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University forces fat students to take fitness class to graduate

I'm sorry, but Lincoln is a state-related institution that is privately operated. As such, they make the rules, they make the decisions, and if you don't like it, then that's your problem.

You are also talking about a university that has less than 3,000 students. It's an Historically Black College, so inherently, the level of restrictions it aligns with as it pertains to student body selection is already setting an 'unfair' standard.

Also, the means of earning a degree from an institution are abstract; if the institution says you must fulfill certain requirements, you have to fulfill certain requirements. It is your choice to take your credits and attempt to transfer them someplace else.

Again, I believe the total student body for Lincoln is 2,500. It's essentially a private school. The sort of response this gets from the public sector is laughable; look at the institution, look at what it represents, and you understand exactly why administrators see this as viable.
 
They're not thinking clearly.
If the weight problem is bad enough then the exercise can have some nasty consequences (some people can't pace themselves properly and some instructors are, well, too pushy and thick).

If they have to make some mandatory rule up (to depress fat people even more, make them feel more worthless and probably cause them to eat even more as a result) then it should be HEALTHY FOOD. One thing I know through experience about university canteens in general is all they seem to have for lunch are beefburgers and chips 😉
 
I'm sorry, but Lincoln is a state-related institution that is privately operated. As such, they make the rules, they make the decisions, and if you don't like it, then that's your problem.

You are also talking about a university that has less than 3,000 students. It's an Historically Black College, so inherently, the level of restrictions it aligns with as it pertains to student body selection is already setting an 'unfair' standard.

Also, the means of earning a degree from an institution are abstract; if the institution says you must fulfill certain requirements, you have to fulfill certain requirements. It is your choice to take your credits and attempt to transfer them someplace else.

Again, I believe the total student body for Lincoln is 2,500. It's essentially a private school. The sort of response this gets from the public sector is laughable; look at the institution, look at what it represents, and you understand exactly why administrators see this as viable.

It's an interesting one. I personally believe in the rights of private institutions and feel badly that in this day and age even private institutions can't truly make their own rules. This extends to things I don't even believe in. I would support a country club's choice to deny my membership on the grounds that I'm jewish. One of those "don't believe in what you say but will defend your right to say it" things.

Issue here as I see it, is that these students already enrolled have paid a good deal in tuition, and although colleges alter their requirements constantly, this truly isn't predictable. They can take their credits and transfer, as you say, but that is a great burden.

I'm on your side in principle, but I think any currently enrolled student should be grandfathered out, as was suggested by some. As for new students, as long as the college makes their policy clear, I also support their right to do it, even though I don't like it at all (on the grounds that I think everybody should have to take the course). This is provided that the college truly is a private institution, I think there was some debate as to that fact?
 
It was a requirement for all students working on their Generals at the community college I attended to take some form of a fitness class.

I see nothing wrong with making a fitness class a requirement as long as it is a requirement of everyone. Learning about healthy nutrition and exercise is important to everyone, not just people who are overweight.

This.

I went to a state, 4 year college...and they required physical education credits.

Requirement for all = okay...

Requirement for a select few = the need to find a new administration.
 
It's an interesting one. I personally believe in the rights of private institutions and feel badly that in this day and age even private institutions can't truly make their own rules. This extends to things I don't even believe in. I would support a country club's choice to deny my membership on the grounds that I'm jewish. One of those "don't believe in what you say but will defend your right to say it" things.

Issue here as I see it, is that these students already enrolled have paid a good deal in tuition, and although colleges alter their requirements constantly, this truly isn't predictable. They can take their credits and transfer, as you say, but that is a great burden.

I'm on your side in principle, but I think any currently enrolled student should be grandfathered out, as was suggested by some. As for new students, as long as the college makes their policy clear, I also support their right to do it, even though I don't like it at all (on the grounds that I think everybody should have to take the course). This is provided that the college truly is a private institution, I think there was some debate as to that fact?

Lincoln gets state funds, but the state of Pennsylvania allows it to be run like a private institution. As it stands, they have exorbitant tuition in spite of having tax payer dollars go there. It's a school with less than 3,000 students, ranked 27th out of 81 HSBC, and the place has an endowment of 31 million dollars.

Penn State is another institution with this the state related label, as are a few others.

