The American SS

[lollercaust]

Your politics are one sided and I know you have atleast lost my backing in listening to what you say.

Isn't ignoring his point of view due to his party affiliation just as foolish as his insistence on party affiliation? You're essentially discounting his entire point of view, even though he may be completely correct, just because you don't like the way he's arguing his beliefs. That's not very wise either.

There are plenty of solid, economics-based reasons for scrapping social security and going to a new system, several of which have been outlined on page 1 of this very debate and none of which have to do with party affiliation. Virtually everyone in America except for the Democratic leadership (this isn't party politics, merely observation) can see for themselves that social security is not solvent in its current form and needs to be changed. Yet a few at the top of the power chain, backed by op-ed writers from the New York Times and others, stubbornly insist that there's nothing wrong with it.

I would suggest that, if partisanship is putting a bad taste in your mouth, you read page 1 of this thread and the link that Val put up, rather than simply assuming that someone is wrong because he favors one party or the other.

 

[naveltkltr1350]

I would suggest that, if partisanship is putting a bad taste in your mouth, you read page 1 of this thread and the link that Val put up, rather than simply assuming that someone is wrong because he favors one party or the other.

She isnt saying that he is wrong for choosing his party..she says he is wrong cause he sees no wrong doing In what his party does. He has all his rights to choose a party as does anyone else and to defend it, but you do need to look that everyone is at fault for america becoming a lesser dominate country in economy. Hell were I live..Just this past month we lost Ford and Lithonia(a huge manufacturer of lighting products) thats a lot of income we are losing. Northern Ohio will be run down and poor within the next 10 years. Cleveland is already the Poorest large city in America ontop of the most depressed. We are constantly losing jobs to China, Japan, Korea, Mexico, Canada and so on. Bush did allow for companies to go to china if i recall. Glad we got a president workin with China so that we wont have any jobs left. I guess thats why he wants to get rid of SS..we will have no jobs to pay into the SS. ...In my opinion..Politicans are bigger assholes than me..and they lie like no other.. I hate Politics..im not sure why i really got into this..other than to defend my girls POV of KyHawkeye. KYH and I have got along for a while..We are just pointing out that he sees no wrong doing of the Republican Party..its all the Dems fault..oh well..glad im not a politician..id of probably shot myself already.

 

[lollercaust]

Admirable job jumping to your woman's defense, but you made the same mistake that she's angry about - you managed to steer the discussion from social security to how much you dislike Bush, as if that gives some kind of credence to your side of the argument.

And yes, it may be that Hawk doesn't see any flaws with the Republican party, but how does that affect whether or not his perception of Social Security is accurate? He might believe the right thing, even if for the wrong reasons (e.g. because the Republicans favor privatization, rather than because privatization is a demonstrably better option from a financial point of view) but he still believes the right thing. I abhor blind partisanship as much as anyone, for the record, but the fact that someone happens to be a partisan doesn't automatically make them wrong.

 

[AphroditeRabbit]

Isn't ignoring his point of view due to his party affiliation just as foolish as his insistence on party affiliation? You're essentially discounting his entire point of view, even though he may be completely correct, just because you don't like the way he's arguing his beliefs. That's not very wise either.

-laughs- I'm not ignoring his point of view, I recognize what he said. The whole point of my discussions was pointing out how stupid it is to call people names, especially a whole group of people. I am taking what he says now with a grain of salt BECAUSE of how he presents himself.

There are plenty of solid, economics-based reasons for scrapping social security and going to a new system, several of which have been outlined on page 1 of this very debate and none of which have to do with party affiliation. Virtually everyone in America except for the Democratic leadership (this isn't party politics, merely observation) can see for themselves that social security is not solvent in its current form and needs to be changed. Yet a few at the top of the power chain, backed by op-ed writers from the New York Times and others, stubbornly insist that there's nothing wrong with it.

