Tickle Gathering Safety

[Sunriseticklee]

Summer time and sandal weather is here! I know that some of you are looking forward to the sun filled vacations and reunions, maybe meeting people for the first time who are into tickling just like you are! 🙂

I have a question for everyone who has ever hosted a tickle gathering, or who may host them in the near future.

I can only imagine the time planning, the promoting, the funding... well you know, doing all that you do to put a gathering together.

What I would like to know is:

1) <B>What types of measures do you (would you) take before and during a gathering to keep everyone comfortable and safe?</B>

How would you handle rowdy guests, guests who are breaking your house rules (friends are not)?

How would you handle a rough tickler?

Or even a situation where the ticklee gets hurt?

For those of you who have never gone to gatherings, I don't mean to alarm you, but sometimes these things happen. To be honest, even I suffered a concussion at a West Coast Gathering. And although no one seemed to be at fault, and many of us crack jokes about it, as a bound lee, the unbound lers had a job to keep me safe. They were the ones who I trusted most of my element of control to. And banging my head on a hard bookshelf looking headboard.... OUCH!

Another question is:
2) <B>If you find someone who has annoyed you, broken your rules, caused problems at your gathering, how do you confront and resolve the situation?</B>

When and how do you speak to them?

Pull them aside quietly?

Email them the next day?

Or do you say nothing, keep your complaints to yourself and wait months later until someone else is hosting a gathering, and then you finally get the "guts" to speak up and say that person hurt your feelings, made you mad, or did something wacky to be banned from your functions. (With the person having no idea what is going on?)

Speaking of being banned, one last question:
<B>3) How does one qualify for being banned from gatherings?</B>

Is it like... for example:
If you hear that "Johnny X" supposedly drunk 3 beers at "Sally Sue's Southern Tickle Fest", and that same "Johnny X" drooled on 2 ticklees while trying to tickle them. And if you hear from "Sally Sue" that she has banned "Johnny X" from her "Southern Tickle Fest" FOREVER!!!!!!!!! Do you ban "Johnny X" too? Based on what exactly?

I'm just curious about how the hosts and hostesses manage to run a party and keep everyone safe at the same time, and what happens if/ when things get out of hand.

Thank you for your reply,
Sunrise


Oh and by the way.... if there is anyone who is being "banned" or even accused of doing anything to hurt, violate, or disrespect <U>ME</U> while I was at a gathering, I would hope the gathering host/hostess would consult me about it instead of relying on rumors, lies, petty jealousies and bias from others. Thanks 😀

 

[drew70]

I'm sure Jan, Max, and some of the others are better qualified to answer this question and I look forward to their responses.

First and formost, I would heavily regulate the spiritual condiments:

Alcohol - Absolutely none at all. Alcohol lessens the inhibitions, and let's face it, turns many of us into stark raving assholes. No alcohol.

Marijuana - Probably not a good idea. Legalities aside, pot would make the gathering too listless. While the snacks, drinks, and videos would be more enjoyable, the tickle play wouldn't be as exciting.

Cocaine - Would be great for tickle play for both lee and ler, but might be dangerous for the lees, particularly those with weak hearts. Make sure they sign a liability waver. Traditional powdered form only. No crack.

LSD - Only for the lees. Can you imagine the possibilities?

Secondly, regarding rough behavior, or any infringement of the rules, I would clearly announce the "three strikes your out" policy. Two warnings, then on the third offense kick his out. Again, make certain to effectively communicate the rules as well as your commitment to enforcing them. If you don't serve alcohol, this will greatly reduce the likelihood of such instances.

 

[TicklingDuo]

Some good questions....with a variety of possible answers.

The first thing that should be understood is that, no matter what gathering you look at, one thing should be the same throughout... <b>.THE TICKLEE IS ALWAYS THE ONE TO SET RULES FOR WHAT IS OR IS NOT DONE TO THEM...EVEN IF THAT RULE IS THAT THERE WILL BE NO RULES.</b> Anything outside of that is generally considered a breach of the rules...and is legally considered to be sexual assault. It's also potentially very dangerous on a number of levels, which is why it's taken so seriously. That having been said......

What I would like to know is:
1) What types of measures do you (would you) take before and during a gathering to keep everyone comfortable and safe?

Most gatherings have a set of rules that are posted and should be agreed to before folks are cleared to come. Those rules are often re-read at the start of the gathering as well. Since we're all adults here and people are perfectly capable of understanding things, those rules shouldn't be too complicated for them. But, if any are, clarification can/should be given. A gathering with no rules (even unwritten ones) is a disaster waiting to happen. We've seen repeatedly here in the forums how many ideas/attitudes people have about what is or isn't acceptable in tickle play. Someone walking into a gathering expecting one thing and finding another could possibly be traumatized by the experience. That's one reason for rules to be set and followed.

How would you handle rowdy guests, guests who are breaking your house rules (friends are not)? How would you handle a rough tickler?

Ideally, these folks should be quietly pulled to the side ans spoken with at the time and given a warning that the specific behavior should stop. If it continues, they should be asked to leave. Being human, we don't always do this as we could/should. Concern about hurt feelings or people creating a scene always seem to play into things to some degree. Those who are more experienced at dealing with others definitely have the upper hand here.

I've personally neglected to handle things properly in the past on an occassion when I made the mistake of going ahead with a get together while I was sick. There's a little rule that a spiritual director once told me. It's called the "HALTS" rule...Never make a decision or confrontation when you are hungry, angry, lonely, tired or sick. My decision to not reschedule a gathering <b>knowing</b> that I wasn't 100% (or even 50%) was a foolish one...esp. since there had been repeated concerns voiced about one of the guests. While nobody was injured on a physical level, it created a lot of chaos and hurt feelings after the fact. This is also a reason to have a team that runs things rather than a single individual.

As for specificly rough tickling...there's nothing inherently wrong with that. There are many who prefer it. There are also many who do not. Again, it's the <b>LEE</b> who should be making that decision. If a lee prefers rougher tickling, that's cool. If a lee does not want the tickling to be rough, then that MUST be honored. In many cases, there are medical reasons for not wanting it rough. If that isn't honored, the person could be seriously injured. There are also social reasons for not allowing rougher play...not being able to take a chance at bruising, etc. A person who is unwilling to do anything other than rough tickling should find a different lee to play with and NOT go against the parameters set by any ticklee. Someone who is childish enough to demand their way reguardless of what the LEE thinks is a danger and should not be allowed. (This also applies to those who decide that it has to include sexual contact when the person has said that they are to honor specific boundaries.)

Or even a situation where the ticklee gets hurt?

We have things set up for our gatherings to ensure that we have any emergency/health info. that could be needed in advance in case anyone gets sick or hurt in any way. This is in our survey form and is simply kept handy in case it's needed. If it isn't, the information is destroyed so there is no chance of others seeing it. First aid supplies are close at hand and at least one person present should know what they're doing with it (and ideally be first aid and CPR certified). If anyone ever did get hurt in any way, they would be cared for as needed and professional help sought if necessary. At the same time, we'd try to keep things outside of that going so that there is no embarassment from others watching what's going on.

Another question is:
2) If you find someone who has annoyed you, broken your rules, caused problems at your gathering, how do you confront and resolve the situation?
When and how do you speak to them? Pull them aside quietly? Email them the next day?

Or do you say nothing, keep your complaints to yourself and wait months later until someone else is hosting a gathering, and then you finally get the "guts" to speak up and say that person hurt your feelings, made you mad, or did something wacky to be banned from your functions. (With the person having no idea what is going on?)

This varies according to what's occurred and the people involved. Again, ideally, the issue would be addressed at the time or shortly after. In the situation I mentioned above (when I was sick), we had a problem that I didn't address properly at the time. I said something quietly as the activity was taking place, was ignored and decided to leave the room rather than lose my temper...which I was dangerously close to doing.

I e-mailed the person a few days later when I was feeling better and able to express the issues clearly and calmly. Things continued well down the road after getting no response from the person. (The person said they hadn't received any of my e-mails.) Unfortunately, that situation went public when the person listed me publicly as someone who could vouch for their safety. Rather than letting others walk into a potentially dangerous situation thinking that my assumed support meant they were safe (since I make a very big point of pushing safety), I made the VERY difficult choice of setting the record straight in the same public space where it had been voiced.

That situation was never resolved to <b>anyone's</b> satisfaction. I feel bad that it happened at all. I lost two friends as a result. I'm sure there are some out there who think I'm a total b*tch for doing so. If it saves one person from an unpleasant or dangerous experience, so be it!

If folks are open and honest with one another, minor incidents can be easily resolved and offended parties satisfied. If they make excuses and try to avoid taking responsibility for minor incidents, the question is rightly raised about their ability to properly handle more serious incidents. That kind of person is a potential danger and MUST be guarded against...no matter who they may be.

Speaking of being banned, one last question:
3) How does one qualify for being banned from gatherings?

