After having posted about how concerned I am that this "scandal" is going to affect availability of new material, I feel compelled to in some way voice how bad I feel for Sarah Kozer/Cindy Schubert. Yes, she's an adult, did the bondage/fetish work voluntarily (apparently had misgivings enough that she refused to appear topless), etc etc but the bottom line is, I suspect she never expected to ahve this plastered all over the national news. I'd guess when the "Joe Millionaire" thing came up, she though about her past and naively assumed this stuff wouldn't surface. Now she's reduced to telling callers to her home "this is a shared line" - which I interpreted to mean there are people she lives with who didn't know about her past (they do now!). Can't imagine the pain ad misery she must be goign through. For those of us who are not open, can you imagine havign it plastered all over the news? What's it gonna be like for her when she goes to that first family wedding or function after the news breaks. Or the first time a wiseass spots her in public and yells "Loved your work in 'Abused and Tickled'". All in all, her situation reminds me of Monica Lewinsky, did something (arguably something foolish) that she thought would remain forever private and now is a national source of ridicule. Maybe I'm naive but I said a prayer for her today.
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Sympathy for Sarah/Cindy.
- Thread starter sceej56
- Start date
Addendum
It's probably bad form to be the first to reply to your own thread, but I cannot beleive our "responsible press" actually called the chick's father and asked him if he knew his daughter was a bondage model? Nice way to find out, eh?
It's probably bad form to be the first to reply to your own thread, but I cannot beleive our "responsible press" actually called the chick's father and asked him if he knew his daughter was a bondage model? Nice way to find out, eh?
I feel somewhat sorry for her...but not much, considering the fact that she even CHOSE to appear in one of those putrid "reality" shows. Hers was a greed-fueled search for big bucks and 15 minutes of narcissistic whatever. The whole episode has taken a more "real" twist than even its shallow producers could have envisioned (ya want reality, here's some REALITY!).
If anything, I feel sorry for her family, because they have been dragged into this thing by a press that is utterly devoid of morals.
If anything, I feel sorry for her family, because they have been dragged into this thing by a press that is utterly devoid of morals.
Darkknight
4th Level Yellow Feather
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I'm mixed on how I feel for her. Look at the show she chose to be in, "try to win the guy with the big bucks". Her remarks on the show show she has a need for greed.
I doubt this publicity is hurting her, only helping her in the future. The only people I would feel bad for are the dad and mom.
I can't believe they called her dad. Get your face in the limelight and all your skeletons are coming out.
I'm screwed with all the tickle videos I have. Hence I will stick to wearing my mask. 😉
DK
I doubt this publicity is hurting her, only helping her in the future. The only people I would feel bad for are the dad and mom.
I can't believe they called her dad. Get your face in the limelight and all your skeletons are coming out.
I'm screwed with all the tickle videos I have. Hence I will stick to wearing my mask. 😉
DK
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Oddjob0226
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I kind of feel bad for her too. There are SO many worse things out there, and for a consenting adult to do something that a lot of people are doing behind closed doors, for such a tiny niche video market, and to suppliment your income doing it, I think a lot of the nasty stuff being said is harsh. But really, I'm surprised (and thankfull) that there really isn't that much nasty stuff being said - it all seems more to be bemusement and winking.
As far as her,or anyone, being on that show, there are clear gold-diggers there. But if someone were to come to me and say... we want you to be on t.v.....
O.K.
And you're going to meet a good looking woman who has been screened....
o.k.
And she's rich.....
I would certainly be tempted. Money isn't what it's all about, but it is an attractive thing, and ads to the bigger picture of a pretty person with a good personality. Some people can resist temptation better than others.
But.... consider. How naive or dumb is she really? Think, perhaps, just maybe, she was hand-picked, is contractually guaranteed to win, and a 'scandal' might help sell the show, and advance Evan's & Sara's careers? They're both young beautiful people from Hollywood, after all. And I noticed a funny bit of editing a few weeks ago, with the butler saying in a close shot that there was one girl left to win the last necklace. Cut to the girls. Cut to Evan. Cut back to Paul the butler in a medium shot, holding a tray with 3 necklaces still on it while announcing the "last" chosen girl. Hmmm.... a continuity error, or a retake? How real is this reality show actually? Perhaps Sara's FM work was known and helped the producers clinch it in deciding to chose her. I wouldn't be surprised if the butler owned the big house.
