun with. What did the tickling feel like for you?"

Her saying the word so much is making my heart flutter. Especially as she sits there with her tan pants, pink blouse and brown mary janes, she crosses her legs and sort of twists her ankle, kicks her foot, and it's definitely drawing my attention to her feet. I wonder if she's moving her feet thinking about what it's like to be tickled.

"I remember kind of a fun fear. Almost like Oh my God this is going to be crazy. but almost like a roller coaster ride...the build up of anticipation of it happening and then it happening."
She perks up as if I just said something so insightful "That sounds like a great description actually of tickling! and how many children would feel about it. Did you enjoy the feeling of how it felt when it was happening?"
"yes. very much."
"Do you remember what it was that you really enjoyed, the feeling, laughing?"
I smile as I relive it "well the hysterical laughter was really exciting and fun and feeling a part of my body feeling so incredibly ticklish was also interesting"
She hangs on to every word, again as if I'm...interesting "It sounds like it was a rush!" she says
My wall is being chipped away slowly as I feel more comfortable "Yeah. totally"

"Did you like it to go on for a long time?"
"yes as long as i could breathe, i did"
She makes the expression like I just stole her thought "I was JUST going to say that I know sometimes tickling, if it goes on for too long, makes it really hard to breathe, doesn't it?. How was that part? Would you have your babysitter stop when you had trouble catching your breath?"
I make sure she has no concern over my treatment from the babysitter "Oh yeah, i'd tell her to stop and she would"

She analyzed what I've talked about so far. "Sounds like overall it was a great, fun childhood experience." Again, she talks about this as if I talked about girl scouts or soft ball.
"it was. it was something i looked forward to." I ease back into the couch.

She tries to connect with me by sharing some thoughts "I know a lot of times when a child is tickled, there is as you said, anticipation, a chase, catching the child, sort of holding onto them while they squirm and squeal."
I let some of my humor out "yes. or if you're hiding in like a closet and they catch you, having no where to run!"
"YES! a lot of excitement, surprise, and fun!"
"definitely" We both smile at each other as we feel talking about this is ok.

"So tell me more about this. What is it that happened as you got older?"

This was a part that was a little harder to talk about "it was something i felt good about and liked and then i started to feel different and so i kinda bottled it up for a very long time. i didn't want anyone to know this is something liked...that i like this and most people don't and that makes me weird..Things I would do make me weird."

"I'm so sorry you felt you were weird. We all have things we like and dislike, everyone is different and unique. Was there an experience you had that made you feel that you were different, and you needed to hide this? Did something negative happen?"

"Well, there came a point where i knew i liked it more than most people and it was something really special to me, so I would be very isolated in it, watch tv shows that i knew might have tickling in them alone, looked online at things, and i guess i noticed when i would tickle people there would be a negative reaction...like i found a lot of people hate it, so it made me feel incompatible and like something i had to not do."

"I'm really sorry you had that experience, and found yourself feeling different. That must have felt lonely and isolating."
I want to make sure she knows this is something I still struggle with "it did. and still does."

"I"m so sorry Sara. You know we all have things about us that are different. It does not mean you are weird, or there is anything wrong with you."
I've heard this so many times. I definitely need more than that "I know. i guess society's view on things sort of informs how i feel inside."

She understands exactly what I mean "That's a tough thing and we all fall victim to that. We have to try hard to rely on our own feelings and thoughts to be happy, and accept ourselves, though I know that is easier said than done. It's a harmless thing that you like having done to you; it's tied to warm childhood memories and it's something you enjoy."

I go on to explain "Well, it's even harder because i'm new in my area and i don't have a lot of friends and family to confide in locally."
She can tell that adds something new to the issue "That IS hard. It's very hard to find and make new friends in a new area. I'm sorry, you must feel lonely sometimes."

"and it's hard because this isn't something I would confide in a normal friend...it's kind of ...random i guess you could say."
She nods "Yes, I can see what you are saying. What have your experiences been as you got older with it? How old are you now if I might ask?"
"31" I answer, "and It's something that I would try to bring up in conversation casually with friends in middle school and high school...I became very curious about other girls and whether or not they were ticklish and what they thought about it..that's when i sort of started to notice for a lot of people the experience is one to avoid"

Every time she apologizes it gets more...sympathetic, almost like why why does this have to happen? "Aw I'm sorry that happened to you...how did people react? Did they say they did not like tickling? Was it that you noticed most people don't enjoy it, as you said?"

"Yeah. a lot of times that's it...that it felt like it's something that most people don't like...also I would get really curious about people that there was no way I could ask..like teachers...I would really want to know if they were ticklish and it kinda bugged me that I'd never know" I laugh at my silly frustrations
:So it sounds like it was something that kind of took up a lot of space in your brain?"
I nod
"Was it on your mind a lot, kind of taking over your thoughts often?"
I nod again.
"How did that affect you as a teen? Did it get in the way of anything?"

It made me feel really different. i think it caused me to be more shy...but didn't distract me to a point where it caused me to get bad grades or not have friends, just that i felt this big thing was a secret i was harboring so, I would often do things in secret. I would Instant Message friends under fake screenames trying to kind of guage their ticklishness and thoughts on it."
She smiles and looks impressed. "Well that was clever! You found a creative way to get what you were looking for in information,.How did that go?"
"sometimes well, other times they would ignore or not answer, but I've had some good conversations with people under a ghost writer so to speak" I chuckle again.

"Can you tell me more about those conversations?"
I start to hope she doesn't feel I'm weird, as now I'm talking about things I do as a responsible adult, and not an innocent child.
"Basically I would come up with a reason to get on topic. like giving a survey, asking about a project and then kind of ask them ticklishness, where they were, etc...and find out about them."
"what would you like to find out about them???"
"where they are ticklish, how much, things like that."
"So the details of how tickling felt to them was important to you, or what you were seeking to find out?"
"exactly. it was. how they'd react, pretty much."

"So how did that make you feel? What sort of enjoyment did it give you?"
"It sort of excited me to think of them in that situation... me tickling them"
"Did you like to think of them tickling you, or you tickling them? Was that more exciting then thinking of being tickled yourself?"
"It became to be, yes." I explain

"What about it appealed to you the most?"
I try to think about what I like about it. "hearing the laughter, having them share that weakness in common with me maybe"
"So you wanted to tickle them to bring them joy and pleasure?"

I suddenly become aware of her analyzing to find out if I'm sadistic. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I want to make it clear, that I'm as into the torture aspects of it.

"Exactly. not to be sadistic or anything."
"That sounds good...there are some people, and I wasn't thinking this about you that use excessive tickling for control; they keep doing it while the other person begs them to stop."
Clearly, I know what she's talking about being in that world.
"Right. i see a lot of those videos...and the torture aspect doesn't really appeal to me."
"Right. Some people can actually employ it as a form of abuse."
I clarify my feelings on it. "I am more into the playfulness, excitement, things like that"
"So it's all related to good feelings." she clarifies

She thinks about where she wants to go next. "Have you been able to find a partner, like a romantic partner, in your adult life that understood that this is something you like?"
"No.. i was always very closeted about it. i'd do it, but not to the point where it became apparent that this is what i liked...I had a good experience with a girl that was a one time thing, but i didn't want to pursue it. but i did feel accepted in that one instance. otherwise felt like it was a problem that i was doing it/"

"It's good that you had at least one experience where you felt accepted; but I am so sorry for you that you have ahd to feel like you needed to hide this. What about in other relationships; did you feel it would be too difficult to bring up?"
"I felt it might be a dealbreaker if they found out i want to do this a lot."

"I feel sad for you that you have had to keep this inside. There are much worse things; tickling is fairly harmless and playful if it isn't being done against someone's will."
"Right, and I would never do that"

"It seems you integrated a lot of shame around it."
I nod. "definitely also, my curiosity of people being ticklish, i did that so secretive. it seems like a taboo subject to bring up to people, and i don't know if that needs to be the case."
"I can get a bit of a picture how you started to feel like you were different for liking this, and how it seems like you learned it wasn't something you felt safe and open to talk about. But in reality, it IS such a harmless and playful thing; I'd like to see you work toward being more accepting of this in yourself, and not feeling it was such a... There are much worse things! I talk to people every day with really disfunctional issues and fetishes.

"Right. I do feel like if I were to ask someone openly about their ticklishness that it would be a "none of your business" kind of question." I'm feeling ready to sort of gauge her feelings on talking about it. She seems like it's no big deal. I want to see if that's true.

She thinks for a second "I guess it would depend on who the person was, if it was a friend, and what exactly you asked. It's not abnormal at all to just ask someone if they are ticklish; I mean I've been asked that throughout my life!"