I'm for grandfathering upperclassmen, but at the same time, these situations with 'you need this class and this class to graduate' happen all the time. The university system in this country is built on this model, and it sucks for students because there is no recourse.

At the same time, a three credit hour fitness course isn't extreme, as more than likely, it's just placed into the 120 credit hour system, in the same line as required credit hours outside the major.
 
Lincoln gets state funds, but the state of Pennsylvania allows it to be run like a private institution. As it stands, they have exorbitant tuition in spite of having tax payer dollars go there. It's a school with less than 3,000 students, ranked 27th out of 81 HSBC, and the place has an endowment of 31 million dollars.

Penn State is another institution with this the state related label, as are a few others.

I'm for grandfathering upperclassmen, but at the same time, these situations with 'you need this class and this class to graduate' happen all the time. The university system in this country is built on this model, and it sucks for students because there is no recourse.

At the same time, a three credit hour fitness course isn't extreme, as more than likely, it's just placed into the 120 credit hour system, in the same line as required credit hours outside the major.

Good points... what's even more disturbing though is the amount of tax money spent on universities that are completely private via endowments.

For example, Harvard received $36 billion in federal endowments in 2008, despite the fact that their tuition has continued to rise and has always been well above what the average taxpayer could afford.

In short, we have a private collegiate education system that is just as full of corporate welfare as much of our banking is.
 
Lincoln gets state funds, but the state of Pennsylvania allows it to be run like a private institution. As it stands, they have exorbitant tuition in spite of having tax payer dollars go there. It's a school with less than 3,000 students, ranked 27th out of 81 HSBC, and the place has an endowment of 31 million dollars.

Penn State is another institution with this the state related label, as are a few others.

I'm for grandfathering upperclassmen, but at the same time, these situations with 'you need this class and this class to graduate' happen all the time. The university system in this country is built on this model, and it sucks for students because there is no recourse.

At the same time, a three credit hour fitness course isn't extreme, as more than likely, it's just placed into the 120 credit hour system, in the same line as required credit hours outside the major.

Yea, I know, and frankly this course sounds like a really easy GPA-boosting piece of shit. I think people whine too much.

That being said - considering I have to respect the right to whine if one of our great core "principles" or whatever is being technically violated - my only question would be is this really akin to the way other colleges change their academic requirements? The fact that it's required for a certain sub-sector of the population, and that it isn't academic, could give already-enrolled students the "right" to bitch. Personally, I wouldn't though.

I think Lyz was the one who brought up the fact that it would be outrageous if this class caused someone to have to take an extra semester or extra anything. That I agree with. If however, it's just placed into the credit system, and doesn't fuck with these students' major, it's just not something that I can get worked up about.

As for the whole drinking/smoking/promiscuity theory, I see where you all are coming from. However, isn't this a slippery slope in the right direction? If we can't punish/cure all unhealthy behavior, we shouldn't try to cure any? Again, I don't agree with this particular program, but I don't think the fact that other students engage in other unhealthy activities should preclude a school from trying to reduce one of them
 
As for the whole drinking/smoking/promiscuity theory, I see where you all are coming from. However, isn't this a slippery slope in the right direction? If we can't punish/cure all unhealthy behavior, we shouldn't try to cure any? Again, I don't agree with this particular program, but I don't think the fact that other students engage in other unhealthy activities should preclude a school from trying to reduce one of them

Oh, that's something I agree with to an extreme sentiment.

I'll cut through the BS before it even starts; I'm overweight. So, here goes:

Commentary of this being insensitive, or that overweight people are being discriminated against with this sort of behavior is completely and utterly asinine. There is a clear line of delineation in this country between those that can control their dietary health and those that cannot. As it stands, there is a cross section that believes that they shouldn't be looked at in such a locus, as if they deserve a universal recognition for their beauty, even if it is beneath layers of wanton fat.

This is a step in the right direction because, at the end of the day, it's actually an enforcement of personal accountability. It's not someone rationing off meals on a governmental level, and at the worst, this sort of class is going to give people a knowledge basis to make necessary changes in their habits. Part of the problem people have? They don't know where to start, what to do, how to change and what TO change.

The college lifestyle does add pounds, but no more than working a 40 hour a week job.

