Why I formed a "Straight Men into M/M tickling group"

[kucheeku]

I've started a group on Fetlife titled: "Straight Men into M/M Tickling". This is the introduction to the group:

Over the last 20 years, it's become apparent to me that more str8-identified guys are into m/m tickling than most people realize. Many of them have reached out to me to chat about their interests and I've had the sincere pleasure of playing with some of them. I've even developed some good friendships.

What I've found over the years is that many of these men have found difficulty with safely expressing their interests in m/m tickling for various reasons. Some of the reasons posed to me were:

Needing discretion because of relationships, family, or work status
Moral conflict with their desires due to internalized homophobia
Fear of connecting with strangers
Prior bad m/m experience

Thus, I created a group for str8-identified men to meet and chat with each other about their desires, concerns, histories and feelings.

BTW, if you were wondering, yes I am a gay male. However, I've been with a great many str8-identified guys and respect discretion.

 

[Toesheldback]

While it’s not my thing, I applaud you for trying something new, and hope that people on here are tolerant and gentle.

 

[Soles_Scream]

While it’s not my thing, I applaud you for trying something new, and hope that people on here are tolerant and gentle.

This! I have nothing to add

 

[SBMcGraw]

While it’s not my thing, I applaud you for trying something new, and hope that people on here are tolerant and gentle.

This! I have nothing to add

We can all start our "tolerance" by stopping the use of the disclaimer "it's not my thing" every time a heterosexual replies to a M/M thread. Do you see us prefacing our responses to M/F, F/M, and F/F posts that way?

 

[Libertine]

There's absolutely nothing gay about wanting to get tied up while naked or partially clad and be tickled by other men.

Nor is it the least bit gay to take the active role in such a scenario.

Anyone who believes otherwise is homophobic.

 

[Toesheldback]

We can all start our "tolerance" by stopping the use of the disclaimer "it's not my thing" every time a heterosexual replies to a M/M thread. Do you see us prefacing our responses to M/F, F/M, and F/F posts that way?

Yeah, actually I have, “Boots”. Sorry I jumped in an M/M thread and encouraged support.

That was a pretty “tolerant” response from you also.

 

[Soles_Scream]

We can all start our "tolerance" by stopping the use of the disclaimer "it's not my thing" every time a heterosexual replies to a M/M thread. Do you see us prefacing our responses to M/F, F/M, and F/F posts that way?

I use that phrase when responding to things like tickle torture, bondage, f/m, etc. At any rate, I appreciated the spirit of his comment.

 

[S1]

There's absolutely nothing gay about wanting to get tied up while naked or partially clad and be tickled by other men.

Nor is it the least bit gay to take the active role in such a scenario.

Anyone who believes otherwise is homophobic.

Ok.

 

[tiedup]

It's really belittling when you call straight men "straight-identified" men, especially when you spell it with an 8. No one else does this with any other orientation. "Lesbian-identified women", "trans-identified men". It creates the implication, even if you don't mean it to, that you don't actually believe these men are straight. It's really annoying and every time I've spoken to you I've wanted to say something, so I figured I'd just say it now.

Additionally, by saying "I've been with a great many str8-identified guys and respect discretion." you are showing that you have no respect for us whatsoever. You should not respect "discretion", you should respect people.

You do not understand the mind of straight men who engage in m/m tickling and I know this because I've listened to your podcast, read a great deal of your writing, and spoken to you personally. It is my honest belief that you are woefully insincere and should not be leading anything.

 

[kucheeku]

Anyone who has any concerns over why a "Straight Men for M/M Tickling" group should not exist or why I should not be able to introduce one is welcome to DM me and we'll have a serious discussion about it, rather than a public contest as to who can piss the furthest.

Happy Holidays!

 

[Wolf]

We can all start our "tolerance" by stopping the use of the disclaimer "it's not my thing" every time a heterosexual replies to a M/M thread. Do you see us prefacing our responses to M/F, F/M, and F/F posts that way?

Perhaps they're just wanting to express support, while heading off any awkward PMs.

 

[berlinerbaer]

Perhaps they're just wanting to express support, while heading off any awkward PMs.

