Young adults and being sexually responsible [slight rant]

[Icycle]

No. I do agree, absolutely. But I think I was sort of a pioneer in those days, especially for the times. My friends always teased me for being so vigilant. No one worried about getting AIDs in early 80s. It was still a "****** disease."
(I do not and never have felt that way, for the record.) I'm not sure if life is considered less precious or young people just feel so stupidly invincible. I'm not sure which is more dangerous.
XOXO

I think that part of the problem is that older people perceive AIDS to be a deadly scourge, while the younger generation is growing up in an era where AIDS treatments are widely available and successful, so they may perceive AIDS as a managable medical condition, like diabetes. Why bother with a rubber when you can cure (or at least treat) anything you might catch?

 

[steph]

This is possibility. Me, I never minded condoms. I do wonder if people like Magic who don't have to "settle" for FDA approved modern medicine might have done more harm than good w/regards to frightening kids into playing safe. Patients who have been HIV+ for 20 years cross my doorstep all the time. That would have been considered impossible in the 80s...
XOXO

I think that part of the problem is that older people perceive AIDS to be a deadly scourge, while the younger generation is growing up in an era where AIDS treatments are widely available and successful, so they may perceive AIDS as a managable medical condition, like diabetes. Why bother with a rubber when you can cure (or at least treat) anything you might catch?

 

[Tickle Fiend]

I think that part of the problem is that older people perceive AIDS to be a deadly scourge, while the younger generation is growing up in an era where AIDS treatments are widely available and successful, so they may perceive AIDS as a managable medical condition, like diabetes. Why bother with a rubber when you can cure (or at least treat) anything you might catch?

I doubt that's the case. For me, that's a reason to not have sex. I definently don't want to get AIDS and I know no one else wants to. I just think most young people don't think about it at all.

 

[isabeau]

I doubt that's the case. For me, that's a reason to not have sex. I definently don't want to get AIDS and I know no one else wants to. I just think most young people don't think about it at all.

it's the "this can't happen to me" syndrome....and it doesn't have to be only limited to the young...heck why do you think i continued to smoke? to ignore my surgery? everyone to a point thinks that no way can this happen to them.. it's called being reckless..but people will continue to think that way, myself included....

 

[AffectionateDan]

Kids will be kids. You can't teach someone to not be an irresponsible dumbass... either you grow up and accept responsibility for the choices you make, or you're an immature chowderhead and prolly always will be making excuses for your screwups. I have a funny story along these very lines. The first time I ever had unprotected sex, which was only my second or third time at bat, the whole time we were at it, all I could think about was the possibility that I was about to knock her up and ruin both of our lives before we even graduated freakin' high school. It scared me enough that I didn't let myself finish. I pulled out and cuddled with her instead, and she never knew. But that was a choice I made, so you can't tell me that one just gets carried away in the heat of the moment and can't help it. I call bull pie on that one. What are ya gonna do, though?

I agree.

Although vasectomy is my favorite form of birth control.

Just kidding 😀

Heh... mine too. Certainly helps with spontaneity when the mood and setting are suddenly "just right". But I have to disagree with those naysayers who insist that condoms reduce overall sensation, and thereby overall pleasure. I see their biggest crawback as being that they're a titanic pain in the ass. As far as reducing sensation, if you find that to be the case, isn't that a GOOD thing? I mean, all the jokes about sexual prowess and guys who last 30 seconds in the sack and thinking about baseball so you can hold off orgasm and last longer? Personally, I've never felt the difference whilst wearing one, but if you're feeling the friction less, then you're apt to last longer and pleasure your partner more times, guys. Give her more bang for her buck, so to speak. It's always been my personal philosophy to get the lady to "win" as many times as she can before I do.

 

[chicago]

I mean the abortions aren't hurting the male or female, as long as they're performed successfully

They may not hurt the male, but they absolutely can hurt the female.

And you may think abortions are the greatest gift to promiscuous males, but you have to know that it is the female's choice whether or not she wants to have said abortion. If she doesn't want to, and you have a child on your hands, it is still your fault for creating it.

Just something to think about.

 

[Tickle Fiend]

They may not hurt the male, but they absolutely can hurt the female.

