The appreciation thread

[iron maiden]

Just my thoughts

Sammi-Chan
Bandito and Lotus
Snail Shell
Cheshire Cat
Tyklfynd
C Tickler
Nessonite
Umojar
Cosqui
Lostonezero
LittlebigHead
TomatoDragon
and everyone else that has ever drawn any art your all awsome in my opinion.😉

 

[Timewarp]

A man who can iron his own shirts does not NEED a woman, thus the treasure is him and the woman who gets him is much more compliant to his needs. 😉

Contemplate this for a while.

hmmmmm....

I thought about it...

and......

if I can just wash my clothes, that makes me a hero.

 

[CheshireCatNY]

Wow...I feel so loved....

Yeah I still live...barely...just lurking these days...and no I'm not doing any new work currently so don't ask...focusing on my "normal" art these days...

And for the record I find the judging of artistic achievement fundamentally flawed as artistic expression in its most basic form is a reflection of the individuals soul and spirit whether it be a masterpiece or a stick figure, a symphony or a commercial jingle; although I don't judge the people who innocently chose to thank those artists that they love. Much like my own metal music fandom, I have favorite bands that other people may not much appreciate as much as me but that doesnt make their ability to express themselves creatively any less valid...

 

[P[a]pi]

I could be wrong, but I think the average tickling art fan cares more about an artist's style than his or her ability to make a perfect anotomically correct human. And by style I mean 2 things.

One: The style of the actual drawing. Every artist has his or her own style that can't really be duplicated. Is it highly detailed or not. Does it look more American or more Japanese (anime) or furry. Does it look more like a real life person or a simplified version of a real life person. For example does the artist draw every toe nail and finger nail on the hands and feet or not. Etc.

Two: What is going on in the picture. Does the artist show you the soles of the feet or the tops and sides. Does the artist use more real life bondage or unrealistic bondage like plants. Does the artist focus on feet or other body parts. Does it seem like the artist tried to draw a picture dedicated to tickling or an awesome piece of art that just happens to have tickling in it. Does the artist use extra bondage accessories like blindfolds, duct tape gags, cleave gags, ball gags, collars and leashes. Etc.

Neither of those two things have anything to do with how well at artist can draw people or faces. I'm not saying that, that doesn't matter at all. I'm just saying that I think an artist's 2 types of style matter more than his or her actual drawing ability.

So what I'm trying to say is that artist's shouldn't sweat it if their name wasn't said by somebody. That just means that they don't like your style, which doesn't have anything to do with how well you can draw. Style is so subjective.

And on the flip side. If somebody says your name than that means they like your style and your style is really a part of you. Which I think is a bigger complement than somebody saying you can draw real well.

Being the best at something and being somebody's favorite at something are 2 totally different things. And when you are dealing with artwork their really is no way to determine "the best" or a group of "the best." So all you can try to do is be some people's favorite or a be part of a person's group of favorites.

Michael Jordan was the best basketball player ever, but he wasn't everybody's favorite basketball player ever.

Which band is the best band ever? There is no way to answer that. You can only have favorites because there is no head to head competition in art and there are no championships in art. haha

I've hand drawn one piece of furry artwork so far and I think I did a really good job, but my name hasn't been mentioned in here. But, thats cool becaue I know that there was at least one person who looked at my pic and thought, "Wow, he really got in my head. I like his style."

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Well, see that's why I was saying your point of view is a bit extreme, as I don't think the idle praise is as harmful as you say, nor do I think the people that do it are selfish because of it. Sure if they're extreme with it than it's an issue, but the artist should be able to see through that at the very least, unless they're really that delusional. Plus many people aren't artists here, and critiquing is something that has to be done carefully otherwise it can be the most harmful thing. Someone giving bad criticisms hurt the artists work even more than praise, as even praise will usually get the artist to draw more and get more practice. While it would help if they always said what they liked about it, they aren't obligated to do so. If the artist wants to improve, he/she must take it upon themselves to do so by asking for critiques as you said or just looking at other artist's work that's better than yours. It all starts with being honest with yourself about your skill level. It's no one else's fault but your own if you stop trying to improve because everyone says your art is good enough.

