Tickle Gathering Safety

[dvnc]

Hmm. Still haven't received the mail askin' me to remove you, Sunrise. Surprising. Can't imagine, while you're scarin' bold Phineas, why you'd want to attend my bad ole events. There are so many others to attend, whose hosts don't bother talking to one another, exchanging ideas and sharing information. I await such from you, still.

Props to Bella and Jo for participating in this, whatever it is.

Anyone wanting a more focused discussion is encouraged to post a question or three. Keeps the topic focused, and the replies less like essays.

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Giggle....

I'll let that be your decision DVNC.

You stop sending me emails that I am already not receiving, and I'll consider myself removed from the list.

You stop inviting me to events that I haven't asked to attend and I'll consider myself not attending those events.

I don't need a email from you to see my friends who are into tickling and who stay on the west coast.

And I don't need to email you when I am having a get together of friends who are into tickling who happen to stay on the West Coast.

You may be a list father, but you need to play daddy to someone else. 😀

Thanks
Sunrise

 

[JoBelle]

Sunrise,

Now, you've brought up my personality? In all of this, I've tried to keep from making personal 'attacks' toward you by simply addressing your comments. There are a few idiosyncrasies of yours that I've neglected to point out simply for good tastes sake. Do try to keep it "above the belt."

To be honest, I'm not aware of this trend I have of leaving you hanging mid-thread. I tend to participate in threads and then move onto others frequently. There is no real method to the madness of it. Believe it or not....I bet other hosts do that too! 🙄 Perhaps you would be so kind as to Private Message me with the examples on which you've based this interpretation of my mannerisms. If it was worth bringing to light on a public board, then surely it is easy enough for you to cite the numerous occasions on which it has happened. I'm sure you will be willing to back your words.

No one said the hosts were above making mistakes. As a matter of fact, that was one of the first things that was stated. We, as a group, were feeling things out. We were creating new ground and trying to figure the course. We've barely had a chance to do that since we've been dealing with criticism since inception. Of course we make mistakes. Jesus! That's why we put together a website! To get views from people! To improve. You've set out a lot of judgmental labels in this thread about a lot of people whom you know very little about. Just how do you justify that?

Joby
Waiting for the laborious line by line reply to this post.

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Originally posted by JoBelle

Sunrise, Now, you've brought up my personality? In all of this, I've tried to keep from making personal 'attacks' toward you by simply addressing your comments. There are a few idiosyncrasies of yours that I've neglected to point out simply for good tastes sake. Do try to keep it "above the belt." To be honest, I'm not aware of this trend I have of leaving you hanging mid-thread. I tend to participate in threads and then move onto others frequently. There is no real method to the madness of it. Believe it or not....I bet other hosts do that too! 🙄 Perhaps you would be so kind as to Private Message me with the examples on which you've based this interpretation of my mannerisms. If it was worth bringing to light on a public board, then surely it is easy enough for you to cite the numerous occasions on which it has happened. I'm sure you will be willing to back your words.

Sure, I can back up what I said, but like I mentioned before, I figure that it is not something for me to be surprised or offended about. And I'm not. It's too bad that you are. You may take it as a personal attack, but I was simply stating the obvious. You are free to go and come on posts as you please.

However, if you would like to know instances, you'll get a pm in less than 5 minutes. LOL *edited--> Check your yahoo messenger*

You've set out a lot of judgmental labels in this thread about a lot of people whom you know very little about. Just how do you justify that?

Hey, if the same people I am addressing keep my name and lies about me out of their mouths then they don't have anything to worry about anything judgmental that I happen to think and/or say. If they are good enough to state something about me <u>they</u> don't know about, then I'm good enough to call them liars.

Plain and simple.

 

[drew70]

Re: Jesus Christ on a Crutch.

Originally posted by Phineas

these are NOT the kinds of displays that gives me any confidence in attending a gathering, people. As if there wasn't enough to worry about, I now have the impression I can offend someone and news of which shall spread like wildfire throughout the entire community, all while not even knowing because the person I offended decided to complain about it after the fact. just great.

Personally I don't see how this display is any better than those about which you complain. I'd love to know what you mean by "As if there wasn't enough to worry about..." If you have that many reservations regarding social interaction, then take some personal confidence classes. I hate to bust your bubble, but it's not a goal of the community to appease your apprehension about gatherings. That's something you're going to have to deal with on your own.

 

[Phineas]

Re: Re: Jesus Christ on a Crutch.

Personally I don't see how this display is any better than those about which you complain. I'd love to know what you mean by "As if there wasn't enough to worry about..."
[/B]

if you paid attention to my other posts on the subject of gatherings, you'd know what I mean.

If you have that many reservations regarding social interaction, then take some personal confidence classes.

you're just full of cheap shots lately, aren't you big man? There's nothing wrong with my confidence level regarding normal social interactions. On the other hand, one of my sticking points about gatherings is all of the rules, regulations, and "niceties" one is bombarded with and expected to understand before they even walk in the door. Unlike yourself, I aim to avoid offending people I interact with.