My heart flutters to hear that. I'm practically sweating at this point in the conversation "has a patient ever asked you?"
"I've worked with a lot of kids, I'm sure they have!" I tell her how I wanted to ask my other therapist, but felt very uncomfortable about it.

She wants to hear me out on this "Well tell me what about asking her appeals to you...tell me more about why you'd like to ask her"

I try to come up with an answer other than I'm dying to know if she and you are ticklish "I think it's similar in that I'm not going to find out as if she were a friend. I am just curious since I'm going to be talking so much about tickling what her feelings are. she's told me general feelings of non judgement, but just curious about personal experiences with it."

This actually seems to make sense to her "So you would feel more comfortable opening up to her if you knew how she personally felt about it? What her experience was with tickling, like if she had some bad feelings about it?"

"possibly. She's said that she views it as a positive thing with laughing, but she's talking about observing children. I guess i'm curious about her personal feelings on it."

"Would that make you feel closer to her, or that she was more in tune with you, or what would it do for you?"
"possibly it would make me feel closer and more like i know my audience." I say. She nods and says it makes sense. "You've come across judgement about it, I can understand you would want to know her feelings about it before you opened up and talked about it a lot."

"Right...but is that crossing a line? I'm trying to find out more about her philosophy of this.
She thinks for a second "Well it depends on exactly what you ask and how. I don't think there is anything wrong with asking her how she feels about it, if it was something she viewed as a positive thing or negative. Why don't you tell me what you're trying to find out. What questions you have".

The nervousness comes back "I basically want to know if she's ticklish. If she's had interesting tickling experiences."
She tries to put together what I said and understand "So you would be trying to find out where she is coming from as far as her personal experiences and thoughts about it? Which would give you a foundation for knowing where she is coming from. And I'm thinking then you would have a bit of a gauge to know how your disclosures might be accepted?"

"right. she has told me she's accepting of people's interests. i guess i'm just more curious about this specifically."
She looks up and thinks honestly for a second "It's hard to know how she would feel; it's not an overly intrusive question. If she is fairly open and laid back, it would probably not bother her. She might understand you are trying to relate to her and that you want to get a feeling for where she stands on this, and how much it is or isn't in line with your own feelings."

Now comes the big question....

"can i practice asking by asking you?" I wait for her to say "get out of my office" or "no, let's move on to a different topic", and the whole thing to be blown...
Without blinking an eye she says "Sure we can role play it, that's fine! Go ahead and start. I'll be her..or me if I were in that situation rather." She smiles and waits. I can't believe it was this easy.

I go into "role play mode" "so, I know you've talked about being accepting of people's interests and that you come at it with an open mind..that really helps knowing that. I guess what helps me open up when talking to people about this is knowing more about their personal feelings, experiences about tickling specifically. I was curious if you could share some things so I know if your feelings at all line up with mine?"

"OK Sara, tell me what you would like me to share? What would you like to ask me?"
I give a slight gulp and try not to move so she doesn't see me shaking as I look her in the eye and ask
"first of all, are you ticklish?" I ask
Without hesitation, she answers "Yes, I am ticklish."
That was almost too easy. I go on "Is there a specific spot that is particularly ticklish?"
She laughs "Yes, there is. I call it my "tickle zone." She touches on her body where she means "It's the two sides of my waist, sort of to the left and right of my stomach. Just on the sides and maybe in a little bit toward my stomach. It's very ticklish."

I smile, as this conversation is a lot more natural than I had anticipated "oh ok. my spot is my feet mostly."
She chimes in "My feet are a little bit ticklish too"
I ask "have you ever had them accidentally tickled?
"Hmmmm... I'm not sure. They are not as ticklish as my waist. Yes I'm sure i have though." I'm believing her answers to be as honest as she can make them without a filter. I talk about being ticklish at the doctor, and she smiles

"That's exactly what I was thinking about myself. That is when I ALWAYS get ticklish. When the doctor pokes and feels around my stomach, I usually warn the doctor "THAT'S MY TICKLE ZONE!" as he approaches my outer waist area because I can't help but jump and squeal as soon as he touches there."

I laugh "that's funny. I haven't had my feet tickled in such a long time. It's kind of sad that you can't tickle yourself."
Again, with the you read my mind look "I was thinking that earlier! You have a love for something that is so innocent, yet you can't do it to yourself! That's such a bummer....most people if they are fascinated with something or really like something, they can do it themselves somehow. It can be awkward to ask for that I'm sure!" she laughs.

We try to brainstorm ways I can get tickled without another person, and she brings up the normal vanilla answers like feather (yea right) and things like that...I don't want to run out of time, so I sort of feed her some good ideas to elaborate on...

"i've never tried those foot massager thingys in the fancy stores." I bait
"Oh those might tickle you. Some of them have the nubs on them" She says this as if it's totally foreign idea to her, and it's adorable
"Oh, you think?" I try to get more from her.
"Yes now I'm thinking about that because I have a foot bath thingy, with little nubs on it and I think it tickles when it vibrates."
Now I'm getting so excited, I'm wondering if my face is turning red "wow. enough to make you laugh?
"Yes! I haven't used it in a long time but I remember thinking I couldn't really keep my feet in there because it tickled so much." she laughs at the silliness of that.

I try to think of more sure fire ways to get a vanilla talking about ticklishness. "wow...I've also never had a pedicure before." (more lies)

"I bet the ones where all the little fishies eat your feet tickle like crazy! Have you ever seen that?" The fact that she knows what that is is so exciting to me. Most people have no clue what I'm talking about when I bring the fish pedicure up, and I feel ridiculous.

"yes! that does look like it would. they don't have them here anymore...but yes, it seems like it gets everyone"
"I've seen people on TV scream and squeal and laugh at that" She's clearly seen the same news coverage as I have. "Is it mostly your feet where you like to be tickled?"
"that's my favorite spot. yes"
"And you haven't found anything that you can rub your foot against that tickles it?" I shake my head no. "There must be something!" She's thinking for a few seconds, and it's driving me crazy that going through the pretty head is ways to get your feet tickled. She's not finding this conversation odd at all. It's really great.

A lightbulb goes off "What about running your feet lightly over grass? That is very ticklish to me. I just thought about it"
"That could work. Usually the light stuff doesn't get me as much, but it's worth a try." She's willing to go back to the drawing board in her head and thinks again! She rattles off a shoe polisher, a handheld massager. It's very exciting to me. I feel like I should stop while I'm ahead...at least for now and bring the focus back to me...

"I remember with the babysitter...I felt strange about this later in life, but I turned the tables on her and tickled her. I asked if we could play make believe and I made the scenerio where I've captured her and I tickled information out of her."

Again, to her, it's like we're talking about tag. "Well, THAT sounds like a fun game. How did it go?"
"I remember really insisting it go my way, so it's not like she had any input from what i remember. I tied her ankles to a chair and we played it and then I tickled her feet a lot."
"hmmm. It sounds like it was very fun. Do you remember how you felt?" she asks
"Oh, I felt great. I was having the time of my life with no judgement, but I wonder how she made sense of that experience..or times I tried it again."

"Do you have reason to think she would have thought it was unusual?" She asks
I shrug "just based on my own insecurities"
"I'm sorry about that. Did you enjoy it because it was fun, was there any part where you enjoyed the feeling of control over her; what stands out for you?"
"I think that was fun because she was the "adult" and i was the kid and that's a fun role reversal"
She laughs "Yes, it is! And for a kid to be tickling an adult is usually pretty hysterically funny to the kid,I don't find that abnormal at all. It sounds like you were just having fun and she was playing along."

"but i don't know if she really did. or what she would have told friends about it later"
She comes up with something pretty insightful. "It sounds like the judgements you have encountered as you got older are making you insecure about the fun you had as a child. here is no way to know for sure, but if she was laughing and playing along there is no reason to think she thought anything was unusual. Kids do like to tickle and be tickled She probably just thought that was one of your favorite games, and nothing more.."
"i guess i have to let it go...sometimes i have similar feelings about things like that that happened as an adult for me, mostly because tickling is not something that happens normally"

"It sounds to me like you are worried about it looking back, based on experiences you had when you were older. Like there has been a lens of shame put on it that really wasn't there when you were a child."

"right i didn't know better. but the lense came on as i got older, but i'd still do the behavior so to speak, but with the shame lense. and so i worry about how I'm judged by my past ticklees"

I want to see how she feels about tickling as an adult, so I come up with a more recent example...

" Something else is I direct plays sometimes...and I was directing one where I really wanted to incorporate tickling because its actually done in that scene quite a bit. but i was afraid to ask for it...and i guess in the future i wonder if that's something i should be afraid of or hesitate based on kind of your gut feeling of if it would be accepted"

She thinks nothing of this "If it fits into the play, I think it is totally fine! I think you have been made to feel so different and as you said, alien about the whole tickling thing, that you are really sensitive and unsure about the whole topic. But if you are directing a play and it fits in and it's appropriate, it's totally fine!"

