Should Celtic Emperor get his own artwork archive? Why or Why not?

[MTJpub]

As for the TMF thread, I am the one who deleted it. So the "need" was completely my opinion that it should be removed as no one was complaining about it. The point wasn't to bash this site, but rather vent my frustration over the matter, which is what it was about and I was in the right to. I fail to see how that has anything to do with this site, as most of the people who have voted are not even from TTC. I cannot be held accountable if other persons decide they want to make it about something else. I did see where it was going so I deleted it.

I applaud you for deleting it. However when you add fuel to a fire you are responsible for the results. I’m just pointing out that no good is coming from this ongoing campaign and that thread was a great example of what I mean.

It makes sense then that a poll was made instead. Sure, you lose your anonymous status, but it makes it easier to handle and more practical.

Actually Rajee chose to make the poll not anonymous when he posted it. It could have been anonymous. My point is because it is not anonymous it is skewed in your favor for the reasons I already listed.

The only solution is a poll where people have a choice to vote either way.

How is this poll a solution? The host has already made it clear that the results would not effect the decision that has been made. Only a small group of people have an interest in it’s outcome either way. It’s only purpose at this point is to make you feel better about the situation. In my opinion it’s completely self-serving at this point.

While you did not create the post you laid the foundation for it’s creation with a series of posts on the subject. Ultimately you are responsible. Which is not a bad thing if you feel it is the right thing to actively support. However my opinion is that the way you have chosen to handle this situation is disrespectful and ungrateful to a place that has given you an outlet for your art and ideas for years.

Well, I have said all I wanted to say concerning this subject. So please don't take any offense if I choose to refrain from any further commentary. I truly detest intenet drama but I can't help but get pulled into it on occasion 😀


Morandilas
MTJ Publishing

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I applaud you for deleting it. However when you add fuel to a fire you are responsible for the results. I’m just pointing out that no good is coming from this ongoing campaign and that thread was a great example of what I mean.



Actually Rajee chose to make the poll not anonymous when he posted it. It could have been anonymous. My point is because it is not anonymous it is skewed in your favor for the reasons I already listed.



How is this poll a solution? The host has already made it clear that the results would not effect the decision that has been made. Only a small group of people have an interest in it’s outcome either way. It’s only purpose at this point is to make you feel better about the situation. In my opinion it’s completely self-serving at this point.

While you did not create the post you laid the foundation for it’s creation with a series of posts on the subject. Ultimately you are responsible. Which is not a bad thing if you feel it is the right thing to actively support. However my opinion is that the way you have chosen to handle this situation is disrespectful and ungrateful to a place that has given you an outlet for your art and ideas for years.

Well, I have said all I wanted to say concerning this subject. So please don't take any offense if I choose to refrain from any further commentary. I truly detest intenet drama but I can't help but get pulled into it on occasion 😀


Morandilas
MTJ Publishing

I could say the exact same using the exact same idealogy by simply reversing the situation.

Its a domino effect really.

The artists complained when they saw a nomination. They should have made a poll instead, ask the mods to watch over it, and then allow the people that want me to have the forum to say something and put their votes in. Or, they could have posted in that same nomination thread.

Why didn't this happen?

Answer that and call it not compaigning. Just because they did it in private doesn't absolve them from it.

How is this poll a solution? I just stated why.

Also, if we allow this thread and poll to sweep the actions of them clean then it provides a platform with which to acquire not just their opinion, but the opinion of the site in one, neat package.

This thread is no more mine than it is theirs. You admitted just now that if you feel it is the right thing to support this thread, then do it. I did, have, and am. So are others, and the poll results currently reflect that.

This does not mean people opposed to it cannot speak either. They are encouraged to.

It's not my fault that the very nature of this topic would have people swing my way. Who doesn't want an artist to have a forum?

That seems like a trick question, right? Well, its not, because they can post and take a poll. Just don't expect their opinion to make much sense; how do you say no to a good thing. You have to demonize it, and no one is stupid enough to do that.

