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Video Game Emulation: Right or wrong?

Ticklekiller1

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Hey. I've been into emulation for over 2 years now and I thoroughly enjoy playing old Atari, NES, S-NES and arcade games on my PC as do many others but, I want more opinions of what other video gaming enthusiests think about this. For those who don't know, an emulator is a program designed to imitate a video game console or arcade machine thus allowing one to play games in ROM or ISO format on a PC. The ROM is the actual game data copied from the game cartridge or arcade motherboard into a PC while ISOs are CD game data. I myself prefer "obsolete emulation" (emulation of outdated software) as aposed to standard emulation which is open to everything, including current retail software. This is where I draw the line. Though I'm guilty of owning and playing some retail ROMs I am dead set against the mass distribution of them through websites, groups, forums or any other means. This kind of activity will only ruin the gaming industry and set us all up for another crash like the one that happened in '84. Well, what are your opinions on this?
 
It all depends. If we're talking about Atari, NES, and the whatnot, I think it's a great nostalgia trip, and there's no real harm being commited. Mostly due to the fact that so many of those games are out of circulation, you can't find them anywhere unless they're used, and those companies make no money off of that.

But when it gets to using programs such as IRC to score ISOs and Cue files to PS2, XBox, GC, and PC games, that's where the line should be drawn. Major companies are losing big bucks and it's ashame.

/videogame nerd rant
 
I wouldn't say ALL emulations were "outdated" because i got a gameboy advance emulator as well as snes and nintendo!
 
I think there is a pretty clear line to be drawn but it isn't between "okay" and "wrong" it's between "wrong" and "not quite as wrong". 😛
I don't have much moral dilema with keeping an SNES emulator on my computer. I bugged my hubby for years to get me a used SNES system and some games. It's not expensive per se but it would be a bit of an investment, plus more clutter in our tiny house. When I found out how I could download an emulator plus the few games I had as a kid I thought it was an awesome alternative.
My reasoning is that I owned these games already. I don't know what happened to my old video game stuff...probably given away, broken, or lost over the years. But I did buy them and at one point or another the good people at Nintendo were paid for what I am playing. 😛
Not that I follow this rule all the time. I've downloaded many dozen CDs worth of programs, music, videos, movies, etc. 😛 It's not as if the entertainment business is going bankrupt over my lost contribution cause I almost NEVER buy CDs and I still buy on DVDs or videos the same amount I ever did. I have the choice of either downloading programs or not having any at all cause I can't afford discount value games much less a $500 graphics program. I think it's pretty nuts that Adobe charges so much for making a copy of a CD for me.
Immoral? Yeah...I'll admit that. I'm a bad, rotten person. I dont think it's a crime on par with robbing a store at gunpoint and stealing the physical goods though.
It's a moral question people have to answer for themselves I think. I knew a woman who agonized over a book of reproducable worksheets she bought for her kid. Could she give it to someone else or was the right to reproduce the worksheets limited to her, the original purchaser? I couldnt imagine that question even occuring to me. lol
 
On a related note (I sorta strayed before) I think having an SNES emulator kicks ass! I downloaded my favorite old games (Mario World, Mario Paint, Zelda, Mario All Stars), bought an ultra cheap $15 USB game pad, and spent many fine hours feeling nostalgic.
I've had a hard time getting into playing my N64 and I never moved up to the current generation of systems cause I just enjoy the old games more. It seemed that any game I got for the N64 that wasn't a sports game was just walking around a 3D world looking at the back of your own head. They all looked the same. Zelda just wasn't Zelda to me. It was Mario 3D with Link instead of Mario. 😛 I guess I'm just old fashioned. Does anyone even make side scrolling 2D games anymore??
Mario World is my favorite video game of all time...I guess I'm not to current am I? 😀
 
Budweiserbob! said:
I wouldn't say ALL emulations were "outdated" because i got a gameboy advance emulator as well as snes and nintendo!


Naw, man. I didn't mean that the emulation itself was outdated, just the discontinued hardware/software that they're based on. I consider myself an obsolete emuist as aposed to what a full blown emu pirate would be. For those dudes/dudettes even production games and systems aren't safe. I heard that that's one of the reasons that Sega stopped production of the Dreamcast is because a lot of pirates learned how to rip and burn the games. I don't know if that's true or not but, since DC games are no longer in production I have no problem with them being ripped and burned. I have a few DC burns myself as well as PSX and TG16.