I describe the scene I'm talking about in Taming of the Shrew where Kate gets her shoes pulled off and tickled as a bit of comedic stage business to get her take on it.

I ask "ok...so put yourself in the shoes of the actress in that scene...would that stress you out?"
She answers honestly "No, I don't see where it would be any different than getting tossed and thrown around hat can't be too fun. Tickling can actually be fun.."

I smile on the inside and outside hearing this "well the tossed and thrown is done in a way that it looks like it's happening but it's very controlled, tickling you can't control, nor would you want to."

Always finding the positive "I think it would be challenging for the actress, but in a good way. Aren't actresses supposed to like to expand their roles, challenge themselves, and do things they haven't done before?"
"true...i just didn't know if knowing that scene was coming would stress you out."
She shakes her head. "Only to someone who had a strong aversion to tickling maybe....but I can't see why it would bother the average person how long does it go on?"
"About 10 seconds." I answer
"Oh that's NOTHING! It would probably be really fun for the actors! What you are describing in the play sounds PERFECTLY okay, and I think it would even be fun." She smiles. All of this conversation is putting me at ease.

I get a little bolder "so you might actually look forward to it happening?"
"Yes, it sounds like it would be a light part of the play where the actors get to let loose a bit and giggle and laugh."
"but how about the actual experience of being tickled?" I inquire.

"For that amount of time, it would probably feel good and be fun, just like how you felt when you were a child and being tickled. If it went on really long, I guess it could get uncomfortable for some people, but I can't imagine it would be for that short amount of time. Tickling feels good to people in small spurts, most people laugh and squeal and enjoy the feeling. It's only like we talked earlier, when it goes on so long that people can't breathe, that it gets uncomfortable. I just think about couples, and how they tickle each other sometimes; I mean especially when I was young like 20's and even early 30's, young couples are always tickling each other. My son and his girlfriend tickled each other a lot when they were cuddling and goofing around, it seems very common to me for young couples especially. It's us old farts you have to worry about. We might pee our pants!" She smiles and realizes we've gone a minute or 2 over and we wrap up. I walk out feeling a lot more secure in this relationship. We'll see what's next for both therapists.

 

[katukutusursuri]

Good story Sara, but I liked your earlier stories featuring you and Ice more, the plots were more intrigue and witty.

 

[hyped_up]

Amazing. The stark contrast between Dr. T and Leanna is great. Now I'm curious to see how Sara takes what she experienced with Leanna and applies it to her next session with Dr. T.

 

[Ty Ckle]

Fantastic. Keep it going!

 

[saratk]

It had been a couple weeks since I'd seen Dr. T. I had been on vacation for a bit, and was excited to cold back. We had been talking about more pressing issues the last time I was there and really wanted to get back on the topic of tickling. I knew I would have to be the one to bring it up. It's never something she specifically asks about. She calls me in from the waiting room. As I walk behind her, my eyes immediately go down to the floor. She's wearing tan colored pants that almost drag, adorable, closed toe high heels pop out of the front, but I can just see the toe. As she sits down and crosses her leg I can see bare feet revealed in the shoe a little more. I can actually see in between her toes a little bit. I start the session after our friendly greetings.

"I want to talk about my tickling interest today. I don't really know where to go with it. I have noticed where I get sort of uncomfortable when if tickling were to happen in a normal context that makes it uncomfortable because I have such strong attachments to it, so I'm trying to not have those feelings."

"Ok. Can you give me an example of that where it might happen in a non sexual context?"

'Well, like if I'm in a room with people who are not sexually linked... like parent and kid, or siblings, and I see tickling going on with them, I'll want to leave the room if it's happening. I get really uncomfortable."

She clarifies to make sure she understands. "If a parent is tickling a child or vice versa, that's an uncomfortable situation for you?"

"Right, or even if it's a couple and it's happening playfully in front of me.. Or if people are talking about the topic in a non sexual way, even though I am starting to gain acceptance of my interests, it's still uncomfortable for me."

She crosses her leg and leans forward. "What happens in those moments?"

"Physically, my heart might start racing, I'll get a lot of the same symptoms of anxiety that you would have with anything. Part of the reason is it's very unexpected. t not talked about very much in every day conversation, so it can come on suddenly."

"You can't really predict the topic coming up. It's not like "this topic is going to be talked about in the work setting or something like that."

"Exactly. So when it does come up, those physical feelings of anxiety creep in."

She thinks for a second. "Do you feel sexually arroused in these situations?"
"No."
This answer seems to surprise her and add a new layer to it. "So, there's a cognative connection to the non sexual things happening in front of you, and sexual arousal you associate with tickling, but there's not a physical reaction of sexual arousal in those moments, just anxiety?"

I nod. "Right. I'll avoid the topic all together. If I see someone talking about something and I can see it might go in that direction, I'll change the subject. Not that it happens often, but I thought I'd mention it because I wish it wouldn't happen."

This seems to make sense to her, and she sees it as something that is very doable. "I think having the anxiety is less of a problem to tackle than if you were having the sexual arousal happening. With just the anxiety it tells me there's something cerebral happening, that you've created some sort of mental connection that causes some anxiety. Do you have a sense of what that is?"

That's a hard question for me to answer, but I do my best. "Well, there's anxiety and there's just a sense of uncomfortableness. I think that's because for most, it's not a taboo subject to talk about. Most people aren't going to be careful or have boundaries when they talk about it, or as strong of a filter, so the unpredictability of what might come out of someone's mouth...what they might ask sort of makes me nervous."

"Well you talk about it being an unpredictable subject and you are worried of where the conversation might go...what specifically are you worried about?"

"Part of it is just if I were asked questions or engaged that I would come off anxious."

"What kinds of questions are you thinking about?"

It's really hard for me to spit out what would scare me, but I try.

Just like "what do you think about that?" or "have you heard about that?" "have you ever done that?". All of the questions relating to tickling experiences someone may have had. I think if I were to come off anxious and not like I were just talking about anything else that's not weird for me, that might be a red flag, like "Why is she acting so weird around this topic?"

"Is that how the conversation goes, or has it in the past, where people will ask questions about tickling?"

"I can't think of a time where it has, but more that I've been in a stiuation where people are talking about it and more people would chime in, and I'll just be quiet. I have had recently where my friends are talking about sex and they ask my opinion on something, so I could see with it just being an experience, I could see the same thing arise."

"So one of your worries is how you'd be perceived. If they are having a non sexual conversation about tickling, and you are just sitting there, you wonder what they will think based on your behavior."

"Right. Or I've had it where I've been sitting there and like, a tickle fight between two people will happen, and I don't know how a normal person would react that has no connection to this would they be doing, would they be laughing, would they be ignoring it? I'm just self concious about my own reactions to witnessing it."

She looks at me with empathy, as if this is something that shouldn't be a burden. "There's a hypersensitivity to judgement there, I don't know what the normal reaction is either. I think it kind of depends on the person and the context. If I found myself in a situation like that, I'm not sure I would notice if someone else was weirded out by it. I think the action of tickling is sometimes sort of a flirty thing if it's a couple, and sometimes people have different reactions to that too. Sometimes they might be like "get a room" if they have sort of an anti PDA kind of attitude." We both share a laugh. "I think there's a variety of ways you could react in a situation like that and I don't think any of them would be considered abnormal. That's my opinion, although I know that doesn't change your anxiety behind it."

I've also had it where 2 of my friends are sitting there, and one will start tickling the other, and the one being tickled is like "help! participate!" Trying to get me to tickle the tickler to save her, and I'll get so uncomfortable and try to find a reason to get out of the room. It's just not a good feeling to have that be such a big thing that's weighing on me."

"The other part that I hear here, is there is a sense of feeling "different than" like you are the only person the might have a topic or situation that is anxiety producing."

"I think that it's not that I'm the only one, but my topic is less common. If someone talked about sex, religion, politics, I would find natural that someone would not want to talk about that, but I feel mine is so random that it would not be expected that it would bring anxiety."

"Does it feel less legitimate?"

"Yeah. It seems silly to have anxiety over that. I judge myself for even bringing it up sometimes in here, and ask myself "Is this really a huge issue?"

"Well, it's an issue for you." Hearing that put me at ease that it's still ok to talk about this. "The way it produces anxiety may not make rational sense to everyone else, but there are sometimes I have an emotion and I can't pinpoint why I'm feeling that way. It's normal for that to happen."

