World War III ?

[mabus]

This is what I'm getting from the news, and it may lead up to a third world war. Amazing how history unwinds itself...we always thought it would obviously be with Russia, but now Russia is our ally.

Here's is what I'm catching from the news. I have no idea if these things will happen, so don't spout any hatred my way because I'm merely observing events.

The United States is about to attack Iraq. That will be one front. Meanwhile, China is rattling it's sabers at Taiwan because they obviously want them. The United States has promised to protect Taiwan. China may use our diversion with Iraq to go after Taiwan. But, we will defend Taiwan, wich means the US may fight a war on two fronts, Iraq and Taiwan/China. (unless other Mid East countries join in.) China has Nukes, Irag probably has chemical and biological weapons. This is looking nasty. But, Rumsfeld says we are prepared to fight a war on two fronts.
(That will be THREE fronts, China, Iraq, Afganistan - but he left out Afganistan from the equation.)


This is what I get from the pieces of news. I'm not an expert on these matters, just a regular citizen.

So, any thoughts, comments, corrections, more facts?

 

[TicklingDuo]

We've been talking about the possibility of a third world war for years. Each time, there's been plenty of stuff to raise the level of concern. However, since weapons of mass destruction are now a commonality, I think we're "safer". Why? Because each country knows that the others have and will respond with nukes. So, they don't want to give them a reason to do it. In that respect, nukes are a deterent.

Are there some leaders nuts enough to use them in a first strike anyway? Sure. Bin Laden and others like him would see it as a ticket to heaven.

Do I expect that there will be another world war one day? Sadly, yes. People are too self-centered and unthinking. But, I hope and pray that this is not that day.

Ann

 

[shark]

This was pretty much the same scenario when the Gulf War was on.
It was also the media then that started to report all kinds of shit to get ratings in their sensationalist way.
The last place I would go for reliable news is the network media. Maybe when they learn that news and editorial are different things. It's still way too early for us common citizens to get too ruffled...that's what we elected our current administration to do. This same thing has happened before,and probably with twists we still know nothing about.Let's hope the Bush administration has a better handle on their job than the INS does on theirs.Thus far, they've done well enough.

 

[Strelnikov]

If WW-III is the war against terrorism, the first shots were fired at the 1972 Munich Olympics, when Arab terrorists murdered the Israeli athletes. Several hundred Americans became casualties prior to 9/11: an old man in a wheel chair here, a few hundred Marines there, some embassy employees somewhere else.

It took 9/11 to get our attention. Now it's time decide who our friends are, and then formulate a long-term plan to attack and defeat our enemies, ALL of them. We shouldn't stop with Iraq.

You may have seen the news article about the White House briefing that called Saudi Arabia an enemy, and recommended an ultimatum followed if necessary by seizure of their oil production facilities. My take is that there's much truth here. The Bush Administration publically disavowed it, but maybe this was a not-so-gentle hint that the House of Saud needs to clean up its act. Nor should it be the last such.

Contrary to what the anti-war Left tells you, violence doesen't breed violence. Dithering irresolution and half-measures breed violence by emboldening the enemy. Violence properly applied eventually results in freedom and justice by destroying those who oppose such things. If you doubt that, ask the ghost of Adolf Hitler.

Strelnikov

 

[Haltickling]

So Adolf Hitler's violence didn't breed any violence, Strelnikov? Passivity may encourage an already existing violence potential, but it doesn't breed it. Notice the difference?

BTW: there were a lot of terrorist attacks before the Munich Olympics. Plane hijackings, bombings, kidnapping and murdering politicians.

 

[qjakal]

Things have changed a bit...

