tklmaestro
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Grassroots Republican revolts where people stand around and demand their country back.
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Town Hall Meetings and their True Cause
Grassroots Republican revolts where people stand around and demand their country back.
general zod1
TMF Master
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Once you start banning people and their free speech,where do you stop?
melanie2
4th Level Blue Feather
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did i say it should stop?
Abadon XXX1
2nd Level Red Feather
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*Simply just watches the insanity of the republicans on the daily show and colbert report as he hopes to have medical insurance that could help him and his mom out*
Celerich
TMF Poster
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What everyone needs to do is find the actual bill, and read all 1060 some odd pages of it. Everything you'll hear about it does indeed sound wonderful, but most of it's not true. I skimmed through a couple of points my mother pointed out for me, and some of it's scary stuff. For example, the Government will decide what we take and how much for all our medical problems. A board of, i think, 26 or some 20+ number, will get together and decide what is best. Two problems with that. Problem 1 is that only ONE of them has to be a trained doctor. The rest can be whatever. Problem 2 is that medicine is NOT a business. You can't treat all similar problems with the same thing, because everyone reacts differently to medication.
And as a final note, does nobody realize that if we adopt universal health care, it will destroy free market? This is all one mans humble opinion, and i am open for discussion of this. I will nor flame unless you say or do something moronic, like, i don't know...call me a baby killer? If that's the case, i WILL hunt you down and kill your baby. Anywho, carry on.
And as a final note, does nobody realize that if we adopt universal health care, it will destroy free market? This is all one mans humble opinion, and i am open for discussion of this. I will nor flame unless you say or do something moronic, like, i don't know...call me a baby killer? If that's the case, i WILL hunt you down and kill your baby. Anywho, carry on.
tklmaestro
TMF Regular
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Hold on.... wait.....we HAVE universal healthcare in this country. Its called the Emergency room and the free market hasn't been destroyed yet.
Rox_My_Sox1
3rd Level Orange Feather
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True but the emergency room (and the amubluence ride that might bring you there) costs major dinero! Many homeless people are in the streets of several USA cities and cannot afford health care. If they get sick, they suffer and die. I don't think our nation should let them just suffer and die without any form of medical aid. There may be no such thing as a free lunch in our world right now but it that the way it should really be in all cases (even in compassion)?
As for funding the universal health care plan, I believe last time I check Obama said it would be funded MOSTLY through the taxes of people who make over $200,000 dollars a year (which to me isn't a bad thing). Am I wrong on that?
Dave2112
Level of Cherry Feather
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When I started this thread, I just wanted to point out some shady practices that were being used ot skew perception. I never intended it to become a debate on the problem itself.
However, debate is a good thing. And, the debate that's started here actually proves my point...there's been no name calling, very little scare-talk (and that's pretty much been posted by those honestly misinformed) and no hostility. If we can get THAT kind of discussion and debate going where it counts, maybe we'd get somewhere.
Just a couple bullet points, from my own POV. I don't think there's a "conspiracy" on either side. Neither the Dems or Repubs can agree on what's best for their own party, let alone the country. Most are out for themselves and using you as an excuse.
There will be no government panel to decide your fate. Think about it. You really think there's gonna be a panel of 20-some people assigned to each patient? Come on? The manpower alone would bankrupt the system.
And my final bullet point for now is this: The one thing that keeps coming back on this is the illusion that free market economics and our beloved capitalism will suffer from a "government takeover"> There IS NO government takeover proposed. Just an alternative option FOR THOSE WHO WISH IT. No one's gonna end what some already have.
And to just comment on something Zod said for a moment...even though these meetings and such are becoming ridiculous, I agree that you can't silence people. I've known Zod for some time, we've agreed and disagreed on many things, but even though we seem to be on opposite sides of this, that is one thing I agree with. We simply have to protect even the right of the stupid to speak. If not, none of the rest of it matters. It's not up to the government to decide what people can or should say...it's up to YOU to decide what you should LISTEN to, and make your OWN choices based on facts YOU'VE found out or researched or discovered....not "heard from someone" or "read somewhere on a blog". And definitely not making a one-sided decision based on the ideas of the "side" that has everything to gain by telling you what you want to hear. Give the dissenting idea an honest chance, even if it goes against your grain. And that goes for both sides. I personally am in support of overhauling and remaking the health-care system. But I'm not totally in agreement with the current proposal. Something, but what? It's been said, and I agree. Most of us really don't know. But talking about it at least shows we have a stake in it and that's it's a decisive issue of our time.