People who give idle praise are engaging in selfish behavior whether they are aware of it or not. It can, in fact, be done subconciously, especially when it becomes convenient, a habit, or second nature, etc. See, the selfishness comes in with the desire to please the artist superficially. The desire to please the artist superficially comes from the desire to see more of their work. The desire to see more of their work is selfish in that had they taken the time to actually look at what they were saying and compare it to the truth and how they actually feel about it, truthfully, then they may have nothing but negative things to say or more negative than positive. The fact they choose superficial praise and dishonesty over honest praise and balancing criticisms means they are lazy but are also looking to protect the gravy train the artist provides. Thats whats selfish about it. They intentionally hold back the truth even though it may help the artist, because they don't want to risk angering or hurting their feelings, and having them leave. Their desire to protect the flow of artwork is actually more important to them than the artist, his/her health as an artist, their well-being as an artist, and their sense of place.

What you say is true in that it takes a really deep level to be completely consumed by your selfishness that you'd tell the artist whatever, but the reality is, in most cases on these two sites, idle praise is given regardless of how deep it is. Unless the commenters prove that it isn't just superficial idle praise, then it appears to be and is, since we cannot read their minds. It is idle praise to the artist and it is to everyone else reading their responses. In fact, its not until you do the opposite of idle praise that your intentions are clear. We can only gauge what is and is not superficial comments and idle praise by the quality of the posts themselves. When we see this, we can see effort in people's responses, and that at least proves that they are trying to not just be a leech, but are supporting their supposed and so-called favorite artist as a so-called fan. It shows you have a real interest in this artist's development and not just what they produce which can benefit you.

I, however, agree with what you're saying also. Don't get me wrong about that. Its really just common sense. And so, like with nerrad, my business manager in the attachment is informing me that he approves of your messege. Congradulations! 🙂 😛aw:

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

So what I'm trying to say is that artist's shouldn't sweat it if their name wasn't said by somebody. That just means that they don't like your style, which doesn't have anything to do with how well you can draw. Style is so subjective.

You're right. I shouldn't sweat it, and I don't. My name is rarely mentioned on peoples' favorites lists, yet technically, I am near the top. I use myself as a perfect example right now because I do not draw fetish artwork often. That drops me down and off many people's lists, undoubtedly simply because I don't draw the fetish or foot pictures often and I don't do request as often or at all anymore. Thats like an auto-ban right there. However, my actual talent is underminded by that, since if you were to judge my art according to it's artistic richness (quality of drawing, lineart, coloring, blending, shadows, etc.) you would see that I do things in my art that most people here either cannot do, do not want to do, do not do often or are not at a level yet which they can do them. My place in a list would be reversed if you judged me as an artist and not a favorite, since my art is about quality and it is made of the stuff that constitutes artistry in a refined form.

Likewise, and on the flip side, if I drew lots of fetish material and I drew only that, I will have had many years now to refine that also and to hone it, so I have no doubt that it would have been near impossible to not know who I am in these communities. If I was to combine the quality of my work with fetish themes on a constant basis and offer my services to people who would pay for it, I'd be rocking this joint left and right since I'd have the favoritism AND the quality to back it up, not just one or the other. Lots of artists here just have one or the other. And, should one fail me, the other will still be there, which means I'd break even. I'd either still be a good artist or still popular, or both, but to a lesser extent.

Being the best at something and being somebody's favorite at something are 2 totally different things.

I completely agree with you there. There is a HUGE difference, which I've explained above in my example.

And when you are dealing with artwork their really is no way to determine "the best" or a group of "the best."

