Why must we support our President?

[amk714]

Following the new rules, I am posting my reply to a quote made in another thread here.

Originally posted by ForgottenTcklr

Come on fellows, he is our president and it is our job as citizens to stand behind him (whether we voted for him or not). It's great to make jokes as long as we are still in total support of what he does. He is working for us, lets help him do it right!

FT, why do we have to support what he does? 😕 The beauty of this country is that you can still be an American even if you disagree with what actions the President takes or what things he believes in. Some say "Love it or leave it" but I don't. I love America but that doesn't mean I can't criticize its government. I am not a Bush supporter and I am not afraid to say so. Sorry, FT, but that's my opinion. Nothing personal, you seem like a nice guy, but I must respectfully disagree with you on this. Thanks for your recent posts on making the TMF a better place. 🙂

 

[Krokus]

Yanno

I know this will probably be deleted...but I am so sick and f***ing tired of political crap....I don't even care anymore. This thread will probably stir up alot of flaming and/or heavy arguing...So go ahead, argue about something you don't have the power to change. Mindless.

 

[TicklingDuo]

I agree that we have a duty to support the president...or any elected official...in doing their job. However, I don't see that as being a blind follower. When we disagree, we should say so...and say why...and offer alternatives. That, too, can be a support. If we bow to everything that's said/done, then we abdicate our rights. That isn't a productive thing and ends up detracting from the ability of that official to do their job.

So....support them? Absolutely.

Follow blindly? NEVER!

Ann

 

[JoBelle]

AMK,
I can see your logic that one might choose not to not personally agree with a course of action.

However, a quotation comes to mind. "A house divided against itself cannot stand." Though President Lincoln was not referring to the same events as the current president, I am persuaded to believe the premise is the same. I believe the main strength of any country is the unified front it exhibits to the world. We have far too many people in the United States to have each person feel his or her opinion should outweigh the leader of the country whether we elected him or not.

I'm not a Bush supporter, but I see the need to respect the office of the Presidency and support IT. Once a course of action is selected, inner strife will only belittle the country and weaken all sides, not just the one with whom you disagree. Prior to that, it's open game, but after...well...not so much.
At least that's my take on it.

Joby

 

[BigJim]

If you're a supporter of the system that put him in his chair, then as far as I can see you're a supporter of the office; even if you didn't vote for him. All presidents are products of the system, so I'd say that all voters are duty bound in some fashion, although I do agree that you should have the right to disagree. Vociferously if need be.

Something that Flatfoot said to Shining Ice did perturb me though. ICe as many of you know, is joining the Marine Corps next year. When he said that "Bush is no President of mine" Flatfoot advised him in not so many words that such a sentiment would'nt do his promotion prospects much good. To quote Gene Hackman in that submarine movie he was in with Denzil Washington (Red Tide or something?) "we're here to protect democracy, not practice it." I can understand the futility of deciding by ballot any decisions in the military, but I always understood that a Private saluted the commission held, not the man. It does give me a bit of a quiver and a gulp of me ing-erlish tea to think that disapproval of the President on a personal basis could bugger your career, even if you still respected the **** rank that went with the Pres. Hell if the chief instructer is a Christian, even saying you don't believe in the Virgin Mary can result in you getting on your face and giving him fifty.

 

[amk714]

Re: Yanno

I know this will probably be deleted...but I am so sick and f***ing tired of political crap....I don't even care anymore. This thread will probably stir up alot of flaming and/or heavy arguing...So go ahead, argue about something you don't have the power to change. Mindless.

Krokus, thanks for responding. I'm sorry that I've apparently offended you. 🙁 I never said that FT was wrong, I was merely disagreeing with him in a very civil way. I don't like politics much, either. If this thread does stir up crap, I'll ask the mods to delete it. BTW, nice pic. If nothing else, I at least got you to post a pic of yourself, if that is indeed you. I appreciate your honesty. Stay cool, dude. 🙂

 

[amk714]

I agree that we have a duty to support the president...or any elected official...in doing their job. However, I don't see that as being a blind follower. When we disagree, we should say so...and say why...and offer alternatives. That, too, can be a support. If we bow to everything that's said/done, then we abdicate our rights. That isn't a productive thing and ends up detracting from the ability of that official to do their job.