Is it like... for example:
If you hear that "Johnny X" supposedly drunk 3 beers at "Sally Sue's Southern Tickle Fest", and that same "Johnny X" drooled on 2 ticklees while trying to tickle them. And if you hear from "Sally Sue" that she has banned "Johnny X" from her "Southern Tickle Fest" FOREVER!!!!!!!!! Do you ban "Johnny X" too? Based on what exactly?

Gatherings are <b>private</b> parties. Contrary to popular opinion, nobody has a right to assume that they are going to be welcomed into a private party...even if they know the person. Screening should precede a gathering for the sake of trying to ensure that desired level of comfort and safety for the guests who will be attending.

As part of that screening process having heard from a number of others that a person has proven unable to honor rules/boundaries/whatever (and esp. if they seem unable or unwilling to face the need for a change of atttitude), they most likely will be asked to sit out a gathering to help make the point hit home. If there is a change in attitude after that, they may be welcomed back later on. Most people are not permanently banned from gatherings, simply suspended for a time to give them a chance to look at things and correct the situation that caused the suspension.

Many of us who host gatherings also share information with one another as kind of a think tank. We may talk about about what went well, what didn't, what works for us, what doesn't, etc. As a part of doing that, people who have proven a difficulty or a help at a particular gathering may be discussed. It alerts other hosts to what they might expect from a person they may not know yet.

There are some people who come across as harsh (or even obnoxious) online but are very much good and fun people in person. If this person ends up at a gathering and is seen to be fine in person, that information is happily shared to avoid others making incorrect assumptions based on limitted information. Many issues like this can be cleared up by sharing information rather than the host assuming the person to be a jerk and not allowing them to attend. Sharing what we personally know of a person who may be asked about is a big help when you don't know people outside of a forum or chat room.

BUT... The thing to remember here (again) is that these are <b>private</b> parties...even if they're held in a seemingly public venue. It is the decision of each individual hosts to choose who will/won't be welcomed at their gatherings. One may decide that the person needs to sit things out for a time. Another may think the issue is not a big deal and let them in anyway.

Suspending or banning a person is not something that is taken lightly. It is just as important to consider as any other safety aspect of a gathering. The purpose of doing so is twofold...

1) It acts to protect the others who would otherwise have possibly been subjected to undesired or potentially dangerous behavior.

2) It gives the person an added incentive to take an honest look at what took place and (hopefully) enable them to change their ways and come back to even more enjoyable play in the future.

I personally think it would be great if everyone who's ever been suspended could see the reason for it, make the necessary adjustments and be able to be welcomed back!

OK, I've said enough! lol I hope this helps to clarify things a bit.

Ann

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Quotes originally posted by TicklingDuo in bold

<B>The first thing that should be understood is that, no matter what gathering you look at, one thing should be the same throughout... <b>.THE TICKLEE IS ALWAYS THE ONE TO SET RULES FOR WHAT IS OR IS NOT DONE TO THEM...EVEN IF THAT RULE IS THAT THERE WILL BE NO RULES.</b></B>

Absolutely true. But if a ticklee feels violated, misused or unsafe and doesn't say anything to the person about it until days, weeks, months later how was the Ler supposed to know? And of course, all the problems could have been avoided if the lee just spoke up and said... EXCUSE ME... back off. Thanks 🙂 or at least told someone so they could handle it as well. (That, of course, still doesn't justify the Ler's actions, but keeping quiet doesn't open eyes for change either.)

<B> A gathering with no rules (even unwritten ones) is a disaster waiting to happen.</B>

Agreed

<B>That situation was never resolved to <b>anyone's</b> satisfaction. I feel bad that it happened at all. I lost two friends as a result. I'm sure there are some out there who think I'm a total b*tch for doing so. If it saves one person from an unpleasant or dangerous experience, so be it!</B>

Sure, that is one way to look at it. Any person, who may (or may not) have been aware of only offending you, found out in a worst possible way that there was a lynch mob of angry hosts and guests who suddenly thought he/she was evil incarnate. A private situation was shared in public and then other people started coming out of the woodwork to add stories of their own. Next thing you know, this person supposedly violated about 10 people. Including me, someone he/she only tickled for like 2 minutes.

And as a result of some of the simpering, gossiping, liars, backbiters, and back stabbing people in the community, this same person lost more than just you as a friend. Sure everyone is responsible for their actions and consequences, but I don't think the power to pass out consequences, sentences, and justice was given to the "Hosting List Godfathers" or to anyone else in this community.

(Have we elected a mayor yet? 😛 )

Advice is fine and concern is fine, but when someone who is supposed to be my equal decides to rise up and become the persecutor, judge, jury, and god of my fate, then that is ridiculous, and wrong.

Never invite me back to your house? Hey... that is YOUR right, and that's fine with me.

Tell me you hate my guts? Once again, fine!

Say, I have to come back to you and grovel later after I have "redeemed myself in the eyes of the community" That's giving mere humans the power to determine who can be forgiven or not, who is truly repentant or not. Who is good enough, and who just isn't.
But hey, all of that fits into the sense of community here, right?
Does it? Hmmmm....

<B>Gatherings are <b>private</b> parties. Contrary to popular opinion, nobody has a right to assume that they are going to be welcomed into a private party...even if they know the person. Screening should precede a gathering for the sake of trying to ensure that desired level of comfort and safety for the guests who will be attending.

As part of that screening process having heard from a number of others that a person has proven unable to honor rules/boundaries/whatever (and esp. if they seem unable or unwilling to face the need for a change of attitude), they most likely will be asked to sit out a gathering to help make the point hit home. If there is a change in attitude after that, they may be welcomed back later on. Most people are not permanently banned from gatherings, simply suspended for a time to give them a chance to look at things and correct the situation that caused the suspension. </B>

So it's like "tickling violation rehab". Except without the caring counselors who stick by you and encourage you through, you've got, instead, everyone ignoring you and shunning you until they feel like you've learned your lesson. Hmmmmmmm, interesting.

<B>Many of us who host gatherings also share information with one another as kind of a think tank. We may talk about what went well, what didn't, what works for us, what doesn't, etc. As a part of doing that, people who have proven a difficulty or a help at a particular gathering may be discussed. It alerts other hosts to what they might expect from a person they may not know yet.

There are some people who come across as harsh (or even obnoxious) online but are very much good and fun people in person. If this person ends up at a gathering and is seen to be fine in person, that information is happily shared to avoid others making incorrect assumptions based on limited information. Many issues like this can be cleared up by sharing information rather than the host assuming the person to be a jerk and not allowing them to attend. Sharing what we personally know of a person who may be asked about is a big help when you don't know people outside of a forum or chat room.</B>

So safety issues are not the only things that determines who is accepted into the circle of private tickling parties or who is pushed away? I am now to assume that it is also the personality, or if you will, personality conflicts that occur between host and guest?

If you invite me to a party and I don't break any of the rules, but you just didn't like me to hot, you can tell everyone on the list, and because it is just oh-so-very-hard for that host-listing someone to get to know me him/herself and make a separate opinion on me, then that other host may or may not influence my next tickle gathering fate. Hmmmmmmm......

I think I understand some of this better now. Tickling parties are private parties, but not private matters. You get together to discuss and decide who can come and who can not, but the discussions themselves are held between people on a (once secret) private hosting list. You (the list) also privately decide who is too dangerous to attend gatherings, and who has redeemed him/herself, or who is still on tickle suspension until further notice.

I've got it. Ultimately, despite the rumors, advice, and opinions, the gathering host makes the decision on who to invite.

How simple is that. Course I don't think everyone who hosts tickle munches/ gatherings are on the "gathering host email list". How do you choose who is honorable enough to be added, and who is not? How does one get removed from the list?

Well thank you both for your replies. Drew you are bigger than me. I don't believe in letting someone mess up 3 times in a row before I take drastic action. (One warning, maybe)

Thank you,
Sunrise

 

[Limeoutsider]

So, about this vouching for a person, what if the person has never been to a gathering? And its one of the types thats obniouxious (sp?) on line? Do you take a chance? or do you jsut flat out say 'no'?

 

[venray]

Personality conflicts are between the host in question and the person in question and not a factor in determining who will or will not be invited.

The only thing that would keep someone out is an incident of ignoring the rules and even then it is the host who has the final say....


Ven

 

[TicklingDuo]

LOL....I'll keep my response in private, Sun. There have obviously been some miscommunications and misinformation. It's easier resolved without the involvement of more of the same. 😉

Ann

 

[dvnc]

Wow, Sunrise. Do ya mean to direct this at me? You have. I'm hurt. Disappointed, too.

My West Coast Gatherings list IS voluntary. Why haven't you asked to be removed? Sounds like you found them FAR too questionable.

I'm sorry you feel I and my other hosts mistreated you. I'm sure I won't have to worry about that again. You need only not attend any more of these questionable events. Sounds like you've some notion of folk that will treat you better, and I encourage you to go there, soon and often.

I await your request for removal. Safety first, and all that.

 

[JoBelle]

What an interesting thread.

As a person who has hosted several gatherings, I thought I'd pop in an comment on a couple of things if that's OK?

