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2012- What will happen on 12/21???

That's a quote from the movie called The Dead Zone. The Dead Zone says nothing about starting the so-called rapture. 😉
 
yeah i know about the problems with lightspeed travel, ANNDDDD you left out relativity purp ; ) but its certainly possible to find a loophole in science that lets you bypass the third dimension, we havent even begun to understand quantum physics. If aliens do exist I heard they have figured out how too manipulate gravity and use it to their advantage. Im not the most scientific guy by any means, but considering the weakness of gravity in comparison to magnetic force yet the former holding the universe together as far as we know, somethings not right.
 
hxckid said:
yeah i know about the problems with lightspeed travel, ANNDDDD you left out relativity purp ; ) but its certainly possible to find a loophole in science that lets you bypass the third dimension, we havent even begun to understand quantum physics. If aliens do exist I heard they have figured out how too manipulate gravity and use it to their advantage. Im not the most scientific guy by any means, but considering the weakness of gravity in comparison to magnetic force yet the former holding the universe together as far as we know, somethings not right.
Click to expand...

I didn't "leave out" anything. I explained everything about that between this post and the "batshit insane" post. I am nothing, if not meticulous. As I mentioned, the velocities you need to make interstellar travel ""feasible"" are physically impossible. As in, you would need to have a ship that is constantly gaining density as you increase speed; and you would also die from such forces. You would be.... ""compressed"", very neatly, by such force. 😉

As for aliens coming to earth, I don't even know where to begin grinding that argument into a fine powder. You can't "manipulate" gravity, as it is not a particle. Gravity is simply the curvature of space-time around an object with mass. The reason gravity "holds the universe" together in sufficient relation to the EM force is because there's simply a lot of mass to work with. You need something on the order of 80x the mass of Jupiter to collapse matter into a small star and begin fusing. Our sun is much bigger and denser than that. If you were to construct a graph representing percentage of mass attributed to all the bodies in the solar system, the sun holdse around 99% of it.

This is how a star works: The EM force keeps atoms together, but also deflects them and keeps them spaced just far enough away when they come within close enough proximity to each other. This prevents all the matter in the entire universe from exploding in violent nuclear blasts. The reason for this is simple: The EM force is supremely stronger than the force of gravity; and with only a few atoms - or even just a few quadrillion atoms, it is still stronger than gravity. Gravity makes objects want to collapse into each other and fuse, but since the EM force is so much stronger, it won't allow it until you have sufficient mass (80x the mass of Jupiter) collapsing together.

Stars are born out of gas clouds made up mostly of hydrogen that compress from one force or another. Most often, this is from the force of a nearby star exploding. The pressure of such massive objects forces hydrogen atoms into each other at the core, fusing into helium; and thus a star is born.

The reason it doesn't wildly explode out of control and destroy itself the instant it's born is because of gravity holding it all together.

-----

Let's say for the sake of argument, a race of aliens figured out how to violate the first law of thermodynamics and create matter to manipulate gravity. They can simply flip a switch and create an object with such density that it curves space-time so extremely that it allows for a warp drive to be possible. A warp drive of sufficient power would defeat the speed of light limit, as well as getting around the problem of time dilation. The instant they do this however; the machine, along with the lab, and the rest of the planet, and half the solar system, are violently compressed into a singularity (black hole), and destroyed instantly.
 
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purp your assuming the nature of gravity, the thing about gravity is that we dont understand it yet, some people think its merely a variation of the EM field, others think that it draws on some sub atomic source, I agree with the speed of light as an impossibility for space travel because of the infinite mass and energy thing, however there are afew theories on how "Warp" is possible. One theory is that one could actually warp the space ahead and behind him, causing the space behind him to contract, while the point in front of him expands essentially pushing someone from point A to point B using the space around you instead of actually traveling. you seem to be the enlightened buddhist sage of science though, but there are points that even the top scientists dont understand so I think its rather arrogant of you to just say something is "impossible" or give exact data on what would happen in a hypothetical, the truth is you dont know until someone tries it, you have data to draw conclusions upon but nothing is 100% especially when it comes to interstellar travel, i may not be a science major but I know that much at least.
 