As for not being appriciative enough, I can say the same exact thing and apply it to what you're saying. In fact, is that not part of what compels people to support me here? The fact that despite those years of being here, despite the contributions, despite taking requests and drawing things for you guys, and despite it all that I am being treated like a second class artist, at the back of the line, and my contributions are made not to count but even the slighest effort made by anyone else does?

"Its because its not a tickling picture, thats why, CE!"

Thats BS, and I've dispelled the myth by exposing those sneaky artists and how the very decision itself was wishy-washy and because of what they said. I honestly believe if they had said nothing I would have the forum now as Myriads would have recieved no pressure from them. He even said he was about to.

Yeah, the forum may not be given to me, but we all deserve to know why.

Had those artists handled their criticism of the idea of a forum correctly, this situation would not exist.

And the question still remains- why do they count but the people that voted do not? "You campaigned, blah blah blah!" So did they, only we don't know what they said, and thats not right as it doesn't allow for anything but their opinion to matter, especially if no one is aware they said these things behind our backs.

They are just as much to blame. But lucky them we don't know who they are, what they said, or what it took to get the staff to agree with them.

Well played guys, I must admit.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Oh, and if this is already decided, why are people voting no then? If they are going to get their way regardless of what I or anyone else says, then why bother voting at all? 😀

If theres nothing I should be trying to prove, then why is there anything they should be trying to? Yeah, I thought so. 😛

 

[isabeau]

i would like to ask this? what is wrong with giving Celtic his own archive? its obvious that many people support this seeing the number of yes's. i'm sorry i dont understand. it seems to me that someone as passionate about his work as Celtic appears to be deserves his own archive. just my humble opinion of course.

isabeau

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

What I find funny about this actually, is that the mods are bothering to vote no when they've supposedly, we can only assume based on the vote selection they've made, decided not to give me the forum. Yet they will not come out here and say the simple words: Celtic Emperor, you are not getting a forum. They expect their silence and the fact they voted no to deliver that messege, when an actual public statement (by one of them on behalf of them all) to us would be much better, final, and certain. So far, they've left this in the wind without actually answering me, you, or anyone.

So I'm wondering whether their voting at all is in the hopes that I might be shown up here (so as to hopefully extinguish all doubt). The yes votes are still in the lead, so maybe its possible the no voters or would be no voters are hoping to rub in the let down by challenging the yes votes (dispite the fact they don't matter supposedly as the minds are already made up), catching up to them, tying them, or even surpassing them.

It is becoming clear to me, that it is not just the intention to deny me, but to attempt to provide enough no votes so as to question how much support I had in this poll to begin with. Perhaps they will not even say anything until the no votes are higher than the yes votes or the no votes are close enough. That way, it won't look ridiculous for them to make the statement, as the votes will agree with them. Right now the votes don't, so they're silent and not saying anything. If this isn't the case, then their silence is awkward, as a simple public statement will have made things perfectly clear.

If not, we call this rubbing salt in the wound, where I come from.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

The attached picture is a roughsketch of a piece I'm currently working on.

It features a japanese wife whose husband wrote her saying he is coming home soon from the war.

Unfortunately this joy is horribly cut short as her doorbell rings and she is greeted by men in military uniforms...

The picture is intitled "Never coming home".


Why am I bothering to share this with you now when this situation is all but hopeless for me/us?

Its simple. I figure that a picture full of emotion like this (which isn't even finished or colored yet, just wait until it is) is of equal or greater value than a run-of-the-mill redundant picture of some anime girl getting her foot tickled.

I have and always will offer an alternative to what you come to expect. And if that truth wasn't tolerated already I would have been driven out of this site .

It could be said that I offer a break and refreshment from your fantasies, and by virtue of my artistic merit, I do a good job of that.

Its not a question of what works or sells necessarily (as aside from the tickling publications you make no business). Its a question of what people want to see or don't mind seeing. I have recieved enough postitive feedback over the years, from people within this very community. That, coupled with the fact I do have a fair ratio of tickling/non-tickling pictures, has made me one of your most prominent artists to date.