I would suggest that, if partisanship is putting a bad taste in your mouth, you read page 1 of this thread and the link that Val put up, rather than simply assuming that someone is wrong because he favors one party or the other.

I didn't assume he was wrong at all actually. You'll have to notice that many people said the same thing he did and I said nothing about it. They presented point of views without name calling. Just for future reference my father is a democrat and feels that social security needs to be changed. It's why I point out IN THE FIRST PLACE why it's pointless to group them all into something that not all are in. It is not the wrong point to be favoring a party, most people do. But to assume things is wrong. That was my point of everything. I have not even addressed how I feel about the social security issue actually.
And yes thank you, I have already read page one and the link Val put up. I don't need a further reference. 🙂

 

[naveltkltr1350]

Admirable job jumping to your woman's defense, but you made the same mistake that she's angry about - you managed to steer the discussion from social security to how much you dislike Bush, as if that gives some kind of credence to your side of the argument.

And yes, it may be that Hawk doesn't see any flaws with the Republican party, but how does that affect whether or not his perception of Social Security is accurate? He might believe the right thing, even if for the wrong reasons (e.g. because the Republicans favor privatization, rather than because privatization is a demonstrably better option from a financial point of view) but he still believes the right thing. I abhor blind partisanship as much as anyone, for the record, but the fact that someone happens to be a partisan doesn't automatically make them wrong.

actually..I didnt see the past presidents wanting to cut out the SS..Just Dubya. I mean..Hes made some good moves as a prez..but cutting out SS is not one of the best moves. Yes we've had in the past presidencies more republican than democrat and im not saying they dem's are the jewels of the gov't cause really, they all Lie like muthaf*ckers. I never said KY was wrong..but all he really wants to do is bash dems and say how great republicans are. Thats my only concern..lets see how far we go in the next few years with republicans in office..since neither side agrees anymore on any subjects...Its not even worth paying into the ss anymore if we are just gonna get rid of it...basically..im throwing my paycheck away to something that will not return in my favor. Yay! sounds exactly like our welfare system. I throw money into it so people can be lazy f*cks and not do anywork at all. Anyways..why pay into something that I wont ever see?? Sounds like a scam..like I said..Liars..Crooks = american politicians. Yay! Anyways.. I seen a two on one attack on my girl..of course imma jump in, silly...thats my girl, Im definately defending her with all I got. No matter the cost. Thanks for seeing it as admirable. :happy:

 

[lollercaust]

Well, social security has been on many conservatives' hit lists for some time. One of the main conservative talking points is a smaller Federal government, which makes sense; most of us probably don't trust the government, so the less of it there is, the better. Along that line of thought, why bother giving the government your money to handle if you could give it to someone else instead? Past presidents have favored cutting social security, it just hasn't been feasible prior to now. (And I don't know if it's all that feasible now with as much clout as the AARP has; don't get me started on that one. The AARP won't vote for something that's a good idea, they'll vote for what benefits their members, who favor social security because they'll all be dead soon. Acting in one's own interest rather than in the interests of the group is one of the major things that causes inefficiency in democracies.)

At any rate, I don't really give a hoot one way or the other in this debate, because I plan to save enough money to retire no matter what shape social security is in. I just like to argue.

 

[AphroditeRabbit]

-laughs- That's the way to do it man...wasen't there a x-files saying about that? Trust no one? Yeah something like that. I would rather depend on myself than big brother.

 

[uttahcee1]

Kyhawkeye if you think that our country is safer you so wrong, Let's start a war with no true allies to fight with, and let's give tax cuts too. and let's keep on borrowing money from china and let's get in a bidding war with them over oil to get the terrorists more money to attack us, oh by the way Bin lauden looks well rested and fat if you haven't notice,Afganastan now leads the free world in producing opium for herion to push on america's and by the way I voted republican all my life I constantly voted against Kerry every election since 1984. But George W Bush Is An Idoit spelt wrong on purpose I-DO-IT

 

[jj82277]

Bin Lauden- the most inexperienced chess player goes directly for the opponents queen. there was a term for it on an m i b cartoon. I don't have any problem with the concept behind destroying the terror network as he and his advisors see it.

no true allies- that in my oppinion has been shown to be because they were protecting their own politicall interests. And i actually had a conspiracy theory for the longest time that if we did find WMD with a proverbial made in france/germany/russia tag on it that we would probably strike some political accord with them to avoid world war 3. and lets not forgett that in this particular case that we didn't really need them. I think that it would have been a greater alliance with the other members of NATO, but i applaud my president for not waiting for other countries to protect me.