So....support them? Absolutely.

Follow blindly? NEVER!

Ann

That's exactly what I was saying, Ann. For example, if the President decides to attack Iraq, I will support him, even if I don't think it's the right time to do so. I will also support his efforts to turn the economy around, even if I don't believe that he's doing the right things. Following blindly is what people in countries like Iraq (have to) do! Thanks for the reply, Ann. I appreciate your input. 🙂

 

[amk714]

We have far too many people in the United States to have each person feel his or her opinion should outweigh the leader of the country whether we elected him or not.

I'm not a Bush supporter, but I see the need to respect the office of the Presidency and support IT. Once a course of action is selected, inner strife will only belittle the country and weaken all sides, not just the one with whom you disagree. Prior to that, it's open game, but after...well...not so much.
At least that's my take on it.

Joby

My opinion does not outweigh anyone else's. Everyone has the right to her or his own opinion. Diversity in thought is always a good thing. I respect the office of the Presidency very much. It's a job that carries a tremendous responsibility. That's why I care about what he does. When he became President, he became my President, too, and that's the truth. I may disagree with him, but I think he's a good man. Thank you for offering your take on it, Joby. 🙂

 

[amk714]

If you're a supporter of the system that put him in his chair, then as far as I can see you're a supporter of the office; even if you didn't vote for him. All presidents are products of the system, so I'd say that all voters are duty bound in some fashion, although I do agree that you should have the right to disagree. Vociferously if need be.

It does give me a bit of a quiver and a gulp of me ing-erlish tea to think that disapproval of the President on a personal basis could bugger your career, even if you still respected the **** rank that went with the Pres.

You make a good point, BigJim. I do support our system of "democracy," so yes, I am duty bound to support the President, even if I oppose his actions. I'm also glad you brought up the possibility that if you're in the military, your chances of promotion could be affected if you make any politically charged statements such as the one by ShiningIce. I think he's a true patriot and a brave man for enlisting during (for now) peacetime. I fully support our armed forces and what they do. Even in Vietnam, they won the majority of their battles. I don't know if any of what you said is true, but it's disturbing to think about. Thank you very much for all your thoughts, BigJim. I really value what you say, even if you do go off-topic sometimes, mate. 😉

P.S. Congrats on becoming the first yellow feather. Now let's see how long it lasts! 😀

 

[BigJim]

I really value what you say, even if you do go off-topic sometimes, mate. 😉

Mr. Pot, there's a Mr. Kettle on the phone for you!" 😀😀😀

Arse! 😉 (I realise that post did little to contribute to this thread, but could'nt resist having a dig at Alex for that gibe he threw my way. 🙂 Feel free to delete.)

 

[ForgottenTcklr]

Amk,

You must understand that there is a big difference between agreeing with what he does and supporting him. Many political leaders do things everyday that I definately do not agree with. That is not my issue.
I definately do not expect anyone to conform their views to those of some beuracratical asshole. But whether we agree or disagree with our President, it is still our job to support him in his position.
Here in America we have taken freedom a little to far in certain aspects to where we feel like if we didn't vote for him we owe him no support. And I guess in reality that's true.
But we must not forget that the President is representing us. When people see the President they portray him as the AMERICAN. We need to know and stand tall for the man (or woman) who is willing to take upon all of that responsibillity.

 

[ForgottenTcklr]

And if you won't accept that, how about:

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer!

LOL/ Just kidding.

Abe Lincoln in 2004!!!

 

[amk714]

But we must not forget that the President is representing us. When people see the President they portray him as the AMERICAN. We need to know and stand tall for the man (or woman) who is willing to take upon all of that responsibillity.

All these replies have made me realize that I misunderstood what you said, and I'm very sorry for that. I do support the President. Thanks to all for this discussion, I always like talking with others about things that affect us all. 🙂

P.S. Gray Davis in 2002. 😀

 

[ForgottenTcklr]

It's all worth discussion... whether you agree or disagree.

You are under no way forced to support our President. It's just a novel idea!