Obviously, this thread was another public airing of an unfortunate combination of events in which all persons actually involved have an opinion...not to mention a lot of others who only know perhaps part of the story. We're all guilty of such actions. I know I am, so yep, I'm casting stones. I also think that for those persons DIRECTLY affected by the actions of others, it's still an open wound. The three or four "legs" of the situation all tied together in a weird convoluted way it would seem. As a result many people are affected. For example, I can speak for myself in that an email address that I was very cautious with ended up in the hands of a bunch of people…some that I didn't even know. And the ones I DID know that emailed me would have had my addy prior if I felt I wanted them to have it. Talk about a pain in the ass to correct...and it's still causing me grief.

So, let's remember that a lot of people have a stake in hoping for things to settle down...be they inconsequential or not. One of these things is the false illusion that exists now that

"power to pass out consequences, sentences, and justice was given to the "Hosting List Godfathers"

Sunrise, this is simply not true. The list you mention was intended to improve things. Everyone that chose to be a part of it did so with the intent to make gatherings more public, more welcoming, less stressful. Hmph! As we can see, that goal was totally knocked out of line.

As with ANY new group, organization, or what have you, there is a time period of "feeling things out" and "finding the right course" that will include some mistakes. Given that the hosts had only been communicating for a matter of days when this particular event happened is no surprise. One might expect an intelligent person to have understood that with so many different personalities merging there would be a lot of comparing notes on experiences. It's how we learn in society. It's what we do with the shared information that makes the difference in how things turn out in the end.


**self edit**

I find it utterly amusing that people find things a wonderful idea until they aren't a part of it. Then it's a horror of horrors. ESPECIALLY, if inserting one's own foot in one's mouth caused the dissociation.

When I host a gathering, I do so knowing that no matter how well I may know someone online, I can be surprised, as I mentioned above. Therefore, I would think that any rational person would also take the word of another person who was willing to put reputation and privacy on the line for the sake of a get together. Until you are willing to take the risk yourself, you may want to remember that experience makes one’s opinions more credible.

I’ve held my opinions through a variety of threads that hinted at things that were blatantly stated in this one. I just thought that since I was directly affected by parts of it that I had a right to comment. I didn’t mean to intrude on anyone’s assumptions or opinion based on limited information. Please…do continue. I find it interesting as I said at the outset of this post.

I'm sure I have other things to say, but I'm stopping before I get riled up.

There is a REASON most of my "gatherings" are private non-advertised events. 🙄

Jo

 

[Limeoutsider]

I dont go to gatherings bc I know I'm shy and I'd probably sit in a corner and ignore people, and if someone did talk to me, all I'd reply is "yes, no, & ok"

 

[TicklingDuo]

So, about this vouching for a person, what if the person has never been to a gathering? And its one of the types thats obniouxious (sp?) on line? Do you take a chance? or do you jsut flat out say 'no'?

Unless the person has directly offended the host in question, they are likely to be given the benefit of the doubt if there's room for more people. Since having not been to a gathering before applies to the vast majority of folks here, it's not realistic for people to have been met in person. But, when they HAVE been, we try to share the applicable facts with one another. Again, someone who comes across in a negative manner online isn't necessarily bad to have at a gathering. So, yes...chances are sometimes taken. If we automaticly eliminated anyone who'd ever gone overboard with things or acted rashly, none of US would be there either. We aren't perfect and don't claim to be. Nor do we expect others to be. We simply expect normal everyday courtesy towards others to be exercised at events that we work hard to put together for people.

Ann

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Wow, Sunrise. Do ya mean to direct this at me? You have. I'm hurt. Disappointed, too.

My West Coast Gatherings list IS voluntary. Why haven't you asked to be removed? Sounds like you found them FAR too questionable.

I'm sorry you feel I and my other hosts mistreated you. I'm sure I won't have to worry about that again. You need only not attend any more of these questionable events. Sounds like you've some notion of folk that will treat you better, and I encourage you to go there, soon and often.

I await your request for removal. Safety first, and all that.

Wow DVNC, I’m so glad you care. sigh. Makes me wanna just break down and repent for speaking my mind about a couple of questions that in a general sense had nothing to do with you.

Just because I used my concussion as an example doesn't mean you have to be offended or have ya wee little feelings "hurt". I mean, people DO get injured every once in a while at a gathering. Are you denying that? Of course you aren't, you wouldn't. That'd just be crazy.

And yet and still, even after the incident and all the jokes (Sure, I cracked jokes too!) had passed, I HAD still chosen to associate with west coast people. (Oh my!) And I still attended gatherings where I got to see those West Coast people again (You don't say!). And (God forbid) if I don't still see a very precious few of them as some of my closest friends. But does that mean I cannot point out that people do get hurt? Maybe not to you, it doesn't, but to me.....

Now, I could see if I got on TMF and told bold faced lies about it. But nothing from my quote was a lie. It <u>is</U> the responsibility for the Lers to look after their lees at all times.

Does that mean accidents will not happen? Doesn't mean that at all.

Does it mean that whenever accidents/ injuries occur that every person involved should be deemed as unsafe and reviewed by the "hosting list gurus" to determine whether or not they should be invited to each and every gathering in the continental United States? Some folks like to think so.

And hey, since you seem oh so disappointed. I just wanted you to know that I'm all healed up now, it being three years ago. And although it was an "accident", and I made it out just fine, and I didn't harbor any hard feelings toward anyone for it happening, I equally don't see anything so wrong in regards to talking about it.

It is so strange, this sudden disappointment that people have in me. You'd think I was just going on a tangent lying about people and calling folks names... you know, things like that. Hmmm..... Why exactly are you disappointed in me? I know it surely couldn't be the fact that I mentioned I did get hurt. I mean, that's been posted on TMF and mentioned here time and time again. It's been funny for a hellava long time. Why is it so upsetting now? Weird.

And as for your West Coast Gatherings list, I don't get the emails anyway, haven't for months (probably about a year) so if you do care enough to remove me, I wouldn't even know about it.

And as for the "problem" of your hosts "mistreating" me, as <u>you</u> say, and me having the ability to no longer attend the events, as you say, I don't remember the <u>last time</u> I emailed you or any of your host/hostesses to ask to come to an event.

It is sort of like this. The people who know me, who are my real friends, don't let their agenda, their hosting, their so called "hurt feelings", their gathering lists, jealousies, and lies get in the way of our friendship.

I promise you, they will continue to be my friends. It has nothing to do with tickling or lack of it. It has nothing to do with the fact that I have something tangible, oh so great to offer them, or what tangible thing I can turn around and milk from my friends. It has nothing to do with how many times my friend can kiss my butt and cover up, tone down the obvious. (My real friends tell me the truth, even if I don't like how it sounds, and yet they do it in such a way that I know they still love me.)

The true friends that I have, east coast, west coast, international or whatever will continue to be my friend whether I am "popular" or in with the "hosting list" or not, or whether or not I am ever invited or accepted to go to another gathering again.

I suggest instead of assuming something, you flat out ask/email me what I am referring to. You know my email address, and I'm not one to bite my tongue. You have a question for me, feel free. (Ya might not want to use the same email list that I am NOT getting messages from. Heehee) But as always, you being a free agent in all, you are open and able to believe whatever you want to believe, truth, lies, fantasy, or otherwise and not ask me not one little thing.

Sunrise

 

[Sunriseticklee]

One of these things is the false illusion that exists now that Sunrise, this is simply not true. The list you mention was intended to improve things. Everyone that chose to be a part of it did so with the intent to make gatherings more public, more welcoming, less stressful. Hmph! As we can see, that goal was totally knocked out of line.

I'm sure that the goal of the "hosting list" in the beginning was to be an information line utilized as a source for improvement. My only problem came in when someone who I thought could be trusted as a friend used my name to twist what I said in confidence, and feed someone else negative information. I don't think spreading hurtful rumors about what Sunrise said about you is improving anything, goal or not.

Sure there are other aspects that seem suspect and that I may not particularly like, but I can't really be too pissed about them because they have nothing to do with me. That doesn't mean I can't say I disagree or agree with something though.

<QUOTE>As with ANY new group, organization, or what have you, there is a time period of "feeling things out" and "finding the right course" that will include some mistakes. Given that the hosts had only been communicating for a matter of days when this particular event happened is no surprise. One might expect an intelligent person to have understood that with so many different personalities merging there would be a lot of comparing notes on experiences. It's how we learn in society. It's what we do with the shared information that makes the difference in how things turn out in the end. </QUOTE>

Whatever happened... that happened.... I'm not referring to that. One might expect an intelligent host or hostess to perhaps read, comprehend and share what measures are taken during a gathering to keep things safe, and what measures are taken to approach someone who is out of line. I'm sure that there are some hosts who have different procedures, and well I was curious about them.

I was also questioning the procedure and the power of people put in place to ban people (or request that people be banned across the continent) from munches or gatherings, and why that happens, if it does occur 🙄 . I also am curious as to how these same people can figure out when that banned person or group is truly repentant.