I hate to bust your bubble, but it's not a goal of the community to appease your apprehension about gatherings. That's something you're going to have to deal with on your own.

...I posted specifically because dvnc, and to a lesser extent, other gathering hosts solicit my input. I feel that it's to their best interest to keep back-and-forths about he-said-she-said and "politics" out of the public eye lest they dissuade people from wanting to attend their gatherings.

 

[JoBelle]

Sure, I can back up what I said, but like I mentioned before, I figure that it is not something for me to be surprised or offended about. And I'm not. It's too bad that you are. You may take it as a personal attack, but I was simply stating the obvious.

The OBVIOUS???

Sunrise, in case you are not getting your Yahoo messages.

Out of my 1600 plus posts, you came up with one single thread that somehow backs up your statement that I walk out of threads leaving you hanging. LOL Forgive me, but are you kidding? One topic? AND, mind you, there were actually TWO threads on the same topic and I posted in both. I left when it turned into a flame war worthy of shutting down the thread. I'm not the ONLY one who left the topic either. What say you about the others?

The other thing was something from AMT. I haven't been on AMT in almost TWO YEARS I think! I don't even remember the last time I posted there. I was on AOL back then, and I've not even had aol in over a year. I don't even know what thread you're talking about over there. In that amount of time, I'll have probably changed my mind 5 times on a topic anyway. 😛

Originally posted by Sunriseticklee Hey, if the same people I am addressing keep my name and lies about me out of their mouths then they don't have anything to worry about anything judgmental that I happen to think and/or say. If they are good enough to state something about me <u>they</u> don't know about, then I'm good enough to call them liars.

Here's the on-topic problem. You're using the host list as your target practice because some yet un-named person supposedly said something about you. You're clumping all the hosts together in one person. That's about as unfair as anything else that has been bantered around here. You're playing a victim, blaming the hosts in part, yet not letting us in on the big secret so we can state yes or no regarding our "involvement" or gain/loss from the aformentioned statment against you. To my knowledge, I've never accused you of being something you're not. But you're doing that. Why are you saying the people who hold gatherings have crossed you? To my knowledge, I've never had a problem with you until I got in this thread and my character is smeard by you dragging all of the hosts in your personal problem that started with one person.

Now I think you've figured out that I can talk a subject to death along with the best of them, but I'd rather this matter be settled. The ball is in your court. Until you decide to do more than insult the the people who organize gatherings, you can accomplish nothing. If you're interested in actually discussing fact about what was,was not, is, is not, thought, said, implied, made up, or guessed, please feel free to do so. I'm sure I'm not the only person who would be more than willing to step up to the plate and talk to you. Can we just stop the insanity of this back and forth and get to some kind of point? Maybe you just adore the look of my words on the screen. 😛

Jo

 

[Oddjob0226]

How would you handle rowdy guests, guests who are breaking your house rules (friends are not)?

If it's at my private dwelling, as a last resort I'd put them out the door. If it's at a rental site, a 'rent-a-dungeon', the management where we held our gathering would have no problem doing that or calling the police if need be (like I said, last resort).


[/B][/QUOTE] To be honest, even I suffered a concussion at a West Coast Gathering. And although no one seemed to be at fault, and many of us crack jokes about it, as a bound lee, the unbound lers had a job to keep me safe. They were the ones who I trusted most of my element of control to. And banging my head on a hard bookshelf looking headboard.... OUCH!
[/B][/QUOTE]

This is called 'an accident'. They happen anywhere, no matter who you're with, and occur at any time. I got a concussion at Rocky Horror once. At the end, when we're all spinning the globe and the criminologist with no neck stops the globe and everyone runs to the right side of the theater, some dumb dame runs in to me by going to the left, running in the opposite direction that the cast had been going for the last 8 years. Harumph, say I.

 

[Limeoutsider]

Re: Jesus Christ on a Crutch.

these are NOT the kinds of displays that gives me any confidence in attending a gathering, people. As if there wasn't enough to worry about, I now have the impression I can offend someone and news of which shall spread like wildfire throughout the entire community, all while not even knowing because the person I offended decided to complain about it after the fact.

just great.

I regret to inform you that Jesus Christ and all derogaroty expressions involving his name and father's name are MINE as for rodwy guests, Id personally use the 3 strike policy, unless it was something major then Id ask them to leave

 

[TicklingDuo]

Re: Re: Re: Jesus Christ on a Crutch.

...I posted specifically because dvnc, and to a lesser extent, other gathering hosts solicit my input. I feel that it's to their best interest to keep back-and-forths about he-said-she-said and "politics" out of the public eye lest they dissuade people from wanting to attend their gatherings.