I think that the merits of a program such as this are far more useful, and that people need to stop complaining. As you stated Radiohead, that Lyz had a point, and that is a valid one indeed; in those situations, the institution is very likely to wave your credit needs so you can graduate on time though. At least that's what happened where I was. Not sure about Lincoln.
 
This.

I went to a state, 4 year college...and they required physical education credits.

Requirement for all = okay...

Requirement for a select few = the need to find a new administration.

need to find a new administration? i'll play devil's advocate. for some reason, i enjoy that role on this issue.

i had to take a statistics class in college that fuckin sucked. others didn't have to take it because they had taken something in high school that got them exempt.

Colleges make the call on what qualifications they want their graduates to go off into the real world (with a diploma that bears that college's name) with. If one of those qualifications is relative good health, why do people already in good health have to take it? They have the qualification. To make them take it actually seems more like the lame regimented structure of high school than college.

I'm still not for this program, and stand by my belief that nobody currently enrolled should have to do it, but I'm starting to think less and less that it should be required for everyone because it is discriminatory.
 
On the other hand, I believe a lot of other cultures seem to handle sensible conformities far better than us. For example, the French have much more respect for their bodies than we do. Their obesity rate is much lower, they eat healthier, and they exercise more. For them, a requirement such as this one would be considered self-evident in its rationality.

Even if they do, at the end of the day they're still French.
 
I have two points to make here. For my second point, I will state my view of the policy at Lincoln U. But preceding that, I'm going to call Mabus out for his remarks in his opening post.

Mabus: It's a fact of life that American political culture is about disagreement over what is the proper role of government, and within that disagreement, it is a fact of life that many, of the conservative or libertarian persuasion, view a lot of governmental policies as adding up to "the nanny state." But your reference to the nanny state implies that, rather than there being different visions of the proper role of government that people of intelligence can disagree on, there's simply your recognition that there's a "nanny state" and the folly of those who deny or defend it. Moreover, you're saying that, if people don't share your political opinions of the proper role of government, you can off-handedly ridicule them for deigning to have an opinion on the Lincoln University policy. This is not a sensible approach to any issue and you're seriously lowering yourself by taking it.

Now, to address the issue at hand: I teach college, and I can tell you that adding new graduation requirement, or new forms of scrutiny to students' private lives, in midstream is asking for lawsuits galore. The college catalog in print at the time students enter is a legally binding contract. But that's only part of it. Grandfathering the existing students and applying the rule to new students only solves part of the problem. The other part of the problem remains: Singling out a special group as having a special need for a special policy is bad news. Is it illegal? I'll leave that to the legal experts. But at best, it's a PR nightmare, and they're going about it the wrong way. Campuses can do loads to raise awareness of health issues on a voluntary basis. Adding a required course just isn't what's going to work. And I'm speaking as one who is all in favor of raising awareness among students concerning public health issues. I'm just saying, speaking as a higher education professional who is out there on the frontlines, that's not what going to work.
 
Oh, that's something I agree with to an extreme sentiment.

I'll cut through the BS before it even starts; I'm overweight. So, here goes:

Commentary of this being insensitive, or that overweight people are being discriminated against with this sort of behavior is completely and utterly asinine. There is a clear line of delineation in this country between those that can control their dietary health and those that cannot. As it stands, there is a cross section that believes that they shouldn't be looked at in such a locus, as if they deserve a universal recognition for their beauty, even if it is beneath layers of wanton fat.

This is a step in the right direction because, at the end of the day, it's actually an enforcement of personal accountability. It's not someone rationing off meals on a governmental level, and at the worst, this sort of class is going to give people a knowledge basis to make necessary changes in their habits. Part of the problem people have? They don't know where to start, what to do, how to change and what TO change.

The college lifestyle does add pounds, but no more than working a 40 hour a week job.

I think that the merits of a program such as this are far more useful, and that people need to stop complaining. As you stated Radiohead, that Lyz had a point, and that is a valid one indeed; in those situations, the institution is very likely to wave your credit needs so you can graduate on time though. At least that's what happened where I was. Not sure about Lincoln.

