Haltickling
2nd Level Green Feather
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2001
- Messages
- 4,353
- Points
- 0
Thanks to all for your help, folks. Especially shark's reply was very enlightening. If I got it right, the Americans consider gun-carrying as one of their basic constitutional rights to defend their other rights, have I got that that correct? Nothing to object to, of course.
Still, I'd like to clear up a few misunderstandings about Europe here which are probably shared by many Americans. The European Union is democratically controlled by the people in two different ways: The European Parliament (who does all the EU-legislation) is elected directly by the people, and the governments of countries which form the EU are elected separately, also directly by the different nations' people. All European laws have to be agreed upon unanimously by all EU nations, a mere majority vote isn't enough. If any EU nation objects to a new law, the law has to be changed to fit ALL, or it won't get passed. Unlike in the UN, each member has a veto right thus. Moreover, we have an independent European Court of Justice to make sure that the European Parliament or a member state doesn't usurp rights they don't have.
The common currency was one of those questions not all member states agreed upon. So it was changed to an option, not an EU-wide law. Most EU nations chose to give up their old currencies for undisputed advantages in international trade, both within the community and with other non-EU-states. For the first time in history since the Roman Empire, almost all Europeans are able to travel through MANY countries, without border controls, and using the same money. Imagine if you had to pass border controls whenever crossing a state border in US, let alone using 50 different currencies! Unthinkable!
We don't squawk at Denmark and the UK because they didn't participate in the Euro. However, we consider this an obstacle to further welding Europe together.
No nation had to give up its independence. The laws from country to country differ much more than the laws between US states. But you, too, know federal law which applies to all US-States. That's what all the European legislature is about. We are still trying to create one single strong voice in the international concert, instead of 15 small voices, but that's for the future.
Japan has applied a law and order system which right-wing politicians in Europe and the US can only dream about! Still, it's done and justified by democracy. They DO have free elections in Japan!
You are right to distrust politicians, shark. But IMO, a democratic society has other possibilities to exert control over them. A strong democracy, honestly supported by the people, doesn't need guns to control the government. And there's the free press. But I know you hate THEM, too, as they are controlled by socialists in your opinion… Anyway, not everything that differs from the American way or its current republican politics is automatically socialistic! 😛
Thank you, Strelnikov, for pointing out the reasons for gun-banning in Europe and Australia. Nevertheless, none of the nations which banned guns felt the need to re-establish guns for citizens in 50-100 years of democratic elections.
Russia has only become a half-hearted democracy a decade ago. They have a severe crime problem now, apart from huge economical problems. For them, the only way to tell mafia from harmless citizens is to search them for a gun. No citizen was ever allowed a gun in their long history; nevertheless, the revolutionaries in 1917 had guns in abundance, as big parts of the army and navy sided with them.
As to the Swiss example: No Swiss citizen is allowed to CARRY a gun in public, concealed or not, except policemen, ACTIVE army members on duty, and a token few who need extremely convincing reasons to get a permit (the same applies to the rest of Europe). Swiss reservists indeed have the duty to keep their uniforms and guns at home, but they are denied the right to wear a gun in public (hence probably the invention of the Swiss army knife…😀).
As I said before, I didn't intend or expect to change anybody's attitude on gun laws. Just pointing out that, as usual, there are other, equally valid opinions about this.
Still, I'd like to clear up a few misunderstandings about Europe here which are probably shared by many Americans. The European Union is democratically controlled by the people in two different ways: The European Parliament (who does all the EU-legislation) is elected directly by the people, and the governments of countries which form the EU are elected separately, also directly by the different nations' people. All European laws have to be agreed upon unanimously by all EU nations, a mere majority vote isn't enough. If any EU nation objects to a new law, the law has to be changed to fit ALL, or it won't get passed. Unlike in the UN, each member has a veto right thus. Moreover, we have an independent European Court of Justice to make sure that the European Parliament or a member state doesn't usurp rights they don't have.
The common currency was one of those questions not all member states agreed upon. So it was changed to an option, not an EU-wide law. Most EU nations chose to give up their old currencies for undisputed advantages in international trade, both within the community and with other non-EU-states. For the first time in history since the Roman Empire, almost all Europeans are able to travel through MANY countries, without border controls, and using the same money. Imagine if you had to pass border controls whenever crossing a state border in US, let alone using 50 different currencies! Unthinkable!
We don't squawk at Denmark and the UK because they didn't participate in the Euro. However, we consider this an obstacle to further welding Europe together.
No nation had to give up its independence. The laws from country to country differ much more than the laws between US states. But you, too, know federal law which applies to all US-States. That's what all the European legislature is about. We are still trying to create one single strong voice in the international concert, instead of 15 small voices, but that's for the future.
Japan has applied a law and order system which right-wing politicians in Europe and the US can only dream about! Still, it's done and justified by democracy. They DO have free elections in Japan!
You are right to distrust politicians, shark. But IMO, a democratic society has other possibilities to exert control over them. A strong democracy, honestly supported by the people, doesn't need guns to control the government. And there's the free press. But I know you hate THEM, too, as they are controlled by socialists in your opinion… Anyway, not everything that differs from the American way or its current republican politics is automatically socialistic! 😛
Thank you, Strelnikov, for pointing out the reasons for gun-banning in Europe and Australia. Nevertheless, none of the nations which banned guns felt the need to re-establish guns for citizens in 50-100 years of democratic elections.
Russia has only become a half-hearted democracy a decade ago. They have a severe crime problem now, apart from huge economical problems. For them, the only way to tell mafia from harmless citizens is to search them for a gun. No citizen was ever allowed a gun in their long history; nevertheless, the revolutionaries in 1917 had guns in abundance, as big parts of the army and navy sided with them.
As to the Swiss example: No Swiss citizen is allowed to CARRY a gun in public, concealed or not, except policemen, ACTIVE army members on duty, and a token few who need extremely convincing reasons to get a permit (the same applies to the rest of Europe). Swiss reservists indeed have the duty to keep their uniforms and guns at home, but they are denied the right to wear a gun in public (hence probably the invention of the Swiss army knife…😀).
As I said before, I didn't intend or expect to change anybody's attitude on gun laws. Just pointing out that, as usual, there are other, equally valid opinions about this.