I'm curious about something. Answer if you'd like. I have no agenda and am not trying to prove anything for or against either side of this. Basically, just some data I'd like to collect out of curiosity. So please...be honest. The person who loks at you in the mirror will know. If you've been involved in this debate or wish to simply post and answer here, just post a reply and say two things....if you are for or against health-care reform, and if you currently have adequate coverage. Like this, my own answer to kick things off.
I am in favor of health care reform, and I do not have coverage.
Again, I'm curious about something and want to get some data.
However, debate is a good thing. And, the debate that's started here actually proves my point...there's been no name calling, very little scare-talk (and that's pretty much been posted by those honestly misinformed) and no hostility. If we can get THAT kind of discussion and debate going where it counts, maybe we'd get somewhere.
Just a couple bullet points, from my own POV. I don't think there's a "conspiracy" on either side. Neither the Dems or Repubs can agree on what's best for their own party, let alone the country. Most are out for themselves and using you as an excuse.
There will be no government panel to decide your fate. Think about it. You really think there's gonna be a panel of 20-some people assigned to each patient? Come on? The manpower alone would bankrupt the system.
And my final bullet point for now is this: The one thing that keeps coming back on this is the illusion that free market economics and our beloved capitalism will suffer from a "government takeover"> There IS NO government takeover proposed. Just an alternative option FOR THOSE WHO WISH IT. No one's gonna end what some already have.
And to just comment on something Zod said for a moment...even though these meetings and such are becoming ridiculous, I agree that you can't silence people. I've known Zod for some time, we've agreed and disagreed on many things, but even though we seem to be on opposite sides of this, that is one thing I agree with. We simply have to protect even the right of the stupid to speak. If not, none of the rest of it matters. It's not up to the government to decide what people can or should say...it's up to YOU to decide what you should LISTEN to, and make your OWN choices based on facts YOU'VE found out or researched or discovered....not "heard from someone" or "read somewhere on a blog". And definitely not making a one-sided decision based on the ideas of the "side" that has everything to gain by telling you what you want to hear. Give the dissenting idea an honest chance, even if it goes against your grain. And that goes for both sides. I personally am in support of overhauling and remaking the health-care system. But I'm not totally in agreement with the current proposal. Something, but what? It's been said, and I agree. Most of us really don't know. But talking about it at least shows we have a stake in it and that's it's a decisive issue of our time.
I'm curious about something. Answer if you'd like. I have no agenda and am not trying to prove anything for or against either side of this. Basically, just some data I'd like to collect out of curiosity. So please...be honest. The person who loks at you in the mirror will know. If you've been involved in this debate or wish to simply post and answer here, just post a reply and say two things....if you are for or against health-care reform, and if you currently have adequate coverage. Like this, my own answer to kick things off.
I am in favor of health care reform, and I do not have coverage.
Again, I'm curious about something and want to get some data.
TheChameleon
2nd Level Red Feather
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I have coverage, and I want reform.
The reason is...
I've had a broken tooth for almost 3 years. Can I afford to fix it? No, because my income level vs. my coverage does not allow me to pay the 500+ it costs to fix my broken tooth.
I don't go to the doctor for anything but freebies, because I can't afford to.
I HAVE COVERAGE IF I GET HIT BY A CAR OR GET CANCER but I cannot take care of my lower back pain or my arthritis. I'm paying dollar after dollar, month after month, to get nothing but routine checkups to which my doctor refers me to a specialist I cannot afford to pay.
Actually, if I dropped Healthcare entirely, I could probably afford to pay for more out of pocket. The Freebies aren't helping anyway.
The reason is...
I've had a broken tooth for almost 3 years. Can I afford to fix it? No, because my income level vs. my coverage does not allow me to pay the 500+ it costs to fix my broken tooth.
I don't go to the doctor for anything but freebies, because I can't afford to.
I HAVE COVERAGE IF I GET HIT BY A CAR OR GET CANCER but I cannot take care of my lower back pain or my arthritis. I'm paying dollar after dollar, month after month, to get nothing but routine checkups to which my doctor refers me to a specialist I cannot afford to pay.
