Whaddya think?

[rajee]

I improved the face of the woman. The url is rajee15.tripod.com
P.S. Cartooning is my forte, but I am trying to add to my drawing styles so please be patient.

Artists do not create for the masses they create for themselves. You can not please everyone all the time.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

How much time did you spend drawing this picture?

And do you mean having an image show up in your signature?

 

[amk714]

Got a "Page cannot be found" and a bunch of pop-ups. 🙁

 

[Spiderdude22000]

Same here I got no picture and lots of pop ups. That stinks.

 

[rajee]

My reply to the masses

I spent 15 minutes drawing that picture. Why should it matter to you? I want to put a picture with my username after my posts.

 

[zigster]

Celtic Emporer

Ok Celtic Emporer...someone needs to do this and since I'm a professional artist...its gonna be me. I'm officially critiquing your "work".

Lets see...uses manga style(I'm basing this critique on what you have shown in your club.) which is fairly popular and has a fairly
good understanding of it. However, he needs to work on anatomy. Drawings lack consistent anatomical features (You can draw something out of anatomical bounds, as in anime & manga, but it must be consistent throughtout the picture or it doesn't work.)This is evident in the incorrect lining up of various body parts giving the viewer the impression, for example, that some of the characters have broken necks or are triple jointed.

The characters, while having flaws are still fairly good, but are extremely static bringing very little "life" to the image. A drawing is analogous to the very BEST photograph taken from a series of photographs. You want the high point..not the low point. If I draw Batman punching someone I want the connection...not the wind up. A picture must convey dynamism. It does not have the luxery of TV.

Some pieces are better than others, but the artist has either very little practice or has not mastered many fundamentals of drawing. This tends to come from self teaching with no specific direction
and leads to drawings with numerous flaws in rudementary areas such
as basic shapes or the application of them to larger images.

Overall, Celtic Emporer your a fair artist who could stand to go back to basics and master simple drawing techniques to improve your more complex work. This is a problem many amatuer and profesional artists
tend to suffer from.

Well... Celtic Emporer...thats my little critique of your work. Your good, but not good enough to shoot your mouth off at every amatuer artists that comes along. You need a personality check because you my friend are one rude dude. Ok...people like Panther and rajee are very much amatuer artists, but you are certainly an amatuer critic. My god man..don't be asking "How old are you?" "How long did you spend on the piece." Neither are relevant. I've seen 14 years old with your skill and 25 year olds that can spit out master pieces in 15 minutes. Not complex masterpieces, but certainly good stuff. While your additude was elitists towards rajee...I felt your additude was even harsher towards Lou Panther's art. Your welcome to your opnion, but don't be so harsh when your work needs a lot of polish.

Now...It wouldn't be fair for me to critque you without some credentials. That being the case...below are two pieces I was commissioned to do. By your standards, my skill exceeds yours
and I should just be an elitists and tell you how much your art sucks..which I did. Doesn't feel so great does it? Keep it in mind the next time you have an opinion. You can do more for an artist
with encouragement and advice than putting on airs.
I'm just another guy with a pencil and there are plenty better than me. Believing in ones ability is fine. Just don't be an elitist snob. Its very unattractive.


These are on a geocities site so cut and paste boy & girls

my version of anime
http://www.geocities.com/ziggypop999/triplebreasteda.jpg

a bat and a cat
http://www.geocities.com/ziggypop999/batpanthera.jpg

 

[amk714]

Nice work, zigster! Good post, too. 😀

 

[GeoffFireseed]

You know, if I weren't mistaken, I'd say that's Eccentrica Gallumbits, the triple-breasted ***** of Eroticon Six. [/Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy]

I liked the picture all three though. Good work to both of you.