As far as her,or anyone, being on that show, there are clear gold-diggers there. But if someone were to come to me and say... we want you to be on t.v.....
O.K.
And you're going to meet a good looking woman who has been screened....
o.k.
And she's rich.....
I would certainly be tempted. Money isn't what it's all about, but it is an attractive thing, and ads to the bigger picture of a pretty person with a good personality. Some people can resist temptation better than others.
But.... consider. How naive or dumb is she really? Think, perhaps, just maybe, she was hand-picked, is contractually guaranteed to win, and a 'scandal' might help sell the show, and advance Evan's & Sara's careers? They're both young beautiful people from Hollywood, after all. And I noticed a funny bit of editing a few weeks ago, with the butler saying in a close shot that there was one girl left to win the last necklace. Cut to the girls. Cut to Evan. Cut back to Paul the butler in a medium shot, holding a tray with 3 necklaces still on it while announcing the "last" chosen girl. Hmmm.... a continuity error, or a retake? How real is this reality show actually? Perhaps Sara's FM work was known and helped the producers clinch it in deciding to chose her. I wouldn't be surprised if the butler owned the big house.
bticklishfeet
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I feel sorry for her parents🙁 the press handled this like they almost always do! Gotta get that story! Yeah that is their job, but they could have a conscious and think how they would feel if it were their daughter.
As for her going after Joe for the money, to me that is just wrong! What does she think that the money is gonna buy her happiness! I mean get real!🙄
As for her going after Joe for the money, to me that is just wrong! What does she think that the money is gonna buy her happiness! I mean get real!🙄
Jamandi
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I also feel sorry for her. Calling her father is going way over the line. Even though it can be argued that going on a show like Joe Millionaire and not wanting her past to come out is not the brightest idea, but would you put the blame on a person that was robbed for having money sticking out of his pocket or the robber? Just my small perspective.
-Jamandi-
-Jamandi-
Oddjob0226
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Honestly, I think this "scandal" was planned. Fox airs the show & it was Fox News that had the 1st post-scandal interview with Sara, AND at that time she was wearing a diamond pendant..... could she 'already be a winner?' Her and Evan both did modeling; often people in the mainstream video market will crew fetish & porn shoots under different names to make extra money. I could see the proiducers of this show also involved with the FM videos in some way, and Joe Millionaire being used to boost their careers.
I think this show was cast, it was designed to be a soap opera, and calling it "reality t.v." doesn't make it so.
I think this show was cast, it was designed to be a soap opera, and calling it "reality t.v." doesn't make it so.
TickledToDeath
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No sympathy what-so-ever!
TTD
TTD
MistressMia
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oddjob has a pretty good theory and I can almost buy it. I don't take what I read or see on tv as 100% truth.
I have to agree with TTD, I don't feel any sympathy for her what-so-ever either.😕
I have to agree with TTD, I don't feel any sympathy for her what-so-ever either.😕
Oddjob0226
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Uh oh..... I hope when some of the folks on the TMF get picked for their seat on the Supreme Court or their role in the film remake of, let's say, Howard the Duck, some of these NEST/CHEST-type gathering photos don't become public; sounds like there won't be a lot of support from within the group.
I knew a woman who did a tickling video and still does tickling sessions who dated Evan, so I have a bit of inside info on the boy. And there are a few things on this show that just don't jibe, "plot" developments, if you will (like Sara saying 'one of these girls is going to have to leave and that's a difficult thing to deal with', as if she already knew it wouldn't be her) and a few things in editing. I'd be real surprised if this show wasn't set up somehow or strings are being pulled in some way. They already had a mainstream porn scandal involving one of the Survivor participants; I can see Fox taking it a step further. Creppy still gets people talking and boosts ratings. The Hannibal Lector films do almost as good as the latest Star Wars films. It's an interesting puzzle.
I knew a woman who did a tickling video and still does tickling sessions who dated Evan, so I have a bit of inside info on the boy. And there are a few things on this show that just don't jibe, "plot" developments, if you will (like Sara saying 'one of these girls is going to have to leave and that's a difficult thing to deal with', as if she already knew it wouldn't be her) and a few things in editing. I'd be real surprised if this show wasn't set up somehow or strings are being pulled in some way. They already had a mainstream porn scandal involving one of the Survivor participants; I can see Fox taking it a step further. Creppy still gets people talking and boosts ratings. The Hannibal Lector films do almost as good as the latest Star Wars films. It's an interesting puzzle.