And you may think abortions are the greatest gift to promiscuous males, but you have to know that it is the female's choice whether or not she wants to have said abortion. If she doesn't want to, and you have a child on your hands, it is still your fault for creating it.
Just something to think about.

That's something I definently have a problem with. Women have abortion to bail them out of an unplanned pregnancy, but what do men have? I support a woman's right to have an abortion but I feel that men should also have an option to get them out of the pregnancy. I was reading about it on a "Men's Right's" website sometime back and I totally agreed with what was being said.

 

[chicago]

That's something I definently have a problem with. Women have abortion to bail them out of an unplanned pregnancy, but what do men have? I support a woman's right to have an abortion but I feel that men should also have an option to get them out of the pregnancy. I was reading about it on a "Men's Right's" website sometime back and I totally agreed with what was being said.

Well you can't have control over what is still part of a woman's body. And it's a shame that you're so non-challant to throw a potential fetus away with the choice of abortion, but angry if a woman would want to keep that potential fetus, potential child.

That just proves my point again. If you aren't prepared to deal with the repercussions of unsafe sex, you should do whatever it is you can to prevent those repercussions.

Abortion isn't a preventative procedure. It's an unfortunate decision one must make after having made a life-changing mistake.

 

[Tickle Fiend]

Well you can't have control over what is still part of a woman's body. And it's a shame that you're so non-challant to throw a potential fetus away with the choice of abortion, but angry if a woman would want to keep that potential fetus, potential child.

That just proves my point again. If you aren't prepared to deal with the repercussions of unsafe sex, you should do whatever it is you can to prevent those repercussions.

Abortion isn't a preventative procedure. It's an unfortunate decision one must make after having made a life-changing mistake.

I'm not angry, I'm just saying that the man should have the option to relinquish his rights to the baby. I know it sounds bad but I'm just arguing for "equality." I'm pro-choice for men. Men shouldn't be forced to have a baby because the woman wants to. There should be equal ownership and equal rights throughout the entire process.

 

[chicago]

I'm not angry, I'm just saying that the man should have the option to relinquish his rights to the baby. I know it sounds bad but I'm just arguing for "equality." I'm pro-choice for men. Men shouldn't be forced to have a baby because the woman wants to. There should be equal ownership and equal rights throughout the entire process.

Well in the ideal situation, the two adults involved would be responsible enough to make the decision together and agree on a choice.

That being said, if you're smart, you won't ever have to be in that situation.

So don't be a fool, wrap your tool.

 

[Tickle Fiend]

Well in the ideal situation, the two adults involved would be responsible enough to make the decision together and agree on a choice.

That being said, if you're smart, you won't ever have to be in that situation.

So don't be a fool, wrap your tool.

Believe me, I'll do everything possible so I won't have to make this decision until I'm ready. When I say these things I'm not saying I would do them myself. I just have no problem if another man does them.

 

[drew70]

I agree totally with Mairead who shows more maturity than many in their 20s, 30s and 40s. Her friend has earned his dumbass merit badge several times over. I think people are so cavalier about this because they are constantly hearing about "safe" sex, so much so that they associate sex with safety automatically.

I get a real kick out of these armchair doctors and wannabee psychologists who try and "scientifically" approach an issue like this...

"Scientific research shows that teenagers can't control their hormones. It's a forgone conclusion that young adults MUST have sex so we as society must bend over backwards to EDUCATE them on how do it."​

The only thing people need to know is that sex causes pregnancy, and it causes disease. Don't want pregnancy? Don't want AIDS? Well how's this for your scientific answer based on decades of medical research: DON'T FUCK! 😱

Real rocket science there, eh? 😉

 

[Goodieluver]

I'm not angry, I'm just saying that the man should have the option to relinquish his rights to the baby. I know it sounds bad but I'm just arguing for "equality." I'm pro-choice for men. Men shouldn't be forced to have a baby because the woman wants to. There should be equal ownership and equal rights throughout the entire process.

Men should also have a option to want to keep the child

 

[Tickle Fiend]

Men should also have a option to want to keep the child

That's right, they should have a choice no matter what it is.

 

[GodlessTickler]

I'm not angry, I'm just saying that the man should have the option to relinquish his rights to the baby. I know it sounds bad but I'm just arguing for "equality." I'm pro-choice for men. Men shouldn't be forced to have a baby because the woman wants to. There should be equal ownership and equal rights throughout the entire process.