"Right. It's not a good feeling when the topic comes up and I just don't want to be there, I'd like to disapear. I've experienced that at work when girls are talking about screaming and laughing during pedicures, scared they would ask me something about it. And I've avoided that kind of play with kids like nieces and nephews. and not for s reasons but just that it's uncomfortable. I flat out avoid it. Even if I can sometimes tell that's what they want to do. It can feel limiting if something is normal and ok and I'm stopping myself from doing it."

"It seems like limiting is a good word for it. I think there are a couple of options to go about it, one is to say "this is something that has a totally different meaning to me. It's not as though I have a phobia of riding in a car that would disable me in life. It's something that I could probably avoid pretty easily. It's not something I can all-together avoid, but it's something that will come up from time to time and I'll have to deal with. versus: This is something I'd like to change. The levels of anxiety are something I'd like to lower or even illimate them around this topic. A third option is knowing I have different feelings about this topic. I'd like to feel more comfortable and I'd like to be able to decide when I engage or don't engage."

I think the first option is just doing nothing, and that's not good. The second sounds a bit extreme, and the third feels most right.

"Yeah, the third option sounds the most right for what I'm looking for. Obviously I'm not going to pretend as if I don't have different feelings around tickling, but at the same time I don't like the idea of the thought of going through life with it creating anxiety. I'd like to find ways to make it less so it's not so uncomfortable. I've found even if people are talking about tickling and then and we've moved on to something else, the feelings of anxiety don't go away. So I'm trying to figure out how to make that not happen."

"Well, I have a couple of thoughts. I know you've had anxiety before around other topics and circumstances and we've found ways of reducing it, for example regulating your breath..when you notice your heart start pounding to take deeper, slower breaths can help. A lot of times when you regulate what your body is doing the thoughts that are producing the anxiety will go away and vice versa. If you change the channel in your brain, often your body will not feel those feelings anymore. Also a lot of times we don't notice the physical feelings of anxiety until they are at about a 6. If there was a way you could be more hyper aware of your body and start to manage that when it's less, it could prevent it from getting out of control."

I know she's trying to help, but I worry that her telling me to practice my breathing and things like that might be ways of avoiding delving into more conversations all together. That's not what I want at all.

"That makes sense. I'll just have to see. I guess it's not as if I were afraid of driving I could practice every day. The lack of ability to practice talking about it makes me a bit uneasy. I have no control over those conversations or things starting or not." I'm hoping this sparks an idea.

"Right." She says. "Unless you're the one initiating them. You are right! On one hand the driving example is a good one because being afraid of that is something that interferes more often, but it's something you could practice as much as you want. With this, it's harder to gain momentum."

I elaborate on how I really do need practice talking about this.

"I've thought about that how I don't have the opportunity like practicing driving of exposure to train myself to say "it's ok" in these situations"

"What about as we're talking about it?" Being put on the spot gives me butterflies immediately. "I know this is a little bit different, the stakes are lower, but we're still talking about it. How is it making you feel? Is there anxiety around talking about it here?"

I think for a second, and realize, no it's not that scary because we're talking about fear not the actual topic. I have complete control of it all.

"Right now, not so much, because we're kind of talking about the fear and everything around it. I think if we were to have a more real conversation about Tickling, and I was really on the spot it would make me nervous, but maybe the more we did that, I would feel less nervous."

"Maybe that's something to consider." The thought of what that might look like gives me mixed feelings running through my body of excitement of feeling more comfortable, fear of what it might look like and so many others that rush through me in one second...my voice starts to tremble a bit.

"Ok! That would be helpful. Just as you mentioned it, the thought of the topic coming up with us does make me nervous, but what you're talking about could be helpful."

She reassures me that she's not forcing anything. "Well, I would leave that up to you because as you said, there's this anxious feeling about it. So I'm definately not suggesting you go and at every dinner party you have you make sure you bring up the topic and really do expose yourself to this topic to work this out because part of what you're talking about is trying to avoid negative impact on your social life. That might not be comfortable or effective. But in this context..." She shrugs as if there's nothing to lose.

"Exactly."

"There's not the same stakes you have." She read my mind.

"That would probably actually be more helpful, but I wouldn't really know where to start." I know time is running out, but of course I want it to start right away, but know deep down, she's not going to have a lot to bring up, and will need my help with that.

"It's something we can do down the line, even next week. I'll put that in your hands because by giving you that power, that could be helpful and good for you as oppose to what your talking about where you have no control, and someone else is bringing it up..."

I really want to have it where I'm not just feeding her what to talk about because that's not going to be helpful. But this is a good start...

"I think about when I'm kind of on the spot here to talk about experiences, and my past and things like that, I have the power to talk about what I want to talk about and I can keep myself in my comfort zone. If there's something I think of but don't want to talk about because it would make me nervous, I can choose not to. It would probably be better if it wasn't that way. Does that make sense?" She nods "So actually something more challenging maybe?"

She looks impressed by what she appears to perceive as bravery. "Ok! so I'll run this by you...if part of what you're nervous about is being pulled into a conversation about t maybe think over the next week what are some questions that might be posed to you, what are some things that might be said to you that might cause you some anxiety, and we can practice roleplaying dealing with that, maybe practice relaxing through them, maybe even deciding how to respond. If that would make you more comfortable...that's fine. The caveat I would add to that is.." As she says this my heart sinks thinking she's going to say something to the effect of boundaries and what she won't say or do, or that we have to keep it all focused on me not her, but I'm wrong to my pleasant surprise. She continues "practicing and roleplaying is a really good technique to reduce anxiety, but it's ok for you to have different feelings about it." She told me it's ok what I'm feeling and she doesn't want that to change. That's a great thing to be told.

I smile. "No, I understand that. I think some of the earlier conversations we had about acceptance were helpful, so I'm not looking at this to change all of my feelings, I'm just trying to reduce anxiety around the topic."

"Right. because the thing we talked about a few minutes ago is that there is that core part of the anxiety, and then comes the fear and anticipation. I imagine there is that spark of anxiety and then it tends to snowball into "are people looking at me" and other thoughts like that that tend to magnify it."

"That's exactly right."

"We'll also practice just getting to the core of the anxiety. The anxiety doesn't get any more power. It just gets that spark. We don't want to pour gas on it or blow it out of proportion or imagining that this means something important about you and your relationships. Does that make sense?"

"Yeah." We share a smile, wrap up and my heart pounds at what questions to ask her to ask me. I am nervous and excited about what next week might bring.

 

[hyped_up]

Sara, you're back and you haven't missed a beat.

And things have yet again, taken another turn for the interesting. I can't wait to see what happens next session, as well as more about Leanna.

Great stuff.

 

[saratk]

Leanna was out of town for a week, so I didn't get a chance to meet with her, but had another session with Dr. T. I was distracted all day knowing that we were going to "Roleplay" talking about tickling. I had no clue how it would go. I got so distracted that on the way to therapy after work I missed my exit, not once, not twice, but three times. As in I missed the exit I needed. Then I got off at the next one, and missed another turn, then I passed the building. I was so distracted. Butterflies were flapping all throughout my torso. I got there about a minute late. I was scared I would miss out on a significant amount of time, but for me, maybe it was better that I walked right in and didn't have to wait in the waiting room shaking...She welcomed me in and got down to business.

We talked about a few other things and then I brought up wanting to try the role playing. She asked me what I had in mind. What scenerios would work best. I pulled out a sheet of paper that I prepared beforehand, just in case I totally froze. I started reading and telling her ideas, trying not to show her that my hands were shaking "Well, I know I've been in this situation when people are telling stories about tickling and then ask me and other people opinions and things like that."
She doesn't seem to have any ideas that come to mind. "Ca you think of a good jumping off point that seems realistic to you?" she asks
I respond, "Well, like people talking about childhood experiences, you mentioned before noticing people get ticklish with pedicures, which I have had people talk about. That could be a good one, because people tend to just talk without censoring themselves, and it could be a realistic example."

She thinks for a second "Ok, so let's say I'm a friend of yours and I were to say something like Oh, you know so and so and I are going to get pedicures, and every time we go, she's SO ticklish, it's such a process. Would you go get your feet done? I wonder if YOU'RE ticklish too. What would that be like for you?" she pauses "What feelings come up from that conversation?

Honestly, I was just listening to her set up the roleplay, I didn't think it was starting. She wasn't convincing as actually saying these things, so I let her know. "OH, I wasn't really in it yet. Sorry." We both kind of laugh and she giggles saying "This is tricky. I"m not an actor....Ok so what other scenerios did you have in mind?"

I tell her about the story I told her where I interrogated my babysitter with tickling, and it would be really kind of scary if I encountered her as an adult and she brought it up. She tries to think of another scenerio, and I let her know we can do the pedicure one again, but maybe we should have it start as a normal conversation, and she jumps into it so it's more natural. I let her know I"m going to try to react normally and how I'd like to rather than just avoiding, and try not to be anxious...