Interesting point, maybe valid. Although for some straight guys receiving awkward messages might be quite educational and help them NOT send similar awkward messages to women.

 

[S1]

Anyone who has any concerns over why a "Straight Men for M/M Tickling" group should not exist or why I should not be able to introduce one is welcome to DM me and we'll have a serious discussion about it, rather than a public contest as to who can piss the furthest.

Happy Holidays!

No one has a problem with it existing or you introducing it. You just seem very hostile to everyone who has replied and not expressed support in a very specific way that you deem acceptable.

 

[kucheeku]

No one has a problem with it existing or you introducing it. You just seem very hostile to everyone who has replied and not expressed support in a very specific way that you deem acceptable.

you might want to check with "tiedup". Happy Holidays!

 

[tiedup]

Anyone who has any concerns over why a "Straight Men for M/M Tickling" group should not exist or why I should not be able to introduce one is welcome to DM me and we'll have a serious discussion about it, rather than a public contest as to who can piss the furthest.

Happy Holidays!

To be explicitly clear: I believe such a group is a good idea and should exist. Additionally, I believe you being involved with it delegitimizes its value and potential.

Pointing out that your public speech is disrespectful is not initiating a pissing contest. C'mon, man

 

[kucheeku]

To be explicitly clear: I believe such a group is a good idea and should exist. Additionally, I believe you being involved with it delegitimizes its value and potential.

Pointing out that your public speech is disrespectful is not initiating a pissing contest. C'mon, man

Still waiting for your response to the offer of discussing your issues with me via DM. So far, nothing. And nothing is also the case for your entire board output regarding these issues that hurt you deeply. You've only had four posts in your entire history and the only one bringing up the str8 mens group issue is the first post flaming me above.

Let's bring this down to brass tacks. As I had mentioned before, I've been hearing from STRAIGHT men into M/M tickling as a kink/fetish for 20 years. At any time, there could have been any number of men that wanted to start up a supporting/connection group for them. It just so happens that I'm the first to offer having these men in a particular set of circumstances get together and know they are not the only ones out there.

If you don't think I can do it, "tiedup," here's a suggestion: step up. My contributions to this board number more than 150x yours and many of them, yes, do center on how these men are being neglected and forgotten. "Sorry" for caring.

 

[Wolf]

Interesting point, maybe valid. Although for some straight guys receiving awkward messages might be quite educational and help them NOT send similar awkward messages to women.

That is an unmistakenly valid point.

 

[kucheeku]

Interesting point, maybe valid. Although for some straight guys receiving awkward messages might be quite educational and help them NOT send similar awkward messages to women.

Yes, and thank you. The point about helping men re-evaluate how messaging anyone into fetish play takes civility and respect is well taken. 100%

 

[tiedup]

Still waiting for your response to the offer of discussing your issues with me via DM. So far, nothing. And nothing is also the case for your entire board output regarding these issues that hurt you deeply. You've only had four posts in your entire history and the only one bringing up the str8 mens group issue is the first post flaming me above.

Let's bring this down to brass tacks. As I had mentioned before, I've been hearing from STRAIGHT men into M/M tickling as a kink/fetish for 20 years. At any time, there could have been any number of men that wanted to start up a supporting/connection group for them. It just so happens that I'm the first to offer having these men in a particular set of circumstances get together and know they are not the only ones out there.

If you don't think I can do it, "tiedup," here's a suggestion: step up. My contributions to this board number more than 150x yours and many of them, yes, do center on how these men are being neglected and forgotten. "Sorry" for caring.

Two facts to consider:

1) You are not entitled to a DM conversation with me. I am not obligated to have a private discussion with you. It isn't inappropriate to publicly address how you present yourself on a public forum. That is how public forums work.

2) One's post history is irrelevant to the merit of their words. Had I spent 10 years commenting and posting on this website, my statements would not be any more or less valid. Number of posts and length of post history is not an accurate measure of value a person has provided. Contributions can be good or bad. Yours, for example, often trivialize and misrepresent people.

It is astounding that you have been corresponding with straight men into tickling for 20 years and you still do not have the decency to stop typing "str8" even in this very conversation.

I clearly don't think that you can't do it, I think that you shouldn't do it. You are being willfully ignorant.