Oddjob0226
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Jamandi said:
I think it would be a case where a past porn career would ONLY help!
Viva ILM!
I just don’t like the fact that it was one of us who did it. Not only did he do it, but he callously planned it, and waited for the right time to turn the tapes over. And he bragged about waiting till the right moment to do it. Yeah she chose to do it, and I have no problem with that. But the fact that this guy is taking such pride and joy in what is literally “trashing a persons career and life” bothers me. Don’t be proud of yourself Westchester because karma has a way of smacking you in the back. To me what you did is not cool. Many here may think that you were cool for doing it. But all you did was do irreparable harm to a woman’s life. That is something most people would not find pride in.
Oddjob0226
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I had no idea that it was one of us. Never heard about it until now. Was there a reason why (financial, etc?)
rajee
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Sarah seems to be a worldly type woman. I am sure she didn't volunteer to be in a reality television show naively or blindly. I am sure the thought of her time in fetish videos being publicized came across her mind once. Her mother and her seem to be fine with it. Besides what kind of journalism ethics can we expect from entertainment gossip programs. This is a long shot but maybe she is increasing her publicity and the publicity of fetish videos so she can do more of them at a higher salary.I think this whole thing bothers a lot of us here because the goal of every human being is to feel accepted and normal. Just when you start to get comfortable abou yourself and your fetish, this comes alomng and you witness the disgust some people view it with, and it obviously hurts. You're slammed back down to shame, until you gather the strength to stand up again. Of course it was probably planned, she's been in several videos, someone somewhere will put two and two together. But when a Playboy centerfold makes it big, there isn't that level of disgust that accompanies foot fetish or tickling videos or magazines.
The other day at work a few people were talking about a crazy foot fetish guy in Baton Rouge who was doing like that dumbass "foot-licker" mentioned here a while back. They were talking about him like he was a freak of nature, a sub-human I felt that much lower for the rest of the day. (Of course, all I had to do was come here, and read the thread where people are offering love and support for slave4tickles, and see that we are a lot better than most people.) Yes, that dude should control himself, and people like him continue to give us a bad name, but I've seen guys leer at women's breasts or ass and then start making comments about them as graphic as can be. I've seen and heard guys tell women how they want to have sex with them in detail, and the women getting offended and walking away, and the guys getting slap on the back from their friends. But that doesn't make the news! There isn't the level of disgust we encounter, and that's why many of us have to remain secret.
I'm still waiting for that proverbial guy or girl who saves residents of burning nursing home from a fiery death humbly announcing he's a proud member of the tickling forum, and everybody cheering and saying what great and charitable people these ticklephiles are, but that day will never come.
The other day at work a few people were talking about a crazy foot fetish guy in Baton Rouge who was doing like that dumbass "foot-licker" mentioned here a while back. They were talking about him like he was a freak of nature, a sub-human I felt that much lower for the rest of the day. (Of course, all I had to do was come here, and read the thread where people are offering love and support for slave4tickles, and see that we are a lot better than most people.) Yes, that dude should control himself, and people like him continue to give us a bad name, but I've seen guys leer at women's breasts or ass and then start making comments about them as graphic as can be. I've seen and heard guys tell women how they want to have sex with them in detail, and the women getting offended and walking away, and the guys getting slap on the back from their friends. But that doesn't make the news! There isn't the level of disgust we encounter, and that's why many of us have to remain secret.
I'm still waiting for that proverbial guy or girl who saves residents of burning nursing home from a fiery death humbly announcing he's a proud member of the tickling forum, and everybody cheering and saying what great and charitable people these ticklephiles are, but that day will never come.
Yes Oddjob. It was one of us who is gloating about doing it. Weather he thinks this makes him big in the community or not, the fact is he just added a nail into the coffin. Here are some transcripts of what he is posting in the newsgroup.
