Triple Homocide in Medicine Hat

[yami]

This story's been giving me nothing but grief

Yeah... read and discuss. Being a goth in high school means I've had to put up with more and more shit from the other school cliques. They've repeatedly mentioned this incident and downcast my and my girlfriend quite a few times during the past week.

I just really really hate it. It's given us such a bad rep...

Blah. Read and discuss.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I think that when anything classified as occult or occult-like interests is involved in a murder case, and the accused is into goth and all that, then naturally there will be some profiling and discrimination involved and the authorities cannot afford to pass it up.

This may very well be nothing more than another case where a disturbed, young adult has lost touch with reality and leads a secret life his dear mother doesn't know about and this ends up getting mixed up in a murder.

As for a goth's rep, I think most people see goths as foolish clowns anyway, and the stereotype is your burden to carry and your liability so long as you go with that style.

 

[BigNorm]

the goths i've met in high school were cool, had a few close friends who were into it. and yes, just because one guy is coo coo for coa coa puffs, everyone whose goth gets the shaft.

 

[Hungarian21]

I agree with bignorm; heck, most of the highschools have a rather large percantage of goths these days. Just because this one went wacko, doesnt mean they all did. Sad story, but the world is not perfect, and will probably never be...🙁

 

[morgandee]

teenagers are dumb and pretentious and full of drama and cultures are full of idiotic

also homo-cide rolf killing gays

how anyone could claim to be goth is beyond me

most of them don't even know what it means and it is a monkey-see-monkey-do piece of shit pretense that is like "HEY WELL HE IS DOING THIS AND CLAIMS TO BE GOTH SO MAYBE I WILL DO THIS TOO AND BE GOTH AND FULL OF KEWLNESS" because their own personality is so fucking lame that they have to pretend to be something idiotic to feel worthwhile

yeah, that's what's up

 

[yami]

teenagers are dumb and pretentious and full of drama and cultures are full of idiotic

also homo-cide rolf killing gays

how anyone could claim to be goth is beyond me

most of them don't even know what it means and it is a monkey-see-monkey-do piece of shit pretense that is like "HEY WELL HE IS DOING THIS AND CLAIMS TO BE GOTH SO MAYBE I WILL DO THIS TOO AND BE GOTH AND FULL OF KEWLNESS" because their own personality is so fucking lame that they have to pretend to be something idiotic to feel worthwhile

yeah, that's what's up

Heh... exactly like the thinking of some of my classmates. Personally, I don't think you should be so rude. <_<

By the sounds of it, you had a bad time with goths. Well, that's what I can see. Care to tell? Not all are like that. I certainly am not. I may be be "dumb" and "pretentious", but I can listen, eh?

What's really up with you, Oriyaborealis? If you have to vent out anything, do it and I'll hear you. 😉

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Why would he, or anyone that speaks the truth like that, have to have a personal problem in order to feel that way? I feel practically the same way. He was pretty dead on accurate if you ask me and he told it like it was and is in 99.8% of all cases. Why should the 2% stand out for any reason or be excempt? Its too small a number to even matter anymore and what gothic was is hugely misunderstood by the majority, especially people at the middle and highschool level where cliches are naturally going to form and you want to belong regardless and without true knowledge of what is it you are professing to be or why you're even doing it when you don't fit the discription.

Funny how when ridiculed, called into question, or evaluated, people will always claim that "I'm not/we're not like the rest of them, I'm/we're different! We're not all like that!"

Yeah right. Everyone claims to be in the 2% and no one admits to being in the 98%, which most people are.

To say otherwise would be like saying that the 2% really represents the posers or sad and pathetic kids while the 98% represents the 'real' 'authentic' goths.

Gothic isn't something you can relive or be in this day and age anyway, and to try is what makes people laugh at you and look at your contemptuously and see you as a joke because you're trying to live out a time period of bygone days in a present day form and style without fully realizing what it was you were mimmicking to begin with and how wrong you are in the presentation of this theme.

The typical middle or highschool student's knowledge of what gothic is is so warped, lacking and influenced by pop culture that when they dress up and do this and that, they aren't anywhere close, yet they're all proud as if they were.

I'd say only about 2% are getting it right in the entire world, and no one at the highschool or middleschool level is likely educated enough to know it as anything more than a fad, and are falling into the 98% margin for that reason. Its so much easier to fall into a cliche than to actually research why you're doing what you're doing to begin with other than the monkey-see-monkey-do response he just mentioned.