Additionally, compelling me to step up and do a better job than you is a symptom of a flawed mindset. The mindset "Well I'm doing SOMETHING, which is more than you're doing!" is self-congratulatory and flawed because, like I said earlier, not all action is helpful. If you insist, however, then I'll point out that by calling you out, I am stepping up.

You are not saving us by talking about us. The reason I take issue with your commentary on us is because you refuse to acknowledge obvious realities about our situation and deliberately present information that isn't important as though it is. You regard yourself as someone with an amount of authority on the subject and you are not.

The first and thus most important reason you list in your original post as to why straight men are uncomfortable expressing interest in m/m tickling is:

Needing discretion because of relationships, family, or work status

Not only are you indirectly condoning dishonesty within a relationship, you are willfully ignoring the actual main reason we are uncomfortable.

The main reason we are uncomfortable is because our interest in m/m tickling is one of necessity, of desperation, and of supply and demand. For 95% of the straight men engaging in m/m tickling, they would rather be doing it with women, but can't. There are very few women into tickling and getting a female tickle partner is very hard outside of a relationship. Getting a relationship with someone you love is even harder than finding a tickle partner and can take years. These men are left with very few options to explore their love of tickling. For a lot of us, the only realistic option to be tickled is to be tickled by another guy. Thus the choice between m/m ticking and no tickling at all has to be made.

For the vast, vast majority of straight guys participating in m/m tickling, it is only because they can't find women to do it with.

In your words, verbatim, on the interesting sex podcast, in which you represented the entire tickling community, you said:

I label it as straight-identified men, basically because some of them may be closeted and maybe, you know, not saying so, maybe they're not quite open.

These are your words exactly.

You do not respect us. You remain willfully ignorant.

 

[kucheeku]

"In your words, verbatim, on the interesting sex podcast, in which you represented the entire tickling community, you said:
I label it as straight-identified men, basically because some of them may be closeted and maybe, you know, not saying so, maybe they're not quite open."

You know, there are better things to do on my Christmas Day than to have to deal with attempted character assassination but I gotta go and do this again...

If you've listened to the podcast--which I recommend to all listeners, thank you-- I make it very clear that I'm into men's feet and tickling men. Your presumption that I "represented the entire tickling community" is completely flawed and hilariously illogical. If I were to say I was into m/f tickling and you said I was representative of the ENTIRE tickling community, that would be just as flawed.

I stand by the other statement as well. *****SOME***** of the men I've encountered may be closeted and not open. Others may not care for the labeling, but I use "straight-identified" as a foundation to begin discussing these issues of desire. Whichever direction they come from, I don't care. What matters is that they have urges for m/m tickling that you, quite honestly, disrespect because you've apparently not talked as deeply and honestly to the men as I have. Otherwise, you would discover some of your assumptions as flawed.

Stating that 95% of the straight men into m/m tickling would rather being engaging in tickling/being tickled by women is a broad statement you take as fact. Empirical? You sure? You see, of the straight men who are into m/m tickling that I've actually conversed with, rather than simply speculated about, most have fallen into one or more of the following categories:

1) they've had this since very young and it didn't matter who did the tickling
2) they are lers with women, but lees with men (this one is VERY common with the men I've encountered)
3) enjoyed being lees with women, but men were "better" as ticklers because they've craved tickling more as "torture" and felt the women who tickled them were not "brutal" enough

and they've had varying degrees of how sexually intense they enjoyed m/m tickling. A great many of them enjoyed being tickled to the point of sexual arousal with orgasm. Others did not want any sexual fondling or manipulation of private parts and simply wanted or craved tickling either as their sole fetish activity or one combined with other activities (spanking, domination, etc).

Sorry if I don't have the medical literature for all of this, but you instigated the shitposting based on my introducing a social group. Wow. If you want what I've written to be empirical evidence, get me a grant. I'll accept and do the research or get someone else to do so. I don't mind.

If you don't want to civilly DM me regarding more of this and just want to spew about this publicly, I'm done trying to cater to you. I'm not Burger King, and you can't simply "have it your way" with me.