Tax cuts- any good advisor of success knows that if you want something to happen you have to set the goal first, and hen meet it. I feel that he is setting the stage for balancing the budget with the tax cuts in place. he put that on hold and paid the taxpayers first. i have absolutely no problem with that. If more americans paid themselves first i don't thjink i would have been prompted to start this thread. i am fully confident that the Grand Old Party will follow that agenda to fruition.

Tax cuts to the wealthy. the reason that tax cuts appear to go mostly to the wealthy is because they pay most of the taxes. I mean i think the number is the top 20% of the country pays 80% of the taxes. now i don't think that you should tax the middle class to death or anything don't get me wrong, but with the tax bills that those guys pay well you get the picture. and there is no such thing as limited means. 230 years ago next july 56 men risked their lives and sacraficed the bloood of so many so that we in the states would all have any oppurtunity to persue however much succes as we wanted. If you want to buy a euro car then choose to do so and you will. just ask napoleon hill.

and lets not forgett that the left around the world is beginning to see that the triumphalist neo con may have been ight, and that's a quote. I remember a time in which both sides were united in the spread of Deomocracy to everyone. I think that Billl Maher could not be further from the truth when he gets together with the treasoner ( i hope that's a word) in front of a relative of a 9/11 victim and purport the idea that there is a logicall reason for other people to hate us or to kill us in thousands. There is no greater expression than the one we so richly take for granted in this country in my oppinion and that is to vote. If i could not go to the poles or freely express my incoherant ranting on forums like this im sure that i would become part of some radicall grouup and blow stuff up, just do the math. I think that the developments in the Middle east are going to prove 20 and 30 years from ow to be a turning point in world history, i just hope that the dems don't sweep in for the nesxt few years and take credit for it like they did with imancipation. Just imagine if Truman had taken a real stand on Communism and not just oh well if we just stay over here then nothing will happen. When washington made that advisement, the Atlantic Ocean was the greatest sttrategical advantage of any major country. In todays technology especially in a woar with terrorists i think that we were compelled to act, and i will stand by my president in his persuit of our enemies no matter what the hell he scored on the IQ test because i think that he has all the answers that count right now.

 

[jj82277]