From: Westchester T ([email protected])Subject: Re: "Joe Millionaire's" Sarah Kozer has done tickling,bondage,foot fetish
They could have broken this story over a week before Smoking Gun. I called Access Hollywood and the Enquirer and both were too cautious with the story, wanting to be 100% sure it was really her. In the end, Access Hollywood got the footage from me that they used on Thursday night's broadcast - but by then Smoking Gun was 24 hours ahead of the them, and the NY Daily News and Post had already printed the stories that morning. The videos I sent them were Agony of DeFeet, Stocking Seraglio (the stocking/non-tickling segment they used), No Shoes No Mercy (the nurses scene that got a LOT of airtime) and Laugh & Laugh Again. It was great to see a prolonged tickling scene on network TV!
- Westchester Tickler
After helping to get tickling clips on the air in Prime Time on a network, I'd like everyone to be able to revel in it! The whole angle on Sarah/Cindy was "bondage films" and tickling was hardly mentioned until Access Hollywood aired the clips I sent. It was great to see so much aired on the segment Thursday night.
- Westchester Tickler
Well, All I can see is I hope something like this never happens to him. We really don’t know what this has done to her at work. I am sure she is getting crap from her co-workers. I am sure her boss’ have talked to her about her responsibility on appearance as she is reflecting her company to each person that she deals with in her work. Not to mention that national TV is calling her Dad, who didn’t know about it. It was on three network shows and the cover of the N.Y. Times. You may be proud but you did an unethical action. Like I said earlier-Karma has a way of smacking you in the face. I hope when it comes after you that you are able to live with it.
From: Westchester T ([email protected])Subject: Re: "Joe Millionaire's" Sarah Kozer has done tickling,bondage,foot fetish
They could have broken this story over a week before Smoking Gun. I called Access Hollywood and the Enquirer and both were too cautious with the story, wanting to be 100% sure it was really her. In the end, Access Hollywood got the footage from me that they used on Thursday night's broadcast - but by then Smoking Gun was 24 hours ahead of the them, and the NY Daily News and Post had already printed the stories that morning. The videos I sent them were Agony of DeFeet, Stocking Seraglio (the stocking/non-tickling segment they used), No Shoes No Mercy (the nurses scene that got a LOT of airtime) and Laugh & Laugh Again. It was great to see a prolonged tickling scene on network TV!
- Westchester Tickler
After helping to get tickling clips on the air in Prime Time on a network, I'd like everyone to be able to revel in it! The whole angle on Sarah/Cindy was "bondage films" and tickling was hardly mentioned until Access Hollywood aired the clips I sent. It was great to see so much aired on the segment Thursday night.
- Westchester Tickler
Well, All I can see is I hope something like this never happens to him. We really don’t know what this has done to her at work. I am sure she is getting crap from her co-workers. I am sure her boss’ have talked to her about her responsibility on appearance as she is reflecting her company to each person that she deals with in her work. Not to mention that national TV is calling her Dad, who didn’t know about it. It was on three network shows and the cover of the N.Y. Times. You may be proud but you did an unethical action. Like I said earlier-Karma has a way of smacking you in the face. I hope when it comes after you that you are able to live with it.
I don't really sympathize for this girl. She's a big girl. She was paid and paid well by FM. She's got to deal with it. It's not the end of the world for her. Like was mentioned, her phone will ring off the hook now with offers. She's made it!
Threads like this are such good bait for people like me! I ignore them, then BAM, one day I can't resist and I'm reading it and feeling the need to respond! 😛
I have SUCH difficulty believing that a major television network didn't do a thorough background check on these girls prior to filming. Hello? What if their winner turns out to be a pedophile, or a bank robber, or a murderer? Feel sure of yourselves that when whomever "blew the whistle," it had already been known blasted from the inside first. This is a good premise for a show given the number of people disgusted with the Bachelor's weepy females. It's a gimmick. Who fell? The people who think that Cindy/Sarah's secret was really a secret. This show had more millions associated with it than ol' Joe was supposed to have. Doubtful they would risk even one of 'em.🙄
As far as sympathy goes...
Nope. Why?
This is a grown woman. She made a choice to do a few kinky things in front of the camera. Like Regis Philbin said this morning....She made a few silly little fetish films. Who cares? That's pretty much America's take once the t.v. goes off. It's not like fetishes are new. Everyone knows about 'em. Most adults know there are flicks about 'em. So, some chick on a show made one. *oohhhhhhh*
🙄
She'll use her fame to become the next big porn queen, she'll write a book, you'll all go out and buy her next tickling video, "Joe Millionaire's Tickle Slave." She'll have a cult following the size of Manhattan and in a couple of years her own late night talk show about sexuality. I want to be her agent! SHEESH~!!! And frankly....the press didn't hurt her parents. SHE did.