Absolutely! Everyone, please take a chill pill or something! 😛 There really isn't a need for all this arguing. We've asked EVERYONE to voice their honest opinions. How can they do so with people jumping down their throats the moment they do it? We can correct misunderstandings without taking things personally...or having the mighty Drew70 jump in to defend our honor. 😉

In the midst of all the misunderstandings, there are some valid questions and concerns that we need to look at. We HAVE asked for it to be shared. Though I don't care for the way some of it has been presented, truth is truth and lie is lie. (BTW, I'm not saying that Sunrise is the one telling the lies...but possibly believing them?) There's no way that so much could happen in the very short lifespan of the list. My guess is that one or two incidents have been blown totally out of proportion and presented as being a wave of repression. That's simply not the case.

If we keep cool and talk about things rationally, I think we can correct some of this. Unfortunately, I'll be at NEST and away from my computer. So, provided everyone hasn't killed one another, I'll pick this back up on Monday.

Y'all have a nice weekend and try to play nice. 😀

Ann

 

[Sunriseticklee]

The OBVIOUS??? Sunrise, in case you are not getting your Yahoo messages. Out of my 1600 plus posts, you came up with one single thread that somehow backs up your statement that I walk out of threads leaving you hanging. LOL Forgive me, but are you kidding? One topic? AND, mind you, there were actually TWO threads on the same topic and I posted in both. I left when it turned into a flame war worthy of shutting down the thread. I'm not the ONLY one who left the topic either. What say you about the others?

The other thing was something from AMT. I haven't been on AMT in almost TWO YEARS I think! I don't even remember the last time I posted there. I was on AOL back then, and I've not even had aol in over a year. I don't even know what thread you're talking about over there. In that amount of time, I'll have probably changed my mind 5 times on a topic anyway. 😛

Here's the on-topic problem. You're using the host list as your target practice because some yet un-named person supposedly said something about you. You're clumping all the hosts together in one person. That's about as unfair as anything else that has been bantered around here. You're playing a victim, blaming the hosts in part, yet not letting us in on the big secret so we can state yes or no regarding our "involvement" or gain/loss from the aformentioned statment against you. To my knowledge, I've never accused you of being something you're not. But you're doing that. Why are you saying the people who hold gatherings have crossed you? To my knowledge, I've never had a problem with you until I got in this thread and my character is smeard by you dragging all of the hosts in your personal problem that started with one person.

Now I think you've figured out that I can talk a subject to death along with the best of them, but I'd rather this matter be settled. The ball is in your court. Until you decide to do more than insult the the people who organize gatherings, you can accomplish nothing. If you're interested in actually discussing fact about what was,was not, is, is not, thought, said, implied, made up, or guessed, please feel free to do so. I'm sure I'm not the only person who would be more than willing to step up to the plate and talk to you. Can we just stop the insanity of this back and forth and get to some kind of point? Maybe you just adore the look of my words on the screen. 😛

Jo

Ok... let me do it this way.
There have been times when you were posting to a thread and you said your say and left. And when you said you were doing it this time, it didn't bother me, because you've done it before. I figure that is just the way you are.

I don't know how many times I have got to say that I don't give a rat's big hairy booty whether you stay or leave, post, don't post, dance on your head, eat a biscuit, throw it up, I don't care if you never talk to me again or talk until you think YOU have heard your own voice enough.

It doesn't really mean anything to me. Not trying to be rude or funny (right here), the thought of you didn't even cross my mind when I was typing this thread. The thought of you doesn't really cross my mind too much to tell the truth. So you can be offended, or you can get over it.

You asked me for an example, I gave you two. (I was not referring to posting on AMT. I was referring to the AMT thread that everyone jumped on Drew 70 for). If you didn't like it, you shouldn't have asked. *shrug* And like I was going to search and do cross references for them. I remembered them off the top of my head. Mainly because of the goofy statements said in them.

And there have been times when I've actually agreed with you on some subjects, yet and still, you leave the threads. And? You took my statement as a personal attack. HAHAHA... please. I just saw it is a blanket statement that basically meant I wasn't surprised that you left. Shrug and I wasn't, and never ever will be.

You wanna lick your wounds because you believe I put you down so bad after saying that I thought that was just how your personality was, feel free. But if I wanted to attack you personally, I can come better than that. I mean, after all.... you said I've been insulting people in this entire thread. You'd think I'd be an expert at it.

(Oh and out of your 1600 posts, take in affect the ones I actually seen/ read, the ones posted when I was actually here at TMF, and the ones that you and I both posted on... scientifically, it would be impossible to find probably even 50-100 posts that we both participated in. You made your number sound so big, when in actuality it really isn't.)

As for the on topic problem. If I choose to discuss it with someone, no doubt it will show up on "the list" by someone 🙄 and then maybe your appetite for information will be satisfied. Good enough?