The plane hijackings of yesteryear had different purposes than those we saw recently....
Good points made by many here...I agree that being prepared is one of the best deterrents possible, but there are indeed those in the world that are just plainly insane and will not respect any of what we consider to be the tenets of society. WW3? Not sure if it will come to that, since the tendency of most nations is to sway towards the philosophy of whomever seems to be the most powerful and resolute in their area. If Iraq falls and its done with the sheer ferocity that I know we're capable of displaying, I'd be willing to bet heavily that there will be a lot of "policy shifts" coming shortly thereafter, especially if we, as a nation or Coalition stand firm and don't begin to equivocate about what we've done. Power politics isn't pretty, but at times it's extremely effective. The good news, if there can BE any in such a scenario, is that the US isn't really interested in holding conquered territory....if the Cold War had come down differently, you better believe the State Of Russia would be immense by now and nations would be clamoring to be allowed to "join" its ranks before being annexed in a destructive manner. Guess they might actually have succeeded (the hard way) in unifying the world eventually....make a good movie/book. Q

 

[Deleted member 2452]

china has been saber rattling for several years

just last year they threatened to invade tiwan if a certain candidate was elected. guess what? he was overwhelmingly elected, and china didn't do jack!
our pacific fleet will keep them out of tiwan. the mainland commies just don't have the navy to make a real attempt.
iraq won't last a week. there won't be a meaningfull 2 front war. so don't worry about a "full blown ww3".
steve

 

[Ticklish9's]

Activation and preparedness

The entire Afghani conflict has cost us 8 casualties. 8 people, while still tragic, is not an appreciable amount of loss for the most powerful war machine on the planet. Furthermore, if the US were to drop the war today, no Afghani troops or planes would carry the fight to America in any way different than the way they are now, terrorism. I have to agree with Rumsfeld's assessment that if it came down to world war III, Iraq and Taiwan become the real fronts. That, of course, assumes the traditional enemies. As resources become tighter and politics become more heated, America becomes easier and easier to blame - for any nation.

 

[BigJim]

We've been talking about the possibility of a third world war for years. Each time, there's been plenty of stuff to raise the level of concern. However, since weapons of mass destruction are now a commonality, I think we're "safer". Why? Because each country knows that the others have and will respond with nukes. So, they don't want to give them a reason to do it. In that respect, nukes are a deterent.

Ann

I'd like to think that was the case Ann, but an Episode of Blackadder springs to mind..........

Blackradder, Baldrick and George are sitting in the dugout. Captain Blackadder has a pair of underpants on his head and a pencil up either nostril in preparation for his plan for General Melchett to send him home because of insanity.Lieutenant George is quietly reflective and Private Baldrick wants to ask a question.........

Baldrick: Permission to ask a question sir?

Blackadder: Permission granted Baldrick. As long as it's not the one about where babies comes from.

Baldrick: Well sir the way I see it, these days there's a war on right? And ages ago, there wasn't a war on right? So there must have been a point where there not being a war on went away, and there being a war on came along. So, what I want to know is.............. How did we get from the one case of affairs, to the second case of affairs?

Blackadder: (looking world-weary and confused) Do you mean, how did the war start?

Baldrick: (beaming happily) Yeah!

George: The war started Baldrick, because of the vile Hun, and his villainous empire building!

Blackadder: George the British Empire at present covers a quarter of the globe, wheras the German Empire consists of a small sausage factory in Tanganika. I hardly think we can be entirely absolved from blame of the imperialistic front.

George: Oh no, of course not sir, absoloutley not! (Looking at Baldrick and circling a finger to his temple) Mad as a bicycle!

Blackadder: The real reason the war started, was because it was just too much trouble, not to have a war.

George: By gum this is interesting. I always loved history, Henry the Eighth and his six knives and all that.

Blackadder: You see in order to prevent war in Europe, two huge superblocks developed. Us, the French and the Russians on one side and Germany and Austria-Hungary on the other. The idea was to have two vast opposing armies, each acting as the others deterrant. That way, there could never be a war.

Baldrick: But this is a sort of a war, isn't it sir?

Blackadder: Yes it is. You see there was a tiiiinnnnnny flaw in the plan.

George: What flaw was that sir?

Blackadder: It was bollocks!

😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

 

[tkrexx]

With the politics of war, it's easy to forget the plain folks embroiled in all this...and sad, too, for it's the plain folks who will eventually be fighting these wars, on BOTH sides...or on ALL sides, however the case may be.

20 years ago I became a US Marine during the Iran hostage situation. Back then we were all sure it was Iraq's Ayatolla-run neighbor who would cause the next world war, and we didn't know whose side the Russians were on...They didn't particularly care for the Iranians either. I was ready, mentally and physically, for the possibilty of war, even tho as a Marine I would be in the forefront of any conflict.

Things are a little different today. Different antagonists, yes...Different tactics used by the antagonists, yes...Different goals and different consequences, true...And many different, horrible ways to kill your antagonists. But that's not what I mean when I say things are different now. Now it will be my son who will possibly be in the forefront of any armed conflict on foriegn or domestic soil. This changes the whole world. I don't see war the way I did when I was 20. All I see is the chance that an 18-year emotional investment can be taken from me for the whims of people who are NOT plain folks. I find this unacceptable.

In a perfect world, the plain folks would be in charge.

Rxx

 

[coolman]

lol i love blackadder.

if the yanks help taiwan it could turn into Vietnam Mark II, which no one would want.

 

[Neutron]

Ignorance

How the hell could Taiwan be another Vietnam? In the first place Taiwan is firmly our ally and WE have a defense pact with them,

Secondly it wouldn't be a guerilla war. It'd be over in 3 months max. We'd bury the Chinese.

Thirdly there would be a definite national policy and will to win.


LEARN your history. 🙁

The world is an American colony. It's about time they learned it.

Tron

 

[red indian]

Ignorance indeed!!!!

Since when does the fact the U.S. have a pact with someone mean anything? I can think of some guys much closer to home who would find that rather a sick joke as they look down from the big wigwam in the sky....LEARN your history Neutron.

 

[shark]

Americans are often chastised for being ignorant of foreign peoples and cultures.From reading this thread and the one about Iraq,it is obvious that certain foreign parties are at LEAST as ignorant of American culture and history as we are perceived to be of theirs.
I'll stop here to save the moderators the effort of editing the post.What I would really like to say will be edited.

 

[ShiningIce]

Amen, Red

 

[Haltickling]

I second your statement, Red!

 

[Deleted member 2452]

who to jump on first...

red you sound like a scratched, warped, distorted, broken record.
geez dude, get a new line huh? and before you chuck another bit o'granite maybe you should look at your own history in india, south africa, rhodesia, egypt, australia...shall i continue?

shinning ice, i really thought you were changing, re-thinking your values. i see i was mistaken. i'm saddened. listen take some advise; forget joining the american military. it's the biggest "rah rah for our side" place you could find. YOU obviously won't fit in there, and will not like it, and won't be accepted.

and to the fellow who said taiwan would be another viet nam; the same was said about iraq (part1) and afganistan. and haza! their not! taiwan will be a stand up war, not a sneaky jungle action. also, as was stated, we'll have home support, and no communist subverssion at home.
steve
steve

 

[ShiningIce]

shinning ice, i really thought you were changing, re-thinking your values. i see i was mistaken. i'm saddened. listen take some advise; forget joining the american military. it's the biggest "rah rah for our side" place you could find. YOU obviously won't fit in there, and will not like it, and won't be accepted.

What in the hell are talking about???? I'm simply agreeing with the fact that pacts mean shit. And for your information I AM pro America I just dont turn a blind eye to to our mistakes and problems. I dont know where you get your facts but all the armed forces people I know (and I know alot) openly bitch about the US's problems. I guess you've been brainwashed into not recognizing America's plights its sad really

 

[shark]

Areenactor might get his impression from the same thing that I do...if there was any favorable post about the US that shining has made,I sure as hell missed it.Could somebody point it out?

