Smoking to be banned in the UK..time for another smoking debate!!

[Haltickling]

I'm against a government-regulated smoking ban in pubs or bars. That's a modern form of prohibition. A ban is okay at places where people haven't got a choice to avoid, like work or public buildings But grant people the choice at leisure locations.

I think there's a definite market for non-smoking bars and pubs. An increasing number of people want to avoid second-hand smoke. But there's also a definite demand for bars and pubs where people are allowed to smoke. Put up big warning signs in front of them, telling people in no uncertain terms that second-hand smoking kills. Enter at your own risk, so to say. But give people a choice!

Don't give me the argument that non-smokers have to pay the bill for the smokers' medical treatment. They also have to pay for sport injuries, for traffic accidents, for household accidents. That's called a solidarity hazard. And if the governments would use the income from tobacco tax to treat tobacco-induced diseases instead of stuffing their bottomless bugdet holes with that money, the smokers would actually pay for their own treatment in advance.

 

[Killerk]

Another thing I'd like to know is why are cigarettes so much more expensive in New York? I hear a pack up there goes for $8. I pay $4.50 for a pack.

You only pay $4.50?! Here in the UK, the average cost of a 20 pack of cigarettes is around $8 as well (converted from £UK)!!

Basically..tax. Different countries (and by the sounds of it, different states in the US) charge different levels of tax on alchohol and cigarettes. Tax helps generate revenue for the treasury, therefore more tax = more money for the government! And I didn't even vote for out current governement in the UK!!

 

[masterandticklee]

I heard that in California after the smoking ban was put into place their business increased at bars and clubs. When I was home in NewYork this summer I didn't see a maked diference in the patronage at the various bars and clubs... but that remains to be seen in the cold winter ahead. I must say i've saved tons of money already on laundry and drycleaning by not having to wash the smoke stench out of my clothes everytime I wanted a drink(which is like everyday).
I always assumed the increasing cost of ciggrettes was attributed too the the class action lawsuits against the manufacturers and the increasing state taxes meant to compensate for the burden the healthcare of the ailing individuals puts on all us non-smokers.
GQguy

 

[crazybob]

I think it should be banned in ANY public place. Not just because 2nd hand smoke kills too... but mostly bacause of smell. I'm severly allergic to cigerette smoke, so as you imaging, i can't eat dinner in any resturant that allows smoking. Smoking sections don't keep the smell away from us non-smokers either. Having a smoking section in a resturant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool. I don't care if it's bad for me or not. It's nasty, and I don't want to smell it while i'm trying to eat.

And Shedevil, i've heard people say that secondhand smoke is worse too. Yes, you are breathing out a dilluted amount, but i think it's because essentially there is more second hand smoke bacause of the number of smokers in the room at the time, if that makes any sense.

Oh well, just my two cents worth. Take it or leave it.

 

[SheDevil1]

I think it should be banned in ANY public place. Not just because 2nd hand smoke kills too... but mostly bacause of smell. I'm severly allergic to cigerette smoke, so as you imaging, i can't eat dinner in any resturant that allows smoking. Smoking sections don't keep the smell away from us non-smokers either. Having a smoking section in a resturant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool. I don't care if it's bad for me or not. It's nasty, and I don't want to smell it while i'm trying to eat.

And Shedevil, i've heard people say that secondhand smoke is worse too. Yes, you are breathing out a dilluted amount, but i think it's because essentially there is more second hand smoke bacause of the number of smokers in the room at the time, if that makes any sense.

Oh well, just my two cents worth. Take it or leave it.

But then, if there were more smokers in the room, wouldn't the '1st hand smoker' be in MORE danger, because he's inhaling 1st hand smoke, AND second-hand smoke? It's essentially not worse, because the more smokers you add to the room, the more 2nd hand smoke the 1st hand smoker inhales as well. Anyway, I'm not gonna outright explain why I smoke, as that's probably obvious. But I will say this - who wants to live to be 90 anyway? Lol.

 

[crazybob]

But then, if there were more smokers in the room, wouldn't the '1st hand smoker' be in MORE danger, because he's inhaling 1st hand smoke, AND second-hand smoke? It's essentially not worse, because the more smokers you add to the room, the more 2nd hand smoke the 1st hand smoker inhales as well. Anyway, I'm not gonna outright explain why I smoke, as that's probably obvious. But I will say this - who wants to live to be 90 anyway? Lol.