I find it utterly amusing that people find things a wonderful idea until they aren't a part of it. Then it's a horror of horrors. ESPECIALLY, if inserting one's own foot in one's mouth caused the dissociation.

Yeah....I'm sure that would make someone just cry a bucket of tears. Personally, I wouldn't expect to be part of a gathering host list since I've never hosted a gathering and won't anytime soon (Although I seriously thought about it and inquired about it in times past.)

And due to other more important circumstances occurring in my life at this time... I don't expect to be inserting anything in my mouth because I don't get invited to something I didn't ask to attend in the first place.

But hey! I know exactly what you mean. So if any of you are one of those people who are pissed off cause you are feeling left out.... Here's my shoulder. You can lean on me. 😉

When I host a gathering, I do so knowing that no matter how well I may know someone online, I can be surprised, as I mentioned above. Therefore, I would think that any rational person would also take the word of another person who was willing to put reputation and privacy on the line for the sake of a get together. Until you are willing to take the risk yourself, you may want to remember that experience makes one’s opinions more credible.

I believe anyone, gathering or not, who decides to meet, hang out with, anyone they do not know is taking a risk. The "experience" we gain from the risks we take may either make our opinions (as you put it) "more credible", or in someone else's eyes, that same risk may make us "incredibly stupid".Hey... it just depends.

The same guts it takes to meet people you have never met before at someone else's party, or at a club, a bar, or at a party in your house, or on a date, or hell, even in an elevator with a stranger, those guts are the same guts it takes to meet someone gathering wise.

The only thing that is different is the work and effort put forth to get the gathering together (Which of course speaks for itself, but isn’t really much different from anybody else hosting a party).

So it is nice to think that you are so much more wise, seeing as you hosted gatherings. I think that is why I initially asked questions about the safety process instead of purely assuming how each and every host/hostess carries out with safety measures for gathering/munch purposes.

Asking how someone behaved for a gathering is one thing (smart thing if you are inviting them to your house). Me telling you that I don't think you should have them at your gathering because I happen to be mad at them for something they did outside of a munch/gathering situation (that has nothing to do with anyone but me), is wrong. You deciding not to invite that person based on the limited one sided opinion that you have certainly is your choice.

Putting someone in the middle by saying, "If you invite Johnny X to your gathering, you are no friend of mine." That is equally wrong.
Well... more like middle schoolish, but hey.... Deciding not to invite a person/friend to your party because you are afraid of losing another friend... hey, it's weak, but you surely have that choice.

LOL... Not that this has ever ever ever happened on the hosting list, mind you.

I’ve held my opinions through a variety of threads that hinted at things that were blatantly stated in this one. I just thought that since I was directly affected by parts of it that I had a right to comment. I didn’t mean to intrude on anyone’s assumptions or opinion based on limited information. Please…do continue. I find it interesting as I said at the outset of this post.

Do continue to read and comment as much as you like. I am not responsible for any riled up feelings you obtain on your reading quest. Nor am I responsible for the assumptions that are held by you or anyone else based on the limited information surmised or provided by any participant of this thread. 😀

Thanks,
Sunrise

 

[JoBelle]

Well, what a sweet response. Thanks for taking the time.

It seems you have an big issue with people basing their actions on others' opinions. I don't know about you, Sunrise, but I tend to trust the opinion of friends. Especially friends who are willing to go out on a limb. As far as taking risks in gatherings, well...it's a bit different for a host than it is an attendee. You as a guest are not responsible for the event. You can walk into it as you can the corner bar and enjoy yourself without worry. For a host it's like walking down to the corner bar and inviting everyone inside to come over. God forbid you don't invite the drunk in the corner that the bartender likes. Even if he's been staring lewdly at the five young women sitting by the dance floor. The "risks" are different. For that simple reason, hosts will respect the opinion of one another on how well Person-X fits into a plan.

So it is nice to think that you are so much more wise, seeing as you hosted gatherings. I think that is why I initially asked questions about the safety process instead of purely assuming how each and every host/hostess carries out with safety measures for gathering/munch purposes.

Did I SAY I was more wise? Hmm, don't think I did. But, since you said that, I'll address it. I was referring to a very specific topic with which I have experience. It bothers you that I don't take you as seriously as I might take someone else who has actually hosted rather than just thought about it? Talk to our most recent host, Mimi for a little insight to what it does to your perspective as her experiences are still fresh. She thought about it for a long time, and her reactions post-gathering were fascinating to me. AND NO, that wasn't a command of any types so no need to rebuke the suggestion. I was speaking about the over all idea that after you host, you realize it's not as easy as it seems you believe. A host has issues of handling strangers, as well as the legal, moral, and safety concerns that pop up as a result of those strangers interacting. It can get messy. Again, another reason hosts chat about things.

It's just like in the rest of life. Do you associate with people knowing full well that they have caused problems for people you know and trust? It's not MY style. I'd make a point to suss them out a bit, and you can bet that until I've enough positive experience with them myself, I'll be using the people I trust as guides to help me. I'm not perfect y'know! I agree that to say "You don't like Jonny, so I don't like Jonny" is juvenile. However, to say, "I don't know Jonny but I do know Betty, and Betty is upset by Jonny's behavior. Well, maybe I should take more time getting to know Jonny before I invite him into my home" is not juvenile. In MY experience, that is what has happened more times than not as a result of hosts' conversations. A person's reaction to being told someone else has a problem that affects my views is also a bit telling about the person overall don't you think? For example, when my fellow hosts backed me when I was the victim of some very inappropriate behavior, the person in question became volatile. Apparently, there is a thought among some that their actions shouldn’t’ be held against them.

As far as people being "banned." Interesting question again as it's something that has happened only a few times. Some involve legal issues, some personal distaste. They have involved things like under age tickling. Not respecting boundaries set by the host. A willing lee may not mind a certain type of play, however if the host does not endorse it, lers should also respect that. At least, *I* think so. In the end, the host is still responsible for the event in the eyes of attendees. People receiving death threats. Yep, it's happened. People lying flat out just to gain entry to one of the private parties. People's personalities becoming erratic and unpredictable - a behavior you certainly can't abide when you have people tied down in the room. My issue is trustworthiness. If I feel that you have an agenda that involves promoting yourself over the safety and well being of others, I'll keep you out. In a heartbeat. AND, if COMMON little courtesies are not extended, you can bet your sweet bippy that you'll develop the reputation among hosts that you can't be trusted with the small things so why on EARTH would you be trusted with the safety and comfort of others.

You see, it's easy to say that things are small, but in the end...it proves your character and that's a big deciding point about how well you are trusted and in turn whether or not someone is willing to take the aforementioned "risk" by having you around. Your "character" is all you have online and off. . I've seen more than one person paint himself to be something he wasn't. It's a sad day when you realize that things get ugly when words are twisted without full knowledge behind them. That's the sort of thing that places one's true colors on the board

As far as your questions about hosts' perspectives on safety. There is a website that all the hosts that take the time to talk agreed to post. Thanks to Ann's efforts they are on a website that was listed in two different threads in the Tickling forum as well as at the bottom of her sig line, and others' sig lines. There is also a place in the gatherings discussion area for these topics. Most, if not all, of your questions could be answered there. If you were so interested in gathering safety being discussed, appropriate outlets were provided. So, it seemed that given the above, that you were indeed more interested in discussing the "other things" that were mentioned in this thread. Forgive me for misinterpreting you.

As far as your words being twisted. I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm not privy to that so I won't comment on it. I just hope it is settled to your satisfaction.

It seems nothing more productive is going to come from my being a part of this, so I will step out of the chat, and let someone else come in that seems to give you the answers you seek. I'd just like to offer one suggestion to everyone. Until you can prove that you have all the facts about a situation, it would do you well not to say things you can't 'take back.' A lesson we've all learned here....words do damage you sometimes can't repair. Sometimes you damage yourSELF.

Oh, one more thing, very quickly. Yes, I'm wound up about some things. It wasn't your specific words. They were just a reminder! 😀

Cheers,
Jo

 

[drew70]

Originally posted by Limeoutsider

So, about this vouching for a person, what if the person has never been to a gathering? And its one of the types thats obniouxious (sp?) on line? Do you take a chance? or do you jsut flat out say 'no'?

Although certainly not the most so, I tend to be quite obnoxious at times in forums and online in general. I know this comes as a great shock to most of you. It's no secret that I enjoy a good intellectual flamefest. Even with my colored history, I was still invited to NEST last year, never having been. For whatever reason, people tend to be on better behavior in person than online, and I think the folks that host the larger gatherings realize this. Of course, you can have the most polite and reasonable guy online turn out to be a rude and obnoxious tickler in person, but I think that's the exception rather than the rule.

I dont go to gatherings bc I know I'm shy and I'd probably sit in a corner and ignore people, and if someone did talk to me, all I'd reply is "yes, no, & ok"

Even if that's all you do, it's worth going, especially if you've never been. There's no requirement to engage in tickle play. Some people just hang out and watch. I did a lot of that last year. But I also got a chance to meet in person many of the folks I knew online. Trust me, you'll find somebody to hang out with.