Not true. If you break artwork evaluation down into categories or research and evaluate instances, it is possible because then you're being selective and technical, point for point and diliberately looking for things and analyzing things on a minute level. There could be "best drawer" "best painter" "best line work", etc. And those are just a few among one category. The point is, one person, if they are really good, may hold all of these titles at once. Does that not constitute the title of "best" as per the definition? Have they not been determined to be the consumate artist because each instance of evaluation proved that they put more effort or work into their art and it shows? I think it does prove it, because their art obviously covers all those areas very well.

Now, favorite is a different category, as is theme, and imagination and things that have more to do with character and less to do with actual technical artistic mastery. These are different from technical skills so have to be judged seperately so that the "best" of these categories can be determined also. So, yes, you are right in that there is a difference between best artist and best favorite or most favorited, etc.

So all you can try to do is be some people's favorite or a be part of a person's group of favorites.

If you're the best, you don't have to try, you automatically are by default and most people who are being honest with themselves will realise this as people with superior talent stand out in a crowd, even regardless of how people feel about them. You are right again however in that you could only ever get people to accept you as a favorite, as having them verbally/publically accept you as the best is not likely, especially if they do not like you or theres some personal bias involved. In cases where the title of "best" is disputed (it can happen and often does), then I'd compare the artists, look at their faults, look at their strengths, and compare them similarly, since, we must assume here that they're equally good up to the point of evaluation if there is a dispute or split opinion. Among the results there will be the better artist, even if it's only slightly, because he had more strong points and less weaknesses than the other guy... but he may not seem so if the other is simply more popular. So, in actuality, being the best actually means taking backseat to someone else unless you possess the favoritism as well.....which is very unlikely and so I'd agree there is no best ultimately in that sense.

Let me give you a short example. BAC (am I supposed to capitalize it all?) is no doubt one of the best, and to argue against that would be silly. However, I have seem some people state that while his artwork is beyond compare, it is not to their preference. So, in that person's opinion, even if BAC was determined to be the best artist overall, that fact is underminded by that person's tastes. He's still the best because it's been founded and agreed upon, but he may not have the support of the masses.

Michael Jordan was the best basketball player ever, but he wasn't everybody's favorite basketball player ever.

I liked that you said this, so I quoted it. Not much to say on this portion other than it backs up your previous statements and was a good way to solidify your opinion. Good job. 🙂

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I don't think anyone here is under the wrong impression that the views of the tickle theater community will affect anything outside it's virtual walls.

As much as this statement of yours SHOULD be true, it really isn't all the time. I've seen plenty of instances where decisions made and opinions listened to on these sites lead to real-life decisions (good and bad).

I've seen people get talked out of committing suicide and I myself have been approached by members of different ages who knew I was christian and came to me for real-world guidance in christian matters that they would later apply to real-life circumstances. I should hope they only listened to me rather than automatically do what I say, though.

Likewise, we've had people threaten to leave these forums and vow to never return. That affects the outside world, since leaving means there is no more or less interaction from the outside world into this one, which is a change nonetheless, since it alters what you do or do not do or removes it altogether.

But....yeah. LOL What you're saying SHOULD be true. Perhaps it would be too perfect if it was. "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" does not apply here. 😀

 

[alf1]

I think you take things too deeply Vlad, i mean i understand what people can think about your art, what you think that they can feel etc ....
well keep cool eh ? 🙂 relax

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I think you take things too deeply Vlad, i mean i understand what people can think about your art, what you think that they can feel etc ....
well keep cool eh ? 🙂 relax

I'm an artist, firstly (and that makes a difference to my opinion), and secondly I am a deep person by nature. What seems deep to you may not be to me. I think on levels people only think on when they're intentionally doing so. There is an off switch, so to speak but I see no reason to switch myself off on a topic I can add greatly to and one which I have a passion for.