It is a well enough established fact, considering support threads and this very poll and it's current poll result standings, that I am wanted here, in any capacity I am willing to make that. My time here has involved very little compromise. I have both willingly drawn those fun tickling pictures, and have taken requests for those tickling and fetish pictures, and I have delivered on many occasions. This very site is much more than just about tickling, and its truely one of the reasons I remain.

If the fear of giving me a forum to store my work was that it would create an imbalance or take the art content of this site off course, the fear is exagerated, greatly exagerated. I am virtually the only one doing this and sharing all with you. I've left nothing but my high-level portfolio work unavailable to you.

I have been here for years. You have seen me evolve and grow from mere crappy sketches to professional-level talent and ability, and my talent only grows. It is a talent I have shared with you always, despite the confrontations, trials, and tribulations of the past.

Why you would not want me to have an archive, if only by my special merits and worthiness alone, is really beyond me.

I can only assume this is being done to spite me on behalf of those who have personal grudges and negative feelings toward me and simply cannot let them go.

Seeing who counts and who does not in this matter, I find it atrocious that the people that mattered to the mods the most are the ones who had/have fostered those feelings for so long. It is not out of anything but malice, fear, and/or possibly jealousy that they don't want me to have the forum, or possibly don't want me to be here at all. They see me as a threat, and that to give me any acknowledgement (especially in the form of an archive) only makes me a stronger figure here. As I have no agenda outside of sharing my art with you and posting in the forums, I do not see where their concern and worry comes from.

There is no merit in attempting to block me out, and they gain very little in the long run by doing so.

Anyways, I just figured I'd say this as well. I'm going down with the ship, and I don't have a problem with that.

I know my supporters and I are right in this matter, regardless of the circumstance, and I firmly stand by this, win, lose, or draw.

 

[rajee]

That's a very gut-wrenching heart string pulling tender OUTSTANDING sketch of a heart broken somber wife, CE.
I hope you continue to share your artwork at Tickle Theater and any other forum on the net that will have ya if you choose to not to show it here anymore. But dont stop there branch out to traditional ways of showing your artwork: newspapers, TV, magazines, comic books, comics etc...

Go out with your head held high on your own 2 feet WALKING TALL. Bravo!!

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

LOL! I already said I was going to keep sharing elsewhere regardless of what happens on this site. Why would I stop sharing my art on the rest of the internet because things don't pan out for me here? 😀

That would be akin to commiting artistic suicide. ^________^

And thank you. I can't wait to finish this up and color it. 🙂

 

[steph]

Yes~he's immensely talented artist and a real sweetheart.
XOXO

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Yes~he's immensely talented artist and a real sweetheart.
XOXO

A sweetheart, huh? 😉

LOL ^^

We haven't had very many conversations, but from the ones we did I'm glad to see you would think that about me. It lets me know I made a good impression. 🙂

Or are you lovely dovey with anyone, sweetie? 😉 😀

 

[steph]

Mhmmm...
XOXO

Or are you lovely dovey with anyone, sweetie? 😉 😀

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Mhmmm...
XOXO

🙄 Of course....

 

[Myriads]

CE wishes a public statement from staff. Ok here is a public statement from me, the staffs boss.

First up he has misinterpreted some of my letters to him. The main point of error is in that there is some organized resistance to his having an archive. There is none. The fact that he currently does not have an archive lies at my feet and mine alone. You want to point at someone. Here I am. I make the call.

Let me give you some insight into how I come to deal these things out.

An artist comes to my attention by any of a various number of ways. So I get a name. When I get time I review some of their work, and look at what people have to say about it. If they had Golden Feather nominations that is noted and can help. That's the 'work' part of the equation. Art is subjective. I view it with a very open attitude when I do this. I see what people say. I also look to see what is not said.

Then I look at how this person has acted as a member of our community. This involves the way they have posted here on the forum, if they have caused moderation issues, and the attitude in which they have interacted with their peers. This aspect is more important to me then the other. The TMF is about community and the part you've played in it is very important to me when I'm handing out a perk like an archive. This is the ‘community’ or ‘spirit’ part of the equation.

