The Face of A Terrorist

[ShiningIce]

When I was at the bookstore I saw the front cover of a major magazine. On it was the face of a young girl who had blown herself up in an attack on Israel. No matter how hard I looked at that picture I couldnt see a cold blooded, ruthless, terrorist. All I could see was a girl, a girl Id expect to see at school, in my neighborhood, or walking around talking with her friends at the mall. I just couldnt believe that someone so young would willing kill herself just to kill another teenage girl. In another life they could have been best friends, but instead they died togeather. I got so angry at those who sit comfortably in luxury as the people they claim to care for and lead die horrible deaths because they believe they're doing God's will. It would be different if these suiciders were TRULY evil, but they were just confused. Probabaly spent all their lives living with war and death seeing loved ones killed or imprisoned. Then someone tells them if they strap explosives to their bodies and blow themselves up They'll go to Heavan, and all the pain will be over. These men, these leader, THEY are evil. These young children who they send to die......dont deserve to be hated, they deserve pity, beacuse it doesnt look like life for them will get any better anytime soon. Its times like these when I really wonder whats the difference between "US" and "THEM"

 

[Ayesha]

I absolutely agree ShiningIce. You have to wonder how all their hatred can be so intense though. I don't exactly mean how or why as we are 'told' why this is the case, but they are so completely filled with hatred...it is very worrying for these suicide attacks are the height of desperation.

I am a firm beliver that none of the youngsters are in any way 'evil'. They are just being manipulated.

Ayesha

 

[maverick83]

I strongly disagree with terrorist actions, as most of us probably do. However, I do not believe in "good" or "evil", just for the record. I mean, we tend to label things or people as good or evil because our society disagrees with them. At any rate, people do things because they want to. Yes, they have been manipulated, but once one's beliefs are formed, they are part of who one is. Is it right? Well, once again, I strongly disagree with it, but refuse to attempt any definition of right and wrong, as all is possible.

Just wanted to state my opinion, there. I don't mean anything disrespectful or offensive.🙂

 

[Deleted member 2452]

the difference between us, and them

i should think the difference is obvious ice! we don't tell our young people to blow up others, and them selves at the same time! do you really not see a difference between yaser arafat, and us???
steve

 

[maverick83]

Maybe not, but our society still manipulates people. From a young age, we have beliefs forced on us. Furthermore, many of "US" hate others because we don't agree with them. The basics are the same. The only difference is the method used to deal with the hatred. If our government was such that one person held nearly all of the power, I have little doubt that their personal prejudices would lead to the same kind of actions seen in the Middle East.

 

[Strelnikov]

Quoting Maverick:
"I strongly disagree with it, but refuse to attempt any definition of right and wrong, as all is possible."

I'm sorry, but that attitude allows evil to flourish. Refusing to be judgemental on moral issues is itself a judgement. It says that nothing matters. Unfortunately, that attitude is far too common, especially among "advanced" thinkers.

I'm a parent of a young woman not much older than the homicide bomber. I can state with assurance that no teen has the philosophical capacity to decide to blow herself up without being pushed into it. Those who turn young people into guided missiles, and use them to murder innocents, are evil. End of story.

Strelnikov

 

[qjakal]

Evil....

I know it when I see it. Hasn't been in the mirror yet while shaving though, although there's days I'm close..sigh. We discussed this in a few other threads...the "cycle" of political correctness and leniency that we're currently living through may be on the flipside, with a backlash coming that will be all the more restrictive for the actions of this era. Children as "bombs" seems completely clearcut to me, and should to any rational being as well...it's just:

a) Wrong
b) Evil & wrong
c) Sad, evil & wrong
d) Horrifying, sad, evil & wrong
e) all of the above...and much more.

How you choose to wage war and survive is indicative of ones entire cultural beliefs. The Japanese Kamakazi Corp was made possible by their cultures belief in honor above all...we see the trends reflected in the war "styles" throughout history on every continent.
Hopefully a new day will dawn soon...one that will reflect some of the lessons of tolerance that have come out of this period, but which will also incorporate some of the clear ideals of earlier ages as well. Q

 

[ShiningIce]

Areenactor, again I say the difference between "US" and "THEM" is a very thin line. Do not forget all the sick cults in this country which persuades people to kill themsleves and the leader's behest. Do not forget two teenagers shooting up a school and the commiting SUICIDE. Do not forget Oaklahoma City. Americans can be just as sick, fanatical, and frightening as anyone else.