Also, a point well worth mentioning right now is that this issue never ends regardless of the circumstances and how the thread starts or ends. As I said, its reincarnated whenever the moment fancies it or opportunity strikes, and this thread gave way to it yet again. Its also well worth mentioning that I didn't start this, other people did. Had this thread not been created I will not have made it myself nor would I even be thinking about this right now.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, yes, I will keep cool. If, for whatever reason, I seem like I'm frantic or not calm, thats totally not true. I can see how it seems that way because of the length of my posts and the words I choose, but none of these things can carry across my tone of voice or my inflections. If they could you may not have responded to me or said what you said.

At any rate, thank you, and keep cool yourself. 🙂

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I really just meant as far as the art debate goes, but your not wrong in what you expanded on. I was going to commit suicide one time because nobody liked my drawing, but I got over it. Mostly.

Yeah, I knew what you meant. I was just poking at. Don't worry about it. ^__^

(You're not an emo are you, nerrad? Where do you live? Maybe I need to drive down there and organize an intervention!)

 

[alf1]

If, for whatever reason, I seem like I'm frantic or not calm, thats totally not true. I can see how it seems that way because of the length of my posts and the words I choose, but none of these things can carry across my tone of voice or my inflections. If they could you may not have responded to me or said what you said.

I never said that you were not calm, my point was just to write something funny here, you take it too deep ^^ I don't care about the length of yours posts, sometimes it's a good read ( always edited though ).

What i meant is that you don't have to waste time with futile things, when you'll understand ( or already have ) how life goes on ... well 🙂

 

[c_tickler]

Sammi-Chan
C Tickler

Thanks! Didn't think i'd get on this (lol)
it means alot Maiden Thanks again

My fav's: Well with so many to choose i'd have to say (not in order of course)
Littlebighead
Tomato Dragon
Pab
Snail Shell
Sammi-Chan
In fact so many to choose from i'm gonna bow down to all the artists who post stuff on the Art Forum - i know myself how hard it can be to find : time / effort & inspiration to produce tickle art,
Many Thanks to all of you 😉

 

[Kalamos]

Maybe a bit less harsher though. Besides it only turns into a popularity contest the second someone whines/comments about so and so not being mentioned. And everyone else start up on it. Then we of course get this

Less harsh?
You must be joking!

I say, let us turn this into a bloodfest!
Let us have artists sort it out on the field of battle, with arms and teeth.
Let the gods sort them out!
Nobody can be more popular than you are, when you are the only surviving artist!

THUNDERDOME! THUNDERDOME! THUNDERDOME!

😀

...

Dibs on Nessonite's wacom tablet...

😉

 

[meangry1]

To be honest, I can see the idle praise being a very negative influence on art...of any kind. However, I can not view it from the view point of a person who draws, or paints, or sculpts. I learned at a very young age that I simply had no talent in drawing, so art composition skipped a beat and did not resonate.

I understand that, if someone was to look back and search through my forum posts, they'd see someone very one dimensionally throwing praise without giving any sort of explanation for it. Part of that is laziness, and the fact that honestly...I view a lot of things intrinsically involved in something like a fetish as not being held to the same standard. I mean, very few people here have the ability to write professionally, or draw professionally. Hell, for the most part, these same people completely separate who and what they are from this. Look no further than Chesire's point about doing "regular art". I do not know how he views any of this, but in segregating what you are doing, you are giving only half an effort as an artist because you do not think it would stand up in your 'regular circle' or whatever.

Now, I have lurked around for a while and seen different artists progressively grow better and better. I find it hard to describe in terms of something constructive, as I do not have the knowledge base to say "well...if you tried to draw the eye in THIS style..." or "the sort of shading used in the picture really brings out how much a contrast the person's personality and the scene they find themselves in, but you could also do...". Part of constructive criticism is having some level of credibility.

People do not want to be told what they do sucks, and if someone says "this is kind of very rudimentary, you should try to expand upon this", they more than likely are going to get upset.

That said, I do appreciate a lot of what people in this community do. I fashion myself more literary, and trust me that is enough of a terrible task...to try and balance what I honestly believe as opposed to just telling someone something positive so they continue to try and do something.