 

[tarr2k]

Rob Liefeld is a classic example of what zigster's talking about. Liefeld was a self-taught artist, something he bragged about during the height of his popularity ten years ago. People consumed his stuff because it was chic; but that didn't last. His stuff is obviously poor in retrospect: his anatomy (attrocious in some cases), his inconsistency, his one-trick-pony poses. He made no discernible effort to advance the artform or seek out new means of expression. Liefeld shows that just because someone has taken the title of artist doesn't mean they're art is actually good.

Art is a means of communication. When the audience rejects the art it is usually for one of these reasons: they don't like what they're being told (art conveys a message that's offensive to their sensibilities; Frank Zappa), they don't understand what they're being told (art conveys a message in a new form of expression that they can't understand; Salvadore Dali), the art's failings prevent them from understanding (low quality; Liefeld). An artist should always keep in mind that just because two of the three are the fault of the audience, it doesn't mean that it's always the case by any stretch of the imagination. It should always be remembered that all artists reach a point where they can no longer improve their talents; it's called "death."

It has been my own experience in my art (which is not drawing; my pictrues are just fun stuff that I do to pass the time, and I'm content with their amateur look) that, if you view going from the beginning until artistic perfection, it takes fairly equal amounts of time to cover half the distance to your goal. The first progression is quick and easy, as is the second and so on. But once you reach a very skilled level progressing small amounts becomes very difficult, and the eventual goal of artistic perfection is clearly impossible. What is asked at every point is "Am I satisfied with how far I've gone, or do I want to work harder to push further?"

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Re: My reply to the masses

I spent 15 minutes drawing that picture. Why should it matter to you? I want to put a picture with my username after my posts.

It doesn't really matter. Just curious. In order to put a picture in your sig you have to have the picture uploaded to a server first.



@ zigster-

That was nothing more than a cheap shot in an attempt to rouse me into feeling bad or guilty. My opinion is my opinion and I don't appriciate your bringing me into this. Next time you have a problem with me, you take it to PMs.

You may think you tought me some lesson or knocked me off some high horse, but you didn't. I'll continue as I see fit so long as its not an insult to him. I'm merely critquing his work, and I'm not stopping anyone from critquing mine. If I had, that would be hypocritcal.

Not once did I suggest that my art is better than anyone elses. I not only post that art you see there, but in many other places. And everyone, literally, loves the stuff. So far, your just one person.

Your attempt to get technical with me as if to talk down to me was pointless and got neither of us or him anywhere.

Panther is one thing, this artist is another. Rather than just saying "good work" "nice job" like everyone else, I'm going to tell him the truth and actually critque it. I'm assuming thats why his art is here, to be critqued. Theres no such thing as simply sharing art and not expecting someone to have an opinion on it. In things like these you have to be prepared to hear good and bad.

Whats worse? Telling someone their art skills could use some work, or lying to them and saying "good job" like everyone else, and giving the artist a false sense of skill? While it would be friendly and help ones reputation to say nice things, thats probably the harmful choice. The errors in my work aren't readily visible unless you intentionaly probe it with the point you were trying to make.

As I said before, what you see there is not even half of what I'd be capable of if I spent more time with each picture. Its not a lack of skills, but a lazy habit. But yet it doesn't seem to matter because everyone likes it. And you only made those contrary remarks so as to burst a bubble I don't have.

You've assumed several things from the getgo, and I have not done the same to you.

Oh, and those links aren't working for your pictures. Hopefully those servers or what have you will be working later. I'll tell you something else too, this forum is the only place I know of that has a constant problem with links. Have you guys ever considered uploading the pictures to your own server, or linking members to another forum where the pictures are? I haven't been around here that long, but its already getting irritating. How do you guys put up with it? Or do you just get used to it?


EDIT: Ok, they are working now. And you really did yack like that for nothing. Your first picture can't even be compared to some of my better ones. And the batman picture is good, great even. However, I quesion whether you used a reference picture or not. I don't. I work strictly on memory. So I have that as an excuse if I needed to use it, but I don't feel I do because your art is no more better than mine after seeing it IMO.