I'll also occasionally ask other community members what their opinions are on an artist to see what a peer thinks. I find that peer review often offers up insights that I miss in the other areas.

I take all this and make a call. Using this method I’ve OKed all the archives you see, and denied a few as well.

CE asked for an archive (The first person to ask for one for themselves before another person had mentioned them as an artist deserving a archive to me). So I told him I'd think on it and began my process.

I looked at his art. No problems there. It was good. Though it was sparse, there was enough.

I filed that fact away.

I then checked his posting history here on the TMF. The results were that I found he had more moderation calls on his posts for being rude and violating the GR then I'd remembered. I reviewed these posts. And our interactions that resulted with him from them. One of them involved a spirited defense by CE of his right to post an image involving minors here, others were about harsh things he said to new artists who were deeply hurt by his ‘reviews’.

Ok.... I dropped that in the hopper.

So I asked some opinions. And it was one of the most negative set of replies that I ever got on anyone I’d asked about. Condescending, arrogant, and insulting were all terms used.

So I stepped back and looked at the whole that all this drew for me.

And I made a call. This person was not one with community attitude of a nature that I felt an archive holder should have. And decided to not issue the archive at that time.

Eventfully he asked about my decision. I said not at this time. I didn't say never, because I fully believe that people can, and do change over time, and because of that, never is too final. I easily envisioned a time when I'd see a change, and he would get an archive. It would just take time.

I kept getting requests from him. Threads were started on other websites to encourage people to post here in support of him, to, I guess, influence my call. Basically I came periodically feel as if someone had crawled up my ass with this issue and set up camp. Now I had someone campaigning for what I see is a nice thing we offer for being a positive part of the community. I find that distasteful.

With each request I said some variety of "Not Now" or "Thinking on it". I was of course waiting to see if things would change. In fact I WAS seeing some positive changes.

But as the requests continued, they began to highlight some of the very traits that the people I'd spoken to over a year ago mentioned. An arrogance, a sense of entitlement, and an inability to simply accept 'not now' as a reasonable answer.

This thread itself is a testament to that same set of attitudes.

CE, Your attitude toward other artists had been on an upswing and improving, your moderation issues were moving into the past and I could see a change in attitude. If you had simply waited, and did what you do, create art, you’d probably have had an archive by now. But every time you made headway you’d open up on me again and remind me of why I made my first call by showing me the very things that led me to make it. You sank your own ship deeper every time. Even when you asked me what you needed to do to get an archive, and I answered with the honest “Be quiet and wait” you couldn’t. You opened all this up, a private matter in public, and not to your benefit. In the poll thread I’ve watched you turn a strong supporter (MTJ) to a neutral, and then to negative opinion on your cause in the space of a day. This behavior has been seen and felt by many of your peers in this community. It’s made a difference. There is no conspiracy to ‘get you’. I made the call based on the average impression you made on the community as I could best read it. That’s all. And I left room for the future to be different.

You wished an explanation. There it is.

Note, this is not a debate. It’s an explanation. It’s not an invitation to discussion.

And as to and answer on the archive, all my previous thoughts still hold:

Not now.

Myriads

 

[Mastertank1]

Yes

Yes

Mastertank1

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Thank you for that. 🙂

Theres just one thing. Either everyone else has seen that and doesn't feel it matters, as it is in the past, or, everyone has seen it, heard of it, and doesn't care, or any combination of those two.

Now, granted, it is not right to dismiss what you just said as it is true but there are inconsistancies with your statements and things you are intentionally leaving out.

And ironically, they are the things that make this very event, from start to finish, an issue for me.

You say at the beginning of your post here that its all on you and its all your decision. I'm not debating that. Of course it is. But, you fail to mention however the artists you claim came to you and by a way you did not explain, convinced you to "stay your hand", as you put it.

A great deal of my entire effort had to do with just this one aspect alone, and now you try to make it seem like it was a non factor at all. Unless you lied and simply made that up to see what I would I would do (ie- you were testing me), then I'm wondering why you did that. There was no need for it, as you knew it would cause me to reevaluate my opinion of the artists who may have had something to do with this.