I mean, to be frank...look at the majority of the content for this site. There are sexual innuendos aplenty. And as someone who finds what this community is based upon as tantalizing...I dunno.

But I do see it, and see it as an issue. Seeing some of the artwork praised here kind of just shocks me because, to my eye, it looks like trash. On the same side, there are some decent gems.

Take it for what it's worth, I guess.

 

[Chad Pet]

I could be wrong, but I think the average tickling art fan cares more about an artist's style than his or her ability to make a perfect anatomically correct human.

For the average tickling art fan, the first thing is subject matter. The people in this community (and I say this with love) have a tendency to be extremely specific--to a fault--about what they like to see.

There are a lot of avid collectors who are so fixated on specific themes that one's overall skill is rated according to how well, or whether, one sticks to those themes. I can't tell you the number of times I've been degraded because I didn't point the pencils toward women in stocks, or women in pantyhose, or women in Wonder Woman costumes. I knew a guy a few years ago who literally believed that having a diverse palette of subject matter meant mixing DC costumed supergals with Marvel.

Additionally, if I'm slightly off on a person's exact fantasy I get more grief for only going 90% of the way instead of appreciation for having gotten it mostly right.

Others have gushed over every single thing I've ever done, even if I think it's crap.

Somewhere in the middle are those who both understand and appreciate what I've always tried to do here--expand the boundaries of expression in this community by deviating from the standard scenarios. I must say that's getting harder to do with the increasing diversity of talents we now appear to have. :super_hap

 

[Sablesword]

I could be wrong, but I think the average tickling art fan cares more about an artist's style than his or her ability to make a perfect anotomically correct human.

For me it's both. If the style is one I like, but the technical skill isn't there, then the work doesn't wow me. Likewise if the technical skill is good but the style isn't one I particularly care for. The works that do wow me are the ones that show both good technical skill and that have a style I like.

To pick on Papi since I'm quoting him, I liked the style of his second Faye "furry tickled by a machine" drawing, but the technical skill was painfully low. The divergence in "liked style, lacked skill" is so great, in fact, that I'd like to ask him to return to that drawing after he's practiced and improved some. Or that he give permission for other artists to draw the same scene themselves and post the results here. Or both.

 

[Kalamos]

Thunderdome!

...

Thunderdome!!

...

Thunder... dome!!!

...

Thunder...

 

[Sablesword]

Additionally, if I'm slightly off on a person's exact fantasy I get more grief for only going 90% of the way instead of appreciation for having gotten it mostly right.

I think it's human nature to get frustrated and annoyed with things that are almost right. They're like a chocolate sundae topped with fresh-ground black pepper. I know I get annoyed at such thing, but I mostly keep it bottled in because I know that there are people out there who think that fresh-ground black pepper is the crowning touch on a chocolate sundae.

Related to this is the problem that it's much easier to see and point out flaws in a piece (both in terms of technical skill and style) than the things that the artist or author did a good job on. So criticism, far too often, is 100% negative, even when it's constructive, helpful criticism. And so the painless thing to do is to just post mindless praise.

(Now if commenters could post thoughtful praise - saying just what they liked and why they liked it, rather than simply "good job!" - that would be helpful and desirable. But that's also much harder to do than laying out a pieces' flaws.)

There's also a huge amount of variation in style, tolerance for negative comments, and degree of technical skill to complicate matters. (Yes, some of Chad Pet's art is crap. But "Chad Pet's crap art" is still at the "I wish I could draw that well" level for many people. Me, for example.)

I'm not sure what the answer is, or even if there is one.

 

[10 armed tkler]

I like your work Vlad... tickling or not*waves vlad sign with a tear in eye*

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I'm not sure what the answer is, or even if there is one.

The answer is simple, its just not easily fulfilled through people because its a bad habit, that idle praise. Alot of content flows through these sites daily, that I admit it would make it less desirable to want to have to find good points in an essentially crappy picture and wade through everything to find the real gems. To be completely honest, its not always possible, especially if the picture is just that horrendous. You don't want to find good in it because its just so aweful and you almost feel ashamed looking at it. That leads some to have almost a pity for the artist. So consider that. Maybe alot of this idle praise and quick one-liner responses is also made up of pity.