Actually, if I dropped Healthcare entirely, I could probably afford to pay for more out of pocket. The Freebies aren't helping anyway.
chickles_:)
1st Level Red Feather
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Hiya everyone! :Angel_anim:
In my experience, "town hall meetings" can be useful or a cover for someone who likes to hear themselves talk.
I worked for this place once and we had regular (about quarterly) mandatory meetings in which the senior manager came and made a short, if somewhat bombastic, presentation but then actually took questions. Naturally there would be the regular 3 or 4 people who would get up and pontificate on some minor point they were convinced was of importance to us all (-NOT!) Still, I had to hand it to the manager guy. He actually listened and generally there was some fairly swift results or communications related to issues brought forward.
Then,, I worked for this other place where the deputy CEO would come occasionally with the message "I'm here to listen to you."
What a joke.
All he would do in 2 hours would be to deliver a monologue followed by maybe, if we were lucky, as many as 3 questions from the floor to which he would give further monologues of reasons why the question could not be addressed - "at this time" in other words "EVER."
These days, with my staff I usually hold a coffee klatsch every month and talk around the table about what is working and what we together think might work better. I find it generates a lot of good ideas and helps us keep doing what we do well. The round table keeps us all on the same team and helps control the 'blatherers' while the coffee and dessert helps make the experience more relaxed and enjoyable. 🙂
It's worked so far at least.
I guess I always figured that was kind of the point of town hall meetings. 😉
Many blessings,
In my experience, "town hall meetings" can be useful or a cover for someone who likes to hear themselves talk.
I worked for this place once and we had regular (about quarterly) mandatory meetings in which the senior manager came and made a short, if somewhat bombastic, presentation but then actually took questions. Naturally there would be the regular 3 or 4 people who would get up and pontificate on some minor point they were convinced was of importance to us all (-NOT!) Still, I had to hand it to the manager guy. He actually listened and generally there was some fairly swift results or communications related to issues brought forward.
Then,, I worked for this other place where the deputy CEO would come occasionally with the message "I'm here to listen to you."
What a joke.
All he would do in 2 hours would be to deliver a monologue followed by maybe, if we were lucky, as many as 3 questions from the floor to which he would give further monologues of reasons why the question could not be addressed - "at this time" in other words "EVER."
These days, with my staff I usually hold a coffee klatsch every month and talk around the table about what is working and what we together think might work better. I find it generates a lot of good ideas and helps us keep doing what we do well. The round table keeps us all on the same team and helps control the 'blatherers' while the coffee and dessert helps make the experience more relaxed and enjoyable. 🙂
It's worked so far at least.
I guess I always figured that was kind of the point of town hall meetings. 😉
Many blessings,
Dr. Bill Kobb
Level of Cherry Feather
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Dave2112
Level of Cherry Feather
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You know, that's a prety good point. Why the hell are teeth not considered a part of the human body when it comes to taking care of them? If you're in pain, you're in pain. If something's wrong or broken in your body, it's broken and needs to be fixed. The whole Dental vs. Doctor thing is the oldest and strongest of the specialization degenerations of the system.
But Dave, you say, dentists have specific training in the care of teeth that most doctors don't get. Ok, fine. But, if you go to the emergency room and your arm hurts, they'll get the orthopedist. If you go and your tooth is broken, there's no one to help. They pass you off and into a system that almost no one can afford. The system preaches to us from age 4 to brush, floss, your teeth are important, etc. Yet pretty much only gold cadillac coverage ever includes dental. No one wants to pay for it, it's considered "non vital".
Here's a great example of how the system is failing. Bit of a backstory, I'm lucky enough to live right across the border of Quebec and within 20 minutes of a practicing dentist in Hemmingford, QC who'll do things like extractions for around $40-50 US. In fact, a friend of mine with serious dental problems had every one extracted, full plates made and fitted...and the whole she-bang cost about $600 US back in the mid-90's. However, she's not an oral surgeon. I had a molar that had cracked so badly and close to the surface that it couldn't be extracted, it needed to be cut out.
While trying to get my shit together (meaning money and an appointment within six months), the nerve finally became fully exposed and a worse hellish nightmare of pain you cannot imagine. I mean, I'm someone who's been shot...thrice. I know from pain. This was far worse. I went to the emergency room. To their credit, I wasn't immediately told they could do nothing. However, after waiting in their "fast track" section for five hours, one doctor did his best to at least give me a novocaine shot, which he had no idea how to do orally. LSS, I wound up getting the name of an oral surgeon that "might" be able to squeeze me in the next day. I said fuck it and borrowed the $200 his office quoted me to do the surgery and they fit me in.