My problems weren't with you so you can keep your "ball" in your own "court". I don't need you to help me in my quest for the truth. There were only a few people who I spoke to who happen to be a part of your list as well. Chances are, we were friends long before the list started. And only one person I spoke to who could have done what I know was done, because at the time, that person was the only one I was speaking to. I wanted the person to know that I didn't appreciate what they did, and I've done it. There is NO way possible the person doesn't know what I am talking about. It could be possible that the person maybe is no longer a part of the list and is away from TMF (hasn't seen the post), or that the person is too chicken to speak up.

But since folks are asking, the thing you can do for me on your "list's behalf", NEXT TIME anyone says I have said something, done something, hurt somebody, been hurt by somebody.... any of that he said she said crap.... Come and see me. Ask me what I did and said before people start the lies and the rumors. It keeps people from getting their feelings hurt or from getting pissed off and deciding just to say screw everyone involved! (When enough people lie to you, that's how the generalizations evolve and that's how I start feeling.) Since ya'll share so much, it would have been nice for someone to straight up and ask me before something was believed to be truth second hand and then spread behind my back.

It is uncomfortable to have someone confront you looking all sad and hurt about something you've done and you realize you haven't done it. Worst to know that the person who did it was someone you trusted and cared about with all of your heart. (I mean... how many times have I put myself on the line for this person!? *shakes head*)

Basically, I don't want to resolve anything with the person who provided deceitful info, <u>if</u> they don't have the guts to own up to it. They come to me, and I'll deal with them one on one. They wanna be shady and continue to sit in silence, that's fine! Th will come out eventually.

And yep, I did make generalizations ahout the hosting list. <U>Some</U> of the hosts who know me probably understand that I don't feel that way about them. You can be offended if you want, but there are people on your list that fit a couple of those discriptions. Deny it if you like, that's cool, but I know better. I mean, even ya'll can't agree what is going on!

It's funny because some of the hosts are saying that none of the negative things I mentioned ever ever happen. Some are saying they have happened only a couple of times, and then their are others who are saying, yeah, there are people who try to get us to sway this way and that (negativity based on strictly personality reasons and not safety), but we don't.

I don't feel as if ALL of the gathering hosts "crossed" me because I can't even begin to compile a list in my mind of who you all are. Sure I think it is shitty that there are people who have elected themselves over me and who can privately call the shots on how "involved" some folks can be in the community. (Safety wise, I think it is cool if no one is lying, personality wise, well that's the shitty part) But did that piss me off? Not really. I'm no longer naive about it though.

Sure I think it is shitty that I have friends on both sides, "good guys, bad guys" (and I'm not talking about one recent incident by the way). Obviously the good guys are saying that all of these people decided to leave the community on their own. And the bad guys who are equally my friends are saying, man I pissed the wrong person off and he got me ousted. And I haven't taken sides because frankly, I don't know who is telling the truth. I do know that I like (or liked) both sets of friends (Things only changed when the lies effected me). What I don't like is this catch 22.

You secretly ban or suspend people from gatherings. They may or may not know it. They may know why or may not know why. Maybe it isn't a ban, maybe your other friend just doesn't want to be in the same 1000 foot radius as them.

The reasons are good enough for ya'll to discuss and share. The incidents are bad enough for you to ban and suspend, and yet since only YOU know about it, what is to stop them from meeting privately with Jill (Who didn't know over the course of the summer Johnny X went from Dashing to dangerous!) and beating her ass?

Are you taking responsibility for trying to improve and maintain the community's safety or just your own safety? You can't have it both ways.

And the thing with the personalities... that is so iffy! Someone may be cool as hell to me and they may make you wanna throw up. People start not inviting someone places because of personality conflicts then that person is going to find him/ or herself completely alone. It could be that person's fault, or it could be something that they had no control over.

How many people have you pulled to the side and said... "Dude, the girls want to tickle you but your feet stink. Come on!"

Any of you hosts felt truly annoyed by someone and yet didn't say anything to them? How many of you did?

Next time around you decided not to invite them. They may or may not even know the reason why. And if it was because you were freaked out by my annoying habit to burp loudly during a tickle session, then let me know. There might be some medication for that.

It sounds like I'm not the only person who has some things to work out.

Your words look oh so good to me. If I don't get to see them on this thread again, I hope I will see them soon! 😛 Yummy!

Sunrise

Oh and Oddjob, I believe I did label what happened as an accident. And I do believe I said that sometimes people can get hurt at gatherings, but hey, it is still the responsibility of all involved to maintain the safety of everyone who is at the event.

It's unfortunate that thin skinned people got offended when I mention that I got hurt. I'm not the first nor the last. Sometimes these things happen. And hey, it was public knowledge before hand, I only stated it as an example. But thinking about it, it makes me wonder if the people only got offended because they thought it may make them look bad. So then they decided to post what they imagined or surmised that I "felt" or "said". What games people play... tsk tsk. Seems to be all about their rep I suppose. It's funny when they post about it, but when I do, it's offensive. Heeheehee. What a double standard.