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Yeah, I did expect you to leave the discussion. It does seem to happen a lot.

And yes... I did have one more reason for posting this thread besides wanting to know about gathering safety and what gave people the right to do a bunch of things that I would consider a bit shady.

I selfishly wanted the person who used and lied on me to know that I don't appreciate them doing what they did, and to equally point out that a person was falsely accused of disrespecting me. The "offending" person may have beat everyone else's ass over and over again at 10 gatherings, but please leave my name out of it.

There! DONE!

Other than that.... Since I opened the discussion to people who have hosted tickle gatherings or who are thinking about hosting gatherings, I believe this was an appropiate place to post my thread.

I'm glad you are concerned about pointing me in the right direction. You even told me about wonder new sites where I can learn and play! OH MY! Many people would have watched me wander aimlessly without hope. Thank you. 😀

It seems you have an big issue with people basing their actions on others' opinions.

No, I have a big issue with people basing their actions SOLELY on the opinions of others. Everyone has an opionion, but frankly, only I can make the decision. Their opinions may even matter to me (because they are my friends), but even friends make mistakes or misjudge people.

Also, there are just some friends who you love, but they just can't give you advice on certain things. I know if my older sister says she has a guy I can date, I run as far away as I can, as fast away as I can. If my younger sister says the same thing, I may think about it, but ultimately MY CHOICE will be what makes me look the guy up. I don't feel obligated to break up with the guy because after we get together my sister and he called each other ugly and don't talk anymore. 🙄

Sometimes people just don't get along and that is not a reason to blindly decide to shove that same person off, if you haven't given that person a chance.

I don't know about you, Sunrise, but I tend to trust the opinion of friends. Especially friends who are willing to go out on a limb. As far as taking risks in gatherings, well...it's a bit different for a host than it is an attendee. You as a guest are not responsible for the event. The "risks" are different.

I believe in the second line, I said that.

Did I SAY I was more wise? Hmm, don't think I did. But, since you said that, I'll address it. I was referring to a very specific topic with which I have experience. It bothers you that I don't take you as seriously as I might take someone else who has actually hosted rather than just thought about it?

Actually, to be perfectly blunt, how you feel about me, or "take" me as you put it, doesn't affect me at all. I wasn't even thinking about you when I posted this thread because I forgot you had even hosted gatherings. LOL But if you interpret things that way, who am I to try and change yourm mind.

Talk to our most recent host, Mimi for a little insight to what it does to your perspective as her experiences are still fresh. She thought about it for a long time, and her reactions post-gathering were fascinating to me. AND NO, that wasn't a command of any types so no need to rebuke the suggestion. I was speaking about the over all idea that after you host, you realize it's not as easy as it seems you believe.

Hmmm... what do I seem to believe? How easy do you think I think it is? Hostess and mind reader? What a wicked combination. 🙄

And oh, I have spoken to a couple of people who have hosted gatherings. After all, it does seem pretty interesting. You know, beyond safety, how people are invited, how to get people to and fro, how do decide cut off numbers, when to have the gathering, where to have the main event when houses aren't available, where all the money folks send you seems to go off to. You know, things like that.

A host has issues of handling strangers, as well as the legal, moral, and safety concerns that pop up as a result of those strangers interacting. It can get messy. Again, another reason hosts chat about things.

So you don't chat about why you shouldn't invite Granny Glops because you feel like she isn't a good friend and if YA'LL ARE MY FRIEND TOO... YOU WILL NOT INVITE GRANNY GLOPS?

It's just like in the rest of life. Do you associate with people knowing full well that they have caused problems for people you know and trust?

Honestly, that's a very good question. I don't trust very many people, but recently some of the people that I did trust proved to me that they can not be trusted. Sure it is my fault for misreading someone who I felt could be a friend.

But I guess it is the teacher in me. I have students who are SATAN in every class but mine. I believe in giving people a chance. If it is an issue of safety, then yes, I will listen to the concerns of my friends, but if it is an issue of personality or ego, that person has a chance to show to me that they are not what others are saying.

I promise, if some of you met me on the street, you'd probably think I am mean and pretty heartless, maybe. Some may think I am too shy. Others think I'm a total prude that doesn't have any fun at all.

And hey, you ask someone, they might even say it's true. But the people who actually get to know me know that it is not true. I am such a clown, I love to laugh, and so many many other things.

Now, some may not think it is worth the chance to find out based on what someone else said. Others may think like me and say, hmmm, I'll give it a chance.

To listen to someone completely and have then heavily influence your decisions makes you a follower, not a leader. You didn't strike me as such, but hey, you learn something new everyday.

Apparently, there is a thought among some that their actions shouldn’t’ be held against them.

Not in my book. But then I don't take it upon myself to dish out the punishment for everyone who I feel is wrong. There are other "powers and associations that handle that."

Course if I ever become assistant principal I will. Then when I get a student put out of my school I will call the next school and tell that principal not to invite the student in because blah blah blah.

As far as people being "banned...." *edited*

Thank you for at least answering my question on how people are banned.
Now... how are they reinstated?

As far as your words being twisted. I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm not privy to that so I won't comment on it. I just hope it is settled to your satisfaction.

Again, you have no idea how much it means to me that you truly care.

I'd just like to offer one suggestion to everyone. Until you can prove that you have all the facts about a situation, it would do you well not to say things you can't 'take back.' A lesson we've all learned here....words do damage you sometimes can't repair. Sometimes you damage yourSELF.

I'm only sorry that I am too far away to say some of the things I have felt and wrote to the faces of those who smiled all up in my face and have proven to me they can't be trusted.

And like I posted to DVNC... the friends that I have, who are my true friends, they know me, and I have them for life. If what I type on this forum, whether someone agrees or disagrees damages, taints, or hurts the way people view me, then they didn't know me too well in the first place. (Unless I just go completely wacko!) And if from this thread all of a sudden you find yourself not liking me, you weren't a true friend to begin with.

Hope you find some way to unwind.

Sunrise

 

[BellaRisa]

Howdy folks,

I've been very quiet on the gathering front for awhile now, both here and on the Hosts List, simply because it's gonna be quite a spell before I host again (insanely busy with vanilla and spanking stuff). But as a member and event hostess of the tickling, spanking, and BDSM communities for 5 yrs now, I'd like to comment on what I've read here:

"if a ticklee feels violated, misused or unsafe and doesn't say anything to the person about it until days, weeks, months later how was the Ler supposed to know? And of course, all the problems could have been avoided if the lee just spoke up and said... EXCUSE ME... back off. Thanks or at least told someone so they could handle it as well. (That, of course, still doesn't justify the Ler's actions, but keeping quiet doesn't open eyes for change either.)"

This really sounds like an individual situation that occured between several adults, who can handle it themselves. But, since it's been brought up: I've attended several events for various kinks where a 'lee/bottom/sub doesn't express his or her unhappiness right away. Often, it took all of their courage just to show UP at this event, the last thing they wish to do is call attention to themselves as a bad sport or whiner. Saying "excuse me, back off' is incredibly difficult for some. Or they fully intend to say something but there never seems to be a right moment. Believe me, I know that sounds silly but I've been there; and you all know that I'm about as shy as Robin Williams. Sometimes you pause to question your own judgement, and then the moment feels lost. So they let it go, but at some point they worry it might be a problem for someone else or happen to them again, or perhaps they've been to other events in the between time and gotten more self confidence, and they speak up. I am NOT defending this, it annoys me-as a hostess i can't help you if you don't speak up. And it is most certainly NOT the 'Ler's fault, by any means. I'm just saying that this occurs on occasion. Normally in such a situation the Host talks to all parties involved, the 'Ler apologizes and the 'lee is told to speak up earlier next time, and everyone moves on. The only time it gets weird is when someone is lying or denying responsibility on either side. This is rare but it happens. In this case, the host has to decide if this persons can understand how they need to behave. If that host feels as though this person or persons have listening problems, what happens next is up to that particular host. It's really no one else's business, unless that host feels it was significant enough to discuss with other hosts to help them avoid conflict at their events. And it's STILL up to those hosts.



"Sure, that is one way to look at it. Any person, who may (or may not) have been aware of only offending you, found out in a worst possible way that there was a lynch mob of angry hosts and guests who suddenly thought he/she was evil incarnate. A private situation was shared in public and then other people started coming out of the woodwork to add stories of their own. Next thing you know, this person supposedly violated about 10 people. Including me, someone he/she only tickled for like 2 minutes. "

Uh...yeah. This thread was just about general safety. Wanna buy my shiny Brooklyn Bridge? (kidding, I'm KIDDING, please no cards and letters...)

If someone brings up your name up falsely, you have choices. You speak up and make things clear. You find the person who started the rumor and tell them to stop it. Then you move on. OR, make it as public and melodramatic and drawn out as possible, and add aspects that happened eons ago and are irrelevant but juicy, and watch the fireworks. I find the choices one makes to be a sign of maturity but that's just me.


