The New Puritans (rant)

[Strelnikov]

Tolerance and nonjudgementalism are articles of faith among progressive thinkers. High culture is no better than low, education no better than ignorance, civilized behavior no better than barbarism, marriage no better than other sexual arrangements. There are only differences of opinion.

They make exception in health related matters. The New Puritans have nothing but scorn for fat folks and smokers. They've become Health Nazis, and especially Tobacco Nazis. But which is really the problem? Let's illustrate with a thought experiment.

Say there's two 15 year old girls. One has just been knocked up by her weasel boy friend. The other has just smoked her first cigarette.

The first girl will likely drop out of school. That means that she will always be poor, because she won't be able to find anything but unskilled low-wage jobs - if she can even find those. The smoker? Maybe she'll get suspended for smoking in the john, but that won't stop her from graduating.

The first girl can't use marriage to lift herself out of poverty. Young men with better prospects may dally (ahem!) with her, but they'll look elsewhere for a wife. She'll have a succession of live-in boyfriends and punch out a few more bastard children. The kids will grow up with serial stepfathers - in other words, without a constant caring adult male presence in their lives. The smoker? No effect that I've ever seen.

In 20 or 25 years, the first girl's sons will be the current generation of street thugs and lowlife. Her daughters will be the current generation of welfare mothers. The smoker? Maybe by now she's noticing some shortness of breath.

I ask again, which of these girls has the bigger problem? Why is there more effort expended on teen smoking than on illegitimacy? And why haven't the American electorate noticed that the New Puritans are full of shit?

Strelnikov

 

[Dave2112]

It seems that there's always a "bandwagon" cause that creeps up every few years, and smoking is our current one. It's like Kyle's Mom (The Biggest Bitch in the Whole Wide World) said after starting World War III..."It doesn't matter how many people die, just as long as they don't use filthy language." We don't want our kids exposed to anything remotely sexual, but we allow (hell, we encourage) them to watch violence. A TV show can get away with explosions, limb-hacking, assinine stunts, combat, decapitation, mutilation, weapons and torture...just as long as there's no skin showing.

 

[JoBelle]

If you are a 13 year old girl in our society right now, you see several messages.

One being that the female ideal is something akin to Britney Spears. No, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with her looks. She's a beautiful girl. HOWEVER, the money is in marketing her to teenagers. Girls and Boys. I recall reading about an appalling number of billions of expendable dollars held in the clutches of those citizens that won't see the first wrinkle on their face for at least 15 years. In essense, for the exchange of the almighty dollars we are teaching our young girls to be tarts at a very young age (i.e. 9-10 y.o.)The fact thatwe've always taught our boys that tarts are tasty....well, that doens't help the promiscuity issue.

Another thing our young girls are seeing is that their mothers are barely twice their age. Hmmmm...yes...we're breeding a second and third generation of teenage mothers. When gramdma is 45, mom is 30 and grand daughter is pregnant...something is seriously wrong, but they, teens, aren't going to be able to see it. "Hasn't it always
been this way?"

Third, A few years ago we saw a movement in this country to push girls toward traditionally male dominated careers. What happened to that? It wasn't popular so it went bye-bye. Some people may not believe it, but young girls do talk about these things. Many of the girls in their teens now are largely unaware of the struggles the generations prior to them encountered to get more even playing ground. They take for granted such opportunities. This is believed to create a generation of less confident though more independent girls. They feel they can demand their choices be upheld, though the level of judgement seems to be far below their capabilities.

According to the Nation Womens' Health Center, the number one issue that our young girls focus on today is diet/health related. That sounds good until you realize that the only mention in this department is weight gain.(Can we say social pressure here?) Number two is sexual issues (at least MTV has done some good), number 3 is skin problems (hello???) followed by number 4 being alcohol and drug abuse..this includes smoking. Tying for 5th place are mental health (including pregnancy which in the eyes of young teens does not have anything to do with sex and more with a state of mind)) and environmental issues. These numbers have remined such for the last 6 years. Did someone not realize that the system is broken? OF COURSE THEY NOTICED!!! But.....check the cashflow..then you'll realize that concern for sexual issues and prevention of teen pregnancy are not a balanced ratio.