You can say all of that and I won't argue with it or defend myself. It is in the past and I am a better person now and far less critical of other artwork as you admit. In your words, you were about to give me the forum.

When I learned however that artists had something to do with it, you said they managed to convince you otherwise, which can only be interpreted as "they managed to swing my decision the other way around".

It is this and this only that I have a problem with. My entire argument rests on it alone and nothing else. I was poised and in such a posture to recieve the forum, and you were admittedly in the opinion to give me the forum.

But then, you claim these artists interjected at some point, and because you felt I was campaigning elsewhere any opinion, thought, or comment of support (whether it came from a TMF member or not) wouldn't count, but theirs would, despite the fact most people that supported me then and now are TMF people anyways.

I'm also upset with this, as, from my point of view, it was an excuse to turn the decision you must have heavily debated, around. For all that thought and consideration to be turned around by some artists (who may or may not exist if you made them up) seemed like it was on a meager technicality that you swung the other way and all that deliberation and progress I made was for nothing. It seems like you just gave up at the point that it truely mattered most, despite the strong willed and resolute person you seem to be.

Don't think for a moment I didn't think it was hard for you to bring yourself to agree with the forum. I am fully aware of what you had to consider. Therefore, any complaint, from a single individual, or group breaking the straw on the camels's back just doesn't seem right to me, and it doesn't seem right to these people who have gone out of their way to support me anyway, knowing full well what I have said or done before. If all these things are in the past, then I'm wondering why the past they brought into the present by way of complaining made any difference. If its in the past and what they're referin g to has happened in the past, then its still a PART of the PAST. Just because they renew it and bring it to your attention doesn't change anything about it.

I'm not angry with you, and I'm not besmerching you at all nor have I, the site, or anyone here really. I'm just angry with your decision. And not even because it was not in my favor (as I told you repeatedly to just say no if thats what it was and I would let it go), but because of the nature it was decided.

This again, is assuming these artists are real and you're just not mentioning them here because you still want/need to protect their identities. And I believe from now onwards you'll feel as though you have to, for their sake.

If you worry I might take it out on them, I'd never do that. Yeah, I may have said some mean things in the past, but I'd never do this to them or try to, or wish it on them.

I'm sure with all the other things you've observed me do over the years, that one thing stands out as a fact- I've never tried to make anyone feel they are unwelcome here.

I've always been a good person, and thats not going to change because things don't go my way.

As you say, this is a misunderstanding.

As I said though, many times, I would have appriciated a more direct answer.

You say " not now" right now, but you didn't say it then.

Sometimes I am one of those people you need to be blunt with and thats not something alot of people do these days, even online. Everyone wants to sugarcoat something, or mince words, or provide a situation in as painless a way as possible because the other person may be too weak or emotional to handle it. I certainly am not and you know that You could have told everthing you told me now then and it would have been better that way. And while that is good for most people (being sugarcoated over), its not the best way to handle it with all people all the time, and I appriciate your taking the time to finally do this, even under the circumstances.

I can let it go now. I know you think that I should have let it go before, but I couldn't for many factors and reasons, none of which actually had anything to do with pride or anything like that. They were all very sound reasons at the time, and even though you've explained yourself more honestly and thoroughly at last, I don't feel as though anything should change at this point.

All thats out of the way is the misunderstandings and miscommunications.

It does not solve this, only explains it.

The only way to solve this is for you to work your way around this eventually and for me to decide whether or not to share anymore until such a time that I do get the forum, which is more like an inevitability than a question....we all know that.

Outside of the situation, everything I've said about the art aspect is true I believe, and if these people didn't think so they wouldn't have supported me no matter what I said.

I'm sorry you disagree with them and that you just gave up on the brink of making a favorable decision. I hope that someday you will not just give me the forum because its what they want and because you see no problem with it, but because you feel the same as they do and are of the sentiment that good art is good art, and that it has a place here. That would make having the forum feel much better. 🙂