Finally, you admit to being pretensious. Do you even know what that means? In your case, it would mean trying to look like something you're not. And if thats what you're doing, then what he said applies to you as well, yet you say that it doesn't, thus contradicting yourself...

 

[TheChameleon]

I don't understand what cliches or groups or things like that actually do for people.

If I wanted to hang out with myself, i'd sit in my closet and look at a mirror all day.

I hang out with a stern, select group. Of course, we all have at least 1 thing in common, and most of the time my friends HATE each other. But, they all enjoy me, and I enjoy them.

Remember, A social group comprised of people who act, dress, and live just like you won't help you learn anything new. For example, my girl now, she's into country music. I HATE country music, but, i've started to become accustomed to it, and perhaps enjoy a few songs. Then again, she wears really nice clothes, always has a name brand sweat-shirt on. Of course, I'm running around in A tattered flannel or A neon colored sweater, possibly A Suitcoat with Camouflage pants on... she's getting used to my funny hair and my random clothing.

My only advice is, give people who aren't exactly in your circle a chance. And, just because somebody dresses like you doesn't mean they're good people.

Oh, and highschool's a great place. Tell those kids who give you crap that you ARE a werewolf, or a vampire, or something, and that you do drink blood. If they give you crap still, or don't leave you alone, then let them think and act how they want. Remember, A goth wouldn't care either way.

^_^

on a lighter note... that kid's just messed up, IF he killed those people. We can't be raining down judgement, its not our place. (in my opinion.)

Anyway, I hope my little opinion helped... if not, oh well.

 

[yami]

Finally, you admit to being pretensious. Do you even know what that means? In your case, it would mean trying to look like something you're not. And if thats what you're doing, then what he said applies to you as well, yet you say that it doesn't, thus contradicting yourself...

I admitted to being pretentious to be funny. I like to kid a lot? Just 'cause I may dress like some sort of evil/zombie/dead/living/whatever the hell doesn't mean I don't try to make people laugh. Hey, maybe my humour is not for everybody.

Funny how when ridiculed, called into question, or evaluated, people will always claim that "I'm not/we're not like the rest of them, I'm/we're different! We're not all like that!"

Yeah right. Everyone claims to be in the 2% and no one admits to being in the 98%, which most people are.

To say otherwise would be like saying that the 2% really represents the posers or sad and pathetic kids while the 98% represents the 'real' 'authentic' goths.

Gothic isn't something you can relive or be in this day and age anyway, and to try is what makes people laugh at you and look at your contemptuously and see you as a joke because you're trying to live out a time period of bygone days in a present day form and style without fully realizing what it was you were mimmicking to begin with.

The typical middle or highschool student's knowledge of what gothic is is so warped, lacking and influenced by pop culture that when they dress up and do this and that, they aren't anywhere close.

Umm... I am in high school. Maybe my thinking is warped, but then again, it was always warped. I can admit to that. But hey, my maturity can't be as developed as yours, eh, Vlad?

But hey, at least I haven't gone and tried to kill people. I think that may be the 2% that you speak of. Heh, it actually might be a higher percentage, now that I think of it...

It doesn't matter what the label speaks. I'm just really angry that people think goths are homocidal maniacs at my school. I'm ok with being called a poseur, fool, etc., but I don't like being called a killer.

Maybe what oriyaborealis said applies to me, and I'm not willing to admit it. What you say may also apply to me too, Vlad.

But here comes a question: am I willing to accept it? Sure, I'll respect your views. If that's what you believe, then I can't change it. You can't change my views, either.

Meh... I should mention that I made this thread to vent out some stress...

I guess confusing everybody, including myself, is a pretty good stress reliever then, eh?

(Insert some random joke here)

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

You're not confusing me in the slightest. I see right through you, figurtively speaking of course, so theres no need to make a joke about it. 😛

If you're willing to admit that you're not willing to admit these things apply to you then thats good enough for me, because its just as well as admitting it. Whether or not you're too stubborn or proud to say so doesn't matter.

And no, the 2% I'm talking about has nothing to do with killing or murders. That wasn't even a part of the equation.

As far as being mad what people think, you have no one but yourself to blame, as the whole goth vibe is generally one of indifference, self-mortification, death, loathing, and other introverted passive agressive thoughts and behaviors. You choose to be a part of or associated with these things. These tie in too well with murder and thoughts of suicide. And for that reason, the goths are the first people whom the cops investigate and they're the first people to get the finger pointed at them in teen murder cases and situations like this article.