We pause and kind of stare at each other, not sure how to start it. I start "So, did you have a good weekend?" She nods "I did. My friend and I got pedicures. She's really frustrating for the beauticians because her feet are really ticklish, and she's always splashing around and won't sit still when they are doing her toes, so it's always kind of a mess."

When she says this, by the way she's telling the story I get the sense that she actually doesn't have a lot of experience with this, or she's purposely making it seem that way.
I reply "Ha! oh that's really funny. Is it frustrating for you? kind of embarrassing to be around?"
She thinks, and frustrating is not the right word "Well, it's something that I know she can't control. I think everyone has certain things that they get ticklish with."
I feel like I'm acting pretty natural through this "Yeah, I hadn't really known about that. Is it something where you can be pretty calm and collected during it? You're able to chill?
She nods "yup. yup. Yeah...my feet aren't ticklish"
She's either lying so I don't know she's ticklish or she's not either way, she's not going to admit to it. At least not now.
There's a pause, and I don't know what to say next. She seems satisfied with that interaction "So I think that was fine! Everything about that seemed natural to me, how about you?" I'm really feeling it was maybe too easy and I wish she would have probed more.
"Well, I felt a bit anxious, but mostly just on what to say, what would feel natural. But also, I knew it was coming, so it was easier."
"As you look at that, does that conversation look like it was atypical?"
"I think it would depend on who it was. I've had people talk about pedicures in general, and sometimes I worry it's going to go there, and it doesn't. II'll be kind of minimal in my responses, so it goes somewhere else."

She nods in agreement "And you sort of did that there! I threw at you that it's not like she can help it, people have different spots where they are ticklish, and you could have taken that a different direction or the other option was what you did, and you said that it was kind of normal. It seemed very natural to me."
"Right, maybe it was more natural because it wasn't about me." Which I think is a perfect segue into another scenerio.
She continues to review what just went on "Yes, you kind of headed it off at the pass. My next thing I was going to say was everyone has things that are ticklish, and depending on what you said I would say "what about you?" but the way you steered the conversation away, it wouldn't have been natural for me to do that. I imagine you do that naturally all the time."
That sounds like me. "Yeah I probably do."
She goes on. "it just seemed natural the way you naturally steered it. it didn't seem awkward. iIt's not a bad thing that you do that. You may think you are being obviously avoiding, but that's not how it came across. so it's probably natural looking for other people."

I nod in agreement and bring up the second example...the babysitter example, which would involve me more...we start.

"Sara! it's so good to see you haven't seen you in so long!"
I smile politely. "yeah! it's good to see you too! how are you?!
She smiles "Good! Good. I was thinking about you the other day. I was talking with your parents about when you were little and I use to babysit you. It was so funny when I was over there, because you were such a funny little girl i remember you really liked tickling you were really captivated by it."
I give a fake look like I don't remember that. "Oh really? I don't remember that. It was a long time ago."
|Is that something you are still super captivated with? tickling people?" She says with a smile.
I shake my head "No i don't think so." I try to make the point in a playful way that I 'm now an adult, and she just asked a silly question "I don't think any more than anyone else. Are you still captivated by it?" I'm hoping this prompts her to keep going, but she laughs and ends the conversation. "End of conversation!" she says with a smile and a look like I succeeded. "End of awkward spot?" She checks in

"I guess. My fear would be that she would keep talking about it. So that was pretty easy for me."
She thinks about that for a second "Well, maybe someone with poor social skills" she jokes, "but I think you ended it pretty well!"

I think what she doesn't realize is so many people have poor social skills. I had a lady come up to me and rub my stomach asking if I was pregnant yesterday...I run into people with poor social skills all the time. It felt good that deflecting was an effective way to avoid an awkward conversation, but I don't think it will work all the time. As we wrap up, we discuss some other things and I talk about something that is tricky could be telling a partner why I'm tickling them, and she says maybe we can discuss that next week. I'm not sure if she would roleplay that, but just talking about it could be effective. I feel really good about my conversations with her. I feel even closer to her...almost like I can open up to her like a friend and still keep it professional, while before I really looked at her like a Doctor. Maybe we'll get to the point where Leanna and I are, maybe that's just more natural for Leanna. I think it would be nice if she would just be more honest about her feelings about tickling in general with HER experiences in mind...but for some reason when we talk about it, she pretends like she doesn't know what tickling is as far as it relates to her life...I'm sure there's a reason...until next time...

 

[hyped_up]

Aha. So the role playing didn't go exactly like Sara imagined. And now it seems like her driving focus is to get Dr. T to share her personal thoughts on tickling. Maybe as she becomes more comfortable with Dr. T, it might just happen.

I also can't wait to read how Leanna reacts to all of these recent developments.

 

[saratk]

I called Leanna just to basically let her know how my session with Dr. T went. She said she was proud of me for going through with it, and wishes it could have gone more the way I wanted to. We discussed what the focus of our next session should be...Should we try to roleplay, should we talk about past experiences. I let her know I'm really comfortable with her, maybe it would help to bring someone else into the appointment that I haven't met with and try to start from there. She said that she has a colleague, Andrea, who is also a Social Worker in the practice that she could ask. The point would be to be more open with Andrea, Leanna would let Andrea know to be more "Real", and Andrea could kind of lead the session. This way, it's all planned out. I think this sounds like a great idea, and the next day I head to my appointment.

I walk in and Leanna leads me to her room where Andrea is sitting. Andrea is a gorgeous blonde, who is probably in her late 30's. She's sitting at a chair with her legs crossed reading the notes Andrea took from our last sessions to get up to speed. Andrea looks so attractive it's a bit intimidating. She looks almost like the type that has had life go so easy, that it would be hard for her to empathize with someone who has difficulty, but she is a therapist. She has to have a good heart and be helpful. I have to trust this is going to work out well. She runs her hand through her long blonde hair, bites her pen as she finishes reading as I chat with Leanna for a second, takes her glasses off, and gives me a warm hello. She is dressed very professionally. Grey suit, purple shirt, nude nylons, grey suede heels. She stands up and we exchange handshakes and sit down.

"Now, we all discussed what this appointment is about, and Andrea is brought up to speed, and knows her role. She's going to take the lead. I'll be here if you need me, but go ahead and open up, and feel free to ask questions, discuss what you need to discuss ok?" says Leanna, as she takes an extra seat at her desk.

"Ok. That all sounds good." I reply, as I take a calming breath and make eye contact with Andrea.
"So I'm sure your brought up to speed with stories I've shared in here, and what I'm going through?" She nods and smiles
"I'm trying to connect more with my other therapist and get some direct feedback on tickling from her, but it's hard. I'm hoping I can get that from you to sort of practice that, and maybe in the process, start feeling better."

Andrea seems to totally get it, which is a relief. "Sure, you want to feel that connection with her. I completely understand. Tickling can be something between friends. Or, it can be an erotic game between lovers. There are many ways you can look at tickling. Certainly, one can become closer if a lover is tickling the other....." "Right." I say, as I smile at Leanna, sort of thanking her for this "Exactly." She goes on.

"If you want her to tell you a story so that you can feel that comraderie, just ask her. Tell her you would feel more comfortable if you knew she had a story about tickling to share." hmm much easier said then done. I give her some more background information.

"right. a lot of times she will use examples of other people when talking about things. I think, so i don't know too much about her. I get it...but it would help if she could kind of not do that for this a little bit."

"You need to tell her that directly then." Andrea says, well...directly. "Therapists are all different. Some tell very little, if any, of their personal stories. Others, like myself, use stories all the time if I think they will be helpful. It really depends on the individual therapist in how she talks to her clients."

Well, she said she uses stories. So I feel this is an invite to do what I need to do if nothing before was.

"ok...can i practice that with you, i say what i would say and you respond?"
"Of course you can!" she says, as we take a moment to think and get into "role play mode"
"So, it would hlep me to hear something personal regarding this to build comraderie, and closeness on this issue, can you give me a story or something of maybe...a time you were tickled...on accident or something like that" I say looking her right in the eye.

She smiles. "Let me think a minute.....I can tell you that my brother tickled me incessantly as a child when I bothered him as he was 4 years older than me, and when he would catch me, he would tickle me because he knew I was so ticklish.....as I got older, I believe I was still just as ticklish and really didn't like to be tickled because it would remind me of my brother's incessant tickling.:

That's good. She's at least using personal experiences. It's never fun to hear negative things about tickling, but it's a start.

"So, now, I tickle my husband -just a poke to the ribs....to get a reaction from him because it's terribly funny to see a 6'6" man crumble from a little tickle." Ew let's get off the topic of a big guy getting tickled...but hearing her perspective as a ler is a little hot.