Ness, I agree... Most of the cool stuff was in 2d. Well atleast games like the Street Fighter series have managed to stay popular with 2d but everything else does seem to be going 3d these days even Mega Man and Metroid. That's going to be a bit hard to get used to but, as long as the graphics and play control stay sharp I think I'll be okay.
 
Just for kicks I decided today to try an n64 emulator.I must not have the computer to handle it cause the sound I got was VEEERY choppy through several games and several different emulators. Ah well. 😛
Inspired toplay somethingthough I went back and played Mario Allstars on my SNES emulator and guess what?!
I beat Mario Brothers!!
HAHAHAHA the game that plagues my with it's last two levels since I was 9 years old finally crumbled before me! *maniacal laughter*
LOL God I'm so sad. Seriously the only games I've ever beat were Zelda Link to the Past, Mario Brothers 2 and 3, Mario World, and now Mario Brothers 1. Aren't I just pathetic?
Well....I got up to like level 25 on Duck Hunt(without missing)...does that count? Oh and sports games...

/me wallows in the fragments of her momentary happiness
 
I think any redistribution of any material without royalities being paid to the owner(s) or creators of said material is morally wrong, but ok with exceptions.

I would be ok with the distribution of old school systems and games which no one can attain in physical form any longer or without a great search or expense. Even then, you are not guranteed an unopened package.

I myself own a Sega CD, but I bought it shortly before it was discontinued. I only have several games and there are more I would have wanted. While I collected the ones I wanted most while the games were still available, my collection doesn't feel nearly as complete as it could be.

Now, since I have purchased the system and have purchased games for the system, I would not consider using an emulator wrong, as I have paid dividends to Sega of America Inc., and Sega of Japan Inc. This includes the staff, the programmers, the artists, etc. I have paid my dues to them and was a loyal customer of Sega. This would be an exception I would personally make, as I do not feel it is a moral issue for me. I don't have any emulators though and don't plan to. I'm sort of falling out of video games anyway. They don't amuse me nearly as much as they used to.

What would be illegal and immoral would be for me to go willy-nilly and download entire systems' worth of games I never intended to purchase. Thats wrong in the sense of the word. 'Wrong' means different things to different people, but strictly from a technical standpoint it is wrong no matter how you slice it.

This goes for music cds, and pretty much everything you could think of.

Some people don't see this as wrong because theres no physicality to it at all. Its all virtual and that creates a false sense of well-being, clean hands, proper activity, and clean consciences. Its still wrong then, and I suspect many people think twice before they do this, its their conscience talking. After doing this for some time though I'd imagine some people wouldn't care, as theres no one to stop them, and clearly no reprocussions as there would be in reality. If you steal and get caught in a store, something happens to you. Here, nothing, unless you are being watched by the online authorities (those that are watched are primarily the distributors, as cutting them off cuts everyone else off as well).

Another technicality- video rental stores.

Believe it or not, but what they are doing is somewhat illegal as well but is justified through a legal loophole. While the movie or game gets it's name out there faster as people rent it, the profits go to sustain the business, not the owners and creators. Its almost like pimping a video game or movie. You're putting it out there for people to rent. No one benefits from this transaction but the store and like a pimp, the store will come after you if you don't pay up or your rented material is overdo. They have no right to do this to begin with morally, but legally they can.

Heres one way I look at it personally-

I love the Corrs. Absolutely love them. I have all their cds, and their music videos.

Now, if I were to download complete songs without intentions of purchasing their album, I'd feel like I was stealing directly from Andrea, Caroline, Sharon, Jim, and even their lead guitarists Andrew and Keith, and everyone that plays a part in making the Corrs happen.

This would be a personal foul for me.

Now, if I was merely downloading a short sample of the song because I wanted to know whether it was worth it or not (and it is) then its ok. Its ok because I am a fan, and I am a contributor to them and their music. In a very small way, I put food in their mouths and clothes on their back....their sexy...beautiful....all natural backs... I'm not shortchanging them then by downloading a sample song legitimately for the legitimate reason and intention of making a purchase if I'm impressed. Its legitimate for retail stores to provide samples, as well as some websites so long as they working within the law in doing so.