I told you that story to get to the fucked-up part. While he's working, the oral surgeon tells me that he has no idea why the hospital didn't just page him. Apparently, he was the hospital's on-call emergency oral surgeon. He would have come down, opened the office, took care of the tooth and worked out payment with me. The hospital had no idea they even had an on-call oral surgeon. The system is so bogged down, so specialized that the left hand doesn't even know what the right hand is doing and the patients suffer.
THAT'S the reform people want. THAT'S the reform that the town-hall psychos and insurance companies don't want. It's not about "socializing medicine", it's not about "death panels" and "euthanasia camps" or all the other lies and twists. It's about giving people options, making sure that the most advanced nation in the world can care for its own citizens in the most basic and fundamental ways.
But Dave, you say, dentists have specific training in the care of teeth that most doctors don't get. Ok, fine. But, if you go to the emergency room and your arm hurts, they'll get the orthopedist. If you go and your tooth is broken, there's no one to help. They pass you off and into a system that almost no one can afford. The system preaches to us from age 4 to brush, floss, your teeth are important, etc. Yet pretty much only gold cadillac coverage ever includes dental. No one wants to pay for it, it's considered "non vital".
Here's a great example of how the system is failing. Bit of a backstory, I'm lucky enough to live right across the border of Quebec and within 20 minutes of a practicing dentist in Hemmingford, QC who'll do things like extractions for around $40-50 US. In fact, a friend of mine with serious dental problems had every one extracted, full plates made and fitted...and the whole she-bang cost about $600 US back in the mid-90's. However, she's not an oral surgeon. I had a molar that had cracked so badly and close to the surface that it couldn't be extracted, it needed to be cut out.
While trying to get my shit together (meaning money and an appointment within six months), the nerve finally became fully exposed and a worse hellish nightmare of pain you cannot imagine. I mean, I'm someone who's been shot...thrice. I know from pain. This was far worse. I went to the emergency room. To their credit, I wasn't immediately told they could do nothing. However, after waiting in their "fast track" section for five hours, one doctor did his best to at least give me a novocaine shot, which he had no idea how to do orally. LSS, I wound up getting the name of an oral surgeon that "might" be able to squeeze me in the next day. I said fuck it and borrowed the $200 his office quoted me to do the surgery and they fit me in.
I told you that story to get to the fucked-up part. While he's working, the oral surgeon tells me that he has no idea why the hospital didn't just page him. Apparently, he was the hospital's on-call emergency oral surgeon. He would have come down, opened the office, took care of the tooth and worked out payment with me. The hospital had no idea they even had an on-call oral surgeon. The system is so bogged down, so specialized that the left hand doesn't even know what the right hand is doing and the patients suffer.
THAT'S the reform people want. THAT'S the reform that the town-hall psychos and insurance companies don't want. It's not about "socializing medicine", it's not about "death panels" and "euthanasia camps" or all the other lies and twists. It's about giving people options, making sure that the most advanced nation in the world can care for its own citizens in the most basic and fundamental ways.
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august spies
TMF Master
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i have fully paid full coverage and i am in favor of reform.
Everyone should read bill HR 676. its shorter and makes 100% more sense.
Everyone should read bill HR 676. its shorter and makes 100% more sense.
Public flood insurance, okay; Public health insurance, not okay
Posted on October 3rd, 2009 by ecthompson
Well, this is interesting. Both the Senate and the House supported a public option when it came to property; however, many in the House and Senate can’t support a similar public option when it comes to health insurance. Interesting.
http://www.whereistheoutrage.net/wo...urance-okay-public-health-insurance-not-okay/
http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/23/gop-favors-public-option-for-property-not-people/
Posted on October 3rd, 2009 by ecthompson
Well, this is interesting. Both the Senate and the House supported a public option when it came to property; however, many in the House and Senate can’t support a similar public option when it comes to health insurance. Interesting.
http://www.whereistheoutrage.net/wo...urance-okay-public-health-insurance-not-okay/
http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/23/gop-favors-public-option-for-property-not-people/
Dr. Bill Kobb
Level of Cherry Feather
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2003
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Gucci handbags! I knew they were the secret reason behind those town hall meetings!
Thank you for exposing the truth, opqr266 (you sack-of-shit spammer, you).
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