and oh yeh, what is the problem with the left not liking to be told when they are wrong or acting like children. we can be called irational testosterone junkies, but if we tell the ranting lunatics that they are ranting lunatics they seem to get offended. I am not talking about people on this forum, i don't have an in depth knowledge of your views, but do you hear what these people are saying from the floor of the US senate. I won't even get into byrd because the idea that the party claiming to be pro minority is still backing Klan members is mind boggling, but Ted Kennedy is just plain loosing it. I think that its jsut plain sad to watch. all they do is throw out political catch phrases. take the new bankruptcy law, in my oppinion there should be no such thing as bankruptcy, I think that we should just spend less time teaching our kids to hate this country and teach them how to be successful through positive thinking and foreplanning (budgetting and financial planning, i don't get bankruptcy). The phrase he leaned on was the Single mom that goes bankrupt : ( tear. what he fails to mention is that there had to be some act of negligence for the situation to occur. if she is widowed God forbid, her husband did not have enough insurance or savings. If she is not then once again the unintended consequnces for permisuous sex, in conjunction with bad budgetting. Frankly if there weren't that many bankruptcies i think that the rates would be lower for anyone foolish enough to rely heavily on credit. yes that was a rethorical statement. If we taught people to be independent of credit and live within there means and save to a greater end what would be wrong. I hate the fact that we consider peopel intelligent or not based on the amount of trivial knowledge the absorb. I forget which one, but one of the pioneering captains of industry was actually for all intents and purposes questioned in a court of law to try and proove his ignorance. I am talking about either ford or Carnage. 100's of millions each in like pre wwII economy. ofcourse he was proven not to be, but it was the intillecual elite of his day trying to make him sound dumb based on lack of generall knowledge (does that remind you of anyone we all know, come on think real hard. he made a great quote, "sir i have about my chair that i sit in a row of electrical buttons to summon unto me anyone i want to provide me with the knowledge to make the functional decisions of the industry weith which i occupy my time. now why do you want me to clogg up my mind with general knowledge" why has this gone ignored in the school system as a whole. why don't we teach more practical functional decisoion making especially in the arena of personal finance. everyone would have a positive outlook on life, because they have a plan and that no matter what they had protection in place to take care of them if some unforseen tragedy was to strike there family. WHAT"S WRONG WITH THAT? Ill tell you what. 95% of all financially independent people not in hollywood vote republican. You mena we wouldn't need liberalls any more? welll not that we really need them now, but no.

look what you all got me ino. I'm going to be late for a meeting. Thakns again for all the wonderful replies. it warm my heart to have this kind of open debate among us. I hope that we can all get back together very soon. I think we shall try something a little spicier next time.

 

[coloman]

This thread is getting out of perspective. It's about our Social Security system and not about venting your dislike of any of the politicians right up to the President who are in in Washington DC. Like I said in an earlier post on this thread Social Security would not be in the shape it is now if the politicians had kept their big fat hands out of the pot. However, you can't blame just one politician or party because the idiots in Washington DC started screwing with Social Security almost from the time the system was created.

 

[Doctor Convulso]

This thread is getting out of perspective. It's about our Social Security system and not about venting your dislike of any of the politicians right up to the President who are in in Washington DC.

That is the sanest thing I've read on this thread in some time.

I stopped posting on this site about five months ago, as I was sick to my back teeth of people using a tickling forum as a platform for their bigotry. I have no objection to a constructive or even heated debate, so long as people try and retain a little objectivity.

Although I don't post any more, I still like to check the site out now and again. And it saddens me to say that thanks to the efforts of just a few people, this thread has been home to some of the most poorly disguised political mania it's been my misfortune to read in some time.

When someone reading a thread has to sift through a litany of incoherence and heavily coloured personal opinions in order to decipher what might be a valid point, then it smacks of lazy thinking and personal prejudice. That's a sad state of affairs, especially when the poster is perfectly capable of making an incisive and cohesive argument.

AphroditeRabbit - I'm sorry to see people in a supposedly adult discussion of a serious matter resorting to trying to score cheap points off of you the way they have. I for one don't think you deserve it.

I guess I'll try again in August then.

 

[GEORGIATKLER]

Flips Coin... Food Or Medicine This Week? ........

I Think Many Good Points Have Been Made. Kyhawkeye, If I Wasn't Already Making Millions A Week Stuffing Envelopes At Home And Helping Nigerian Officials Put $$ In My Bank Account I Really Would Be Worried! Lol! Ss(bitchin' Uniforms Though, Imho) Was Never Run As A Retirement Plan Should Be. The Government "borrowed" From The Ss Excess To Fight Wars Etc. As Khawk And Others Said The Demographics Have Turned The Pyramid Scheme Upside Down. People Who Did Not Pay Enough Into The System Still Got Ssi Benefits. The Base Amount Taxed Each Year And The Age Of "full" Retirement Benefits Keep Going Out Of Sight.( Is There Still A Carrot On The End Of The Stick?) When A Single Person Dies There Is No Ss Benefit To Pass On To Heirs. I'm 47 And Wonder If That Leg Of My 3 Legged Retirement Stool(ss, Company Pension, Individual Retirement Plans) Will Be There At All. My Ace In The Hole Is Becoming A Walmart Greeter, I Guess. Now Let's Talk About Medicare.medicaid And The Prescription Drug Benefit... Waaaaaaaaaah. Ss Was Never Intended To Provide One's Only Retirement Income. That Part Of The Plan Is Working Just Fine!