Though, in my case, I buy everything of theirs without the need to sample it. So this hypothetical situation wouldn't apply to me. :happy:

Sites get closed because of this (illegal distribution that is), no matter what they are hand-pandling around. So its definitely illegal. That much is clear. Whether it is a moral issue is up to the individual and their particular circumstance. Though I'm guessing most people don't care as this is an ungoing problem with no end in sight.
 
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nessonite said:
I have the choice of either downloading programs or not having any at all cause I can't afford discount value games much less a $500 graphics program. I think it's pretty nuts that Adobe charges so much for making a copy of a CD for me.

Hint: Paint Shop Pro... 😉


By the way, N64 emulation scene used to produce nothing as comprehensive or definitive as - say - PSX scene [eg EPSXE and later PSXEven].

Unless they made up something groundbreaking in the last year, most emulators specialize in a few well known games - and have higher systems reqs, and sometimes subpar performance.


Dreamcast emulation is still in its infancy - AFAIK - and no complete emulator is available, yet.


SNES scene, on the other hand, is quite mature - and due to its semi-abandonware status, it allowed western players to know otherwise obscure series.

Thanks to fan translation I could know the Front Mission saga - virtually unknown outside Japan up to Front Mission 3.


Now, morals... Tough call: I am European, and I have my gripes about considering immoral to copy a CD - and perfectly safe about bombing a country or shooting a burglar. 😉

Legal and illegal are a thing; moral and immoral are another matter altogether. No amount of explanation will convince everybody, and put all crimes on the same level.

We used to tell a joke about illegal mp3 sharing: "Well, since mp3 sharing is so bad [5 years sentence], I think I'll rob a shop and with the money, buy the original CDs instead...". 😉

This reminds me: this argument got pretty heated on TMF - and we had some discussions here on TT as well.

I'm glad to see nobody changed their opinion by even a single inch. 🙂


Reg's.
 
I honestly wouldn't worry about it. These companies like Microsoft and Nintendo are getting money from so many other avenues other than game sales that the emulater wrecking the industry rap is a total load. Besides, the day we feel sorry for a major corporation is sad state of affairs. "Oh no! Bill Gates ain't getting his $44.95!" Big whoop.

Back to the music scenario, I remember when record companies were screaming bloody murder over blank tape distribution. Now it's CD burners. Granted the record industry has taken a lump or two in recent years but it sure as shoot ain't from piracy. It's from signing crap bands like Nickelback.
 
I don't have any real objection to video game system emulators and roms. I do agree that they can be very cool in that you can play some old classics that are not available anywhere anymore. I thought I'd give everyone easy access to the current versions of three of the most popular emulators. ZSNES is a Super Nintendo emulator, Gens is a Sega Genesis and Sega CD and 32X emulator, and Jnes is a Nintendo emulator. I have only uploaded the emulators (no roms). You'll have to get roms on your own. Here's the instructions (HJ-Split is included in Part 3.zip).

1) Download all three zip files and extract them to the same location on your computer

2) Open the HJ-Split file and click on Join

3) Click on Input File and browse to the location where you extracted the zip files

4) Open the .001 file and click Start to put the file together

Oh by the way, ZSNES' website is http://www.zsnes.com
Gens' website is http://gens.consolemul.com
Jnes' website is http://www.jabosoft.com/jnes
 
Same here... So far everyone seems to have a good outlook on this. I was a bit nervous that when I started this thread that it may turn into a emulation vs copyright tug of war but, much to my pleasure I'm seeing a lot of nuetral conversation which demonstrates mature points of view unlike what you see on most gaming forums where everyone wants to argue what system is the best and what is and isn't legal and all of the made-up rules like "you must delete this rom within 24 hours, blah, blah, blah..." I too feel that I've payed a pretty penny to enough gaming companies over the years that I should have a right to download free, discontinued games, especially the ones they cheated us out of by giving a taste of games like Ys and Macross but not porting over the sequels to the US systems. I'm with Kalamos-thank goodness for fan translations! Now we can play the Final Fantasy series the way it was meant to be not to mention many other great games. Emulation is a grand thing and without ZSNES, Magic Engine, EPSXE, MAME, FCEU and a great many more emus, we would all still be plugging/unplugging tangles of wires, flipping switches, blowing dust out of cartridges and generally getting fed up with it all. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Long live free emulation!!