I am going to have to think on this one for a bit.... my gut feeling from a logical standpoint is... no. Now obviously that's just my opinion, but here's the thing... (and I'm not going into the abortion right or wrong issue, want my opinions on that they are mostly in the p&r thread.) There can be arguments of all kinds made, about who's rights are more important, and so on and so forth, but I think everyone will agree with this much... in the process of birth, men and women are NOT equal (and shudders at the "ownership" concept by the way). But they aren't. I'm not anti man, in fact I always argue against people who try and exclude men from these discussions, but there IS a fundamental difference. The essential reason for abortion being legal is that it is the woman's body that is being physically affected.
It's hard to explain and I don't think I've reasoned it out perfectly but I kind of see it like this. The baby exists... abortion (right or wrong) gives the woman the choice NOT to have it, she doesn't have the unilateral choice TO have it. There's an important difference there. Having the baby is the natural occurrence most of the time when you don't have an abortion. So what you seem to object to is that the woman has an out and the man does not, but the problem is, she has a very fundamentally different argument to a right to an out as opposed to a man... she has the legal argument that this foreign entity is going to grow inside her, do all these things to her physically, possibly endanger her life and so forth. The man's only argument is "I don't want to have a baby" but that argument doesn't have anywhere near the kind of persuasiveness (and we don't assume the man should be able to FORCE a woman to have an abortion done I hope). There is no reason you should be able to abandon your responsibility's, the result of your freedom, just because you don't like them, or because someone else can for VERY different reasons.
Now it MAY be fundamentally unfair, that a woman can give up a baby for adoption say, and not owe child support and a man can not do that... I'd have to think on that (and check law). But the issue of your obligation to the child you created, is different from the argument that at early stages of embryonic development that fetus can be terminated. And unless I am mistaken you CAN get rid of your parental rights, it's the responsibilities (such as child support) the man can't escape. Like I said, I don't know how well thought out this is but there is a really fundamental difference.

Drew.... lol... we have been around and around with this, so I'll just say hi for now 🙂

 

[Tickle Fiend]

I am going to have to think on this one for a bit.... my gut feeling from a logical standpoint is... no. Now obviously that's just my opinion, but here's the thing... (and I'm not going into the abortion right or wrong issue, want my opinions on that they are mostly in the p&r thread.) There can be arguments of all kinds made, about who's rights are more important, and so on and so forth, but I think everyone will agree with this much... in the process of birth, men and women are NOT equal (and shudders at the "ownership" concept by the way). But they aren't. I'm not anti man, in fact I always argue against people who try and exclude men from these discussions, but there IS a fundamental difference. The essential reason for abortion being legal is that it is the woman's body that is being physically affected. It's hard to explain and I don't think I've reasoned it out perfectly but I kind of see it like this. The baby exists... abortion (right or wrong) gives the woman the choice NOT to have it, she doesn't have the unilateral choice TO have it. There's an important difference there. Having the baby is the natural occurrence most of the time when you don't have an abortion. So what you seem to object to is that the woman has an out and the man does not, but the problem is, she has a very fundamentally different argument to a right to an out as opposed to a man... she has the legal argument that this foreign entity is going to grow inside her, do all these things to her physically, possibly endanger her life and so forth. The man's only argument is "I don't want to have a baby" but that argument doesn't have anywhere near the kind of persuasiveness (and we don't assume the man should be able to FORCE a woman to have an abortion done I hope). There is no reason you should be able to abandon your responsibility's, the result of your freedom, just because you don't like them, or because someone else can for VERY different reasons.
Now it MAY be fundamentally unfair, that a woman can give up a baby for adoption say, and not owe child support and a man can not do that... I'd have to think on that (and check law). But the issue of your obligation to the child you created, is different from the argument that at early stages of embryonic development that fetus can be terminated. And unless I am mistaken you CAN get rid of your parental rights, it's the responsibilities (such as child support) the man can't escape. Like I said, I don't know how well thought out this is but there is a really fundamental difference.

Drew.... lol... we have been around and around with this, so I'll just say hi for now 🙂

I understood what you were saying. I understand the physical affects that the baby will have on the woman's body. At the same time, it's going to have an affect on that man's life once it is born, mental or physical. We're talking about 9 months vs. 18+ years. The effect that a kid would have on his life is much greater than that 9 month period, although I know she'd still be affected also. If he feels that financially he won't be able to provide for this kid, why make the kid suffer?