"have you been in a situation where you were like "oh no, this is going to tickle. i don't want to show it.." but you can't help it...like someone not doing it on purpose?" I ask

She thinks again for a second...really thinks "Hmmmm.....I'm thinking. get tickled quite easily, so sometimes I start to get tickled when I think about a sensation on my skin. So, yes, if I concentrate on the feeling on my skin, I can get very ticklish spontaneously."

I'm really interested in whether or not she's ticklish on those gorgeous feet, so I go there however I can.

"I've heard people describe that during pedicures and massages at times" I prompt
Her eyes widen and she laughs "Oh, goodness, yes. A pedicure is like torture to not kick the person giving the pedicure. Sometimes I laugh. Massages only tickle on certain areas."
"so you think pedicures are pretty intense for tickling?" I ask
This conversation is flowing so easily. Although my insides are exploding with excitement and nerves, it feels ok.

"That would depend on the sensation of your own feet. My feet are very ticklish, so it is almost tortuous to sit through the scraping part that is so ticklish for me." I imagine this as she describes it. What I wouldn't give to see her in that position.

"when i was in middle school and high school i had to wear nylons a lot for dance etc... i noticed my feet jumped a few levels of ticklishness with them on"
She laughs again. "Oh, yes, I bet they did. I can understand that. Your feet are so much smoother and the sensation of the fabric makes that so."

I was really nervous that she was going to not have a clue what I was talking about, or pretend she didn't. It's a relief to be able to really talk about this.

"no one ever talks about that so i always thought i was the only one that noticed it" I joke
"Huh! Really? That would make my feet more ticklish too! I think putting nylons on the arms would probably do the same thing." It's kind of exciting to hear her think about how to make different parts more ticklish.

I get her to tell me about experiences when she noticed that.

"With tickling, it usually doesn't last very long because it's unbearable the sensation to me.....so, probably I was tickled and tried very fiercely to get away as fast as possible. The sensation of tickling is very great. have overactive nerves as well, so this probably intensifies tickling because it does have to do with nerve endings. I have fibromyalgia, which is basically overactive nerves, so tickling sensations are more in me than they would be in others who don't have this. This is why the tickling is possibly harder for me to handle. This is also why it's hard to sit still in a pedicure chair. I usually just laugh it off and tell her I'm very ticklish."

"when you had the nylon on, was it something that you actually noticed in the moment?" I asked
"Yes, I noticed that I was extraordinarily ticklish in that moment."
"How many more on the scale did you thinhk you jumjped if ticklishness is a 1-10 scale 10 most?"
Hmmmm.....the ticklish scale.....hmmm.....probably from a 5 to a 7 or 9, I would say" she answered She then asks me if the same thing happens to me. I'm sure she's trying to bring the focus back to me.

"yeah, when I was a dancer wearing them, I had to switch shoes quickly and i was fumbling with my feet and totally noticed the feeling" I say, which isn't actually true for me, but something I've heard someone say once, and thought it would be a good addition to the conversation.
"Sure, you noticed as you slipped your shoes on.....would it be more difficult for you if someone else was putting on your shoes for you?" You want to be that person? I ask in my head. "I would get super giggly for sure." She laughs as we realize time is up for this week. She tells me it was great talking with me. Leanna tells me that Andrea can be scheduled more if that's what is helping me. I say that would be great. That was one of the most exciting conversations I've had in a very long time.

I saw Dr. T the next day, and for most of the session, we were talking about other areas of my life, where maybe she felt more comfortable asking, and probably also things that she found more important. I always find it hard to bring up tickling with her, because it always comes out of nowhere. I tie in my discomfort of talking about tickling to talking about other things I'm sort of embarrassed about and not fully "out" about, like artistic interests, things like that. She makes sense of what I'm telling her.

"So , with the interest in tickling you've been trying to accept it, but there's a big part where you're not open about it. This seems to also be true in other areas of your life. There's a lack of expression and being 100% out, so to speak."
I'm glad we're starting to talk about it again.
I explain, "It can be easier with other things about myself because I can share it with people on some level, They know it about me. I have my outlets to share that are appropriate."
"Ok", she says "so there's that, now switching gears to the tickling.." Whenever she says the word, I get a little jolt inside, she continues "You don't have the outlet or a way of talking about it that seems natural. There's choices you make in both areas to restrict yourself, but I think there's this idea, especially with the tickling whether or not it's socially acceptable, that's not congruant with you accepting yourself. You accepting yourself is also met with a possibility of lack of acceptance."

"That's totally true." Even if we don't get into the fun tickle topics, These sessions with her are very helpful. I think I'm still at a point where I see her hesitation, and that's part of what's stopping me from totally going there with her. I'm hoping that I become more brave with her in the weeks to come. "I'm totally understanding that I can't change the world, and I am not going to change how people think. I know I need to work around that."

"Ok." she says "Are you able to see it that way? That you're not hiding because there is something wrong with you, but rather it's their problem?"
"In part, yes." I explain "But I can also see why I'm different. I see what they would judge. So it isn't as though I'm thinking I'm normal what's wrong with them. Sometimes I look at my thoughts and actions and say to myself What is wrong with YOU?"
She seems intrigued and concerned for me with this thought "What are the thoughts with that?"

It takes me a second, because it becomes clear in my head but hard to say "If I can't be accepted, there is a reason for it. If everyone doesn't get it. There IS something wrong with me."
She gives that look, not like I just blew her mind, but that I said something pretty profoundly moving, that she hadn't considered.
"This sort of reminds me of prejudice. Like other groups that are judged as something wrong with them. We can look historically about people that were not accepted, and there's a learning curve in our culture. We know now that was wrong. I don't know if we're on that road with this. I think and hope we are, but I can see that parallel. There's got to be something wrong with you if you're not accepted. That's a hard pill to swallow."

"Yeah, but it gets to a point where I look at myself from the outside and say "I would judge me for this. I get it."
"What's your experience talking about it here?" She asks, as she often does. "I've tried to communicate that it's maybe different that some people that you know, but I try to make sure you realize that it doesn't mean you're a deviant or anything is wrong with you....How do you hear that when I say that to you?"
I smile a little bit. I want her to know she IS helping me. "It helps. It helps me move along the acceptance scale, so to speak. I'd like to get further along...but it helps."
"It's interesting how you can soak that in from me, but you don't accept yourself and support yourself the same way."
"Well..." I pause, thinking of all the silly, crazy, embarrassing, shameful things I've done, said, looked at all for the sake of my pleasure "I know myself. I know the whole story."
"So, part of why I can accept you without judgement is there are parts that I'm not fully aware of?"
"Yes Probably." "What keeps you from sharing those things?" she asks
I think of all the times that I've shared and things have been sort of brushed over, or I haven't gotten a lot of feedback "I don't think I'm not sharing them, I just don't think they come up. I don't want to make this the topic and focus on everything every time. I feel weird bringing it up. I don't know why. It's random. It can appear to be not the biggest problem, but it's a problem I want to work through."

She thinks, and smiles reassuringly "Well, I can understand that. Well there's parts that it sounds like are still in the dark. Even if it's not the most pressing thing day to day, it might be the impedement to complete acceptance. I think there's a couple different ways you can get unconditional acceptance, one is getting unconditional acceptance from others"

"which is impossible" I comment
She doesn't seem to like th word impossible, but basically. "well it's really hard to do if you are keeping so much in the dark. If I know 90% of everything, and you are keeping 10% hidden still, that still feels like the acceptance I have is conditional. The other way to get there is to fully accept the 100% of you. The hope is even if you don't share everything with everyone, you can kind of imagine that they would accept it all."

This sounds like a possible dodge. I hope that's not the case, and she's just giving me an option not to have to talk about it if I don't want to.
"yeah, that is a little harder to do for me, i do feel a lot better when I talk about things. It felt like getting something off my chest. I've come along way. I couldn't spit out the words at all a few years ago.... I've come along way, I just want to go further."

She finds a reason to celebrate the progress made. "Not to say it's great that you were stuck, but it's great to hear the progress that you've made! You know your own pace. It's important you feel comfortable so you can uncover, discover, things at your own pace. There are times when someone is over zealous and wants to get everything out, and it doesn't have the healing properties. Hopefully in the future you're able to have those good experiences again in here."

I understand what she's saying. It's not always about getting the most info out and the most info from her to make it work. "Right, there's a lot to uncover, and while I don't feel like i need to share everything. I'm not in confession or something like that talking to a priest, I guess I don't know how to talk about it without being too random"

"You can be as random as you want!" Comforting, but this is coming from the person who looks a big confused when it comes up in our sessions...but I'll trust her on that.
"Right, but I'd like it to be natural, and not have you question why we're talking about this again."