But then lets look for a moment assuming thats true. If you are replying to someone whose skills are obviously very lacking or are not truely worthy of the praise they're getting, but you give them praise anyway because you feel sorry for them, then thats just as bad as lying to them or exagerating, since the end result is to make them feel better or boost their esteem or ego under false words (lies) and a series of disingenuous feelings. One might say what the artist doesn't know won't hurt them, afterall, I'm telling them something good, they can't tell what I really feel so no one gets hurt and they get a compliment even if its disingenuous. But that line of thinking brings us back to the points I've made in that coddling an artist who would benefit more from constructive criticism is not a good idea and can have some detrimental effect on the artist later on. These effects are usually mental. If its all about what the artist thinks of themself at the end of the day, and you're feeding them a bunch of lies, then they're disillusioned and are being set up for a rude awakening some time down the line when they finally realize their image and rep does not live up to the reality and that will most likely hurt them very deeply to the point where they may quit altogether. Thats what your lies will cause, pain and confusion, instances of personal struggle in an artist that you are contributing to. What affects one mentally affects their skills as well, since some may or may not try harder based on the feedback people give them. So rather than pitying the pitiful, you would actually be giving them better chances with a dose of tough love and guidance of any kind. Its better then writing them off alltogether and giving them pats on the back as some sort of token response, as if it were obligatory.

Whats sad about this is that many people are only superficially supporting the artist at best for the sake of their own gain. If these sites were more like Deviantart, for example, people may be less evasive with their honesty because they expect that the artist will continue regardless of what they say, whereas here, it seems that so many are so fragile and the state of a fetish forum is such that the risk of losing a fetish artist is concidered a higher casuality. What I mean is that the lies, the exageration, and the idle praise are more rampant here because theres more to lose in losing a fetish artist than a "regular artist" elsewhere. I said before how selfish it is, because it is. No matter how you slice it, the primary reason for wanting these artists to stay here is so they keep creating content thats relevant to your fetish needs and interests. Its very possible that many people are so desperate for anything they can get that they're willing to exagerate someone with a skill not worth exagerating for the sake of keeping even that much here, even at the cost of misleading the artist. In a way, you're manipulating the artist by saying things you think will cause them to make decisions which are favorable to you. This is different from genuine praise because with genuine praise there may not be any strings attached or an end result in mind.

Whats almost ironic about this all is that these sites (TMF and TT) are independantly owned and operated, and they are niche, close-knit communities where people are close together, share intimidate details and support eachother, yet the fear of losing or reducing the flow of material is great enough that anything will be said to keep it, the end justifying the means.

This could all be corrected if, like I said before, people just took the time to at least explain in brief WHY they like the picture so the artist will benefit from your thoughts. THAT they can at least do honestly, since theres nothing dishonest about pointing something of interest out. Since its clear most people cannot even or will not even do this much, its a very real issue and problem, which is why this topic will never go away.

 

[caroo]

I wonder were i rate in all this X3 I've tried..not so much to become popular [although that would be nice XD] but more so hoping my artwork gets seen as a fun and creative style that people can enjoy.

I've been drawing it all for a few years now.. i wonder sometimes if anyone even noticed. hahaha.

 

[Spawn190]

Less harsh?
You must be joking!

I say, let us turn this into a bloodfest!
Let us have artists sort it out on the field of battle, with arms and teeth.
Let the gods sort them out!
Nobody can be more popular than you are, when you are the only surviving artist!

THUNDERDOME! THUNDERDOME! THUNDERDOME!

😀

...

Dibs on Nessonite's wacom tablet...

😉

:laughing:

Tonight we dine in hell!

Kids do the right thing, don't comment art work you don't like.

"We must keep the art critics happy or we will see cack war II upon us all"