Thats what this all boils down to, OPINIONS. As you were, instigator. (Just paying the cheap shot back. Nothing personal.)

 

[zigster]

pal...you may not realize it, but your an elitist ass and yes...you do think your art is "hot stuff" and see fit to negatively criticise
"lesser" artists. It's the sign of weak ego, as is your defensive additude. If you don't care; then why bother defending yourself
or being offended by my "cheap shots".

The opinions of people in this or any other group outside forums designed to constructively criticise must be taken with a grain of salt. These people are being nice. They are not going to be critical.
The same person who applauds your stuff also applauds Rajee. I will
admit your not on the same playing field, but do you see my point?
You want the hard truth...take your art to fellow artists and ask for honest opinions. Here is one:
http://www.penciljack.com/
Submit your art to them for criticism and critique. You will be in for an eye opening experience. Who knows...you might even learn something.

As for your excuses...you have none. You have a larger portfolio of work?...Your capable of better if you spent more time on it? Cheap excuses pal. Showing what your capable of and putting the time in to create the best you can is what your supposed to do as an artist. See...you claim you can do better, but until you do your just another
artist wanna be who uses their lazy additude as a cruch for their substandard art.

Finally, yes...I do use references. I use references all the time
and that is why my art looks good. See...another problem you have is ego and you don't even deserve it based on your work. Your to egotistical to use references to create better work. Somehow that lessens you as an artist? You think drawing from memory puts you above
artists who use references, but it doesn't. It just keeps you within the narrow drawing skill level your at and doesn't allow for growth or improvement.

Get a clue guy...you do ok work and I'm sure you will improve whether you clean up your additude and ego or not. However, I think you'll
improve faster if you accept that your not "hot snot" but "cold boogers on a paper plate" (showing my age) and there is no room for ego if your going to improve...and finally...be gracious...you can critique....but remember...there is ALWAYS someone better than yourself so be kind. You CAN be truthful as well as KIND. Something you need to learn.

 

[zigster]

to GeoffFireseed

Didn't think of it...I just like big ole tities...so I guess the more the merrier 😉
thanks

 

[grippedchimp]

Hey rajee, today's humiliation, tomorrow's fuel for victory! (Sorry, play too much Garou: Mark of the Wolves) Criticism can help improve yourself. I got harsh criticism in the past, and I improved myself.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

pal...you may not realize it, but your an elitist ass and yes...you do think your art is "hot stuff" and see fit to negatively criticise
"lesser" artists. It's the sign of weak ego, as is your defensive additude. If you don't care; then why bother defending yourself
or being offended by my "cheap shots".

The opinions of people in this or any other group outside forums designed to constructively criticise must be taken with a grain of salt. These people are being nice. They are not going to be critical.
The same person who applauds your stuff also applauds Rajee. I will
admit your not on the same playing field, but do you see my point?
You want the hard truth...take your art to fellow artists and ask for honest opinions. Here is one:
http://www.penciljack.com/
Submit your art to them for criticism and critique. You will be in for an eye opening experience. Who knows...you might even learn something.

As for your excuses...you have none. You have a larger portfolio of work?...Your capable of better if you spent more time on it? Cheap excuses pal. Showing what your capable of and putting the time in to create the best you can is what your supposed to do as an artist. See...you claim you can do better, but until you do your just another
artist wanna be who uses their lazy additude as a cruch for their substandard art.

Finally, yes...I do use references. I use references all the time
and that is why my art looks good. See...another problem you have is ego and you don't even deserve it based on your work. Your to egotistical to use references to create better work. Somehow that lessens you as an artist? You think drawing from memory puts you above
artists who use references, but it doesn't. It just keeps you within the narrow drawing skill level your at and doesn't allow for growth or improvement.