LOL i have no clue. I'm not a doctor, i just though i had a decent explination. I guess not, it does make more sense as you said. You gotta admit, it was a nice try though!

 

[nessonite1]

I'm allergic to cigarette smoke as well but not severely. It's a tricky issue. On a personal level I'd like to see no smoking allowed in any public place unless it was a designated "smoking area" well away from everyone else without any chance of contaminating the rest of the air.
However I also have issues with the government enforcing their rules on the various businesses. While the public can go into any restaurant it still is private property and it should be up to the descresion of the owner.
I think my personal problems with smoking though outweigh on this particular issue. I hate cigarettes with a passion. They make you look stupid and smell HORRIBLE. Seriously there's nothing grosser than the smell eminating from a heavy smoker. My mother was a smoker (though I think she's pretty much quit now) and a year after moving away from home I went back for a visit. The stench coming off of her that used to not phaze me was just sickening to me.

 

[AphroditeRabbit]

I find the effects of second hand smoke on people easy to argue for. So, since Vlad was the only one who suggested I debate (and debate against it) I will.
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I have a strong background in smoking (knowings its effects, what it can do, how it kills, etc). I have done countless research on this topic and lost many loved ones to cigarettes.
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First lets start with second hand smoke. Since I don't want this post to get too lengthy (more than it already will), this is all I will focus on.

There are two kinds of second hand smoke that are produced at the same time. One is called mainstream smoke, which is what is exhaled by the smoker. The second kind is called 'sidestream smoke'. Sidestream smoke is what comes off the burning end of a cigarette.

Second hand smoke contains a mixture of more than 4,000 chemicals, and 50 of those are known cancer-causing products. It is a known carcinogen (cancer causing), and causes an increased risk for lung cancer on coronary heart disease. It is simply said as an 'increased risk' because no one can factually say cigarettes or second hand smoke cause it. (Think of it this way, some people never get lung cancer or die of it and live well into their prime.)

Children exposed to this have all KINDS of increases in sicknesses ranging from but not limited to, SIDS, asthma (which my sister now has since she was raised in a smoking environment), pneumonia, etc.
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I've checked several sources and all agree the average for deaths among non smokers due to second hand smoke exposure estimates to be
3,000 deaths of lung cancer per year
35,000 deaths of coronary heart disease.

Other interesting statistics (due to second hand smoke):
An estimated...
8,000 to 26,000 new asthma cases come about in children
150,000 to 300,000 cases of bronchitis and pneumonia (age less than 18 months, and an average of 10,000 will require hospitilization).
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Want to know how they find research that says your second hand smoke is in someone elses blood? Here it is as directly quoted from the national center for chronic disease prevention and health promotion:

Cotinine is a major metabolite of nicotine. Exposure to nicotine can be measured by analyzing the cotinine levels in the blood, saliva, or urine. Since nicotine is highly specific for tobacco smoke, serum cotinine levels track exposure to tobacco smoke and its toxic constituents.

In 1991, data showed that nearly 90 percent of the U.S. population had measurable levels of serum cotinine in their blood. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Report on Human Exposure to Environmental Chemicals found more than a 75 percent decrease in median cotinine (metabolized nicotine) levels for nonsmokers in the United States since 1991.

Children and teenagers, 3-19 years old, had higher levels of cotinine than did adults, 20 years old and above.
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Here is a list of some chemicals in cigarettes that you may be familiar with:

1. Carbon Monoxide: Just stick your mouth on a car exhaust pipe, you get the same poison.

2. Tolune: It's an industrial solvent used in explosives

3. Formaldehyde: Remember those dead animals you had to dissect in high school and that smelly stuff they were preserved in so they don't rot? Yeah that's in there.

4. Hydrogen Cyanide: Your basic rat poison

5. Ammonia: Poisonous gas and cleaning chemical.

6. Phenol: This disinfects toilets.

7. Quinoline: It preserves specimens.

8.: Zinc: An anticorrosion coating for metals

9. Polonium-210: A radioactive element which is a known carcinogen (it causes cancer!)

10. Butane: Cigarette lighter fluid (because lighting the poison stick isn't enough)

11. Cadmium: Used in rechargeable batteries.

12. Acetone: This is in your basic nail polish remover

13. Naphthalene: Put in mothballs

Need I go on or would you like me to list more poisons that I don't want to breath in second hand?