I can tell we're wrapping up. "One of the things you've highlighted in here is talking about progress you've made in a lot of areas, I think you can trust yourself to know. When it's right, it's right. I'm noticing you come in with less of a plan, you just take things week to week. I think that's wonderful! You feel things come up when they need to come up. That's important for both of us to trust the process and you trust yourself."

Before I leave, I basically want to know how to naturally bring tickling up in the future. "it's harder when things happened in the past that I want to talk about, that you don't know to ask about."
She makes a good last point that will have me thinking this week "Well, sometimes those will come up when you notice things in the present, like lack of acceptance for yourself, when you notice yourself judging,whatever it might be coming up in the moment and you can trace it back to something in your past that might relate to the tickling, that might be a good time." She smiles and we schedule our next appointment.

 

[hyped_up]

Bravo. Things are really getting interesting with the inclusion of Andrea. Saras session with Leanna and Andrea seemed to do much for her while. And things with Dr. T are taking a different route, but will Sara come back around to getting Dr. T to get more personal? I eagerly await the next installment.

 

[saratk]

It had been a while since I had seen Dr. T due to vacations and things like that. She assigned me to come up with some positive things about tickling so that we could discuss those and hopefully by doing that, my confidence would build.

"It's really hard for me to lead a positive conversation when I'm not viewing it as positive. It's hard to come up with things that feel truthful."
She understood what I was saying.

"So, there's a disconnect because it's not exactly how you're feeling right now but it is someplace that you would like to be." She said. "You would like to see it that way, but that's not where you're at today."

" right" I replied. "so I was trying to find little things to talk about so it's not focused on the negative, but more focused on either neutral or positive aspects of tickling, so at least I can build on that and hopefully be able to talk more openly about the positives."

She continued, "you said that it's hard to start talking about that because it's not how you're feeling today... so sometimes it's good to take a look at what obstacles are getting in your way from feeling that way. What would you say are the challenges and the roadblocks that are getting in the way?" She asked. There was a long pause while I tried to explain why this was overwhelming.

"I think the roadblock is that talking about positive aspects of tickling is really uncharted territory and any positive thing I can throw out there I can also challenge with something negative and dispute it."

She provided an alternative. "What if it was the opposite? I think we've done this before where you threw out the negative thought and we challenge it with a positive. It doesn't seem like those positives carry as much weight for you, do they?"

I realized she was right. "It's very hard for me to see this is positive. It's hard for me to view myself and my interest and tickling as at all relatable."

"what do you think would help you feel differently?" She asks. "What evidence if it exists would make you feel that your interest relatable?"

Another big, hard question. I go on. "I think what would help if the talking positively about it, not focusing on the negative and through that evidence of the positive conversation I find that it's relatable."

"okay will that conversation look like?" She asks.

I continue. "Well I think it would be helpful to kind of go back to where we started a while ago where we start talking about it sort of step by step. sharing too much at once,nI think that will be able to step-by-step let me know that I am on the same page as you,and that I'm being understood and relatable. it kind of feels like I want to share everything and nothing at the same time. I get afraid that if I share something that it's not understood, then assumptions can be made about me that I can't know to correct.. so that's why it feels comfortable lease for now to go slow."

She seems to understand that emotional hesitancy. "I think I can relate to that when I think about what you're talking about is the feeling of needing to confess something. To put it all out on the table which can feel good but I can also feel really vulnerable and scary so it also makes you want to hold it all back, because you're afraid of embarrassment or feeling ashamed...so I can understand that tension that you're feeling. Thinking about it that way, it's clear to me that your sexual interests still feel like something that has to be a secret for you. It feels negative or something that you feel you need to confess like a sin or something.

It's clear she understands. " right. And I understand logically that there is nothing wrong with that. I'm not hurting anyone for liking it. But what I'm trying to get to it is not only accepting it as a part of me, but embracing it and liking that it's a part of me."

"I understand." She says. "It feels important to put it on the table."

"right. I pause. " but the fear is doing it too fast."
"what do you think would be too fast?" She asks

The thought of talking about tickling and not being understood makes my heart starter race but I begin to shake nervously. " I get worried about sharing too much or showing too much vulnerability even though I know there's really no risk in here."

she nods and understanding " but it feels like there is."

I'm nod in agreement "Even though there's not much consequence for anything that I talk about in here for the sake of my comfort and confidence, it's important to me that I go at my own pace."

"sure!" She says with empathy. "There is an anxiety there, so it's hard to suggest that we jump off a cliff. It would feel better to maybe look over first....see that there's water below... How deep is it.. Want to kinda scopethe situation first... Dip a toe in...push someone in first and see how they do." She laughs at her joke and I smile.
"exactly. Yeah."
She looks me in the eye and gives me a reassuring look. "So let's dip a toe in."
I take a deep, audible breath. "Here's where I don't know where to start."

"Well it sounds like you have some things that you want to talk about, but there's other things that you're holding back and you kind of want to talk about them in pieces." She suggests.

"It's not even that I have anything that I particularly want to share or that I'm holding anything back..." I think of the right way to put it. " it's more just I want to start talking about things in a more positive light, I just don't know where to start"

She helps me. "okay. good. let's start with the kernel. I'm sure there's something that we can come up with about tickling in general that is positive and we can start with that and build on it. So let's just start with things that are positive ...laughing. Laughing releases endorphins".

That's a good way to start "right." I say. , I actually recently read an article about the benefits of tickling and a lot of them were sort of health benefits of laughing"

"what kinds of things did you read in the article?" She smiles.

I continue. "things like releasing endorphins and accessing the pleasure centers of the brain. I think also things to do with cardiovascular health and lowering blood pressure and a lot of it was talked about was benefit of laughing....and how I can dispute the positivity of tickling it is that laughing can happen in other contexts, so maybe other contexts are better than tickling...so it's focused on the benefits of laughter rather than actual tickling."

"why is that better?" She ponders with a smile. "The other ways to elicite laughter?"

I think for a second and think about all the times that I've heard someone say even though I'm laughing it doesn't mean I like being tickled "because other ways of eliciting laughter is sort of more on the person's terms I guess?"

She nods. "well let's make it a little bit more general. I think there have been studies as you have said that show the benefits of laughter. I think there are even long-term studies that will show that people that laugh more live longer lives or have healthier lives, and one way to elicit laughter is with tickling. it's not the only way but I think we can connect the dots that it can actually create positives."

I continue. "one thing I also read was something about accessing the pleasure and pain part of the brain at the same time. I'm not sure what that does, but it seem to be something good"

"yeah!" She says with genuine interest. "I would be interested in knowing more about that if you could let me know. based on what I know about the brain, it probably is because having multiple things light up at the same time is good because it's sort of re-energizes your brain, and creates new pathways that can make you smarter and more flexible."

I think about all the news that I've heard about tickling therapies and how I feel like people just make fun of it "one thing I thought about is I don't know if it's because our society is more taboo or suspicious about the helpfulness of things, but other cultures for example, Spain actually have tickling therapy. It's that they feel it's actually helpful enough to provide that."

She feels I'm on to something. "well that's pretty strong evidence of it being looked at as positive! that someone is actually making a business to help people utilizing this. How does that make you feel?"

I think for a moment. "I can see the positivity of it, but it's also hard because I see how our media reports on this kind of thing, and they don't really talk about the health benefits. they just sort of judge it and kind of shine a light on the weirdness of it."

Dr. T has a parallel to share. "it's hard because I feel like that's the case with a lot of things. Treatments and other things.... there's been a lot of things that have been looked at as taboo. even talk therapy for a long time is looked at as not helpful or eccentric! I think there still some controversy to it, so I think that happens with a lot of things."

I nod. "Right. and so when I see that negative press or judgement, instead of of thinking they're wrong and this is helpful and good, my mind goes to that the judgements are probably right, and it probably isn't actually beneficial."

"how about now as we're talking about it?" Dr. T asks

" I think it's helping." I reply. "I think while we can't know for sure that these treatments are helpful, I think I'm seeing as it is more open for debate and there's a strong possibility that it's a positive thing. "

Dr. T seems to find this valid. "Right! and people wouldn't do it if they weren't finding it helpful. Makes me think about How there have been studies done for probably 100 years on the power of prayer, and how it's helpful for people but there is no real scientific explanation to it but it can be healing. I think there's probably a correlation for this tickle therapy. I'm not sure what it all entails, but I'm sure it's helping people, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it."