Most of your points are good, but it brings me to ask one question:

Since this benefits everyone, not just fat folks, why restrict it to them? I can only come up with one answer for that......it's easy to pick us out as living an alleged unhealthy lifestyle. As a few have mentioned (myself included) being overweight or obese is NOT always due to overeating; there are those with poor metabolisms (usually caused by excessive dieting), and those on certain medications who have problems that aren't easy to resolve. A forced fitness class only adds to their stress levels IMO.

A weight problem is easier to see than someone who binges/purges, aneorexic, smokers, drinkers, drug users, and the promiscuous. You can look at a fat person and at the very least assume there's a problem. The other health issues aren't always so obvious.

So, since it can benefit everyone across the board because one can never be too fit or too healthy, make it for everyone instead of singling out one group of people whose problems visibly show on the outside.

If they leave things as they are they're going to get slammed.
 
Most of your points are good, but it brings me to ask one question:

Since this benefits everyone, not just fat folks, why restrict it to them? I can only come up with one answer for that......it's easy to pick us out as living an alleged unhealthy lifestyle. As a few have mentioned (myself included) being overweight or obese is NOT always due to overeating; there are those with poor metabolisms (usually caused by excessive dieting), and those on certain medications who have problems that aren't easy to resolve. A forced fitness class only adds to their stress levels IMO.

A weight problem is easier to see than someone who binges/purges, aneorexic, smokers, drinkers, drug users, and the promiscuous. You can look at a fat person and at the very least assume there's a problem. The other health issues aren't always so obvious.

So, since it can benefit everyone across the board because one can never be too fit or too healthy, make it for everyone instead of singling out one group of people whose problems visibly show on the outside.

If they leave things as they are they're going to get slammed.

You jump to two different points with the assessment; the first bold actually brings up a discourse which alleviates blame from 'some' overweight people. I know where my fatness comes from; eating bullshit food and lack of arduous exercise. I know this because I eat too much too often, and at the end of the day, do very little to burn off calories. It has nothing to do with metabolism; mine is probably at normal levels. And medications and other complications? That's not an excuse. If stress levels are making it so you can't live a healthy lifestyle, you need to change medications or have something to deal with stress. And as part of that, eating a double cheeseburger from McDonalds is not going to help internal stress factors, especially as it increases your blood pressure.

The fact is, smokers are already being discriminated against, and it's significantly moreso than obese people in this country. Unless we are talking the minute few, obesity is just as much a choice as drinking or smoking cigarettes. But at the same time, there is a blow back from people who are obese because they feel upset because the standards of society make it so they can't succeed. Or that they can't get the man/woman of their dreams. Which is, in itself, usually some insanely arbitrary and equally facetious prospect. I don't know how many obese women have thrown down insane standards for what their man needs to look like, and the same goes the opposite way around. Or that the arbitrary 'personality' argument is valid.

Again, it's a private institution which already excludes those outside of the black community. I don't see how this is any more or less shocking.
 
Why is it so problematic that the program is discriminatory? This private institution wants its graduates to be healthy, and as a private institution, that is their right I suppose. Why on earth take a person who already is healthy (from the obesity standpoint - I think the drinking/cigarette/etc argument is very, very weak) and make them take this class, which would be at the expense of them taking a different class which would actually benefit them

If you go to a college that doesn't want you to be obese, and you are, you take a phys-ed class. If you're not, it would be a waste of time to impose that on you when you could be taking a great literature class, or whatever. I'm not saying being slim should be a qualification, but again, private institution. To me, making it universal seems absolutely silly. If you're going to make this part of your program, discriminate just as you discriminate against students who don't have enough knowledge of calculus, american literature, or chemistry.

As for lawsuits and PR nightmare, absolutely. We live in a country that, I think most would agree, can be absurdly litigious. Shouldn't we be arguing the inherent merits of the program as opposed to what the obvious backlash will be?

Re: "It's not going to work". First, how do we know that? But second and more importantly, so what? That's the institution's opinion, be it right or wrong.

Lastly, many have made the valid argument that many people who are obese are not obese because of an unhealthy lifestyle and therefore this class is not fair. I agree with that, but are we sure we have all the facts here? This is a highly, highly controversial program. I would have to guess that the college does not use BMI as the end-all be-all metric. Perhaps thyroid issues and the like could get you exempt. On this issue I have no idea, but I would be very skeptical that such a controversial policy would be instituted without a ton of research and qualifications...
 