My point in all this rambling is that no one will EVER change this through the pathways of the powers that be. It's going to steadily get worse until there is a movement on the part of the parents (read the adults whether they have kids or not). I'm the last person to blame my problems on "society," but I can certainly be pissed that is going going 180` out from my efforts! The problem here, is that parents as a rule are not going to put forth the effort of change when their kids are only in the system in this vulnerable phase for 4-5 years. Then it become the next parent's problem.

Solution? I'm angry and that doesn't get me far. I work with a group of just under 40 teneage girls. We do peer work, mentoring, counseling, and emergency intervention. It's like pulling TEETH to get the parents to commit. We have teen girls with a craving of a good life and little ability to stand up and take advantage! I hear these stories everyday from young girls. Pressures to have sex...to have sex without condoms specifically. Somewhere the teenage boys of the world have decided that risky sex is cool sex. ?!?!?!? Where the hell does this stuff come from??? We hear girls who are discouraged from Engineering and Law as careers from...get this...PARENTS!...and that just frankly makes me want to hit someone in the throat! At the end of the meetings I can do one of two things....throw my hands in the air and give up, or hope beyond hope that it's helping and just wait and see.

I know this is a bit more focused that the smoking v/s pregnancy rant...but I feel the problem is that the trickle down effect we're seeing in our kids is directly from the moneymaking monsters in the country. "Never bite the hand that feeds ya." Right? What person in a position to make a differnce on a grand scale is going to tell a billion dollar industry to clean up its act?? None that I know of, ufortunately.

And just for the record..no I don't have a teen or pre-teen child. It's just something I feel strongly about.

JO...gracefully stepping off her soapbox.

(Please forgive my typos...I was ranting)

 

[omega]

Did anyone catch the news that the surgeon general and the Secretary of Health wants every American to lose 10 pounds. (That's pounds of weight, not British money, maybe GB should have gone Euro just to avoid confusion here).

Anyway my point is along the lines of previous writers here. We are spending too much energy on weight (which can be an important health issue) when we still need to get the right messages out concerning pregnancy, violence, personal responsibility, etc.

 

[TicklingDuo]

I think one of the biggest problems underlying this entire thing is that the general attitude in our society is one of instant gratification. It has been for many years now. And, we've done our children a terrible disservice by passing it on to them.

If I had been brought up having been basicly brainwashed to think that I can and should have everything I want exactly when and where I want it and that I hold no responsibility for myself or anyone else, I'd probably have been sleeping around and stuff as well. Instead of teaching our young people about reality, morality and responsibility, we've taught them (often by LACK of teaching them) that they are in charge of their own lives and can do anything they like with no consequences.

To take the point of things they're exposed to in the media to another topic. Look how many of our shows portray people as having sex with no commitment (marital or not) from the other person. Seeing this over and over makes it seem ok...and even normal and glamorous. This is especially true when it's being shown to someone who's never been taught to differentiate between right and wrong.

Bottom line...WE are the responsible parties. If we cry foul and stop tuning in to this crap, the tv shows will be cancelled. If we stop our damned laziness and start taking responsibility for our children (collectively), maybe they'll learn something. Though I absolutely can't stand Hillary Clinton, I do agree with her on one point. It DOES take a community to raise a child. If they're hearing different things everywhere they go, they'll just continue to be confused and not know what to do or not do.

Ann
PS - JoBelle...I applaud your efforts. Thanks for working as a part of the solution!

 

[MadKalnod]

The Dirty Little Secret about the Tobacco Nazis...

The Tobacco Nazis aren't even remotely interested in your health. They'll swear up and down that they are, but it's easily proved to be a lie. If they cared so much about the possibility of you getting cancer, why don't they simply ban cigarettes entirely? If the Tobacco Companies are as evil as Michael Moore, that professional instigator of Class Envy who doesn't seem to have missed any meals due to the inherent unfairness of Capitalism, likes to portray in his little propaganda films, then isn't making tobacco as illegal as cocaine or heroin the best thing to do to "protect our children's health?"