And when I say relinquish your parental rights, I'm talking about EVERYTHING. I remember reading about a case last year about a guy trying to completely give up his right after he impregnated someone. I don't think he won but this is an ongoing topic that just doesn't get too much light shed on it.

 

[Iggy pop]

I doubt that's the case. For me, that's a reason to not have sex. I definently don't want to get AIDS and I know no one else wants to. I just think most young people don't think about it at all.

As early as 1984, they were warnings from the media and talking heads that AIDS was going to be epidemic and tear through the hetrosexual community. It never hapened. The truth is if you are hetrosexual and non-iv drug user, the chances of you getting AIDS in the United States is very slim. Not impossible, but extremely unlikely. Now there are a lot more common sexual diseases that you are more likely to get.

 

[GodlessTickler]

I do get and respect what you are saying. But my major point, and I didn't make it very clear, was that abortion, some people feel needs to be a right. Now the man can essentially ONLY be dealing with the BORN child. No way we can say men can force abortions so all the arguments about the fetus and its limited brain and so on and so forth are IRRELEVANT, entirely. It then IS fair at this point to talk about why should a baby suffer for your mistake, and the idea you have a responsibility to the baby... before birth, the fetus at its early stages, arguments can be made, but afterworlds it really does change.
I think the fundamental thing that I'm saying (and I just realized this) is that the natural course is to have the baby... the woman... for lack of a better term has "possession" of the fetus. You can't make her have an abortion, and just because she can doesn't really yield any validity to the idea that a man should be able to get away from the consequences of his actions.
The baby is inside the woman's body when it is "in question" so to speak. The baby the man would be essentially abandoning is UNQUESTIONABLY a human baby.
I see why you think there is a relationship, I just don't think there is one.
The man isn't having a baby because the woman chooses to have the baby, he's having a baby because the man and woman had sex. The fact that she doesn't make a choice to terminate a pregnancy, is not the same thing as it being her choice to have the baby. Two different issues. She doesn't essentially have some responsibility to have an abortion is my point.

 

[Azrael]

Enough is Enough

1. Abortion is a topic for the controversial subject matter forum, if ever there was one.

2. This thread has been massively hijacked from its original subject. The topic at hand is the level of responsibility of today's (relatively) newly (and perhaps overly) sexually active youth, not abortion. People wishing to discuss abortion are cordially invited to create their own thread... in the controversial forum, please. No more "one last word" on the matter, or any such thing. Please.

 

[Redmage]

What I meant when I mentioned parents was that, they shouldn't use fear as a parenting tool. I'd much rather know what my children are doing and be able to help them, and have them be comfortable coming to me to talk, than find something out the hard way.

Well, if we're talking 20 year olds, then all of this should be moot, it seems to me. Any parenting tools should have been put away in the attic by that time - fear most of all. By that age, most of the good or ill that a parent can do for their child has already been done.

I really think most of what you're seeing comes down to the impulsive errors of judgment that are common in the 15-25 year old set. There's a time after the parents can keep children sheltered but before they're really adults when life just has to slap them around for a while, and we all just have to hope they get through it. Fortunately most of them do with just a few small scars.

 

[kis123]

I agree totally with Mairead who shows more maturity than many in their 20s, 30s and 40s. Her friend has earned his dumbass merit badge several times over. I think people are so cavalier about this because they are constantly hearing about "safe" sex, so much so that they associate sex with safety automatically.

I get a real kick out of these armchair doctors and wannabee psychologists who try and "scientifically" approach an issue like this...

"Scientific research shows that teenagers can't control their hormones. It's a forgone conclusion that young adults MUST have sex so we as society must bend over backwards to EDUCATE them on how do it."​

The only thing people need to know is that sex causes pregnancy, and it causes disease. Don't want pregnancy? Don't want AIDS? Well how's this for your scientific answer based on decades of medical research: DON'T FUCK! 😱

Real rocket science there, eh? 😉

And the people said......A-M-E-N!!!!!

I was always taught that sex came with consequences; when people have sex, they are simply agreeing to the consequences. Pregnancy, STDs, emotional trainwrecks are all consequences to having sex. If you're not ready to at least behave in a responisble manner, please keep your pants zipped and skirt on until you are!

