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Bret Vs. Shawn – The Morality Match

If that is an established truth, then it's a fucking disgrace that Vince was never charged with industrial manslaughter, or whatever the American quivalent of it is.

The WWE did have charges brought against them, but after Diana and Ellie Hart sold out the family in an effort to get Davy and Jim work (by faxing McMahon information they found in their mothers office) Martha decided to setle out of court. She gave some of the awarded money to Stu and Helen, but I would suggest no amount would be good enough.

There is more, but I can't recall all the details. I know Vince was suing Martha for something, and their is a clause in WWE wrestlers contracts that they can not sue for liabilitybecuase all the cases are tried in Coneticat witch doesn't pay out for Liability (or something like that).

Read Bret's book if you can find it.
 
The WWE did have charges brought against them, but after Diana and Ellie Hart sold out the family in an effort to get Davy and Jim work (by faxing McMahon information they found in their mothers office) Martha decided to setle out of court. She gave some of the awarded money to Stu and Helen, but I would suggest no amount would be good enough.

There is more, but I can't recall all the details. I know Vince was suing Martha for something, and their is a clause in WWE wrestlers contracts that they can not sue for liabilitybecuase all the cases are tried in Coneticat witch doesn't pay out for Liability (or something like that).

Read Bret's book if you can find it.


Any case Martha Hart would have bought would have been a civil case, not a criminal prosecution. Any potential criminal prosecution would have been soley the responsibility of the official system to bring and would have been seperate to her suing Vince for compensation.

I doubt such a contractual clause would have applied post mortem. The moment Owen died, he ceased to be bound by such things, I imagine. In that case, I would guess any civil prosecution brought by his wife would have had to be done in the location of the accident. I don't know where that was off the top of my head, but I do know it wasn't Connecticut.
 
Any case Martha Hart would have bought would have been a civil case, not a criminal prosecution. Any potential criminal prosecution would have been solely the responsibility of the official system to bring and would have been separate to her suing Vince for compensation.

I doubt such a contractual clause would have applied post mortem. The moment Owen died, he ceased to be bound by such things, I imagine. In that case, I would guess any civil prosecution brought by his wife would have had to be done in the location of the accident. I don't know where that was off the top of my head, but I do know it wasn't Connecticut.

Ah, that's the word I was looking for, Civil. Connecticut doesn't pay out for Civil comp, and because of an accident that crippled a wrestler named Austin (not Stone Cold) who was severely injured in a match with the Rockers, McMahon had it put in everybody contracts. Your argument is the same one Martha's Lawyer made, and the event actually happened in KC.

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Why on earth doesn't CT have a system whereby people can bring a suit for industrial negligence? That sounds fucked up to me.

Even more fucked up is that American law gives so little a shit about it's people that it allows someone like McMahon to incllude such a clause into their contracts without making it illegal, because it's blatant exploitation.
 
Why on earth doesn't CT have a system whereby people can bring a suit for industrial negligence? That sounds fucked up to me.

Even more fucked up is that American law gives so little a shit about it's people that it allows someone like McMahon to include such a clause into their contracts without making it illegal, because it's blatant exploitation.

Hey he's owns WWE, and he's bought WCW, ECW, and (I think) the AWA. Doesn't that qualify as a monopoly some how? Where is the SCC on this one?
 
Ummm..... you are aware that wrestling is scripted, right? Assuming you aren't, here's a few pointers.


1/ Bret himself admits that he was lacking in the charisma stakes, having less mic ability and so on than many others like Shawn, Hulk etc. He was however, in good physical condition for a guy who was only six foot one, and contrary to your opinion (which you are of course entitled to) is universally acclaimed as one of the greatest workers and story tellers in wrestling history. Vince himself puts Bret second only to Buddy Rogers in that regard.

2/ Bret is, I admit, not one for what he probably thinks of as false modesty. He genuinely believes that he was a consumate professional in that he didn't miss more than one town in nearly a decade and a half and only caused about two accidental injuries to colleagues in his entire career.

3/ After Wrestlemania he was actually "gone" for about six months, not a year. And in that time he still worked foreign tours for the WWF, he just wasn't doing regular TV work.
Until Wrestlemania 12 he had been working constantly since before Wrestlemania 1, so he had been working three hundred days a year for more than twelve years. Considering most wrestlers go between four and six years before taking that sort of amount of time off, I hardly think Bret can be blamed for doing so and it sounds rather silly when someone tries to.

4/ Bret's cockiness and sniping at Shawn: On his return he was supposed to work a program with Shawn (after Shawn finished his run with Sid). It would have involved Shawn first putting him over (at Wrestlemania 13) and then Bret putting him back over around the time of Survivor series (there's irony for you). After an absence of six months from the TV shows, if Bret hadn't been trying to get heat on Shawn during his time off, there would have been zero intrest at the start of the run, which would have been a financial blowout for the company. Why the hell wouldn't he have been critiscising Shawn? Again I ask, you do realise this is all scripted right?

5/ Bitching and moaning/anti-US: You do realise this is all scripted, right? I'm beginning to seriously wonder.
Bret actually found the whole angle rather absurd, though fun at times when he was in Canada. He found it so because he's actually half American and half Canadian. His mother is from New York and he carries a United States passport.
The angle where he turned against America was due entiirely to the fact that the crowds were beginningt o cheer people like Austin and boo characters like his. The fans themselves became inadvertantly involved in the scripts of the WWF.

6/ Shawn was an amazing worker yes. I don't personally believe he was as good as Bret, because he was a snidey little two-faced bastard on a number of levels. He was certainly more FLASH BANG than Bret, but that doesn't make him "better". Just a different type of worker.