But that hasn't been done. And it won't be done, for a simple reason. It's about getting a piece of the action, not health. The State of California recently pursued a man to the Carribbean with more effort than was spent on catching the Unabomber and most serial killers. His crime? Cutting the tax stamps on cigarette packs at his convenience store in half, thus preventing the State from collecting about $2.8 million in cigarette taxes. The truth is, the Anti-Smoking Nazis in Congress and State Gov'ts need people to keep smoking, so that the ever-higher taxes on tobacco can fund their pork-barrel projects.

This is why you won't see any significant Government initiatives to curtail Teen Pregnancy. There's nobody to sue, and the Trial Lawyers can't gorge on the resultant fees in a Class Action Lawsuit feeding frenzy. There's nothing to tax in order to pay for the next raise in salary that Teddy "The Swimmer" Kennedy and his Congressional cohorts vote to give themselves. In fact, the same faction that opposes Tobacco profits so much secretly favors increased teen pregnancy; since it means more and more people becoming dependent upon Government assistance, and they then have a larger pool of guaranteed votes when election time comes. If you're on welfare, and a politician says "My opponent is a heartless man who wants to see your babies starve when he cuts fuding to the programs you can't live without. Vote for me and I'll stop him." guess whose chad you're most likely to punch?

 

[JoBelle]

Thanks Ann,
I appreciate it. I just hope that my 13 y.o. niece will someday turn out better than the statistics say she will....sigh

 

[red indian]

Omega??!!

Britain???......the Euro???....aaaaaagggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!

 

[Strelnikov]

Some of you folks did a better job of ranting against the System than I did. I agree with most of what you say. Disagree with Jo about MTV though - it helps to encourage the demand for constant stimulation and instant gratification, at the expense of responsibility. In fact, you could call the lifestyle pitched to kids these days, "Life as MTV."

My oldest girl is 22, employed, newly engaged, and has never been pregnant or in jail. So far, so good. Now I need to get her 9 yr old sister to the same point in life. I expect no help from the pop culture - just the opposite, in fact - for reasons some of you have stated. And here we intersect with another thread: this country would be a much better place if perhaps 1,000 professors, politicians, media executives, "celebrities", etc. nationwide were converted into Soylent Green.

Strelnikov

 

[JoBelle]

Disagree with Jo about MTV though - it helps to encourage the demand for constant stimulation and instant gratification, at the expense of responsibility. In fact, you could call the lifestyle pitched to kids these days, "Life as MTV."
Strelnikov

That's ok Strel, as I feel much the same way about MTV. It's difficult to have that sarcastic tone in the written word sometimes. MTV is pretty useless in my book, except for the fact that it currently seems to be the ONLY source that many teensagers are seeing of what sex can be. The good *and occasionally the bad* is shown. The alternative? Parents who think that Biology 101 at the local high school will suffice. Sad sad sad. But, I see where you're comin' from.

Jo

 

[omega]

Re: Omega??!!

Britain???......the Euro???....aaaaaagggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!

I figured on a reaction from you red. I was just kidding. Probably what should happen to avoid confusion is for the U.S. to finally go metric like the rest of the whole wide world.

 

[qjakal]

Got it!

Lose weight...don't smoke...sex=bad, image over substance is popular but incorrect, MTV could be a tool for good, but isn't living up to its potential in that area, Euro=bad?, 1000 leftists need to be expunged...damn, that's gonna take me a few years. Lemme get back to you guys on these,okay? Q

Hi Jo! You're working with teens>? Guess nothing I ever say or do will ever be scary to you...lolololol! 😛

 

[red indian]

Well it could be worse omega

You could have a system like we have here where I can order 150m of 4"x2" from a timber yard and no one bats an eyelid!

 

[JoBelle]

Re: Got it!

MTV could be a tool for good, but isn't living up to its potential Hi Jo! You're working with teens>? Guess nothing I ever say or do will ever be scary to you...lolololol! 😛

MTV = The Church?