 

[uttahcee1]

Kyhawkeye if you were a true conservative you wouldn't care about the U.N Resolutions that's not in the best interest in the American Policy on terror, at least that's what George Bush Stated durning the 2nd debate, Quote I will not let The U.N give Carte Blanch to forgein Terrorist, So please don't staddle two sides of the issuse about Iraq. We went to war to get Georgie Reelected and killed approx 70000 Iraq and aprox 1600 of our beloved brothers, sisters,fathers and sons. To invade a country that had restricted air space no true conventional weapons is a sad part of American Policy

 

[uttahcee1]

oh yeah I wouldnt trust him with my money our societies money because he just don't get it he was born rich and he tries to act like the common man,Ipersonally think most of our elected officals could care less about WE THE PEOPLE and only care about getting reelected.We should raise the celling of SS tax to assist it,We as a collective group should demand a system accoutalbilty No More Raiding to Pay for services that we cant afford. Our Elected leaders should really take a long look at the eroding manufacturing base to make money your enconomy has to have some type of industrail
buisness, we can't substain anything without jobs.

 

[jj82277]

I have heard the we can't afford argument enough and it ends hear. there is none among us that can not afford to save 100 dollars a month. if you can't right now then you should sell your computer and cutt of your internet. If i had to do it i would. With the avenues available to every american there is no need for social security, and as someone so eloquently pointed out it was based on a German deception to hide higher taxes uinder the guise of a public service. I do it for a living, everyone can afford to retire if they plan. ROTH IRA please.

Is that concise enouh Mr. Convulso. If you have a problem with the way that i express my oppinions, then please feel free to take me on in a debate, but please refreain from taking shots from the cheap seats. but then again your profile depicts your inherant lack of courage. to accept necessatiy and reject desire is the death of manhood. but hey thats just my Personal Oppinion.

 

[coloman]

A note to jj82277: While $100.00 should be affordable to most people I am sure there are a lot of people in this country who live from paycheck to paycheck and are unable to afford to set aside even that small an amount of money per month. I will restate my point that if the Social Security program had never been intrusted to the politicians but had instead been intrusted to a trustworthy insurance company or investment firm we would have more than enough money in the Social Security system to make it possible for everyone to get a much larger check from Social Security each month after they retire and therefore be a lot less dependant on supplemental retirement income. As far as ROTH IRA's go they are fine but a lot of people can't afford to invest in them either.

 

[jj82277]

once again you miss my point. why do people live paycheck to paycheck. Is there a law that requires it. I didn't read it. That is a direct result of poor planning, and frankly i blame the lack of male leadership in this country on a family level. The point that i am trying to make Dr. Schmidt is that most Americans sleepishly choose their credit cards and big screen T. V.s as opposed to their future. The oh well I can't afford it is just a lie they tell themselves to try to justify it. If that's you or someone you know, I'm sorry, but i look at peoples finances every day and trust me if someone wanted to set aside 25 dollars a week they could. I think that you missed my point about selling your computer. that should be the mentality of every family in this country, because i think that being able to eventually stop working is that important. I don't seem to get how a man who can not provide for his family to that level ever in his life gets laid. are these guys that damn charming. by definition you are broke if you can not live on your savings for six months. we live in the richest country in the world, but it doesn't come with a damn check. we have all the oppurtunity in the world to take advantage of if you choose too, and it literally breaks my heart to see responsibile would be adults sit up and say to their FAMILIES. THEIR WIVES. THEIR CHILDREN, im sorry honey i can't some up with an extra hundred for our future. I'm sorry kids daddy doesn't want to work hard enough for your futures. to me that's what it boils down to.