It is nice to showcase all of the wonderful things that can happen at gatherings and munches, but that doesn't make it a sin to point out that people need to be watchful and dilligent because unexpected things (sometimes negative) can happen too. I have posted this before on other posts. (Positive things too... GASP! What a surprise!)

I think the reason why it struck a nerve this time is because I also added in my disgust for the ones who have lied and deceived people. I know... I should have just put up a thread that said Lying Backstabbing BITCHES Really Do Exist and then just let all my feelings out. Maybe this thread could have been easier to follow. But then, it probably would have gotten deleted immediately because of the title.

The people who I "generalized negatively" know who they are. But to be honest, there are some who do not fit that mold (or at least to my knowledge they don't). They may be apart of the Tickling Crisis/Rehabilition Gathering List Unit, but I don't know. And that Unit may or may not exist.

That's about it. (No spell check this time folks... sorry)

 

[QBWeaver]

What the heck happened here!

Good Grief! I'm pretty amazed how this all got so crazy but I would like to address some of the points.

At gatherings we have a list of rules. These are primarily there because we sometimes use bondage at a gathering. Anyone who's never been involved in bondage is probably also not aware of some pretty standard BDSM rules of play. By covering those rules everyone is aware of what's ok and not ok to do.

I'd hate to have another lady show up, be bound and be gang tickled when that's not what she was wanting or what she expected. And I'd DEFINITELY not be happy if she were touched in private places or worse. That is not tolerated. You'd be amazed at the emails requesting information on NEST where people are asking... "How many girls will I get to have?", Can I grab any girl I see and tickle her?, or "I hope you find me a really pretty partner for NEST". Those things are standard questions or statements that prove why rules are required.

It's for the safety of all. If you go into the gatherings section you will find several links with some of the standard rules of play. Most of it is just common sense but with bondage involved we will stress the rules so everyone can have fun within the limits.

During the gathering we have DM's, or Dungeon Managers, who stroll the party to check on things. They help with bondage situations, check to make sure everyone is following the rules and deal with any situations that show up. I was a DM last NEST and spoke to one lady after the party (several months later) and found out that she wanted a one on one with a guy and was interrupted several times by other people joining in. Actually, I was one of those people but I didn't know what she wanted. I'm not a mind-reader so there was no way to know there was a problem. There is a high level of responsibility both for the DM's and for the Lee's and Ler's at the party. I expect a Lee to let someone know their particulars prior to the fun beginning. If they don't speak up then there's nothing I can do as a DM to help. She and I have spoken about this since then and she promises she'll make sure she communicates prior to playing.

What happens if someone is a problem? Well we've sure had that from time to time. Some of the people were spoken to at the time but were allowed to stay providing all the people involved were in agreement. One guy was spoken to post party and after given several chances to straighten up he was banned and he knows it. One gal was banned for a variety of reasons and she knows why. Each situation was different.

I remember one situation dealing with an odor problem with one attendee. That was easy to resolve with some soap and water for that period but then the same person created havoc with several other folks which lead to their being banned and they certainly know why. It had nothing to do with the odor problem but with back-stabbing and a mix of other things.

How does one get banned from gatherings? It varies. Not following the rules after repeated discusstions about that issue, safety factors, attitude, not playing well with others, causing harm purposely.... each situation is different so it's hard to say what specifically would ban a person. One guy was banned after aggressively pursuing the girlfriend of another guy post NEST - the "girlfriend" was banned as well. So it all varies.

It just seems like this is all pointed to a recent situation discussed here in TMF. In that case there is a huge amount of background information that is not going to be shared with everyone here. There's no need to trash anyone and actually we were hoping that situation would resolve itself and that the person involved would be welcomed back at the next NEST. Time will tell.

I just wanted to add that the Hosts email list's primary purpose was to share information about rules, helpful hints, recommendations on how to ensure a fun, safe party. Included in some of those discussions were the fact that a person may be banned from one gathering but welcomed at another. It's the same as with any private party. Some people get along great while others don't. As a Host I want to have a good mix of people who enjoy being around each other. Just because a person is banned from one gathering doesn't mean they are necessarily banned from all. That's as it should be. The Hosts were trying to come up with a way to deal with those situations in a cohesive manner thus making it easier for other Hosts to run parties especially when they've never done it before.

Now that answers pretty much of the questions but I still feel there is a huge underlying issue that probably should not be discussed here but privately. I'll email you Sun because if I'm involved at all with the situation I'd like to get to the bottom of it and get it resolved. I do have a feeling about what's behind this whole thing and I'd like to get to the bottom of it.

So much of what was written doesn't make sense to me. There are things that should be "obvious" but they sure aren't. So let's clear it up and move on.

ok... Now I have NESTing stuff to do so I'm outta here!

 

[AffectionateDan]

Ahhhhhhh...

...AHHHHHHH....

...AHHHHHH....

CHOOOOO!!!!!