If you can accept the extremity of the goth look then you should be mature enough to accept the scrutiny which is placed upon it and the liability which is inherent therein.

In other words, stop bitching or change your choice of clothing or interests so you don't have to deal with it.

 

[Kalamos]

also homo-cide rolf killing gays

😀

 

[TheChameleon]

Austrailian Accent Chameleon: "Even in the midst of the most serious of arguments, the Kalamos has time to smile at something it deems humorous."

*quietly stepping closer tot he Kalamos...*

"Be very careful, disturbing the Rogue Drafter can be very dangerous!"

 

[mdizzle]

My cousin is a goth and she's a moron. She's jigged out all the time and is dropping out of school. I went over to there place once to hang out and they were all jigging in a damn energy circle. Not really good company. Some goth dude had a bass and he sucked complete ass. Manson's bass lines are simple shit.

Ok, and anyone who has taken a decent college sociology class can tell you being goth means something is wrong with you. Not mentally, but you just can't function by societal norms. It's good to at least appear to function by the norms b/c you're gonna get way better pussy and make more cash if you're not a goth.

 

[Kalamos]

Austrailian Accent Chameleon: "Even in the midst of the most serious of arguments, the Kalamos has time to smile at something it deems humorous."
*quietly stepping closer tot he Kalamos...*
"Be very careful, disturbing the Rogue Drafter can be very dangerous!"

Oriya.
About the "homo-cide".
It was clearly involuntary, on Lohkthyte's part, but it ruins the serious mood a bit.

...

Anyway, I'm out of sympathy today.
I'll be around somewhere, trying to forget things.

 

[Senshi1]

I agree that dressing like a Goth will attract negative attention. The best way to function, I've found (I'm not a Goth myself, by the way) is to do what you like in the privacy of your own home - read what you like, dress how you like (I have clothes that I rarely ever wear out - on one occasion I was nearly sent home from work for it) - but when you're in public, just try to blend in. It may not be making a statement, but it sure makes for an easier life.

I just act the same as the people I'm around. At work I work and laugh at jokes etc, around friends I'm a lot more relaxed, at church I sip tea and nod my head a lot. When I'm at home, I can really relax and be myself, though, and that is even more satisfying than attracting negative attention for it in public.

Sorry if that didn't make much sense - I just wrote as I thought - but hopefully y'all will see my point.

 

[blackmagicjack1]

If you can accept the extremity of the goth look then you should be mature enough to accept the scrutiny which is placed upon it and the liability which is inherent therein.

In other words, stop bitching or change your choice of clothing or interests so you don't have to deal with it.

Accept and Like are two different words Vlad. And he was simply voicing his opinion, just as you're doing.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Accept and Like are two different words Vlad. And he was simply voicing his opinion, just as you're doing.

Sorry, but sometimes we must accept things we don't like. Thats a fact of life.

I'd refer you to Senshi's otherwise well put post above, or the gentleman who posted above him, mdizzle.

Some things aren't opinions, but tested and true facts of life and society. 'Goth', as it is in mainstream punk/pop culture (not as what it truely was) just happens to be one of those things that is irrefutable. It is clearly what it is because it presents itself so radically, obviously, and the behaviorial patterns are not as complex as a goth will often exagerate them to be.

What I'm saying is, like mdizzle, there is a socialogical/psychological drawback to being a goth in both terms of how people see you, and how you see yourself, and, subsequently, how you treat yourself.

Its as if goth means joining a club where depression, angst, and pain (mental and sometimes physical) are the tenets which members abide, and since they feel these things in their personal lives anyway, they figure its easier to embrace because of it and it makes it more real.

Anyone choosing to be goth that cannot handle the drawbacks of being one (even superficially in appearance alone), is subjecting themselves to self-inflicted wounds. For this reason, many goths are whiney and bitchy, musing and brooding over things without necessarily doing a damn thing to make them better or help themselves. Its as if they've given up and surrendered. They make themselves weaker as people and this is why people do not respect them, because they are pitiful.

The whole freakish ghoul thing is only, I'd say, about 25% of the problem to most people, since its nothing new and theres always going to be a group that wants to stand out, so society is already prepared for it.

 

[yami]

You're not confusing me in the slightest. I see right through you, figurtively speaking of course, so theres no need to make a joke about it.

"Umm... you can see through me? 0_0

Umm... crap? You can see my boxers? I think I need to walk away. The guy in the count getup is scaring me..." 😀

(Runs off)

(Then comes back, bringing observers 😉 )

If you're willing to admit that you're not willing to admit these things apply to you then thats good enough for me, because its just as well as admitting it. Whether or not you're too stubborn or proud to say so doesn't matter.