really unless you controll your own money you don't know what's going to happen. most investment firms that would take on all these small accounts would just throw them in the oh well pile to tell you the truth. and if you think that insurance companies have anything to do with retirement then we can have a serious discussion about why that's not the case, and that is from the heart. personal accounts will if everything goes right get you to about 25-35% of your retirement goal. where's the rest going to come from. you have a bat and balls handle it. i've said it before ill say it again. 200/month 12 % 35 years 1.3 million dollars. Those who have in this country decided early in life that it was worth to make sure they could afford to do this or a more ambitious model. It's not that they're born with it it's just not that damn hard.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Alot of people give up before they even try, and when something goes over their head that they don't understand, they avoid it altogether rather than dealing with it.

What you're saying is very true. The posture of the common american is very bad. They complain about what they don't have yet they don't want to be ambitious enough to provide for themselves.

People get into huge ammounts of debt so quickly, and because they do not immediately feel the pinch, they foolishly let their credit cards take care of everything. We're putting our trust in a system with high interest rates and other taxes and fines and allowing that to suck us dry because we're still dependant on the system. That would be fine, but TOO many are dependant on the system, and thats not counting fraud.

People need to wake up and realize that their retirement is only going to be what they make it. Now MY problem is that even if one works really hard and earns what they have, and invests their finances wisely, they still might be screwed by the system when it comes to SS because it itself is not capable of making good on anything substancial because of other people. The more people that make a nest egg for themselves and plan ahead, the less strain there will be on the system and the more compensation one will get later on in life.

At least, thats the way its supposed to work. But try telling that to the people, as you so elloquantly put it, that are simply too lazy and irresponsible with their funds to give a rat's ass about how they may be commiting fiancial suicide later. They get into fiancial spending habits that they don't end up breaking until the shit hits the fan.

 

[jj82277]

from the heart Vlad,

If nothing else comes of my patisan ranting in this plane of communication, Iwill always lok fondly on our aquantance, I hope that one day we can truly be friends in the real world some day.

and wouldn';t you know it that the day the kid takes the stand this idiot showed up in pajmas. I know the story and i know the excuse, but come on. I hope that im not eating crow in the next few months.

see ya.

oh and Count, just one more thing .......... Love your suit

 

[coloman]

While there is no law about having to live from paycheck to paycheck a lot of the people in this country do. Married couples with children have to spend money on things like clothes for thier kids, school expenses and Dr. and Dentist bills to mention just a few things and they may not be able to set aside money for retirement even though they're quite capable of planning their financial affairs. By the way I am not a Doctor, I am a dues paying blue collar worker and I pay my bills on time and have also planned ahead so I can afford to retire when that time in my life arrives. The way they keep raising the retirement age though I may have to work until I die before I can retire with full benefits. I did not miss your point about people selling their computers or big screen TV's but even that amount of money would have to be very well invested in order for you to live on it for any length of time.Your point of doing without one thing so you can afford another was well taken but people also should be allowed to spend money on things they enjoy because they need to do that in order to cope with the pressures of everyday life. I also wonder how many college age students we have in this country today who think Mom and Dad should foot the entire bill for thier education and don't do a damn thing to help with the rising costs that their parents have to deal with during the four or more years thier kids are in college to earn a degree and the time it takes them to get established in thier first job out of school.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

@ jj82277- That would be nice. 🙂

@ Mr. Schmidt-

Sir (and yes, you have earned it), I'll give it to you that there are unexpected labors of love, of need, and money that goes toward a great many things that sometimes one cannot prepare for no matter how sound their game plan is, not that its a game at all, but sometimes it feels that way.

You're right about everything you said. But as was already said, living paycheck to paycheck is often a choice a person makes. So many lack motivation and true desire. Its unfortunate. And once they enter a cycle, it may be hard to break out of it.

I guess the best way to put this simply is this way-

Where theres a will theres a way.