7/ Bret himself says Owen was the most gifted Hart family wrestler.

8/ D-X not taking themselves seriously. I'm assuming you mean on-screen. Behind the scenes Shawn, Levesque, NAsh, Waltman and Hall tried to turn the WWF into what WCW eventually became: a clique of selfish wankers who pushed themselves and each other at the expense of everyone else and stifled new talent. And we all remember how great WCW turned out, don't we? They were worth a paltry five hundred thousand dollars when Vince bought them out, compared to the WWF which was worth more than a billion. That is not not taking themselves seriously. The best thing that ever happened to the company was when Waltman, Hall and Nash fucked off to Turnerland and took their repellant philosophy with them.

What, wrestling's scripted? No way! Next you're going to tell me that there's no Santa Claus, or that Elvis is really dead! Of course I know wrestlings scripted. Everybody w/an IQ above 70 knows that. I still think Hart was an incredibly boring in ring performer. He was slow predictable, not as technically proficient as he claims(He was certainly no Dean Malenko, or William Regal, in his prime). Even HBK who was known for his high flying style, was also a better ground technician IMHO.
As far as his anti-US whining, yeah it was and it wasn't scripted. From what I understand, MacMahon wanted Hart to become a heel, but Hart was the one who came up w/the American bashing angle. Hart even mentioned during an interview, he had creative input into his character, meaning he had more influence on his in ring persona than other most other performers. And turning on the crowd because they were cheering Austin? Who cares? Be a man, grow a pair and don't let the booing get to you. Ric Flair was booed for years, you never heard him whine about it like Bret.
Sniping at Michaels? I'm sorry that started long before Shawn refused to "put Hart over" after beating Psycho Sid. I remember before the Wrestlemania Iron Man match where Hart was making fun of Shawns injuries, and concussion that he suffered when he was jumped by some thugs outside a bar in Syracuse(which BTW was NOT scripted in case you didn't know). Hart was ridiculing Shawn saying he was "beaten up by 6 cheerleaders" and said nobody in Syracuse would've been tough enough to that to him. Classy statement Hitman. On several occasions Bret took cheap shots at HBK even before he returned to the WWF, and before the s*** really hit the fan.
So to answer your question again, YES I know wrestlings scripted. But based on Hart's delusional statements in the past, I'm not sure the Hitman knows it.
 
What, wrestling's scripted? No way! Next you're going to tell me that there's no Santa Claus, or that Elvis is really dead! Of course I know wrestlings scripted. Everybody w/an IQ above 70 knows that. I still think Hart was an incredibly boring in ring performer. He was slow predictable, not as technically proficient as he claims(He was certainly no Dean Malenko, or William Regal, in his prime). Even HBK who was known for his high flying style, was also a better ground technician IMHO.
As far as his anti-US whining, yeah it was and it wasn't scripted. From what I understand, MacMahon wanted Hart to become a heel, but Hart was the one who came up w/the American bashing angle. Hart even mentioned during an interview, he had creative input into his character, meaning he had more influence on his in ring persona than other most other performers. And turning on the crowd because they were cheering Austin? Who cares? Be a man, grow a pair and don't let the booing get to you. Ric Flair was booed for years, you never heard him whine about it like Bret.
Sniping at Michaels? I'm sorry that started long before Shawn refused to "put Hart over" after beating Psycho Sid. I remember before the Wrestlemania Iron Man match where Hart was making fun of Shawns injuries, and concussion that he suffered when he was jumped by some thugs outside a bar in Syracuse(which BTW was NOT scripted in case you didn't know). Hart was ridiculing Shawn saying he was "beaten up by 6 cheerleaders" and said nobody in Syracuse would've been tough enough to that to him. Classy statement Hitman. On several occasions Bret took cheap shots at HBK even before he returned to the WWF, and before the s*** really hit the fan.
So to answer your question again, YES I know wrestlings scripted. But based on Hart's delusional statements in the past, I'm not sure the Hitman knows it.


Well, all I can say is that you fooled me. Nothing happens outside of the Gorilla Position that isn’t scripted, unless the wrestler in question is fired the very next day for fucking the business around, as happened to Paul Roma (although Bret himself dropped one shoot line during the WM 13 main event – which you could argue wasn’t professional, even if it would have been thoroughly justified behind the scenes).

Bret, contrary to whatever bullshit you’ve fallen for, was turned on the crowd because wrestling fans changed their opinions. (Which is what ushered in the Attitude Era – anti-heroes like Austin and Mohammed Ali-alike trash talkers like The Rock were forcibly turned face). “Clean” heroes fell out of fashion. He was forcibly turned heel in the same fashion as Austin and Johnson went the other way.

I think, by and large, any further discussion between us is rather pointless. You obviously believe far more of this shit is shooting than it actually is (Bret has made several remarks OOC in various interviews and documentaries saying he found some of his lines in the anti-American stuff to be rather bizarre and illogical) and you’re coming across like a complete Shawn fanboy. I don’t deny Bret made several “real” criticisms of Shawn, but last time I heard that wasn’t against the law, nor was it unjustified. Shawn has been described by several wrestlers as an unmitigated prick on a number of occasions.
I know nothing about the concussion incident you’re speaking of, but if it’s as you describe (I’m assuming at this point that it’s a separate occasion to the time he got smacked around by the marines for trying to shag one of their girlfriends?) then personally, I wouldn’t have made them. That, in my opinion, means I’m not a fanboy myself. I’m not blind to genuine criticisms.
 
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