(horrifed, claps both hands over nose and mouth) Oh no! Did that OFFEND someone?!?! Can I still come to NEST?

Sheesh. Gimme a break.

Somebody must not have taken their meds.

 

[dvnc]

Phineas, brother, Drew70 is just questionin' things. He's like you, that way. Questions what he don't see likewise. He just comes off as grittier than the kinder-gentler nation of websites. USENET does that to a body. Wit' us old-school geeks, y'gotta filter, visually, some of the commentary.

Oddly, when ya do, the man was standin' up for questionin' stuff, while standin' up for the events. Given that he used to question such events, reasonably, IMHO, it's kinda flattering t'me and mine. I do apologize to ya for any flack ya perceive while you question, though, man. Yours are appreciated, focused, and so far have represented a great number of private mails I've received over the years.

Oh, and for the viewing audience, no one is prevented from attending without knowing they're prevented from attending. The child-molesters (yes, there were two, one from the USENET days and one of the original attendees) that were prevented from these were told. Folks that have indicated resistance to respecting a host's desire for a controlled environment for their guests (i.e. "I don't wanna be made to stop, if I'm enjoying what I do"). Examples abound. Point is, no one gets bounced without an indication of such. No one is uninvited without being told why. Such wouldn't help anyone.

Oh, and SOME folks HAVE been blocked from events, have made good on such, and have since attended. One, in particular for me, is actually one of the better contributors for these events, and I respect the man more for his "reformation" than I would for someone who just naturally behaved. That cat actually made mistakes, pissin' off SEVERAL of my friends, mis-touching hosts in inappropriate manners, and made good on such. Who is he? That's another reason for a private hosts list. No one outside of the hosts of that time will ever know, 'cause it ain't necessary. Man did bad, man made good, man's forgiven. Took many months, and several face-to-face meetings, and some watched time at events, but he's been back for some time now. I actually miss the man, now that I'm so far from California.

Taking that info, apply the reality to the spin from a clearly-upset young lady concerning such. Talk to the folks attending NEST. Talk to others who've attended gatherings. I think you'll find that Sunrise is upset about something she doesn't understand correctly, something that someone must have told her, rumor style. Something that has been spun to set her off. Take a good, long look, though. The Tickle Scene site, the West Coast Gatherings site, the gatherings section, several dozen threads on AMT (find-able through deja.com and other USENET archives) have a great deal of information, both rumor and fact. If you're gonna judge such, and WANT to believe that these events are worth what we say they are, this will give you a great deal more information.

That, or decide that Sunrise is right, that all them folks talkin' good about these events are wrong. It's possible that we all are. That these are a bad thing. It's possible, too, that everyone affirming such is a personal friend of mine, that they're all acting in collusion with me, and that this is all a big conspiracy. I'm a big X-Files fan, too, after all. I just know my own end of this. You should see such, though. Investigate, learn, know. Then visit.

Gatherings ain't the only way. If there were munches for us back when I first wanted to see such, when Lou first started these on the West Coast (yep, Lou was the originator of the idea. I just carried it out), there weren't munches. No safe way to visit and get to know your host, and some of the crew. Now, there are munches. Ask your local host about munches. No local host? Ask others in your area to meet for a munch, a simple meeting in a public restaurant or grill. Use the Gatherings section, post in your section of the world, and call for a munch. Ain't seen anyone carry through more than once that hasn't seen rewarding results. If one of you did, and I missed it, do post here. I should know. In the mean time, go meet one another. Socialize. Start your OWN gathering. If you like the rules and structure of the stuff on my website or on the Tickle Scene site, consider talkin' wit' other hosts, gettin' on that list, and learnin' the fast way what some of us learned slowly, by trial and error. Get the tips on how to AVOID havin' someone injury themselves, how to moderate a scene, how to see everyone is handled properly so they're happy, how to organize events, get help, find locations, etc., etc..

Or don't. Gotta love the freedom to research if you want to, learn if you wish, and participate as you wish in things social.

Yeah, I'm a bit of a preacher for my cause. Do please forgive me my zeal for them.

dvnc

 

[JoBelle]

I knew it would happen.

I'm amused by it.

Reasonable, well thought out replies to emotionally charged posts of half truths has resulted in a rehash of information. Exaggeration whittled away to reality. Nothing new has been presented for consideration. *shrug* Seems to me this was all flame bait disguised as curiosity about gathering safety anyway. But, that's just MY opinion .🙄

I'm still wondering why Sunrise insists that she has been talked about by the gathering hosts that have taken the time to chat with one another. Her name was not brought up in the realm of group emails a single time. Somehow, I was left out of just those emails apparently. Are the hosts on the list purposely not sending me all those emails about Sunrise? Or, wait....maybe it was just an individual who happened to be a host who had an opinion about her. I mean, I'm a host, and I had coffee this morning! OH MY GOD! ALL THE HOSTS MUST HAVE HAD COFFEE! I see how this works now.