 

[jj82277]

Mr. Schmidt, all kidding aside, I do this for a living. If you show me a couple who actually sits down twice a week to take an hour or to and plan their finances, and twice a year consults a professional that can't come up with an extra hundred bucks and i will give you my paycheck for the year it just doesn't happen.

You are very well off to know that you need to plan ahead most people don't want to hear it. let me tell you a secret. You know why people don't like bush and didn't like Regan, because their bold. this may sound like more partisanship, but its true. I know for a fact that every person in this country can plan for their retirement its not as hard as we make it out to be. The left's nich is letting people know how hard it is to provide for themselves, so they can all throw a pitty party every year. when US senators called investing in conservative funds a gamble i lost all faith in American representative Democracy. i really did. they let their constituents exist in a level of comfort. its okay that you don't take time to invest, its okay that yo don't go get health insurance. It's okay because we will take care of you by giving you 1/10 what you could do if you were able to do it on your own. In esence the same way you would treat a small child. and that's the truth. Bush for example tries to break people out of that habbit. not just him, but the center right as a whole, come on little American you can do it. You CAN invest You CAN retire, and this scares people, why because it takes away their excuses and they are confronted with the fact that you know what there is no great conspiracy, and that they just didn't take advantage of their oppurtunities. America right now is about 1/10 of the society she could be because we slow everything down to accomidate everyone. we really don't have enough competitors for capitalism to truly work so we have to make room for every body. I still don't know how in the hell Who is President has anything to do with wether or not my family eats. as a man I decide that and i will make sure of it, no matter what the retirement age is. If you listen to one group of people they would call me a triumphalist neo con testosterone Junky. I call myself a man of charecter. You have to realize this is a society of choicwe. and then you stop having sympathy for people. I am a college age kid who found out what the heck was going on. so what do i get. I get to retire as a millionaire by the time im 45 because you know what i made sure the 400 dollars got there every month. I did. Kerry could be in office right now and i would still be doing it.

really that was the point of this thread. In this country we have to stop feeling sorry for each other and having pitty parties, and start making those decisions. There are those who say well you know we need all our allies and we need these people to like us so they can provide for us, why because they have the mindset of children. Post adolescent idealists as i like to call them. What do we really need, more Americans. I mean you look, the reason that we are not too concerned about imigration is that those are the people fighting tooth and nail for the ability to save that 100, or 200 dollars a month. risking their LIVES. so that maybe one day a son of a son will have an oppurtunity. Pregnant women time labor so that their children will be born on our soil, to experience what we call discrimination. and we sit with our full bellies and say, we can't afford it. no what your saying is that its not worth it to me. My families future isn't woth it to me. Mr. Maher likes to talk about why they hate us. why is it that countries around the world dis like us. We're the pretty girl at the party. and all the other girls hate her, because she's the one they all want to be like. but you know what, if we keep saying what we can't do, and who we need, and what we can't afford then we won't be the pretty girl at the party anymore, and that scares me.

It's amazing, there's a book called rich dad poor dad. I sincerly recommend that book. theres only two ways to live in this country, succesfully, or just getting by. and each one is a choice. there are succesfull people in trailers, and people just getting by in Mansions, I'll let you figure out the difference on your own.

The reason i feel so strongly on this subject is because i see everyday someone turn their nose up at help, or sound advice. nope, im just going to stay with the safe plan. but that's not a plan. I don't know, ill have to think it over, no you won't. and you know what if 40 years from now they're standing on the side of the road it really won't bother me. some might think that's harsh, no its not i gave them an oppurtunity. and I know as a country we've lost sight of that. I don't care what the numbers say, most peopel here think this is the land of the guarenteed. I'm a citizen and if i don't make it i'm going to get a check. let me tell you, those 56 men would not have taken this nation to war for a guarentee from someone else. they took that risk for an oppurtunity to make the lives that they wanted, and im frankly sick and tired of making that so trivial. let's teach our kids to not like our country. lets teach kids to idolize criminals and gangsters, because they make songs, lets teach kids not to me moral, lets teach kids about CREDIT, let's teach kids that Mom and Dad aren't always right. the growth is small, but if we don't start rebulding this nations foundation of patriotism, values, self confidence, and financial responsibility, then we are really only what is it 256 electors from disaster.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

It's amazing, there's a book called rich dad poor dad.