"And as a result of some of the simpering, gossiping, liars, backbiters, and back stabbing people in the community, this same person lost more than just you as a friend. Sure everyone is responsible for their actions and consequences, but I don't think the power to pass out consequences, sentences, and justice was given to the "Hosting List Godfathers" or to anyone else in this community.

(Have we elected a mayor yet? ) "


I'm going to be very, very blunt here. Do people know how incredibly HEINOUS AND STUPID you have to behave to even be a blip on the screen of hosts??

I keep hearing about all these bannings and such; That is so rare that you're more likely to hit the lottery as you're being struck by lightning while holding the last Dodo bird. Nothing like that is even CONSIDERED unless you acted so stupidly and violated trust on so many levels that your own mama would suggest you stay home. I mean this, and say it from experience-you have to be such a tiresome liar, creep and/or criminal that if you insist the sun is shining we all take out umbrellas. Seriously, those of us who have these gatherings just want to have a good time amongst our fellow tickling folk. The LAST thing we want is High School he-said-she-said baloney, and frankly it's a rare occurence. In fact, the only time it happens is when people go whining to others instead of handling their own business. Then folks who have tons of opinion but only a fraction of fact get involved, and it becomes a ninth-grade level mess.

As for the Hosting List Godfathers (and GodMamas, thank you), you're damn skippy we talk and share info. Why shouldn't we? If I know that Johnny X will steal your silverware and feel up your dog of COURSE I'm gonna tell you. I'd expect you to do the same. What you do with that info is up to you; hey, your dog might like that kinda thing. But if you knew Johnny was a pain and didn't tell me, I'd be highly annoyed. And if Johnny hurt me so badly that I never want to see him again, I will certainly tell the other hosts that to invite him is to un-invite me. Let me say again: you have to act SO stupidly and nastily for anything like this to occur that I know of NO ONE who would have an iota of sympathy. The hosts are NOT sheep, we all think very individually. I can honestly say that there are a very precious few that I'd rather not have in my home yet are welcome in others, and that's fine. For ALL or the majority of the hosts to have issue with you, you gotta be mighty, mighty WRONG and too stubborn to see it.

And another thing; if for some reason you DO find yourself un-invited to gatherings for awhile, and you really couldn't make amends (which STILL amazes me in some cases) show some self-respect; get over yourself and do something else that day, and come next year. Period.

"Advice is fine and concern is fine, but when someone who is supposed to be my equal decides to rise up and become the persecutor, judge, jury, and god of my fate, then that is ridiculous, and wrong."

We're all equals. But it's our houses/parties, and we decide INDIVIDUALLY who gets to come in to OUR homes. So yeah, I *DO* decide your fate regarding MY party. You wanna go rollerblading instead, your fate is in your hands.

"Say, I have to come back to you and grovel later after I have "redeemed myself in the eyes of the community" That's giving mere humans the power to determine who can be forgiven or not, who is truly repentant or not. Who is good enough, and who just isn't.
But hey, all of that fits into the sense of community here, right?
Does it? Hmmmm...."


Actually, it does indeed fit into the sense of community. You violate trust, you need to make up for it. That's between friends, co-workers, spouses...any type of relationship. If you do something so *wrong* that I don't want you in my house and won't go to another house if you're gonna be there, you should definitely make sincere amends. If your apology just sounds like you're blaming the moon and stars for whatever happened and you still don't 'get' how you were at fault, why should I expect you to behave differently next time? That's not asking you to grovel, it's requesting you to take responsibility for your actions. It has nothing to do with you being a good person, that's not for me to judge. But whether I want you around me is up to ME.

"So it's like "tickling violation rehab". Except without the caring counselors who stick by you and encourage you through, you've got, instead, everyone ignoring you and shunning you until they feel like you've learned your lesson. Hmmmmmmm, interesting. "

"Tickling violation rehab" sounds like something Morandilias would write (g). But seriously, there's only so long you can attempt talking to someone if they keep telling you the same line of bullpucky. Eventually you grow tired of hearing that tune and have a strong desire to turn off the 'puter and go outside. If people shun and ignore you, it's likely because talking to you did no good. And if these people are soooo mean to you, you still want them as friends because....?


"So safety issues are not the only things that determines who is accepted into the circle of private tickling parties or who is pushed away? I am now to assume that it is also the personality, or if you will, personality conflicts that occur between host and guest?"

Safety is by far the biggest factor, but again-why should I have you in my house if you bug the living hell outta me and my friends? As Jules said in Pulp Fiction, "personality goes a long way". You have to mess up in a *royal* fashion for a host to not want you around. They have enough hutzpah and common sense to decide who they want in their homes, and we have a TON of patience and understanding; if we don't want you then you did a lot more than just use the last of the paper towels or drink the last root beer.

What you're asking, it seems, is whether one host would have someone over whom another host didn't like. Depends on why. Do they disagree on Ashley Renee's boobs (fake), or did this person come in and make everyone miserable with rudeness and general obnoxiousness? You're right, "thou shalt not be an ass" is not a spoken rule, but I promise you it's there and 99% of the people respect it as their parents and society taught them. The one percent complains that we're too strict. And if you really, truly need to know exactly how not to be an ass at a party, I'm kinda worried about you.


"If you invite me to a party and I don't break any of the rules, but you just didn't like me to hot, you can tell everyone on the list, and because it is just oh-so-very-hard for that host-listing someone to get to know me him/herself and make a separate opinion on me, then that other host may or may not influence my next tickle gathering fate. Hmmmmmmm...... I think I understand some of this better now. Tickling parties are private parties, but not private matters. You get together to discuss and decide who can come and who can not, but the discussions themselves are held between people on a (once secret) private hosting list. You (the list) also privately decide who is too dangerous to attend gatherings, and who has redeemed him/herself, or who is still on tickle suspension until further notice."

All of the party issues you've mentioned have to be decided by someone. If not the party hosts, then...who? Whom shall we discuss hosting issues with, if not the other hosts who know what we're talking about and actually give a rat's heiney? And you keep referring to the 'once secret' list. The list was always meant to be known about once it was firmly established, why should it have been publically announced before it was ready? As for privately deciding issues such as who's dangerous, if you were being discussed, would you want that public, especially if people were still finding out exactly what happened? THAT would make us an unfair mob, not having a private list.

As for 'tickle suspension' (another Morandilias story waiting to happen) Of course it's up to the hosts. I belong to a list of local preschool teachers with our own private centers. My little Elmo bites everyone and his mother denies it, and she owes me $300 for his care. She won't listen to my pleas and blames eberyone else for his behavior, so I remove him from my school until she understands his biting issue AND pays me. Now Elmo is applying to your school. You and I are fellow teachers; I would tell you what happened and let you make up your own mind, but I'd be mighty annoyed if you let him into your center while his mother owes me tuition and won't help him stop using other kids as chew-toys. Sometimes people won't listen until the stakes are high enough, and there's nothing wrong with folks sticking together if they have a common cause.


"I've got it. Ultimately, despite the rumors, advice, and opinions, the gathering host makes the decision on who to invite."

Yup.

"How simple is that. Course I don't think everyone who hosts tickle munches/ gatherings are on the "gathering host email list". How do you choose who is honorable enough to be added, and who is not? How does one get removed from the list? "

To be 'honorable', you just have to not tell lies or give out information that we ALL decided should be kept between us. To get removed you have to tell lies and give out information that we ALL decided should be kept between us. It is indeed simple.

Bottom line for me: All you have to do to go to gatherings is not act a fool. Don't lie, don't disrespect anyone. Bring a beverage or some chips. If something happens, admit to it and don't do it again. I promise you, it really is that easy. There are many who can attest to that.

And if you can't handle that, stay home 'til you can.

Bella

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Quotes by bella

This really sounds like an individual situation that occurred between several adults, who can handle it themselves. But, since it's been brought up: I've attended several events for various kinks where a 'lee/bottom/sub doesn't express his or her unhappiness right away.

I'm not sure exactly what you were referring to at the beginning of that sentence, because it has happened plenty of times but no matter. I realize how hard it is for people to speak up when something bad, annoying, or unpleasant has happened to them. I've actually done it before (remained silent). But when I finally told someone I trusted what happened at the gathering, he was highly irritated at me for not saying anything until about one week, two weeks later. It makes it very hard for the host/hostess.
Maintaining a safe and comfortable environment is essential, and sometimes with so many people running around lying, it is hard to determine who is telling the truth anymore.

I'm going to be very, very blunt here. Do people know how incredibly HEINOUS AND STUPID you have to behave to even be a blip on the screen of hosts??

I keep hearing about all these bannings and such; That is so rare that you're more likely to hit the lottery as you're being struck by lightning while holding the last Dodo bird. Nothing like that is even CONSIDERED unless you acted so stupidly and violated trust on so many levels that your own mama would suggest you stay home. I mean this, and say it from experience-you have to be such a tiresome liar, creep and/or criminal that if you insist the sun is shining we all take out umbrellas. Seriously, those of us who have these gatherings just want to have a good time amongst our fellow tickling folk. The LAST thing we want is High School he-said-she-said baloney, and frankly it's a rare occurence. In fact, the only time it happens is when people go whining to others instead of handling their own business. Then folks who have tons of opinion but only a fraction of fact get involved, and it becomes a ninth-grade level mess.