What's to feel sorry for?
JOBY
I have SUCH difficulty believing that a major television network didn't do a thorough background check on these girls prior to filming. Hello? What if their winner turns out to be a pedophile, or a bank robber, or a murderer? Feel sure of yourselves that when whomever "blew the whistle," it had already been known blasted from the inside first. This is a good premise for a show given the number of people disgusted with the Bachelor's weepy females. It's a gimmick. Who fell? The people who think that Cindy/Sarah's secret was really a secret. This show had more millions associated with it than ol' Joe was supposed to have. Doubtful they would risk even one of 'em.🙄
As far as sympathy goes...
Nope. Why?
This is a grown woman. She made a choice to do a few kinky things in front of the camera. Like Regis Philbin said this morning....She made a few silly little fetish films. Who cares? That's pretty much America's take once the t.v. goes off. It's not like fetishes are new. Everyone knows about 'em. Most adults know there are flicks about 'em. So, some chick on a show made one. *oohhhhhhh*
🙄 She'll use her fame to become the next big porn queen, she'll write a book, you'll all go out and buy her next tickling video, "Joe Millionaire's Tickle Slave." She'll have a cult following the size of Manhattan and in a couple of years her own late night talk show about sexuality. I want to be her agent! SHEESH~!!! And frankly....the press didn't hurt her parents. SHE did.
What's to feel sorry for?
JOBY
vegasfootboy
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no reality in reality shows
oddjob had the right idea when he questioned how real the reality shows actually are,, i have first hand experience here,, in 1993 i was on the love connection,, you know? the one with chuck woolery? anyway, the show i was part of had 3 dates,, but when we were getting ready for the show after the dates, a producer visited each and every contestant and worked with them on what they were to say,, they were afraid some people wouldnt have anything entertaining to say, that wasnt the case with me, they actually liked my line.... ( the way to a womans heart is through her feet ) lol chuck liked that one lol! anyway the big problem was that all three dates resulted in " love connections" all three dates went so well that all 3 couples dated even after the show ( i lived with my connection for a year ) but love isnt a good ratings booster,, hate and anger are,, so would you believe it? they actually got one of the couples to pretend they hated each other? the gave them small scripts to memorize! i couldnt believe it lol! but its true,, same thing with the first survivor remember? the lawsuit? that girl who the producers influenced the other contestants to vote off?? there is no reality its all scripted and written out,,so i wouldnt doubt that the girl on joe millionair already knew about her fetish work being exposed,, these producers check everyone out with a fine tooth comb before they sign them to do the show,, they knew and so sis she,, heck! she even went on that smoking gun show,, if she was so embarassed being on that show diddnt help make people forget what the saw, it reinforced it! this is publicity that any actress would die for,, she knew it would give her a boost in her career,,, another 15 min of fame stretched to a week is all
oddjob had the right idea when he questioned how real the reality shows actually are,, i have first hand experience here,, in 1993 i was on the love connection,, you know? the one with chuck woolery? anyway, the show i was part of had 3 dates,, but when we were getting ready for the show after the dates, a producer visited each and every contestant and worked with them on what they were to say,, they were afraid some people wouldnt have anything entertaining to say, that wasnt the case with me, they actually liked my line.... ( the way to a womans heart is through her feet ) lol chuck liked that one lol! anyway the big problem was that all three dates resulted in " love connections" all three dates went so well that all 3 couples dated even after the show ( i lived with my connection for a year ) but love isnt a good ratings booster,, hate and anger are,, so would you believe it? they actually got one of the couples to pretend they hated each other? the gave them small scripts to memorize! i couldnt believe it lol! but its true,, same thing with the first survivor remember? the lawsuit? that girl who the producers influenced the other contestants to vote off?? there is no reality its all scripted and written out,,so i wouldnt doubt that the girl on joe millionair already knew about her fetish work being exposed,, these producers check everyone out with a fine tooth comb before they sign them to do the show,, they knew and so sis she,, heck! she even went on that smoking gun show,, if she was so embarassed being on that show diddnt help make people forget what the saw, it reinforced it! this is publicity that any actress would die for,, she knew it would give her a boost in her career,,, another 15 min of fame stretched to a week is all