I saw that book advertized on tv during one of those sponsored programs. I may order it. The author of the book gave an interview, and alot of what he said was just common sense, but something I see alot of people foolishly not doing with their fianances. He has this simple, but effective approach at gaining financial independance.

Now some people might think thats a scam or that he's just peddling out easy answers, but he didn't say wealth, he said financial independance, which is something totally different, and is honestly all that most common folk really want. I'm sure theres far less people who want to be rich, and more of those that would simply want to rest easier at night, knowing they have not entered a financial pitfall or won't.

While I would have had the attitude about this before I even saw this program a year or so ago, its definitely embolding to see self-made people sharing the "wealth" ,so to speak, with others.

 

[Cbarton]

Wow, leave the state for a few days and look what happens....

AR: I guess I need to state a premise to explain my words. I am not one to mince words. I tend to speak plainly and use my words carefully and with purpose. If I feel someone is acting like an idiot or a fool, I'm not afraid to say so, no matter what political or other affiliation they are. In my 42 years of life on this planet, I have seen many trying to qualify themselves as idiots. I have pulled out my hair in frustration with watching people of both sides looking only to the next election and not planning for the future for the citizens of this country.

Example 1:
The current SS situation is a prime example. People on both sides of the aisle 20 years ago put off making needed changes but justed covered it with a 'quick fix." Now, the patch is starting to fall off and the garment needs to be replaced.

Not less than 2 years ago, many of the leadership of the Dem. senators SUPPORTED some form of privatization of SS. Now, they are opposing it for the sole reason that Kerry lost and they are seeking every way possible to weaken the president's position, power, and popularity. They are putting their quest for power over the needs of the people they CLAIMto be serving as elected officials. To me, that is foolish and idiotic. If they claim to represent the people of their state, they need to do it for real , rather than just posture. We no longer have statesmen in washington, just career polititions (on both sides of the aisle) and it is destroying or goverment.

Example #2:
During the first term of Pres. Clinton, the House leadership (Newt Gingerich, et al) had in the approriations bill that the school lunch program's funding would increase by less than it had the year before (ex. instead of a 5% increase, it would be a 3% increase. Can't remember the exact number, it's the concept that's important). The Dem's and their willing accomplises in the press proclaim that our children were going to starve because their funding was being cut. That was a lie, it went up, just not as much as the Dem's wanted. Rather than stand up for what was happening and explain it to the people, Rep. Gingerich and the Rep's let them get away with it. Newt was a fool and and idiot for letting that lie be spread.

There are fools and idiots on both sides of the aisle, AR. I know that WAYYYYY too well. My humble opinion is on SS reform, the Democratic leadership are acting like fools in their debate. The clock is ticking and they refuse to see that the alarm is about to go off.

Don't worry. Soon enough, the republican leadership will do something foolish and idiotic (in fact, the senior senator in my state appears to be doing such a thing, but that is off the SS topic, and can be saved for a separate debate).

If I come off partisan, fine. The 'mainstream' press has been partisan for the last 30 years, but many in the USA don't seem to notice or care. I listien to both sides of the debates. I choose my words and sides specifically, appropriately and wisely. I think Clinton did foolish things. I think BOTH Bushes have done foolish things. I have stated my opinion on the current SS situation. If no one likes or agrees, that's fine. We're all supposed to have opinions. Mine can be ignored as easily as any other. Free speech guarrantees my right to speak, not to be heard. If you choose to personally censor it, feel free. I was a conservative long before it was cool to do so. I'm used to being ignored....😉