Get a clue guy...you do ok work and I'm sure you will improve whether you clean up your additude and ego or not. However, I think you'll
improve faster if you accept that your not "hot snot" but "cold boogers on a paper plate" (showing my age) and there is no room for ego if your going to improve...and finally...be gracious...you can critique....but remember...there is ALWAYS someone better than yourself so be kind. You CAN be truthful as well as KIND. Something you need to learn.

I'm sorry, but I totally disagree with you. You DO NOT KNOW ME, and my attitude now can't be used to judge me. All the points now you just made are cheap. I could counter every single thing you said and slap you in the face with it, but I'll be the man and end this instead of dragging what you started on. I'm only being defensive because you started it. It has nothing to do with what you said. I couldn't care less. Do you hear? Less. Because nothing you said can be proven, I could easily prove how its not and your assuming a hell of a lot of things here about me based only on an attitude you stirred up, and nothing you said changes anything. So just shut the hell up and move on.

I can critque him in any way I please. If his art sucks, I'll say it, if it doesn't or improves, I'll say that too. I reserve the right. And if you once again assume this is the kind of person I am, thats totally not true. Everywhere else I have nothing but nice things to say, and its a very productive atmosphere.

The only reason this is an issue is because YOU made it one. You have no idea what I would have said about his picture. And your probably basing it on what I've said before. You have to also face the fact that some people are harsh/demanding critics. I'm not going to butter anyone up, or say something thats not true.


@ GP- Yes, that is true. And thats a welcome exchange in most scenarios like this. All I'm saying is people shouldn't expect to hear what they think other people will say, or what they want to hear.

This is a fetish community. And as I've said before, its not my thing, and I'm out of my element when I draw things for this community. Even I can see some of the errors in my work. I don't need anyone to tell me that. In fact, being the artist, I can tell what I did right and wrong every time. You've been on my group and usually have things to say about my work. You know that if people wanted to critque it they could. Because don't I always say "Comments, questions, and concerns are welcome." with a smile on my face?

But do take into account that drawing like this for me is very constricting. I can't "do my thing" or "work my magic" like this. Perhaps that's a barrier I'll break. I will agree with one thing zigster said in his last post. I will improve regardless of how I act. This has been a gross misunderstanding fueled by my simply critquing twice. TWICE. And one of them was about a man whose cheating his customers/members. Its not like I'm some forum bully picking on people smaller than me. I know where I am in the artist bracket. I know whose better than me, and whose not. I accept that. I'm intitled to my opinions, whether they be harsh, or kind and sweet.

 

[zigster]

Guy..you are more f@cked than a christmas turkey.
I have the RITE...my RITE....give me a break. You abuse that
rite when you use it with not a care for the feelings of others.
If you wish to merely degrade a fellow artist then keep doing what your doing. If you wish to actually help that artist you might try critiquing with encouragement. There is no need to be vile unless you
recieve some perverse pleasure from it. Your right..you entitled...and I'm entitled to stand against you and let you know what
an ass you are. Be gone with you boy...and learn to be a man.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

What your saying is just common sense, and you assume I have none. I know what I can, would, should, and will or will not do. All in due time. Theres not much to say about his art right now. But that isn't saying I've forsaken it. I hope he improves. He's got the right idea, and I look forward to his improvements. But until then, I'll say what I want about the work he presents. Good and bad. I've not abused a right I have. But your tone suggests I don't have that right at all, so thats why I continue making mention of it.

If you thought you were going to get the last word, I'm sorry. And I'm not going anywhere. 😛

Your calling me a boy, but yet your allowing me to play you like a fiddle. Wise up and just walk away from this. If you don't like what I have to say next time about his art, then you can kindly state your opinion. You're already assuming whatever comes out of my mouth will be bad. Shame on you.

 

[zigster]

No boy..I'm just assuming your going to be a dumba$$. I'll keep my eye on you. If you wanna play...be prepared to get hurt.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Sticks and stones, sticks and stones Ziggy. Oh no, the warden is watching me. What could you possibly do? Nothing, but rant.

