Thor: Love & Thunder. Female heroes are failed again...

[Matt Ramsey]

Nevertheless, the irony of these kinds of discussions on a fetish forum is not lost on me. I just wish society would return to the norm of "discretion".

There is a big difference between writing a dirty story on a and adults only site like this, and doing what Disney is doing with Thor in this movie. All the points Emma made are valid. Mocking a male victim of sexual assault (which Thor is) and having his friends, not just do nothing to help him but actually revel in his misfortune. I don't understand how Jane is worthy of lifting Mjölnir after that? And what does it say about the type of leader Valkyrie when she does nothing to defend one of her own citizens... cause she'd rather see him naked? It really does go to show that Taika Waititi and Jennifer Kaytin Robinson have know idea what writing a hero looks like.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Actually it's very easy. First hire people who.are actually talented writers and directors. Second don't build make your build your female characters by demeaning or degrading your male heroes. Next let your female heroes actually be heroic, and don't make male victimhood a punchline to a jole. Wow, look at that, problem solved.

Good points. And we've seen that numerous strong female characters can be written well without being preachy or contrived. Ripley in the Alien series and Sarah Connor in the Terminator series are like this (although the last Terminator film was atrocious).

Here is a video by a young woman talking about the double standards in Disney.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pIzr0BCJH8M&t=17s

Melonie Mac is pretty cool in general.

 

[MrMacphisto]

There is a big difference between writing a dirty story on a and adults only site like this, and doing what Disney is doing with Thor in this movie. All the points Emma made are valid. Mocking a male victim of sexual assault (which Thor is) and having his friends, not just do nothing to help him but actually revel in his misfortune. I don't understand how Jane is worthy of lifting Mjölnir after that? And what does it say about the type of leader Valkyrie when she does nothing to defend one of her own citizens... cause she'd rather see him naked? It really does go to show that Taika Waititi and Jennifer Kaytin Robinson have know idea what writing a hero looks like.

True enough. The thing about Waititi is that he's good at comedy. He did a great job with Ragnarok. That's one of my favorite Marvel films. Unfortunately, it looks like this upcoming film may suffer from the typical issues of modern writing. We can look at the bad writing of certain films long ago as having misogynistic leanings while depicting women as helpless or infantile, but it would seem that we've gone in the opposite extreme nowadays.

The trope of making men bumbling idiots while women have to be the smart ones is very overdone at this point. It's like how you can't depict a male good guy as capable of physically defeating a female villain. Even Ragnarok fell into this trope, as Critical Drinker pointed out before.

Hiring Robinson is probably the issue when you look at "Sweet/Vicious". I can't say I've watched much of the series, but what little I have seen promotes several tropes that are tired while giving a somewhat inaccurate picture of how accusations of sexual assault work in the justice system. While Thor is unlikely to discuss that topic, that series gives some insight into her worldview, which will have an influence on her writing in other settings.

 

[Matt Ramsey]

True enough. The thing about Waititi is that he's good at comedy. He did a great job with Ragnarok. That's one of my favorite Marvel films. Unfortunately, it looks like this upcoming film may suffer from the typical issues of modern writing. We can look at the bad writing of certain films long ago as having misogynistic leanings while depicting women as helpless or infantile, but it would seem that we've gone in the opposite extreme nowadays.

The trope of making men bumbling idiots while women have to be the smart ones is very overdone at this point. It's like how you can't depict a male good guy as capable of physically defeating a female villain. Even Ragnarok fell into this trope, as Critical Drinker pointed out before.

Hiring Robinson is probably the issue when you look at "Sweet/Vicious". I can't say I've watched much of the series, but what little I have seen promotes several tropes that are tired while giving a somewhat inaccurate picture of how accusations of sexual assault work in the justice system. While Thor is unlikely to discuss that topic, that series gives some insight into her worldview, which will have an influence on her writing in other settings.

Ragnarok sucked ass. It was something like 2.5 hours long and maybe had a decent 30 minutes sporadically in it
Thor's "that's what heroes do" speech with Surtur. Thor vs Hulk in the arena. And that scene in the credits where Thanos's ship shows up. The vast majority of the movie is struggling to make Thor come across as stupid as possible.

 

[magic fingers]

Ragnarok sucked ass. It was something like 2.5 hours long and maybe had a decent 30 minutes sporadically in it
Thor's "that's what heroes do" speech with Surtur. Thor vs Hulk in the arena. And that scene in the credits where Thanos's ship shows up. The vast majority of the movie is struggling to make Thor come across as stupid as possible.

Ragnarok was an awesome flick. You sound like you're not happy unless you're complaining or attacking someone.

 

[Matt Ramsey]

Ragnarok was an awesome flick. You sound like you're not happy unless you're complaining or attacking someone.

Iron Man 1 & 2 were awesome , The Incredible Hulk.was Awesome, all 4 Avengers movies were awesome. There isn't enough booze on earth to make me enjoy Ragnarok.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Ragnarok sucked ass. It was something like 2.5 hours long and maybe had a decent 30 minutes sporadically in it
Thor's "that's what heroes do" speech with Surtur. Thor vs Hulk in the arena. And that scene in the credits where Thanos's ship shows up. The vast majority of the movie is struggling to make Thor come across as stupid as possible.

To each their own, I suppose. I have a friend who thought it was too silly as well, but for me, I felt that it balanced superhero metaplot stuff with comedy well.

That being said, I really like Jeff Goldblum, Karl Urban, and Cate Blanchett, so the casting alone already mostly won me over.

 

[Matt Ramsey]

To each their own, I suppose. I have a friend who thought it was too silly as well, but for me, I felt that it balanced superhero metaplot stuff with comedy well.

That being said, I really like Jeff Goldblum, Karl Urban, and Cate Blanchett, so the casting alone already mostly won me over.

No doubt there was an amazing cast of people, (to bad nobody on the writing had never read a single issue of a Marvel comic) unfortunately Taika Waititi was the director, and he was mostly concerned with making Thor look as dumb as possible, something that is most likely going to carry over to the new film thanks to Jennifer Kaytin Robinson inability to write a "strong female character" so she simply burries the males by making look like incompetent sitcom dads (do I even need to explain what I mean by that?). Again, I'll point out, the trailer in question, that started all this, does show Thor being abused by Zeus. What Zeus does is sexual assault (Referred to as Level 1 in Canadian law) and it is being used for comedic purposes which would never happen in the case of a female character (except in the case of old British farce comedies, and the tide tends to be turned in some way on the guy to level things out).

It's very similar to when Diana walked in on Steve Trevor while he was bathing. It was unheroic of her to stand there ogling her charge in such a manor. John Wayne never would have done that, in fact he'd probably refuse to do it it if was in script to begin with, cause it would be classless. The same is true in the case of Valkyrie and Jane Foster. The moment Thor's cloths came off that hammer should have been heading for Zeus head, and the heroins should have jumped into action. Everything else could have been pretty much the same up to that point and it wouldn't have been so bad, but they way they did it made the two female leads look horrific, and made Jane unworthy of wielding Mjölnir.