 

[BigJim]

Every society manipulates the perception and the thinking of it's citizens. The UK and the USA aren't exceptions. Our societies don't manipulate us into suicide bombings because they don't have a strong enough grip on our spirituality. The people who will mostly read this post are from areas of the globe where science and religion is gradually merging into a mutual understanding of each other. Wherever one or the other is predominant, you have a society where terror, misery and soul entrapment flourish. Good examples of places where there is too much religious control would be Iraq, Iran(to a degree),some parts of South East Asia and unfortunatley some areas of the United States of America.

Please nobody on this forum who is American and spiritual take offence at this. Anyone who knows me, knows what a yankophile I am and I am always saying in the chat room, how much I wish I'd been born American. The sort of things I am refering to are places where people believe it is the will of "God" to try to settle their differences with inflicting death on the people they disagree with. The Ku Klux Klan are masters at this. They believe whit people are God's chosen, and any "uppity" n*****s who don't stay in their place get lynched. That is God's will? If I remember bible class at school, isn't that the sort of thing the Devil believes? The people who blow up abortion clinics and murder doctors in their homes are of the same ilk. Personally, I hate the thought of abortion. It seems like a situation I'd sooner top myself rather than get into, but common sense tells me that if you try to stop horror with horror, then all you will end up with is double the amount of the "H" word, and still noone has resolved anything.

I'm no pacifist, I agree with the idea of "pre-emptive self defence" such as we are doing overseas right now. That does inflict terror, but it's with the idea of stopping any more of our own buildings being knocked over. I don't believe blowing up clinics and murdering people because they don't have the same colour as you, is making a sane point or winning support.

Sometimes I would like to meet a group of radicals and tell them........"I don't know what I fear most.....the world you want to replace, or the world you want to replace it with."

 

[BigJim]

I forgot to mention that the best stereotype of a society that is too dominated by science and streamlining would be Nazi Germany. It's amazing how similar the worlds at the two ends of the spectrum are.

 

[Deleted member 2452]

you may not see a difference

...but i do, and no one that i know in our country is like the kind of people that encourage homicide bombers. your political correctness is leaving you blind to the truth.

as far as the two teens at columbine col. they were two messed up kids on prozac. they also only killed others students that had been giving them a hard time since in grammer school. they sought out particular individuals, not random victims. btw, kids should never be on prozac, it tends to make them more aggressive. calmer yes, but more agressive.

i can't believe you really feel this way ice. i think you are just trying to be contraversial.

steve

 

[maverick83]

Strel,

Once again, I say: Manipulated? Yes. But once beliefs have been formed in one's mind, regardless of the means, those beliefs are a part of that person. If it is truly what they believe in, it doesn't matter how it got there. The fact is, it's there. People are capable of making decisions based on their beliefs, even as teens.

Second, I retort:
It allows evil to fluorish, does it? Who decides what is evil? You? The concepts of right and wrong were oblitherated centuries ago when we decided we were too good for nature. Not that I'm against our advancement. I'm for it. But the fact remains. We decided to violate our natural instincts, for whatever reason. We chose to pursue knowledge. Good and evil? Let's put it this way. Is nature not considered to be good by most? And what do we see there? Survival of the fittest, by any means nessecary. At some point, we decided that such behavior is barbaric. Once again, I am by no means supporting terrorist actions. I am still against them. I am simply saying that trying to define good and evil is futile.

And again, no disrespect intended.

 

[ShiningIce]

You mistake political correction for the truth. I'm not the one blind here. Those kids did kill people who werent involved with the agony they endured. Just accept the fact that America isnt as golden as ud like it to be.

 

[qjakal]

"Golden"

Oh,,the USA is NOT "golden"...it's just the best form of government that currently exists...a fact YOU need to accept. We're still in the "tin" range, but I like our way of life and social process immensely. Try to remember and acknowledge the good that exists, even while calling for more of it... Q

 

[ShiningIce]

Q, that fact is arguable.

 

[qjakal]

Opinion..

Tis not stated as fact, but rather my opinion, formed through nearly 50 years of experience here...although there ARE times I'd like some royalty, I still think we have a slight edge..if you're debating that there's ANY good, well, I'd have to say you're on pretty shaky ground! If there's another government you'd like to laud, feel free to throw their name into the pot and we'll take a looksee, ok? Q

 

[talons]

Ice, are you American? Do you live in America? If you do you may want to consider moving elsewhere because you certainly can't seem to find any happiness here. Maybe you could try Isreal. Better yet why not Afghanistan see how much better their political situation is. I think you would fit in perfectly over there. I mean after all why stay in a place you seem to hate so much and critcize so often. Better yet name the place you could have it better than you could here.

 

[shark]

Let's see....a couple idiots in the US make us the equivalent of the Palestinians?