It's comforting to hear this point of view. "right. and it seems like there is laugh therapy that seems to be taking off a little bit more here in the States where it's done with fake laughter sort of like a laugh yoga. The other one that I heard of was where I believe it was in Costa Rica, where they thought because of the health benefits of laughing and being tickled, there's actually a doctor providing this service of tickle therapy to help with people lose weight but I don't think the scientific background necessarily held up. otherwise I think we would be hearing more about it. That's one that if people heard about it they would be judging it, think it's not legitimate."

"what do you think about it?" Dr. T asks.

"I think I'm interested in the therapy because I'm interested in tickling. But I think if I wasn't, I would just say it something that probably doesn't actually work."

"The interesting thing about those therapies is that people come up with things sometimes on a whim, but if it's a doctor or a treatment provider of some kind, they come up with it usually because it's helpful in some way. It might not always hold up to scientific studies, for example if you had 500 people do this tickle therapy to lose weight, and it didn't pan out to prove to be effective, anecdotally the person who came up with that finds it to be true and helpful, so that's something. I'm sure that's true here... that maybe it wasn't proven, but we all know that mood helps lose weight, that stress release helps lose weight, and all of those things can be tied back to laughter and tickling, so I'm sure that's where the person came up with the idea."

It's comforting having this open of a conversation. A real change. "I think when I saw that news story, I worried that it was going to get bad press, that the Dr. was just a whack job, and it would be viewed that he was going to help these poor people and he didn't. I think that's something that bothers me: is sometimes when tickling is in the news in any way, it's done so in a negative connotation...for example, someone who sexually abused as a child a lot of times tickling will be involved in it, so that effects my ability to be confident in this because of that assumption."

She gives me a sympathetic look. "You worry about that. You worry about that so much that you take on the guilt of something that really has nothing to do with you...but that has been the message that is been given to you so strongly that you feel that guilt. I think it's kind of ironic that a lot of the people that are abusing people are not having that guilt, but you have somehow absorbed it even though you're not doing that. Your interest in tickling, even acting on it doesn't make you abusive"

I add to her observation "maybe part of it is I'm making assumptions about how it's viewed that are not totally accurate. I know that a lot of times I make assumptions based on fear without real evidence. But it does bother me when I feel like the only press you hear about tickling is something negative. It could be that I absorb those more and don't hear the positives at all."

A lightbulb goes off for Dr. T. "I just made a connection as you were talking about sexual abuse. I thought about another group that gets often tied in with that is priests. you know whenever you hear something on the news about priests, it usually has to do with sexual abuse. And I know plenty of people that I've had great mentorship, positive experiences and healing with their priest, but you don't ever hear about that. You only hear the bad stuff. So I think in that example if you were to broaden the scope, you would see that there really are more positives then negatives. You only hear the things that are meant to shock and appall."

This makes so much sense. "Right" I say, "and that exposure definitely colors peoples view of things."

"You're right." she says. "And I don't know the facts. I don't know if people have a negative connotations with tickling in general or not. All I know is I did not draw those lines between the interest in tickling and any kind of abuse until you mentioned it. I see where you went with it, but I honestly didn't draw those connections until you said that."

I explain more. "I think that because of kind of being on the defense, I just always assumed that being tickled is a negative experience for most people."

"That's a big one." She says with a sympathetic sigh. "That's a big thought to overcome. It's not negative for you. Or is it?" She asks

I think for a minute. Negative and positive are so intertwined. "I think it depends on the context. obviously if I'm in control and I'm choosing to be tickling someone, it's not negative... but I can think of when I was a kid there were times where while it was something that I enjoyed...being tickled, there were times where I really wouldn't want a certain person to tickle me, even if it's something I enjoyed. In that case, It definitely would be negative."

Dr. T tries to make sure she understands. "It seems like when you think about that... a potential of having something happen that makes you not comfortable it seems like you connect the uncomfortable feeling with tickling? And not the person involved? The thing that came to mind that this reminded me of is getting a gift. Getting a gift is really fun in general right? Normally always associated as positive, but if I was given a gift from someone that I didn't want to get a gift from, that could be a really uncomfortable experience...not because of the gift that's been given, but because of the person...so because of that, it's uncomfortable...the experience of getting a gift would be negative even if the gift wasn't negative. it would have to do with the person.

"That makes a lot of sense!" I say. "I think I just don't have the same parallel of the positive of getting a gift and tickling. I think I just have always associated it as for the most part negative for people."

She replies, "My mind went there because you just got done saying that when you were a kid you like being tickled...it was fun, it made you laugh. so that made me think of a birthday present. So, does it shift anything at all? does it open a space to maybe think about it a little bit differently?"

I nod. "It definitely does. I think my challenge is wrapping my head around other people viewing it is wholly positive in the right circumstance. For example, if you take the gift example, you might say 90% of the time it's good or positive, and 10% percent of the time it's negative. I might shift around and say with tickling my view is that people find it 90% negative 10% positive."

Dr. T makes a face like that seems inflated to her, and she can see now how distorted I have it.

She comments, "I think what's happening, and you articulated it so clearly is that it's not that we can't come up with positives. they're out there. some of them are facts, especially you know, the ones that you have come up with that word from studies they're out there. The challenge lies in this other part of your brain that is challenging those things. I remember when we first started talking, you would talk about experiences with the tickling and talk about how you did something really wrong. I would tell you that I don't think you did, and it would take a lot of effort to chip away at that...where we had to convince you that what you did wasn't wrong...it's just how you were distorting it. I think it's going to take the same effort on your part here to bring a megaphone to the positive things that were talking about, and quiet those negative thoughts that you're having."

I nod. "I totally Agree. I think it's very possible that I'll get to that point, it's just an extra hurdle that even the talking about tickling is uncomfortable, so that is something that's going to have to get better over time."

"Right" says Dr. T. "it's important to put a megaphone to the positive things were talking about.. and not just today, but really holding onto those things.&

"with the goal being that I can notice someone feels negatively about tickling, and I don't, I can I feel positively and that's okay, and feel confident in that. I'm not there yet."

She chimes in with something very supportive. "I think about when I'm surrounded by different people and hearing their different experiences, I think how much I grow in understanding that. I think you create that when you share experiences that are different than what they've experienced. I think how wonderful that is for those people that hear about those experiences, and also, how wonderful for you to be present and authentic and show people who you really are. You're also tapping into something that's passionate."

I clarify, "Even if it's something that I'm not going to talking about a lot, it's really important to gain the confidence and get that shame out of there. It causes anxiety that I really don't need in my life."

"And if there is a real loss there." She goes on. "Anytime we feel anxiety about something that engulfs something we feel passionate about, it blocks that passion. There may be a finite amount of passion we have or a finite amount of joy in our body, and we need to find a way to unblock that. I can see that it's difficult for you to come up with positive things and it seems like you have a tendency to come up with counter things that are negative for the opportunity for you to come up with positive things to counter the negative. I think something that would help and something that I find that I do if I'm starting to become negative is say "my judgmental side of me would say..." Just by admitting that it's your judgmental side it kind of gives power to knowing that you're not being realistic necessarily; that it's something that is coming out of insecurity or fear it might not actually be true"

Inreply, "sometimes it's important that even if we don't have the answers of the facts of whether or not if the general public find tickling to be positive,m even if you don't have the facts, it's helpful kind of making it debatable and analyzing other possibilities other than the negative"

She nods. "Right or even disagreeing. I know that's kind of tricky in therapy because I want to support you and I want to find ways to agree with what you're saying' but at the same time that might be something that you need...the counter argument of you think this way but actually that's probably not true. I don't think I said it, but I think you saw my face that when you said 90% of people find tickling to be negative that I did not find that to be realistic. When I think of tickling I think of laughing, I think of kids asking mom or dad to be tickle monster and I think of things that bring people joy."


Hearing her say tickle monster was kind of exciting "Yeah I don't know if maybe being out of childhood has something to do with my difficulty finding the shift to looking at it positively..

"You know you just need a lightbulb go off in my head" she says. "it seems like with adults' there's a real tendency to disown our childhood selves. I see it especially with teens that we suddenly get to an age where we don't feel we can enjoy things that we enjoyed as kids. You get to that 18 or 19-year-old range, and suddenly nothing about when I was a kid is me anymore. I'm nothing like the kid that liked to sing in front of the parents and all that has anything to do with who I am now, when really it could it could be things that you still enjoy...we feel a need to disengage with those things. I think a lot of times people as adults have a hard time integrating those parts of themselves as an adult because we try to assert ourselves as being mature and not childlike.

We then had to wrap up. I felt so much better about being able to talk about this and I feel I have a place to start off with next week

 

[TTime21]

The insight of the back and forth between individuals is fantastic. Just found this thread and think it's amazing. I feel myself becoming more comfortable talking about the topic simply by reading through the experiences with the therapist.

 

[TTime21]

Bump for this fascinating concept