Finally, about the abbreviation "str8". Dear God, get over it. You're on a board that used "M" for male, "F" for female, and you're showing incredible insecurity in a world that uses the terms "trans", NB, and CD. WTF?

 

[tiedup]

If restating your words verbatim is character assassination, you should probably take greater care in how you choose to speak.

The majesty and grandeur of the English language, it's the greatest possession we have. The noblest thoughts that ever flowed through the hearts of men are contained in its extraordinary, imaginative, and musical mixtures of sounds. And that's what you've set yourself out to conquer Eliza. And conquer it you will.

How you speak is important. When you use language like "straight-identified," especially when your justification for doing so is the assumption that they are either lying or that you somehow know more about them than they themselves do, you display a lack of empathy and of understanding about who you speak.

You choose to ignore what I said and are remaining willfully ignorant. All of what you described is not only compatible with what I said, but logically sound. Since women ticklers are so rare, it makes sense that someone who wanted to be tickled regardless of the gender of the tickler would find themselves tickled more often by men. Anyone with half a brain knows that saying one gender is "better" at tickling than another is pointless and untrue. However, since there are so many more men actually into tickling than women, it makes sense that most of the people who are very skilled at it are men. Thus someone wanting to be skillfully tickled is almost certainly going to have more luck finding a man to do it than a woman. My exact point.

"str8" is a term predominantly, and indeed almost exclusively, used within the gay community and is often used patronizingly, just like you saying "straight-identified." It carries an underlying patronizing implication. An implication of insincerity. If you had respect for us, you would take the extra few moments to spell the word correctly.

 

[footfan69]

I've started a group on Fetlife titled: "Straight Men into M/M Tickling". This is the introduction to the group:

Over the last 20 years, it's become apparent to me that more str8-identified guys are into m/m tickling than most people realize. Many of them have reached out to me to chat about their interests and I've had the sincere pleasure of playing with some of them. I've even developed some good friendships.

What I've found over the years is that many of these men have found difficulty with safely expressing their interests in m/m tickling for various reasons. Some of the reasons posed to me were:

Needing discretion because of relationships, family, or work status
Moral conflict with their desires due to internalized homophobia
Fear of connecting with strangers
Prior bad m/m experience

Thus, I created a group for str8-identified men to meet and chat with each other about their desires, concerns, histories and feelings.

BTW, if you were wondering, yes I am a gay male. However, I've been with a great many str8-identified guys and respect discretion.

Thanks for creating this group, kucheeku. I’m not on Fetlife, but it is a group I could easily join. I’m a straight M into tickling of all kinds, F/F, M/F, F/M, and M/M. Who the Lee and Ler are does not matter to me as long as both partners are having fun, respect boundaries, and generally like to be with each other. Since most of our members are male, it stands to reason that a fair percentage of us would be into the M/M scene. A good story or video is a good story or video. How many people have joined your group so far?

 

[kucheeku]

Thanks for creating this group, kucheeku. I’m not on Fetlife, but it is a group I could easily join. I’m a straight M into tickling of all kinds, F/F, M/F, F/M, and M/M. Who the Lee and Ler are does not matter to me as long as both partners are having fun, respect boundaries, and generally like to be with each other. Since most of our members are male, it stands to reason that a fair percentage of us would be into the M/M scene. A good story or video is a good story or video. How many people have joined your group so far?

Thank you. As of this post, there are 9 men who have joined, myself included. I even have another group there called "Platonic Male/Male Tickling and Foot Worship" with 41 members. That group is open to guys of any orientations.

 

[Sensualswitch10]

Also

str8

As applied to a guy, refers to a man in denial about the fact that however much he likes pussy and the female form in general, he also likes a heapin' helping of the man meat from time to time. However, he will swear up and down that he is absolutely not bi in any way, shape or form, even as he goes to suck your dick with the finesse of a $1000/hour call girl. Poor bastard.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=str8

 

[kucheeku]

Also



https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=str8

As a 60 year-old guy, I can safely say that the urban dictionary is not on my everyday reading list. Suffice to say that my use of "str8" is simply my lazy ass abbreviating and not as an indication of whether or not I believe a guy when he tells me he's straight. I take his response exactly as he gives it to me without judgement, as I refuse to give him the third degree over it.