If these people are so god awful, so terrible, so dangerous, so stupid, so damned annoying, then why are they allowed to redeem themselves and come back? How do ya'll figure they are all of a sudden intelligent, trustworthy, and clean of all said crimes? You have these people getting together gossiping about decisions and situations, and some of these same people barely know each other, and probably don't know much about the person in question. Seems like it was a mess to begin with.

As for the Hosting List Godfathers (and GodMamas, thank you), you're damn skippy we talk and share info. Why shouldn't we? If I know that Johnny X will steal your silverware and feel up your dog of COURSE I'm gonna tell you. I'd expect you to do the same. What you do with that info is up to you; hey, your dog might like that kinda thing. But if you knew Johnny was a pain and didn't tell me, I'd be highly annoyed. And if Johnny hurt me so badly that I never want to see him again, I will certainly tell the other hosts that to invite him is to un-invite me. Let me say again: you have to act SO stupidly and nastily for anything like this to occur that I know of NO ONE who would have an iota of sympathy. The hosts are NOT sheep, we all think very individually. I can honestly say that there are a very precious few that I'd rather not have in my home yet are welcome in others, and that's fine. For ALL or the majority of the hosts to have issue with you, you gotta be mighty, mighty WRONG and too stubborn to see it.

Ok... you said it your way. And it made sense. Let me say it my way.

What if Sally Salsa just didn't like Johnny X. He didn't beat her ass or do anything criminal. Maybe it was something he posted earlier in the year. Or maybe it is just a personality thing. Maybe it is her so called female intuition. But whatever the reason, they aren't the best of friends through no violation on his part.

Sally Salsa just happens to be part of the List Mafia. And Hot Sauce Sammy likes Johnny. Sammy is having a gathering coming up that Sally Salsa really wants to go to. So Sally Salsa says:

I won't be going to a gathering if Johnny X is there." That allows her to assert her authority over Sammy's private function and it no longer becomes a carefree private decision to invite whomever he pleases. Sammy now has to worry about alienating the person who is trying to run his gathering (who may be a friend), or alienating another person he has no problem with either.

And Sammy, similar to many people I know, more than likely will crack and be too afraid or lack the guts to say, "Sally, frankly that's your choice. Get over your damned self, come and behave, or just don't come. That's <u>your</u> decision."

People shut others out just to please. You are so right. It IS your own private decision, but this person is being pushed away or targeted and probably doesn't even know it. Sooner or later this person realizes that he isn't getting invited to many gatherings, or he isn't receiving return emails about gatherings and he doesn't know why.

Obviously people can use whatever reason they want to invite or bar someone from coming to their houses. I just wish everyone involved would make decisions based on their own good judgment and not based on the pettiness of others. Pretty soon you have a bunch of people who are no longer caring about standing up for what is right, but rather cowering behind someone who has more Tickle Community Clout and who can ruin the rep if they so choose.

And another thing; if for some reason you DO find yourself un-invited to gatherings for awhile, and you really couldn't make amends (which STILL amazes me in some cases) show some self-respect; get over yourself and do something else that day, and come next year. Period.

Yeah? It'd take a lot of humble pie for someone to keep coming back over and over again begging to attend a gathering until someone finally decided it time for them to be forgiven? And how much self-respect would you feel hanging around a group of people who felt you were the most stupid, annoying, criminal on earth just 12 months before. Someone who's mama thought you should stay home. That's pretty darned pitiful.

Actually, it does indeed fit into the sense of community. You violate trust, you need to make up for it. That's between friends, co-workers, spouses...any type of relationship. If you do something so *wrong* that I don't want you in my house and won't go to another house if you're gonna be there, you should definitely make sincere amends. If your apology just sounds like you're blaming the moon and stars for whatever happened and you still don't 'get' how you were at fault, why should I expect you to behave differently next time? That's not asking you to grovel, it's requesting you to take responsibility for your actions. It has nothing to do with you being a good person, that's not for me to judge. But whether I want you around me is up to ME.

If all you are expecting is a sincere apology, that's fine, but there are also some people who are expecting a clear marked change in the violator's behavior, and unless someone puts their life/ rep/ etc. on the line and gives that person a chance, how are you supposed to know that?

If someone did something so god-awful to me that I told them never again to come back to my house, they are never again coming back to my house. I may accept their apology, but it ain't gonna happen. I actually can handle making that decision without asking advice from other people who have guests coming to their houses too.

"Tickling violation rehab" sounds like something Morandilias would write (g). But seriously, there's only so long you can attempt talking to someone if they keep telling you the same line of bullpucky. Eventually you grow tired of hearing that tune and have a strong desire to turn off the 'puter and go outside. If people shun and ignore you, it's likely because talking to you did no good. And if these people are soooo mean to you, you still want them as friends because....?

Oooo... my point exactly!

Safety is by far the biggest factor, but again-why should I have you in my house if you bug the living hell outta me and my friends?

How about if you had me in your house before I bugged your over sensitive friends, and I didn't do anything wrong/ was pretty cool. Some of your friends and I just may not get along. That doesn't mean I'd be an automatic bad guest. Once again, you may not feel like the chance is worth it. Others may.

What you're asking, it seems, is whether one host would have someone over whom another host didn't like. Depends on why. Do they disagree on Ashley Renee's boobs (fake), or did this person come in and make everyone miserable with rudeness and general obnoxiousness? You're right, "thou shalt not be an ass" is not a spoken rule, but I promise you it's there and 99% of the people respect it as their parents and society taught them. The one percent complains that we're too strict. And if you really, truly need to know exactly how not to be an ass at a party, I'm kinda worried about you.

That's funny (HA), but some folks are worried about me regardless so if you add my name to your worry list, maybe it'll make me that much stronger over time.

I don't remember being an ass at a gathering, but then no one pulled me aside and said that I was being one. (I certainly remember being a loud ass.) Now probably 50 people will come out and be like, Sunrise, you were a bad guest at my house. Then I'll be all confused and wonder why it took them 1 to 3 years to tell me.

As for 'tickle suspension' (another Morandilias story waiting to happen) Of course it's up to the hosts. I belong to a list of local preschool teachers with our own private centers. My little Elmo bites everyone and his mother denies it, and she owes me $300 for his care. She won't listen to my pleas and blames eberyone else for his behavior, so I remove him from my school until she understands his biting issue AND pays me. Now Elmo is applying to your school. You and I are fellow teachers; I would tell you what happened and let you make up your own mind, but I'd be mighty annoyed if you let him into your center while his mother owes me tuition and won't help him stop using other kids as chew-toys. Sometimes people won't listen until the stakes are high enough, and there's nothing wrong with folks sticking together if they have a common cause.

I totally agree in standing up for something that is right with allies who share your common cause. But I feel it has to be something that is right. Not something that is petty and childish.

Bottom line for me: All you have to do to go to gatherings is not act a fool. Don't lie, don't disrespect anyone. Bring a beverage or some chips. If something happens, admit to it and don't do it again. I promise you, it really is that easy. There are many who can attest to that.

You forgot to add, don't rock the boat, keep your mouth shut, and keep opinions that you have that may or may not follow the opinions of the ones in "power" to yourself. Or... is that somewhere else? (Some people say that too. Or is that under the unwritten rule of “Thou shalt not be an ass.”

Like I said before, unless people come crawling out of the woodwork, I pretty much displayed good behavior at the gatherings I've attended. I'm not the one who doesn't know how to act in public, nor am I a person who isn't gracious to my host/hostess. I am also respectful to the people they invite into the home whether I like all the people or not.

But if speaking my mind suddenly places me on the unwelcome wagon then I guess I will just have to save lots of money on traveling to the events and spend it on other things. *gasp* The horror! 🙄

If there is someone I do not like, or someone who has done something to me that I think is something I can handle between that person and myself then (unless it is a safety issue) I keep the issue to myself. In this case, someone decided to use me and lie on me publically. And I publically decided to denounce their actions. So in that aspect, I guess we are both immature. Next time I hope that person keeps my name out of their mouth and maybe, just maybe I won't have to go there!

I don't use how I feel about someone to sway the decisions my friends have to make when deciding who they will invite to their home (or be friends with in general). And if I can't stand to be around the person, instead of putting my friend in a tight situation where he/she has to choose between 2 other friends, I keep my mouth shut!

Some people just like to usurp the power and clout they have over others. That just isn't the kind of person I am.

Sunrise

 

[Phineas]

Jesus Christ on a Crutch.

these are NOT the kinds of displays that gives me any confidence in attending a gathering, people. As if there wasn't enough to worry about, I now have the impression I can offend someone and news of which shall spread like wildfire throughout the entire community, all while not even knowing because the person I offended decided to complain about it after the fact.

just great.