In he end, I still say that The Tickle Scene (see the bottom of Ann’s post for a link) is a fantastic source for ACTUAL gathering safety issues. I also say that in spite of the few people who seems to hold a grudge against a couple of organizers of gatherings, the concept of getting together in a safe environment with other’s is a good thing.

We’ve been hosting gatherings for YEARS.
We’ve been dealing with problems in the same fashion for YEARS.
We hosts been talking amongst ourselves for YEARS.
A couple of months ago we just started using one email address to do it. Hence "The List." Sad that it’s suddenely such an issue. Get thee to a gathering folks. Enjoy it. It’s nothing like the crap you’ve seen here. 😀

I guess it’s ok for certain folks to vent THEIR views against people, but when the defense uses the same tactics it’s all some grand scheme. A double standard is a wonderful thing if swung by an illogical mind like a battering ram of ignorance and self-centeredness.

Hope NEST goes well. Can’t wait to hear about it!

Joby

**😉 to a dear for letting me borrow a couple of his words.**hehe

 

[Moses25]

Re: Ahhhhhhh...

...AHHHHHHH....
...AHHHHHH....
CHOOOOO!!!!!
(horrifed, claps both hands over nose and mouth) Oh no! Did that OFFEND someone?!?! Can I still come to NEST?
Sheesh. Gimme a break.
Somebody must not have taken their meds.

No, you may not come to NEST - sneezing is banned.

And yes, you have offended me, for I have been "slimed" by your "sneeze".

Futhermore, my prescription for my l'il purple pills is being filled at the moment. Have mercy...and patience, Danimal.

Cheers.😀

 

[Mimi]

I'm just chiming in my own experiences on these issues at hand.

First off, I have been with the now apparently deemed "evil" host list since it started a few months back. And not ONCE did I ever see Sunrise's name mentioned. Not in casual discussion, not in relation to gatherings, not in relation to the forum, nothing. Not a single incident that I ever witnessed.

Secondly, about the injury issue. This is a direct quote of one of the rules/regulations that I issue to EVERYONE who expresses interest in attending my event, long before they are even confirmed to attend:

"While your host/hostess will do everything possible to make your
experience an enjoyable and memorable one, please be advised that we
cannot be held responsible for accidents, injury, illness while you
are at the party. This will be a "play at your own risk" party."

Myself, the DM's, and your approved lers WILL do everything they can to keep a lee safe while engaged in play. But sometimes accidents DO happen, and hence you must play at your OWN risk, and be aware that you alone are the commander of your body, and if you do not wish to take the risk of suffering such an injury, then perhaps you shouldn't play. Accidents like that are few and far between. But you have to be aware that they CAN happen and DO happen on occassion, and unless someone directly caused you harm, you can not lay responsibility on anyone but yourself. It's much like playing sports. The coach and coaching staff will do what they can to keep their players safe, and you wear all the protective gear and such, but sometimes you DO suffer an injury while playing the sport. Can you blame your coach? Nope. Can you blame your team mates? Nope. It was no one's fault. You are playing at your own risk, knowing you COULD suffer an injury, and there is no one to point the finger at if you do.

Lastly, on one of the purposes of the host list...the exchange of opinions and information of potential attendees. I had two people whom wanted to attend the gathering in which I turned to my fellow hosts for a second opinion. One of them was one who had given some folks in the community a bad impression online. He is quick with his temper, known to flame on occassion, and has upset numerous people in the community based on his online personality alone. I was a bit skeptic about letting him attend based on what I has seen of him online. I KNEW he had attended gatherings before, so I turned to those who could vouch for his behavior in a live gathering setting. I'm glad I did. Turned out he's a super guy in person. Plays very well, is very mature and respectable, and treats the lees like gold. Without being able to exchange information with the other hosts, I'd likely not have allowed him to attend, and could potentially have missed out on a great asset to the gathering. The second one was quite the opposite as the first. Online he was utterly charming, very intelligent, quite mature, and came across as the kind of guy I could use the services of as a DM. Again, I knew he had attented other gatherings, so once more I turned to my fellow hosts for a second opinion on him before I made the decision. And once again I was glad I did. This time the news came to me that this particular gentlemen had offended quite a large number of people at past events. He does not believe in safe words, he does not play safetly, and he has been known to call the female lees a variety of very offensive and vulgar names. In the past he had done nothing severe enough (despite those marks against him) to merit him being banned from events (hence why it was said that you must REALLY do something quite TERRIBLE and UNFORGIVABLE to be banned from gatherings). So I decided to take a chance and give him the benefit of the doubt (again as was stated above, just because one hosts does not like a person, does not mean they are banned from other hosts events. I over-stepped the recommendation I was given, and still allowed him to attend). Allowing him to come turned out to be bitter-sweet. He DID cause problems at my gathering, but his offenses were severe enough that he has now merited a ban from future gatherings for most of the hosts. Had I not allowed him to attend and ruin things for himself, he would likely have gone on to attend future gatherings, and could have caused even larger problems for another host down the road. At least at my gathering, while what he did was completely inexcusable and very unsafe, we were able to maintain control of the situation and were able to keep things from getting even further out of hand. I have every reason to believe this man is very dangerous, and had it NOT been for the host list, and our exchange of information about problem attendees, that he could very likely have gone on to hurt or endanger a lee at a future event. Fortunately, BECAUSE of the host list, you likely will not be seeing him at any future events, and your safety is not at stake.