I think the one sticking point was the one brought up earlier about this requirement popping up in the middle of many students' curriculums.

I doubt that one class would really have that much of an effect on what classes seniors and juniors could pick in their final semesters, but assuming they do make this class one that isn't offered flexibly, it could become quite an obstacle for some students.
 
You jump to two different points with the assessment; the first bold actually brings up a discourse which alleviates blame from 'some' overweight people. I know where my fatness comes from; eating bullshit food and lack of arduous exercise. I know this because I eat too much too often, and at the end of the day, do very little to burn off calories. It has nothing to do with metabolism; mine is probably at normal levels. And medications and other complications? That's not an excuse. If stress levels are making it so you can't live a healthy lifestyle, you need to change medications or have something to deal with stress. And as part of that, eating a double cheeseburger from McDonalds is not going to help internal stress factors, especially as it increases your blood pressure.

The fact is, smokers are already being discriminated against, and it's significantly moreso than obese people in this country. Unless we are talking the minute few, obesity is just as much a choice as drinking or smoking cigarettes. But at the same time, there is a blow back from people who are obese because they feel upset because the standards of society make it so they can't succeed. Or that they can't get the man/woman of their dreams. Which is, in itself, usually some insanely arbitrary and equally facetious prospect. I don't know how many obese women have thrown down insane standards for what their man needs to look like, and the same goes the opposite way around. Or that the arbitrary 'personality' argument is valid.

Again, it's a private institution which already excludes those outside of the black community. I don't see how this is any more or less shocking.

:iagree: :toast: Truth. I like this post 🙂 Your honesty is very refreshing, Meangry.
 
You jump to two different points with the assessment; the first bold actually brings up a discourse which alleviates blame from 'some' overweight people. I know where my fatness comes from; eating bullshit food and lack of arduous exercise. I know this because I eat too much too often, and at the end of the day, do very little to burn off calories. It has nothing to do with metabolism; mine is probably at normal levels. And medications and other complications? That's not an excuse. If stress levels are making it so you can't live a healthy lifestyle, you need to change medications or have something to deal with stress. And as part of that, eating a double cheeseburger from McDonalds is not going to help internal stress factors, especially as it increases your blood pressure.

The fact is, smokers are already being discriminated against, and it's significantly moreso than obese people in this country. Unless we are talking the minute few, obesity is just as much a choice as drinking or smoking cigarettes. But at the same time, there is a blow back from people who are obese because they feel upset because the standards of society make it so they can't succeed. Or that they can't get the man/woman of their dreams. Which is, in itself, usually some insanely arbitrary and equally facetious prospect. I don't know how many obese women have thrown down insane standards for what their man needs to look like, and the same goes the opposite way around. Or that the arbitrary 'personality' argument is valid.

Again, it's a private institution which already excludes those outside of the black community. I don't see how this is any more or less shocking.

Looks like we're going to do the agree to disagree here; what I bolded explains why. Medications are not "excuses", they are legitimate issues of life and I can only tell you to be glad that you don't have to endure it yourself.

My son had no choices when his doctors changed his meds EIGHT times within less than a year. He is autistic and mentally ill; medication is a necessary evil in his life. He goes to the gym four times a week and still struggles with his weight because most medications that help him with mood disorders and OCD are not weight friendly. So what should he do then? Go without the meds is NOT an option; he must be capable of functioning in society. So now he has to do it in a bigger body. It's okay to pass judgement on yourself, but not okay to pass a broad brush judgement on people you don't know; everyone's life experience should not be reduced to "excuse."

I all but killed my metabolism in my younger days by excessive dieting (my feeble attempt to keep up with societal standards). At the end of the day, certainly I can benefit from excercise and some diet changes, but if I were forced to do it, I can guarantee you that it would not work for me and I'd fight it tooth and nail! For me, it's the principle behind all of this; many in college live unhealthy lifestyles. It's the larger folks being singled out because it's easy to do so; it's the lazy man's way out IMO.

And although I don't smoke, I have never appreciated smokers being singled out. The taxes on cigarettes fund a lot of public projects they don't even get to smoke in. Why tax the hell out of them and they don't even get the choice to benefit from it? It's just an easy target for the masses to benefit from IMO. I know people well into their eighties who smoke and people who've died much younger who never did. Does smoking kill? Sure, sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. Just another group other groups can harrass and make money off of; just like they do with the larger people.