TG, your friend is simply crazy; how many more times does he think he can go to the well before it dries out? You can't continue to gamble with your body; eventually you will lose.

 

[Strider]

Red was correct to say that after a certain point, young adults just need to be out on their own and get smacked in the face by reality a bit. What I see as a problem is when people get smacked by reality numerous times and still don't grow up and moderate their behavior. And perhaps this is just my imagination, but I do think that type of mentality is somewhat more prevalant in my generation than the ones preceeding it. Why this is, I don't know, but it's what I see.

 

[Tickle Fiend]

I do get and respect what you are saying. But my major point, and I didn't make it very clear, was that abortion, some people feel needs to be a right. Now the man can essentially ONLY be dealing with the BORN child. No way we can say men can force abortions so all the arguments about the fetus and its limited brain and so on and so forth are IRRELEVANT, entirely. It then IS fair at this point to talk about why should a baby suffer for your mistake, and the idea you have a responsibility to the baby... before birth, the fetus at its early stages, arguments can be made, but afterworlds it really does change.
I think the fundamental thing that I'm saying (and I just realized this) is that the natural course is to have the baby... the woman... for lack of a better term has "possession" of the fetus. You can't make her have an abortion, and just because she can doesn't really yield any validity to the idea that a man should be able to get away from the consequences of his actions.
The baby is inside the woman's body when it is "in question" so to speak. The baby the man would be essentially abandoning is UNQUESTIONABLY a human baby.
I see why you think there is a relationship, I just don't think there is one.
The man isn't having a baby because the woman chooses to have the baby, he's having a baby because the man and woman had sex. The fact that she doesn't make a choice to terminate a pregnancy, is not the same thing as it being her choice to have the baby. Two different issues. She doesn't essentially have some responsibility to have an abortion is my point.

When people have abortions it's usually because they feel they aren't ready. If the male feel he isn't ready, I think the female owes it to the baby at least to think about abortion. Abortion isn't the only option, adoption could always be used. There is no need to force someone into parenthood if they aren't ready to or capable of taking care of that kid. They chose to have sex, but people mkae mistakes and need to be bailed out sometimes.

 

[GodlessTickler]

When people have abortions it's usually because they feel they aren't ready. If the male feel he isn't ready, I think the female owes it to the baby at least to think about abortion. Abortion isn't the only option, adoption could always be used. There is no need to force someone into parenthood if they aren't ready to or capable of taking care of that kid. They chose to have sex, but people mkae mistakes and need to be bailed out sometimes.

Well to keep it simple... if you are talking about discussion that is one thing. But I can't imagine any way that it could have any legal weight. Abortion by vote? Abortion by... court? Abortion by a moderator? I assume you see what I am saying.
Now if you say that should the mother chose to keep the baby, that the father can get out of child support or what have you, then you are essentially PUNISHING someone for not having an abortion, because now she is burdened with MORE than her fair share of the responsibility.
It is one thing to say abolition is ok, it is a VERY different thing to punish someone for not having one, or make it the expected choice.

 

[Iggy pop]

I agree totally with Mairead who shows more maturity than many in their 20s, 30s and 40s. Her friend has earned his dumbass merit badge several times over. I think people are so cavalier about this because they are constantly hearing about "safe" sex, so much so that they associate sex with safety automatically.

I get a real kick out of these armchair doctors and wannabee psychologists who try and "scientifically" approach an issue like this...

"Scientific research shows that teenagers can't control their hormones. It's a forgone conclusion that young adults MUST have sex so we as society must bend over backwards to EDUCATE them on how do it."​

The only thing people need to know is that sex causes pregnancy, and it causes disease. Don't want pregnancy? Don't want AIDS? Well how's this for your scientific answer based on decades of medical research: DON'T FUCK! 😱

Real rocket science there, eh? 😉

Car accidents killed 42,636 in 2005. Someone dies every 13 minutes in car crash in the United States. An additional 2.9 million people were injured. If we get rid of cars then we could end all this pain and death. This, however, is an extremist view. Just like the one stated above. The truth is you can have sex relatively safely. Can you eliminate all risks? No, but it is still probably safer than driving to work in your automobile in most cities.