So we DO serve a very important purpose with our group. We are not some turned-up-nosed clique that unite together simply because we are hosts and therefore are better than people who have not. That is just absurd. We love hosting gatherings, and we love providing the service that we do, so we formed the list to help make all of our future events that much better through the course of shared ideas and information. What could possibly be bad about that?

Mimi

 

[Oddjob0226]

Oh and Oddjob, I believe I did label what happened as an accident. And I do believe I said that sometimes people can get hurt at gatherings, but hey, it is still the responsibility of all involved to maintain the safety of everyone who is at the event.

I know, I know; all's I'm saying is no one is arguing it ISN'T the responsability of all involved to maintain safety. No matter how safe you are, out of the 1,000s of people on the TMF, the tens of gatherings held each year, multiplied over several years, there's gonna be some head bumping going on somewhere no matter how safe we are. The concept is illustrated further when sucessful lawsuits over food poisoning are actually rare becuase the law states that restaurants are only responsible for reasonable food safty (poisoning can still occur even when everything is done right); movies like Corky Romano get made, and I was in 2 car wrecks in 3 days back in February (one caused by a nice Jewish doctor in a BMW, one by a foreign cab driver named Faisal. Not only does it confirm my belief that stereotypes do exsist, but I have my eyes wide open now for Mexicans in lowriders or any Amish in buggys headed my way....)

 

[QBWeaver]

Hey Cheryl.... Next time I'm bringing the helmet for you to wear! heheheheheh

But seriously... accidents DO happen. Cheryl's noggin, Lite's toe last year... it happens. It's life. and so we move on.

 

[Sunriseticklee]

I'm still wondering why Sunrise insists that she has been talked about by the gathering hosts that have taken the time to chat with one another. Her name was not brought up in the realm of group emails a single time. Somehow, I was left out of just those emails apparently. Are the hosts on the list purposely not sending me all those emails about Sunrise? Or, wait....maybe it was just an individual who happened to be a host who had an opinion about her. I mean, I'm a host, and I had coffee this morning! OH MY GOD! ALL THE HOSTS MUST HAVE HAD COFFEE! I see how this works now.

Yep... after all this time I've decided to finally get ya'll all back by making up this entire story. Hey... it took me 3 years to make up. It was in my master plan since I met most of ya'll 3 years ago.

If you think back, you may have seen it coming. I mean think of all the times I have flipped out on you. And I'm surprised some of you were even seen in public with me (MORE THAN ONCE ).

And since I've been known all over the community for all these 3 years to have an irrationally violent temper, and also known to be just the biggest liar and two faced backstabber this side of the Mississippi, it is easy to see that this is just another fabrication. Just one of those same old scams that Sunriseticklee thought up. I can't believe the girl from Louisiana figured it out first!

Back to square one! 🙄

As for something someone told me about rumor style.... That's not quite how it happened. Used to be a bunch of people who just happened to be a part of the community, now part of the list that I cared about and trusted. Some of these people I communicated with off and on pretty consistantly though. Most of the time when you tell someone something and you ask for what is shared to be between you and that person, most of the time (even though you know there is a slight chance things will go wrong), you hope you can trust the person. The more you know them, the more you trust them. You tell them things.

So you hear about a lot of crazy things going on in the community. More than one issue, more than one person involved. (It isn't just about this one person's issue as some may think and keep referring to.) Most of the people happened to be your friends, and you may be disturbed about it, but it doesn't concern you, you don't know what really happened. You just hope the people work it out.

But when you only trust one person with one piece of information, and it comes back to you totally twisted, and you found out that information was used by a number of other people (some of them are playing dumb now) to "confront" someone as if it were true, then it is different. It suddenly involves you. You think to yourself, "Man! The least they could have done was ask me. I've done nothing to them! What gives them the right to confront someone unjustly on my behalf?" And these people used the power of this list to do so.

I do think safety is really really important. It isn't something to take lightly or ignore. I'm sure most of you feel the same, but that is not my problem. My problem is with the people who have misused their position in this community. And I do have a problem with the people who took advantage of me as well.

It that isn't you, then fine, I'll accept that. But to come on here and say that this misuse never happens, that no one ever does it, and that I'm imagining things.... That's just as absurd.

Do whatever you like. Just keep me out of it from now on.

Thanks!