This entire situation makes me glad I left traditional college and chose business school where they teach you what you absolutely need to know instead of this "well rounded education" horse crap! And it's not shocking.....it's just stupid on the part of administration to do this. It wouldn't surprise me that they're getting some sort of financial benefit from it; no one does anything out of the goodness of their hearts anymore.

Bottom line is this......either make it across the board, get rid of the class, or deal with the ensuing legal consequences.
 
Why on earth take a person who already is healthy (from the obesity standpoint - I think the drinking/cigarette/etc argument is very, very weak) and make them take this class, which would be at the expense of them taking a different class which would actually benefit them.

Just because a person is thin doesn't mean a class on fitness and nutrition wouldn't benefit them. It also doesn't mean they're healthy either.

My brother is lean and fairly active, more so than me, but he also eats way more junk food and larger portions of food than I do. Learning about proper nutrition could be beneficial to him in the long run. Getting the exercise but still overeating doesn't make one healthy.

I'm fat and I'm working on losing the excess pounds for health reasons but it's not easy.

A class on fitness and nutrition can benefit everyone. If you want a healthy class to graduate from your school, then make it for everyone. Learning to be healthy is beneficial to everyone, not just fat people.
 
A class on fitness and nutrition can benefit everyone. If you want a healthy class to graduate from your school, then make it for everyone. Learning to be healthy is beneficial to everyone, not just fat people.

Agreed. Singling out could really fuck up a person's image of themself, even if the school is attempting to "help" alter that feeling.
 
Why is it so problematic that the program is discriminatory? This private institution wants its graduates to be healthy, and as a private institution, that is their right I suppose. Why on earth take a person who already is healthy (from the obesity standpoint - I think the drinking/cigarette/etc argument is very, very weak) and make them take this class, which would be at the expense of them taking a different class which would actually benefit them

It is a private institution which means it can make whatever rules it likes. Doesn't mean people have to agree with it nor like it. It also doesn't mean that just because we can't do anything about it that we should just shut up about it.

I'm glad you cleared things up. It's perfectly okay to make fat people take a class on fitness at the expense of them taking a different one to complete their degree. Based on the fact they are fat. But it's not okay to do the same for someone who is thin but eats like shit.
 
If they're going to mandate the class, then everyone should have to take it. Those already enrolled should be exempt.

As for the big picture, the downsizing or outright elimination of Phys. Ed. at schools is a horrible idea, given the level of unhealthiness in this country. Given some the *crap* that is offered at colleges these days, phys. ed. should at least be an option, and some form of fitness/health class should be required of everyone.
 
:shrug: Im a fat ass and willingly took weight training and conditioning, as well as worked out on my own

Ofcourse the issue I have with all this is, how do you determine "overweight" since BMI is flawed

I don't see what it will achieve since 1 semester wont do squat
 
You lady, are my new best friend!:wub:

There are many things that come into play where obesity is concerned and not all of them are from overeating. My son gained nearly 100 lbs because his doctors were treating him like a lab rat giving antidepressents and mood managers like passing candy. I watched him blow up before my eyes and he was just miserable. The autism and mental health issues only made matters worse; first he's ostracized for being autistic and then caught hell for getting fat. Let's just say he doesn't miss a thing about high school......:banghead:

Besties 4evah! :woot2: lol

Oh God, what your son went through sounds exactly like the shit my mom had to deal with. There are way too many incompetent doctors in this country. :doh:
 
Just because a person is thin doesn't mean a class on fitness and nutrition wouldn't benefit them. It also doesn't mean they're healthy either.

My brother is lean and fairly active, more so than me, but he also eats way more junk food and larger portions of food than I do. Learning about proper nutrition could be beneficial to him in the long run. Getting the exercise but still overeating doesn't make one healthy.

I'm fat and I'm working on losing the excess pounds for health reasons but it's not easy.

A class on fitness and nutrition can benefit everyone. If you want a healthy class to graduate from your school, then make it for everyone. Learning to be healthy is beneficial to everyone, not just fat people.

:bow::bow::clap::clap:

Well said.
 
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