Yeah, sure. I can admit that I'm stubborn. Proud? I don't really think so. If I were proud, would I have admitted anything in the first place?

I'd say it does matter. It matters quite a lot. If it didn't matter, then why did I speak? There has to be meaning behind why I admitted, right?

It's called being submissive. Appeasin' a person so they might warm up. But hey, that didn't work. You're too engrossed in your own ranting, Vlad to even realize I was trying to make you a bit happy. Pssh... people are just too hard to please... <_<

If you can accept the extremity of the goth look then you should be mature enough to accept the scrutiny which is placed upon it and the liability which is inherent therein.

Umm... hello? Maturity? Gave up on that years ago. I think it kills creativity. I remember I said something...

Oh, yes. It went something like, "The day I act my age is when I die."

Maybe that's why you didn't understand? Am I too young for you, count? Well, I guess I am, considering that Vlad must've been 300 years old...

In other words, stop bitching or change your choice of clothing or interests so you don't have to deal with it.

My, my... so quick to anger... tsk tsk. And cursing, too. It looks like it was targeted at me...

From that, I can assume that you get your jollies out of this.

Now... what do you get your jollies from?

A) Picking on someone younger than you?
B) Arguing on and on to prove your point
C) Creating a lot of attention.

Personally, I don't like arguements. I like to laugh. I like to make other people laugh. That's what I do.

That's how I differ from other goths. I purposely try to be funny.

What I'm saying is, like mdizzle, there is a socialogical/psychological drawback to being a goth in both terms of how people see you, and how you see yourself, and, subsequently, how you treat yourself.

Sooo... are you saying cause I'm goth, I don't treat myself good? I'd say I do pretty good at it. I'm happy. Why? 'Cause, I'm healthy, I'm alive, and I enjoy life.

People may see me as the same as others, but that's not the case.

Would you say any other goth would've admitted to being stubborn?

Speaking of admissions, Vlad, are you too proud to admit I may be right? I mean, I just did admit to being stubborn. If you can't do the same... well, I think my hunches about you are right...

Anyone choosing to be goth that cannot handle the drawbacks of being one (even superficially in appearance alone), is subjecting themselves to self-inflicted wounds. For this reason, many goths are whiney and bitchy, musing and brooding over things without necessarily doing a damn thing to make them better or help themselves. Its as if they've given up and surrendered. They make themselves weaker as people and this is why people do not respect them, because they are pitiful.

The hell? Not every goth does that. Jeez, what is up with you and stereo-typing? I haven't given up or surrendered. Well, maybe I have in your opinion, but I'm still here and I want to see what the future has in store for me...

How can you say I'm a gloomy person when I'm laughing right now? And, as a plus, I'm making other guys laugh too?

Also... a little tip. If you're lovely morbid girlfriend ever gets into a fight with an equally morbid girl, run away. You seriously don't want to be dragged into one of those tussels. This is from personal experience... 😀

The whole freakish ghoul thing is only, I'd say, about 25% of the problem to most people, since its nothing new and theres always going to be a group that wants to stand out, so society is already prepared for it.

Well, I guess that must be what the mundane think... loverly... as if I didn't already take that to my advantage...

Science Teacher: "Why did you come to class late?"
Me: "Boo."
Science Teacher: "EEK!"

Ok, ok, enough with the joking. I don't think you have a real grasp behind the meaning of goth. If you want to do better to pursuade me, I think it's best if you try to sympathize with me.

Personally, I think you've had a bad experience with goths, Vlad. If not, maybe there's another problem. Is work hard? You can talk to me about it. People bugging you? Talk about it. PMs, whatever! Ya just gotta let it outta your system, IMO.

Actually, now that I think of it, you're anger out just by giving your opinion. Hey, that's cool. ^_^

I mean, I'm not that evil a person if I'm trying to be helpful, right? Oh, sure, I might've insulted you a bit (I was only kidding, eh?) But that's how friendships start... well, at least for me, anyways...

And I'm trying to be serious when I say this. I'm not trying to mock or anything. I really think you're angry, Vlad. Just let it out, eh? Better now than later, eh? Well, that's what I've learned.

Peace!

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I think you THINK you have me pegged 🙂 and that I'm angry and what not which is why you're dismissing everything or trying to explain it away. You're displaying classic symptoms of denial, and as a natural defensive mechanism you're trying to associate all that I have said (and to a lesser extend with ory has said) with me being angry, spiteful or having issues, either alone or because of goths when that couldn't be farther from the truth and you have nothing but assumptions to work with so you throw crap filled conjecture my way, because you've got nothing.