Since the US isn't perfect it's a nest of terrorists?

And you can't tell the difference between our culture and theirs?

Blind isn't how I would describe this situation.

 

[ShiningIce]

Q : I never said our country wasnt the best I just dont think our faults should be overlooked and some would present a false sense of perfection for this country.

Talons : Who said I couldnt find happiness in this country?? Last time I checked You were aloud to speak your mind in this country without being told to leave.....



Shark : I didnt say I couldnt tell the differenec between cultures. I ment on a more individual level. I never said the U.S. was a nest for terrorists, I simply said we had faults! and werent a utopia we sometimes make oursleves out to be.

 

[qjakal]

A country tune...

As long as we keep working towards being better, that's all one can reasonably ask of a group as large as a "nation". If I read your implication incorrectly, sorry, but it seems that you're a bit down on the USA, and thats odd considering it IS the best around...nowhere near perfect, agreed, but still the best. It's unfortunate that, just as with many families, it takes a tragedy to begin the process of introspection in the mass of the nation. We have made a LOT of progress....if we could forge the Churches into the type of organizations they're capable of becoming, I think we could advance at a better pace. Perhaps this latest crisis in the Catholic Church will have an upside...eventually. Q

 

[kurchatovium]

I feel again were back to this argument of we are not perfect, they are not perfect therefore we are the same. Let us think I am not perfect, Charles Manson is not perfect.....no I'm still a much better than ol' Charlie. Hmmmm....I am not perfect, Timothy Mcveigh was not perfect.........no I'm still a much better person than him too. This moral equivalency thing is really starting to get on my nerves. We are a lot better, a whole lot better, orders of magnitude better than those who send young kids to blow themselves up or use babies and women as human shields. The difference is not a thin line but rather a canyon. No one in the US goverment coerced those kids into killing the students at Columbine it was a decision they made on their own. Same with Timothy Mcveigh, he as individual decided to something very evil, the US did not urge him into doing it. The Palestinian Authority is coercing kids and poor people to blow themselves up which makes them bad and us good.

 

[Deleted member 2452]

ok ice where is it better?

btw ice, only one teacher was killed at columbine, and that was due to his trying to stop them. they only wanted to kill their tormentors. that is still wrong, but they didn't blow up a restaurant, or kids toy store, where one worked. they went after the bullies only.

now since you started this tangent, where exactly do you think it's better than here ice? and if it's so worderfull there, why are you still here?? why is it that people from all over the world are trying to come here, if we're not so great? people die trying to get here! because they know something you don't; America is the greatest land in the world! you can be anything, make anything of yourself. not golden? well if not, then sterling silver at least.
i fought for this country, i've killed for this country. and i'll be happy to pay for your ticket out if you find it so oppresive.

steve

 

[maverick83]

I don't think moral equivalency is the issue, here. It's more that our society is guilty of the same actions that promote terrorist attacks in other countries. Why don't they promote those attacks here? Because of our form of government, which, I agree, is excellent, quite possibly the best. (And I'm glad we don't have those kinds of attacks here.) The very same style of manipulation used to inspire terrorist attacks in the mid east is used here to tell people what to believe. The reason we don't engage in violent attacks here is that our society has deemed it wrong, so that belief is also forced on us. Anyone who doesn't agree with the beliefs of their society is basically made to feel like an outcast. From what I can see, that is the case throughout the world.

 

[shark]

Beliefs "forced" upon us? We are the culturally diverse society we are precisely because nobody forces you to believe anything.How you are raised or educated is one thing.....you become an adult and can embrace any beliefs you want.

The closest thing to manipulation we have here is this political correctness malarkey.The only reason it is having success is that many of the subscribers are in position to do implement it.Much of the rest of the population is fed up with it to varying degrees and won't be herded in.

Our society deems it wrong to rob,rape,murder,and commit arson.The people doing this decided that they would do their own thing.It shows that,since they are the minority,the basic beliefs in our society are strong and righteous.Otherwise,the society would fail at some point.
Despite our problems,we're nowhere close.

There is no better illustration than seeing how many people try to enter the US legally and otherwise.There are other countries where things are pretty sound and they have people knocking on their doors.Do you see anyone,other than terrorists and their supporters,trying to enter Palestine?

As far as perfection,it doesn't exist in this world and never will,so there is little use wasting time and effort finding it...it should be spent striving for excellence.

 

[JoBelle]

homicide bomber
Strelnikov

Ari Fliecher was using this term recently, and I'm glad to see that I'm not the only other one. These aren't suicide bombers. If they could figure out a way to live and still complete the missions, they WOULD.