 

[ShiningIce]

The US is the greatest nation on Earth! It just has alot of problems there Shark are you happy!! Thats what Ive been saying all along its just that some people dont know how to listen!! 😡 😡 😡

 

[thx10050]

Maybe I'm a bit thick-headed and all and don't see all the details to the situation and I've never been one for politics either, so all I've got to say is this: Whichever country, or countries, that the United States military goes into battle against will get severely fucked up. Even if the war is an urban war, such as in Iraq, based on what Hussein has been saying about keeping the Iraqui military in or around the cities. I don't know the overall terrain of Taiwan and I don't quite understand why we would be fighting them in the first place, but if we had to, they'd be messed up too. I realize there's a lot of nastiness out there in terms of weaponry, but I'd like to place here a speech compiled from quotes from President Bush's various speeches directed towards the terrorists:

"Attention Taliban! You are condemned. The instant the terrorists you support took over our planes, you sentenced yourselves to death. The Armed Forces of the United States are here to seek justice for our dead. Highly trained soldiers are coming to shut down once and for all Osama bin Laden's ring of terrorism, and the Taliban that supports them and their actions. Our forces are armed with state of the art military equipment. What are you using, obsolete and ineffective weaponry? Our helicopters will rain fire down upon your camps before you detect them on your radar. Our bombs are so accurate we can drop them right through your windows. Our infantry is trained for any climate and terrain on earth. United States soldiers fire with superior marksmanship and are armed with superior weapons. Surrender is your only chance of survival."

We've got a lot of nastiness at our disposal here too. I also realize that this seems like rather 'stupid' and very simple, to say the least, opinion, but it's straight up in terms of what I believe regarding the US going into full-scale war. I've no use for politics at this time, but I realize there are things wrong with the United States' foreign policy and other such things.

Anyways, I hope this made some sense in this argument/discussion, because again, it's late over here and I'm tired.

 

[BigJim]

Re: Ignorance

The world is an American colony. It's about time they learned it.

Tron

America, is a world colony. It's about time YOU learned it!

 

[shark]

shining ice

I just finished tracing back 30 pages of threads.If you can find 1 post where you said the US was the greatest nation on earth,as you have just claimed to have been saying,please point it out.

 

[BigJim]

Re: shining ice

I just finished tracing back 30 pages of threads.If you can find 1 post where you said the US was the greatest nation on earth,as you have just claimed to have been saying,please point it out.

At the risk of being brutally beaten about the face and head with a wet hallibut, for butting into someone else's argument; does he HAVE to have typed those exact words to have intimated the sentiments behind them?

 

[mabus]

Trexx, you're right. Your plan will never happen, but you are right. Lets face it, the Chinese people probably don't care about Taiwan, in Morgan Freeman's words from "Se7en," they just want to "eat cheeseburgers, play the lotto, and watch TV. And tickle all the beautiful Chinese girls who wear those wonderful pantyhose..." Okay, he didn't say the second part, but Morgan Freeman, Brad Pitt, and David Fincher are all cool, and they probably had to cut that part out. It will be in the Director's cut.

Oh, and thx10050, we won't be fighting Taiwan, we will be fighting China. We have a treaty with Taiwan, they are our friends, so we will protect them. (Same reason we defend Israel) Communist China wants Taiwan to be communist and under their rule, however. Taiwan is too small to fight off big ass China, so we will help them fight them off.

Now, the GOVERNMENT of China wants Taiwan. I don't know any Chinese people, but I doubt they care a wit about controlling Taiwan.

The Iraqi people probably want some bread on their table and some medicine like aspirin to cure the headache from worrying about if their loved ones will come home in a body bag because they laughed at Saddam's mustache.

The people of most of the nations of the world only want freedom and liberty and happiness, and the occasional bare or pantyhose clad foot to tickle to spread that happiness. The leaders want control and power. They don't give a damn about tickling, either. That's life, and it sucks.

Rush Limbaugh tells how he admires the regular everyday American (or any other citizen of any other nation on Earth) who goes to work everyday, loves their family, and trys to help their fellow man, all the while receiving no recognition. Those are the people who make the nation great. I couldn't agree more.