I on the other hand am citing actual truths about the community, state, and mindset of the majority of goths. These findings are documented by clinical psychologists, youth councelors, school councellors, ministers, friends and family, and people who are, to whatever extent, are a part of a goth's life.

This information is shared with the rest of the world through documentaries, informed reading, and other mediums, and all validate eachother and work together to present sound and reliable truths and facts about the goth subculture, what it is, what motivates it, and what causes youths to become a part of it.

Its actually quite not unlike the animal kingdom and researching the specifics of the who, what, why when, etc, of a particular animal or breed. In this instance, we're talking about humans (risky business because feelings get hurt), and more so than that, we're talking about something that is far beyond just YOU the individual, but the entire lot, manifestation of that lot, and how it thrives, what feeds it, and how pop culture and the music industry influence it.

Yes, indeed, it is not just my thinking, but the combined study of both professional and amateur knowledge and insight.

How can I put this.......we tend to know goths better than they know themselves. 🙂

Furthermore, you cite how you are not like the others, yet you are goth. You cite how you are none of the things that would qualify you as a goth, and you cite how you are of a completely different mentality and you cite that rather than looking at life with a dark point of view, you embrace it and love it and look forward to what it has to offer.

Just one question- are you really goth then? If anything, you've displayed how anti-goth you are. 🙂

 

[blackmagicjack1]

Sorry, but sometimes we must accept things we don't like. Thats a fact of life.

There are many things that we must accept that we don't like. That doesn't mean we just roll over or keep are mouths shut when we think something is wrong.

I took exception at you telling him to stop his bitching or get out of the lifestyle if he couldn't handle it. To you it's "bitching" , to him it's an organized disagreement *shrugs* If you don't want to be exposed to it, don't read or respond to these posts.

Adieu

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I can say the same thing to you. The door swings both ways, amigo. He wanted to make a murder topic into how the poor goths get picked on, so I indulged him. Just because it was not the warm, fuzzy, "I hear ya bro" sort of response he may have been hoping for (and possibly some sympathy) is not my problem. In fact, its only ever a problem when people are incapable of handing it.

And I will give him this- he is handling it very well thus far and at any time he has the ability to tell me he doesn't want this conversation anymore, and, being the gentleman that I am, I will stop.

How he's going to manage the thread thereafter is not my concern or anyone else's. People will either appriciate it enough for it's original purpose, or probably leave it alone in the hopes it dies. Thats usually how it goes here. So....you'll allow me a shrug too...........................*shrug*

 

[morgandee]

people seem to think that since they are something other people should not even have a right to just poke fun at it because it's all serious business, because people are so self righteous about themselves in any category that they demand total respect for a personality and you can't just demand respect from anything

because people aren't going to like you if you demand things from them

this is not about accepting when it comes to poking fun at something, big fucking middle class white boy deal, grow a spine and live with a few playful words thrown at you, especially if you're trying too hard to make yourself look or seem like something

if you want to rock some suburbs, go rock some suburbs and whine about how life did not provide you with a car and insurance at birth because you're not upper class, there are starving ethiopians out there who do not even have time to whine about trivial things and be goth or emo about it, and they cannot guarantee getting themselves mohawks to be "punk" like avril lavigne obviously is

this whole self-centered "LOOK AT ME" attitude of life is why i feel like killing people after looking at them through a sniper scope

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

poseur
n.

One who affects a particular attribute, attitude, or identity to impress or influence others.

pre·ten·tious
adj.

1. Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified.
2. Making or marked by an extravagant outward show; ostentatious.

pas·sive-ag·gres·sive
adj.

Of, relating to, or having a personality disorder characterized by habitual passive resistance to demands for adequate performance in occupational or social situations, as by procrastination, stubbornness, sullenness, and inefficiency.

If these things don't sum up 'goth', as it is today, then I don't know WTF does!

 

[MistressValerie1]

The "bitching" remark was out of line, Vlad. Please try to keep the hostility to a minimum. (No PM's about this post, please.)

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

As it was not derived from hostility (nor has any of this conversation on my part been), I disagree, as only I can know how I meant it. 🙂

I will however take what you've said into consideration, as, like I said in the beginning, I've got no beef with him. The ball is, and always has been, in his court. Its his thread and I respect that (as I also implied). If he continues along these lines however, so will I. 🙂