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Re: Jesus Christ on a Crutch.

these are NOT the kinds of displays that gives me any confidence in attending a gathering, people. As if there wasn't enough to worry about, I now have the impression I can offend someone and news of which shall spread like wildfire throughout the entire community, all while not even knowing because the person I offended decided to complain about it after the fact.

just great.

Ok... now I do feel a little bad.

 

[TicklingDuo]

Re: Jesus Christ on a Crutch.

these are NOT the kinds of displays that gives me any confidence in attending a gathering, people. As if there wasn't enough to worry about, I now have the impression I can offend someone and news of which shall spread like wildfire throughout the entire community, all while not even knowing because the person I offended decided to complain about it after the fact.

just great.

This is exactly why I attempted to discuss the issue off the forum instead of here. Though there are some valid questions raised, they are generally based on misunderstanding and misinformation. For those (and I firmly believe that this includes Sunrise) who want to know the truth about what takes place on the list...please feel free to ask. It's generally pretty boring detail. While we can't break any confidences, we can discuss generalities. Yes, if there's a problem that seems difficult to resolve, advice may be asked from other hosts. That's why we formed the list to begin with...to share information on what does and doesn't work and help one another out.

Unfortunately, the recent threads about gatherings and the "host mafia" (I actually kinda like that in a sick sort of way....Got any cement, Sunrise? 😛 ) have painted a very different picture of what takes place. One part of that is likely my fault for not fully explaining my reasons for publicly blasting a certain person for using me as a reference. I felt it better to leave out the details and not blow things up more than necessary. Obviously, that happened anyway. For that, I apologize to all who may have been disillusioned by it. That thread is NOT what we're about.

If anyone has further questions or concerns, we really are open to hearing them...and have even asked for them in other threads. Are we really so intimidating that people are afraid to be honest with us? I, for one, would MUCH rather have someone honestly tell me to my face that I'm full of sh*t than go around thinking so without telling me. As in this case, it may well be based on misunderstanding. Then again, I may actually BE full of sh*t about something. I'm very much open to being called on that. I would think that most if not all of the other hosts in the dreaded mafia would feel the same...though I'll let them state that for themselves. So, please! If anyone has real questions and concerns, let us know. Just do us the favor of giving us the same benefit of the doubt that we really do give others and be open to listen to the answer you receive.

All gatherings are about is having fun. Because they're private parties, the guest lists will likely start with those we know and are comfortable with. If there's room for more than those folks, we try to include others. But, in doing so, we DO accept a certain amount of risk. Sharing information between hosts simply helpss to cut that risk. We all decide for ourselves what to do with that information. And, for the record, it's much more than just people. It's places and times, etc. For example...

Last year, when we were first looking at hosting a gathering, we'd thought about having it at a park. We thought it would be fun and give people a more relaxed atmosphere to enjoy. We were informed that other hosts had tried that and it didn't go over well d/t confidentiality concerns. We saw the point and changed the venue. While that was LONG before the list formed, it's a good example of the kinds of things we're really doing. And, as I've said before, there have been as many cases of a host asking about a particular person they may have been hesitant to invite and been reassured that the person was cool than there have been people who were truly a problem for wahtever reason....and I can count BOTH lists without having to take my shoes off! (OK, so my shoes are off anyway! 😀 )

Really, gang! I think we all need a collective deep breath and a step back. Then, we can start with the facts instead of rumors and gossip. LOL We really aren't that exciting!

Ann

 

[JoBelle]

Sunrise

First,
I had said I was going to leave the discussion as I felt I had addressed each of yout topics sufficently. It was not to tune you out or ignore your future thoughts on the matter. Nor was it to tuck tail and run. I was being gracious to step rather than stay and beat the dead horse when we obviously disagree.

Second,
To correct you on one thing, I'm not sure where you get your facts that each host excludes based solely on the merit of other hosts' opinions. Yes, opinions matter greatly, but they are not by any means the only reason behind a decision. There are situations where someone might say something similiar to your example. I'm not saying that's not possible. If I knew a certain someone that I cannot stand will be at an event, you can bet I will not attend. It's a matter of being judged by the company you keep. And rather than lie to the host, I will tell them why I won't show. I would expect such reality from anyone....just because another host does it in the context of conversation about gatherings doesn't mean it's a "host thing."


Third,

The other issue I'd like to comment on is you asked how one becomes a part of the host-list. First, to be privy to the information we share, we simply ask that you actually BE a host. That you've stepped out on the limb and been a part of the hosting process. Then there are just basic courtesies. One thing about the current list of hosts is that as a rule, we tend to agree on the same safety measures and ettiquette that guide a gathering. The mow infamous "List" is not a government agency that has to hunt down and recruit hosts and then conform to some set guideline. We're just a handful of folks who had some similar views and chose to share them. There are plenty of people who do NOT share those same basic thoughts. Why they would want to be a part of what we're doing is beyond me. I'm waiting for all the people who disagree with how we're trying to do things to buck up and do it themselves or comment without insult. It's an issue that is being made much bigger than it needs to be. I'm just confused as all hell as to why it went from a few folks exchanging ideas to this public blasting of people's characters and veiled insults. All this could have been avoided had it not been blasted to so many people before the hosts even settled into a way of talking to one another. The host list was not a bad idea. The hosts are not bad people. As Bella said, things like "banned guests" are so rare that I can't even cite examples sufficient to support an argument. Oh, BTW, I'm not wound up dear, I'm just so confused. *sigh*


Phineas,

You're right. This thread is completely counterproductive to what some of us were tyring to accomplish. An important thing to note here is that the topics of conversation that have been addressed have been the very things that have been circulating through the tickling community for years. We're just trying to figure out how to handle them under our own roofs when we have people together. You know...as opposed to the previous measures of ignoring them and pretending like they didn't exist. Y'see...that didn't work very well either. Apparently, our being open about our concerns seems to imply that we have created the problem. Don't let the clamor worry or bother you. It's been there all along, just under the surface in whispers, and instant messages rather than out in the open.

Joby

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Thanks for inviting me to find the truth.

I started on a quest like that awhile ago. Just opened up my big mouth and started asking questions. What I got was a lot of people stuttering, lying to me and asking me how much I know (only enough to know to confirm that a person lied on me). So you see. It is nice to know ya'll are open to questions now.

Yeah about the mafia bit. I was just being goofy, unless ya'll really are like the mafia. Then I meant exactly what I said! 😛

But... honestly, I've said how I've felt plenty of times to plenty of people. And I didn't post about it until someone used me to further the list's "cause". They might not have been acting on your behalf, but they sure said they did!

There are obviously some of people involved on your list are not very honorable people. And if they don't fit into the "positive" goals that ya'll set out to do, ya'll need to do something about it. (Ban them and make them ask for forgiveness! And when they are finished... do it again!) Their negativity does effect the way you are perceived as a whole.

That's really all I have to say.

I would also rather someone come up to me and tell me why I'm not being invited somewhere rather than having rumor, lie, and discussions behind my back by people who are part of.... THE LIST!

Sunrise

 

[Neutron]

Hey..

You're always number 1 on my list lady.
Even though you most likely can't play B Ball worth a shit.

Darth Neutron

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Quotes by JoBelle
Sunrise
First,
I had said I was going to leave the discussion as I felt I had addressed each of yout topics sufficently. It was not to tune you out or ignore your future thoughts on the matter. Nor was it to tuck tail and run. I was being gracious to step rather than stay and beat the dead horse when we obviously disagree.

Well I'm so glad you returned. There have been a couple of times I've posted on a thread where you have commented on something and left before I have gotten a chance to reply to your views. I just chalked it up to your personality. I wasn't offended or anything, it just didn't surprise me.

Second,
To correct you on one thing, I'm not sure where you get your facts that each host excludes based solely on the merit of other hosts' opinions.

Let me correct YOU. I said I had a big issue with people who do that sort of thing. I didn't say that everyone who is a host/ hostess does. I can see how that can get misinterpreted... I'm sure it can be corrected just as easily.

I'm waiting for all the people who disagree with how we're trying to do things to buck up and do it themselves or comment without insult.

Don't hold your breath. A person very well may (and I may) have a gathering and create a hosting list (I won't do that) all of her own. But to hope that no one is going to complain or insult a work that you or anyone else created or put together... that's wishful thinking.

The host list was not a bad idea. The hosts are not bad people.

But that doesn't mean that the people on the host list are above making mistakes and bad decisions and lying and doing all the other things that some normal human beings do who consider themselves as decent good people. It'd be oh so cool if those same people were only hurting themselves, but they aren't.

Sunrise


And Phineas, if you do choose to go to a gathering, just be wise about the location, the people, the host, you know, any other things you would normally be wise about when attending any other party.

To act like negative things don't happen at gatherings sometimes is a disservice to people who honestly don't know any better, and to the people who obviously do know better.

Talk to some people who you feel are generally honest with you and have attended some gatherings. Ask them to tell you straight up what happens. Although each gathering is different at least you will hopefully hear some truthfulness. Not only the good flowery things, not only the negative things.