Most ingredients put into a cigarette help foster a nicotine addiction.
The ENTIRE list of chemicals can be found at this link, which is three pages long. http://quitsmoking.about.com/cs/nicotineinhaler/a/cigingredients.htm


I'm ending it here, I believe this is sufficient enough until someone debates back.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Very good post Ms. Rabbit. Keep them up. ^^

 

[naveltkltr1350]

now Krystle, I wouldnt say you got carried away. Great job on that arguement. I have to agree with you completely. I never liked smoking anyways. Especially as a Athlete, smoking and running never went well together, and second hand from friends was never fun to inhale and then go and try to run sprints with..the burn thats in your chest with inhalation of second hand is far worse, in my opinion than lighting one up and smoking. At the time of my high school football days, i had sports asthma, which was basically breathing problems induced by strainious physical activity. I have fought off the asthma and no longer need the inhaler when i run sprints around the track. Now can you imagine someone with asthma, chillin with his friends and they all decided to smoke a cigar or cigarette b4 practice and you are stuck in the car with them? Yeah, its not pretty. Ive seen plenty of lives destroyed by smoking. I will see many more because of it. 🙁

 

[alf1]

I'm ending it here, I believe this is sufficient enough until someone debates back.

Yeah nothing new in there. Cigarettes causes cancer........coffee is a poison etc etc.....
I think that nobody wants to breathe second hand smoke, if you're smoking or not.

What's shocking is the listing of poisons contained into cigarettes. And i don't agree too much with that, i explain.
First off all, tobacco is a plant isn't it ??????? so how can you find soooooo many poisons in a plant eh ? 😉 So when it was discovered, one can say it was not poison charged at all.
With its evolution, smoking was considered in many ways, going from classy to rebel and other things, but NEVER it danger was showed ( just check if you have an occasion adverts from 50's in the US ) . Pure hypocrites.

So after listing your poisons one question cames to mind : how the biggest tobacco producer ( US ) can in the same way selling so much tobacco, and on the other hand trying to say : don't smoke it's dangerous ?????
Can someone find a good explanation please ?????

With all it's danger, producing and selling cigarettes will never be forbidden i think. That's totally non sense.

 

[AphroditeRabbit]

No there aren't all those poisons in the original plant (although it also made people sick), they are added to the cigarette in the making process. (You honestly think that nicotine is natural in them?) That list was provided by the cigarette companies themselves. That is something you cannot dispute.

They HAVE to say don't smoke, it's dangerous, they have to give a warning label with their products now.

 

[jrubicante]

The tobacco industry is just plain evil. The only good things the tobacco industry do for the community are things the government forces it to do. They're just out to use the addictive nature of their product to make money, and regardless of what smoking fans might tell you, yes, they do market to children. I'm in favor of adding government sanction upon government sanction until all these tobacco companies are driven out of business.

Think of all the money we could spend on things other than:
- hospital costs for lung cancer patients
- frivilous lawsuits
- making cigarettes
- making ashtrays
- "no smoking" signs
- programs to help people quit smoking
- programs to increase smoking danger awareness

I don't even understand why there's an argument here. If you smoke, you probably either:
- got hooked in your teens because cigarettes looked cool
- got hooked in your 20s or 30s while trying to deal with your midlife crisis

And if you still smoke, it's because one of the following is true:
- you don't care about how miserable you'll be at the end of your life
- you're an amateur bullfighter and don't expect to live beyond 30 anyway
- you don't have the willpower to quit
- you are under the illusion that smoking isn't that bad for you

alf: Smoking prevention programs are half-hearted because the tobacco companies are forced to make them. There's no other way a company in their right mind would try to convince people not to use their product. If Phillip Morris were really interested in people's health they would not make commercials against smoking, they would stop selling cigarettes, because the Phillip Morris chain is so huge that if they completely stopped selling tobacco today, they would still be making money (after you consider that people would stop hitting them with lawsuits).

 

[nessonite1]

tobacco by itself isn't a poisinous plant. There ARE many many plants that are naturally poisinous though (think poisin ivy, etc), alf.
Anyway...even if your cigarette had nothing in it but pure dried crushed tobacco plant in it it is STILL no good for you to be inhaling smoke.
If someone stumbles out of a house fire he is taken to the hospital to recover from smoke inhalation...he doesn't shout "Boy, that was great!". 😛

 

[SheDevil1]

Technically marijuana is considered a toxic plant. They list it as a "noxious weed". Same with Peyote Cactus, and poppy plants, which humans use to get high. The poison is supposed to be a defense mechanish - a hungry animal comes to eat, gets messed up, and isn't supposed to want anymore. However, my cat doesn't seem to hate opium...