And Q, I said teen GIRLS....boys still scare me... especially the cute, older bald ones. 😉

Jo

 

[JoBelle]

Red,
You know it's a 2x4, not a 4x2 right? 😉
Jo

 

[P.H. Tickler]

when society tilts to the left...

...parents lose their rights!
The way it should be:
Parents are the last word when it comes to molding the values of their children. Rewards given when earned, and punishment doled out when necessary. I respect my parents, If I got out of line, I'd get an old fashioned ass-whoopin, and I'd try to NOT repeat that behavior.

The Way It IS:
YOU as a parent cannot punish your child for fear of having the government intervene... IF they don't go to school, YOU can't make them, yet YOU will be fined for it. LIBERAL LEGISLATORS SUCK... this same daughter can be transported UNDERAGE across state lines by a "caregiver" for an abortion without the parents consent tho.
So they want the responsibility of raising our kids? then let them spend the money on stupid ad campaigns and other frivolities, once they're 18, they will be society's problem.

The Workaround:
Respect, TWO WAY respect. and two way communication. We (my Wife and I) trust our (2) girls and they trust us. We send them off to school each day knowing that they are aware of the consequences of bad choices, and they knowing they could approach us about anything and get straightforward honest answers. I worry about them every minute of every day, but I know that it's not them I have to worry about, we do our best, and have faith that it's good enough... so far so good. One's 15 and one's 12, they know why we don't want them to smoke, and why it's bad for them, and state be damned, they'd be punished for smoking if we ever caught them.

every session of congress and state senates see our rights as parents eroded even more, sooner or later somebody will be fined for not being able to make their kid go to school and sue... and I HOPE they win MILLIONS.
the rash of school shootings is a sad display of products of the current scheme of things... yet the media go RIGHT AFTER the parents.

sorry about the excessive typing... but it DID say rant 😱

 

[Strelnikov]

150 m of 4 x 2's

Their light switches are wired backward too - up is Off. And they drive on the wrong side of the road.

Strelnikov

 

[omega]

Re: Well it could be worse omega

You could have a system like we have here where I can order 150m of 4"x2" from a timber yard and no one bats an eyelid!

Well now I'm just jealous. I want a local timber yard where I can buy timber instead of lumber.

Whether you measure it 4 x 2 or 2 x 4 the truth is: It is nowhere near 2 and nowhere near 4.

 

[red indian]

Nowhere near ?

Well that depends on whether you order ex or pse. If you order pse it will be exactly 4"x2" (am I the TMF building consultant now?)

 

[red indian]

Quiz question

Any one know the historical reason why we drive on the left? anyway its you guys who drive on the wrong side not us we have roads going back to roman times!

 

[General Zod]

This goes out to the people who says watching violent t.v.and movies causes violent behavior What did Adolph Hitler,Joseph Stalin Mao Tse Tung ,Fidel Castro ,Ghengis Khan etc etc watch to make them violent? I didn't say this to cause any trouble I'm just curius that's all

 

[omega]

Alright, you got me Mr. Red (Bob Villa) Indian.

I don't know why Brits drive on the left side, but I do know why the standard railroad guage is the width that it is.

 

[Strelnikov]

Most people are right handed. In pre-modern times, that made it a good idea to travel on the left side of the road. It puts your shield between you and the cut-throats lurking in the forest, and positions your sword arm where it will do the most good against an approaching enemy.

After armies were reinvented, the columns of troops kept to the left (old custom) and kept the right side of the road open for couriers, etc.

Bonaparte is responsible for the change on the Continent. A marching army is hard on unimproved roads. Bonaparte found that his troops could make better speed pursuing an enemy army if they traveled on the right (unused) side. But the Eagles never got to Britain or Ireland.

Strelnikov

 

[JoBelle]

Strel?
Can I just say, "WOW!" That was about the most obscure, yet interesting paragraph I've read in a long while. Is it true? 😉
Jo

 

[red indian]

Full marks to Strell!!

A very full and accurate answer. Many "Eagles" have tried to get in here over the years but no one has managed it since the romans!

I have no idea why the rail guage is as it is (do tell) most brits are happy just to see something ON the rails to be honest.

Who the f!*& is Bob Villa?