Thanks for the conversation Amk.

CAPTAIN KANGAROO IN 2004!!!

 

[Krokus]

Re: Re: Yanno

Krokus, thanks for responding. I'm sorry that I've apparently offended you. 🙁 I never said that FT was wrong, I was merely disagreeing with him in a very civil way. I don't like politics much, either. If this thread does stir up crap, I'll ask the mods to delete it. BTW, nice pic. If nothing else, I at least got you to post a pic of yourself, if that is indeed you. I appreciate your honesty. Stay cool, dude. 🙂

Hey, im not offended...you did nothing wrong. Im just tired of politricks, thats all.

 

[ForgottenTcklr]

At this point aren't we all...

Tired of Politics that is.

 

[Biggles of 266]

when a man tires of politics, he is tired of having his life run for him by out-of-touch individuals

Biggles 😀

 

[BigJim]

Re: Re: Re: Yanno

Im just tired of politricks, thats all.

Poli-tics comes from two root verbs............. Poly, meaning "many of" and tics, meaning "blood sucking parasites".


I have a theoretical question to put to you all. As FT said, the President/Prime Minister represents us all as the political head of our nation. At what point does supporting him or his regime become untenable in the face of his or her actions? Right now, 95% of the 100% of the Iraqi's who voted for Haddam Sussein truly support him and love and respect him as their leader. Yes, they'd get a firing squad at dawn if they didn't agree with him, but for most of them, they don't need that. They genuinely think he's their protector from "The Great Satan".

At what point should the political leader of a nation remember that HE should be supporting US? At what point does self-service go so far that the people are no longer honour bound to support him/her?

 

[ForgottenTcklr]

Ok, well I guess then it's not that we are tired of politics, but the antics that are happening therein.

 

[TicklingDuo]

Personally, I have no problem with government. It's the politicing of many of those in it (rather than doing their jobs) that I don't like.

Ann

MTPJeff/Myriads in 2004 😀

 

[Shem the Penman]

Well, what does "supporting the President" mean? That could range from simply not throwing garbage at him when he shows his face in public to never speaking out against his ideas. I know there are quite a few people who would rather see the latter interpretation stand.

Anyone who's seen my posts, or even my member picture, knows my opinion of the current occupants of the White House. If they set the country on a certain course, that does not oblige me to forget my reasons for thinking that course is wrong, nor does it oblige me to stop expressing those reasons. (After all, what's the alternative? "We have never been at war with Oceania. We have always been at war with Eastasia.")

The President may be our leader, but he is not the personification of America (no "L'etat, c'est moi" here) -- and disagreeing with him does not make you un-American.

Anybody but Bush/Cheney in 2004

 

[kurchatovium]

I think Jobelle put it very nicely. I think to put it another way "United we stand, Divided we Fall". As Americans we differ a great deal in ethnicity and religion yet the one thing that holds us together is our beliefs in the basic freedoms we all hold dear. It is for that reason we must always be united in times of adversity.

 

[omega]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Yanno

At what point should the political leader of a nation remember that HE should be supporting US? At what point does self-service go so far that the people are no longer honour bound to support him/her?

Have you ever read that little declaration that we colonists sent to your king in 1776?

 

[BigJim]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yanno

Have you ever read that little declaration that we colonists sent to your king in 1776?

Plenty of times. I'm a keen historian as well as a religious scholar. Please don't run away wih the idea that I'm pro-Brit over American. I see us all as citizens of the same world, who happen to have the misfortune to be governed by a bunch of arseholes who like to keep us aprt in seperate nations. King George III was an evil old bastard and no mistake. (Even before the lunacy!)

 

[Strelnikov]

I felt no obligation to support Bill Clinton, and in fact did all I could to oppose his ideas and policies. He made me ashamed of my fellow citizens for allowing themselves to be fooled not once, but twice.

OTOH, we weren't at war then. Or, more correctly, we were but not paying attention.

My late grandfather detested Franklin Roosevelt. But he supported the man during WW-II, because FDR was every American's president and we were all in it together. That's something maybe we should all consider in light of the post-9/11 world.

Strelnikov