-TK
 
I was actually gonna start an emulation thread, but first decided to search for one just in case...here it was! So I'm gonna dig it up. I hope that doesn't bother anyone, and if it does.......screw you. I'm not neutral at all, I believe if I can get anything for free, I will. I take advantage of all opportunities presented to me. I don't give a damn about companies, because emulation isn't going to be the downfall of some company like Nintendo, their own stupidity will. "Oh, we don't think online gaming is important to our customers". After reading that sentence, the sound of a toilet flushing came to mind.. Anyway, if anybody wants, you can hit me up on AIM because I have pretty much any kind of ROMs you could possibly want short of PS2/X-BOX/Gamecube.....I have......what do I have....okay, here:
NES
SNES
Genesis
Sega CD
Gameboy/Gameboy Color
Gameboy Advance
Playstation (YES I HAVE PLAYSTATION ISOS!! but not that many.)
Arcade
CPS-1
CPS-2
Neo Geo
no, unfortunately I don't have 3D0. I know, that must suck because you don't get to play all of those terrible games they made!

How perfect am I? A girl who likes tickling, and video games....and I can cook!
 
SheDevil said:
How perfect am I? A girl who likes tickling, and video games....and I can cook!


Well... you live in the States... I wouldn't call *THAT* perfect. 😉

Back to topic: have you ever tried anything from the Front Mission saga?
 
nessonite said:
Hey I had a 3DO and at the time it kicked ass!!
.......you LIKED 3DO? You...liked....3DO? Wait a minute. YOU LIKED 3DO!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Ow my head hurts from trying to imagine that :wooha:

Who cares if I live in states, I don't count myself as one of the "fat stupid americans". I'm from Puerto Rico! Literally, I was born there... 😀
 
to be totally honest, i love emulation. i have dozens of games from sega genesis, SNES, PSX, PS2, XBOX, etc. and i don't really care weather it's right or wrong. i mean it's not illegal to where i'll get arrested, so why not get some things free while business men get fat and whine cause they lost some points on the stock market?
 
You have to understand, SheDevil...When 3DO came out I think I was 13 and it was quite a leap from SNES to 3DO. I think I got it when it was brandy new cause it cost like $400. Are you telling me you didnt like the board game with the little Pez dispenser guy?? What was his name..Uncle Fez? I LOVED that!!
 
I don't think any of the stores around here even sold a 3DO. Lol. Besides, I remember those games getting terrible reviews....but hey, who am I to judge. I got that new mortal kombat, and I loooooooove seeing people get impaled on a spike, or get their heads bitten off!
 
I just bought what I guess is the Mortal Kombat the new one replaced. I wanted a fighting game and I could pay $50 for the new one or $18 for this. Tough choice....
 
i emulate all sorts of games, even new ones. i'm a gameboy womon (a "game womon," um, maybe) and i actually have the hardware that will let me play the games on my actual gameboy and gameboy player. and then of course there are lots of emulators of other consoles like the nes that run ON gameboy software...um, sinister chuckle?

i actually prefer not to support nintendo, as they're guilty of a number of unjust trade practices. games bought from stores are typically marked up at least twice, too, so little of the money the consumer pays is actually going to people who labored over the creation of the game.

arr. i be a software pirate, um, matey. i actually have a three-dee-oh that i purchased for one game and am looking to get rid of. if anyone's interested i'm, um, interested in no longer owning it. hooray!
 
Emulation is actually quite legal, so long as you own "hard copies" of all of the games you download. You are entitled to retain one copy of any software you own for archival purposes... and the emulators themselves are the intellectual property of their respective programmers, so long as they aren't reverse-engineered from the original equipment. The mass distribution of ROMS is, of course, a different story.


I don't think most companies are terribly concerned about emulation. NES, Genesis, SNES and the like are all dead systems anyway and, with a few notable exceptions such as the GBA, emulators of newer systems are just not all that great.


I love my SNES and NES emulators. Ogre Battle, Mega Man X, GI Joe and GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor... So many cool old games. 😀
 
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