Water boarding's for pussies

[ftmench]

I agree.

 

[Rox_My_Sox1]

Yeah. Let's resort to the same tactics our worst enemies use against their own people. After all, it works for them doesn't it? Who cares if we're supposed to be BETTER THAN THEM? To heck with the slippery slope! If it works it must be right! Torture for all!

(no offense meant to ftmench)

 

[CrazyLikeAFox]

We're better than them? How grand! Nothing takes the sting out of meaningless death at the hands of religious extremists like intrinsic superiority.

(No offense meant to Rox My Sox)

 

[QueenBeeBeeMari]

Wow,what a guy.Rox is right we are supposed to be better then them but the question I have to ask her now is:What should we do then?

 

[The_Crusader]

I agree with all of you to a point. Perhaps General Pershing took things to a bit of an extreme but yes, it DID work. He made the enemy FEAR him. And as it has been said, fear is the best motivator. I do not condone the usage of acts of extreme brutality (see the movie Taken for some decent references) BUT, I do not consider what has been done by the CIA as torture. Water boarding? Blaring loud music? Sleep deprevation? Come on. Breaking every bone in the human body one by one with a small hammer is torture. Not blaring eminem at ridiculous volumes for an hour or two. And as to what Rox said, we do not resort to the tactics our enemies use. If you can name me the last time american soldiers sawed some poor bastards head off live on video I'll happily recant that statement. And think back to world war 2 even, the japanese used far FAR worse methods of interrogation. And yes, I'll admit the OSA and MI13 were responsible for some pretty graphic stuff too. But consider this, would you rather just have us ask the bad guys politely to tell us what their plans are? over a nice cup of tea perhaps? I think not. My point goes back to what I said about fear, make your enemies fear you, and you will be left alone. Nobody would oppose Hitler at the outset of ww2 (and before anybody says ANYTHING, I am NOT suggesting the mass genocide of 12 million people, nor am I implying our government and the Nazi party are one in the same) I am saying, nobody opposed the germans because Europe FEARED them. And yes, tactics such as these may make a few people round the world raise questionable glances at America, but didn't Machiavelli ask the age old question? Would you have the people love you rather then fear you? Just think about it everybody. I'm not tryin to stir up a huge argument or anything btw, I just found this an interesting topic an I wanted to voice my opinion.

 

[QueenBeeBeeMari]

Well,I don't want anyone to fear me lol,I do want them to love me.I wish it was as simple as if you love us you won't hurt us and tell us what your plans are.There is such a thing a tough love though and when diplomacy won't work you do have to get tough so,we have to come up with a rational plan of action now.I don't know what that is because I am not a military expert and so anything I come up with will likely fail.

 

[maniactickler38]

Im a staunch supporter of torture. :coolthumbup

 

[kopfhorer1]

Blaring loud music? Sleep deprevation?

Torture? Sounds more like college to me! 🙂

...but didn't Machiavelli ask the age old question? Would you have the people love you rather then fear you? Just think about it everybody.

Depends. Most people I'd rather have love me, some I'd rather have fear me just to keep them off my back. In other words, I'm pretty much like everybody else. Up yours, Mr. Machiavelli!

As for the article about General Pershing, where'd it come from? I'd think that executing Muslims by that means would result in massive retaliation by likeminded muslims, yet the article says there was no such activity for 50 years. Where'd those facts come from?

 

[The_Crusader]

As to that I couldn't say honestly. I haven't the slightest idea. But as to the fear an love thing, The Prince was written for Lorenzo Medici as basically the dictators handbook. But Machiavelli suggests fear and love in equal measure. Start out harsh, make examples of those who oppose you, and gradually work your way into the peoples hearts. Eventually the goal was to get them thinking "he's tough but he's fair"

 

[kopfhorer1]

As to that I couldn't say honestly. I haven't the slightest idea. But as to the fear an love thing, The Prince was written for Lorenzo Medici as basically the dictators handbook. But Machiavelli suggests fear and love in equal measure. Start out harsh, make examples of those who oppose you, and gradually work your way into the peoples hearts. Eventually the goal was to get them thinking "he's tough but he's fair"

From Machiavelli to Mussolini...

 

[The_Crusader]

Now that's not a fair comparison, mussolini was the father of fascism, and was responsible for deplorable acts. Hence, the italian people hung him in the town square and had him drawn and quartered. For those who don't know, being drawn and quartered is when the cut you open, pull your guts out, then have horses pull you into 4 pieces. Machiavelli was just...kind of a douche. But we all also have to remember he wrote The Prince back in...1472? I think? I'd have to look it up to find the exact date. And the world has changed since then.

 

[Journia]

People, comeo n, it's an urban legend!

 

[kopfhorer1]

Now that's not a fair comparison, mussolini was the father of fascism, and was responsible for deplorable acts. Hence, the italian people hung him in the town square and had him drawn and quartered. For those who don't know, being drawn and quartered is when the cut you open, pull your guts out, then have horses pull you into 4 pieces. Machiavelli was just...kind of a douche. But we all also have to remember he wrote The Prince back in...1472? I think? I'd have to look it up to find the exact date. And the world has changed since then.

It sure has. It's become more well, Machiavellian. In some ways, things are worse than when Mussolini and his fun-loving crew were running affairs. Demogogues like Glenn Beck are more popular than ever. A lot of people are dumber and meaner. They've been convinced that a bunch of urban intellectuals with more than two brain cells to rub together are trying to impose socialism on them and force their daughters to have abortions (and they aren't even pregnant fercryinoutloud! 🙂 ).

And yes, that thing about general Pershing does smell a lot to me like an urban legend. Though they did name a missile after him.

 

[The_Crusader]

Really? Dude I want a missile named after me. And a gold toilet lol. But you do present several good points.

 

[ftmench]

It sure has. It's become more well, Machiavellian. In some ways, things are worse than when Mussolini and his fun-loving crew were running affairs. Demogogues like Glenn Beck are more popular than ever. A lot of people are dumber and meaner. They've been convinced that a bunch of urban intellectuals with more than two brain cells to rub together are trying to impose socialism on them and force their daughters to have abortions (and they aren't even pregnant fercryinoutloud! 🙂 ).

And yes, that thing about general Pershing does smell a lot to me like an urban legend. Though they did name a missile after him.

They are not trying to impose socialism on America...no...communism, slow but sure. You probably don't even know Beck but through what left wing idiots say about him.

 

[Violetta]

Hurr hurr hurr hurr hurr politics hurr hurr hurr hurr hurr hurr.

Durr.