Isn't a moderator or someone neutral going to come in and stop this? This shouldn't be happening. But you have this guy to thank for that.

 

[zigster]

You have no idea boy...If I was malicious and didn't care about the people who enjoy your art...I could report you to Yahoo and have your
club closed for having members not verified(new yahoo group rule)...for being an adult oriented club (contrary to popular belief..yahoo wont support adult groups but dont actively eliminate them). Hell, they might even view your pics as kiddie porn...which they aren't. Yahoo is funny that way.
Its best not to attract their sniffs. So I COULD do more than rant...boy. 😉

 

[grippedchimp]

Celtic_Emperor, zigster... you're as bad as each other. rajee wanted to know your opinion, and this thread ended up as an argument between you two. If you two are so professional, then grow up and act like professionals, for God's sake!
Celtic, don't rant about your non-fetish approach. Much as I respect your excellent work, you should respect what other people do here. One of the rules in the TMF is "If you're not gonna say anything nice, then don't say anything". Never berate anyone's efforts.
zipster, your artwork looks good, but adding fuel to the fire like that ain't gonna win you many friends. And don't big yourself up either unless can do tickling art on a regular basis just like the rest of us contributors!

 

[zigster]

Chimp

I ain't out to win friends...I don't like elitist a$$hole artists
who badmouth up and commers. Jerks like that help snuff out future
artists. This thread is over for me..but if I see him get out of line I AM gonna slap him good. If he did it to you I'd do the same.As for tickling art...it doesn't matter what I draw...I draw well...but yes, I have done tickling art...because its not here means nothing...you've seen it. 😉

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Well said GP. I'm glad you were the one to do something about it.

As far as him, if he wants to play dirty, I can do that too. He thinks reporting a site that has commited no crime is bad news for me? Being a nuisance isn't going to do anything to me. I can do more than just report a site. So big deal. Besides, I'll have my own site. Its not like all my eggs are in one basket like this fool seems to believe. He has no idea what I'm doing and what my plans are beyond that yahoo group. The only opinion he has is the one I'm giving to him. Because until he has more of a legit. reason to threaten me, it's just a crock.

EDIT: You're going to slap me huh? Yup. Just like a fiddle. Look what you've become during the course of this thread. And I'm the boy? You directly threatened me for doing nothing more than stating my opinion. What a loser.

 

[Uni]

Gentlemen...

Has it come down to this? Barking back and forth like beasts behind fences? I mean really, I thought this was a civilized age. Does a moderator really have to come in and slam the both of you? Because they will eventually do so and although I'm sure neither of you care at this point, it really shouldn't have to come down to such measures.
I personally think that the both of you are missing something very basic, which was the creative act in and of itself. Nevermind the matter of skill, the man drew something that came out of his mind. That's a very beautiful thing in my opinion, and while I can attest that my tastes are not attuned to his work, I will salute the fellow for his effort.
Now if you guys want to slam each other's hard drives around, then so be it, do what you have to. But I'm sure the moderators won't stand for a flame war at all, which is what this is slowly becoming. In other words, take it outside please.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Well said Uni. I'm all for that. I'm not the one being unreasonable. He started it, AND he just threatened me right now. Anyone that reads this thread is my witness.

As I said, I'm all for this artist getting better. While my like or dislike for a picture is based more on the quality than the idea sometimes, it's not as if I can't appriciate what he's trying to do. I do believe he has talent. I'm just agressive, and that makes me "an elitist a$$hole artist" to quote our friend Ziggy, in his opinion. 🙄

I'm all for stopping this. So lets.

 

[rajee]

It's Time To Unite

Every has a right to their own opinion. As well, every TMF member has a priviledge to post suitable material. Let's just accept each others opinions as what they are subjective thoughts on a topic we are interested in. Let's end the petty bickering here and enjoy the TMF while it is still esists on the net. For me, I will read and accept other members opinions and I will continue to post my cartoons and other material because it is one post closer to my first goal of 2000.

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