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And somewhere on a quantum physics forum, scientists are sitting around debating whether or nor feet are more ticklish with or without nylons.
 
hxckid said:
purp your assuming the nature of gravity, the thing about gravity is that we dont understand it yet, some people think its merely a variation of the EM field, others think that it draws on some sub atomic source, I agree with the speed of light as an impossibility for space travel because of the infinite mass and energy thing, however there are afew theories on how "Warp" is possible. One theory is that one could actually warp the space ahead and behind him, causing the space behind him to contract, while the point in front of him expands essentially pushing someone from point A to point B using the space around you instead of actually traveling. you seem to be the enlightened buddhist sage of science though, but there are points that even the top scientists dont understand so I think its rather arrogant of you to just say something is "impossible" or give exact data on what would happen in a hypothetical, the truth is you dont know until someone tries it, you have data to draw conclusions upon but nothing is 100% especially when it comes to interstellar travel, i may not be a science major but I know that much at least.
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We understand gravity on the scale of using it to calculate the distance of stars (gravitational lensing) in addition to measuring their light wavelength. I would say that gives us a keep insight into the effects of gravity. Thank you, Albert Einstein. The one thing missing from the equation is what holds galaxies together - this is presumed to be "dark matter", which is basically a fancy name for a mathematical equation they added to explain galaxies not ripping themselves apart. It is purely hypothetical at this point; the reason it's called "dark" matter is because there is no detectable radiation for it, but we clearly observe that galaxies are stable, so there is an observed effect.

Before you say anything, please don't postulate that "dark matter might be the key to warp travel" - because first it's hypothetical, and it is observed to be a function exclusively useful on a galactic scale. If you were to begin massing matter on the galactic scale, you'd have a much larger and dense object than the already hypothetical super-dense spaceship that instantly implodes and collapses into a black hole. :lol

Again, when you get to the scale of gravity where you can contract/expand space, you are dealing with masses that are inherently too heavy. This is a function of stars and black holes. It is exclusive to objects that are too massive to be safe for humans. I've heard all these theories before, and again, they are not scientifically feasible.

In order to understand gravity, it has to be measured in some way. The only way we know to measure it is by it's effects on objects with inertia. Gravity does not give off particles or any kind of detectable radiation. At all.

With that in mind, such ideas about our understanding of gravity being wrong is akin to saying top level universities like Harvard, Oxford, Yale, Cambridge, etc are all wrong. The knowledge about objects in space has been tested and refined over hundreds of years. If you want to argue against that, you'll need to bring a little more weight than "well you could be wrong". I'd want to see some published peer review literature (that didn't get verbally eviscerated), or even at the very least, a wikipedia article that has credible citations.
 
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every 26,000 years the earth has a major shift. Moon acts as a magnet. On december 21, 2012, at some point during that day, the earth, moon, and sun as well as the other planets will be aligned perfect from the northern poles within the galactic plain. The galactic plain basically is the milkyway. This plain of course has a large energy field that increases magnetic field. and because the earth and moon will be alligned at the norther poles, it will cause an earthly wobble. This in return will make the earth shift a bit. For example, 26,000 years ago, much of new england including Vermont, New Hampshire, and areas of New York were all underwater, about 50,000 years ago, those areas were giant glaciers. around 75,000 years ago, the area was at one point considered the north pole. How is this known? cause fossils tell the stories. In vermont, whale bones and fossils have been found at the top green mountains of mout mansfield and others. These have been carbon dated to be hundreds of thousdands of years old.

In short, new england will be more towards where north carolina is. Florida will be where brazil is. and ect.
 
Gilbert said:
every 26,000 years the earth has a major shift. Moon acts as a magnet. On december 21, 2012, at some point during that day, the earth, moon, and sun as well as the other planets will be aligned perfect from the northern poles within the galactic plain. The galactic plain basically is the milkyway. This plain of course has a large energy field that increases magnetic field. and because the earth and moon will be alligned at the norther poles, it will cause an earthly wobble. This in return will make the earth shift a bit. For example, 26,000 years ago, much of new england including Vermont, New Hampshire, and areas of New York were all underwater, about 50,000 years ago, those areas were giant glaciers. around 75,000 years ago, the area was at one point considered the north pole. How is this known? cause fossils tell the stories. In vermont, whale bones and fossils have been found at the top green mountains of mout mansfield and others. These have been carbon dated to be hundreds of thousdands of years old.

In short, new england will be more towards where north carolina is. Florida will be where brazil is. and ect.
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http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/bsf2-1.php

You will notice three things if you read the NASA article:

-There is no talk of magnets.
-There is no talk of 2012.
-The precession is over 26,000 years, not once every 26,000 years.

I realize it's a space flight article, but it pertains directly to your disinformation.

The phrases "carbon dating" and "hundreds of thousands of years" are mutually exclusive in science. Carbon dating is a specific form of radiometric dating that is no good beyond 50,000-70,000 years. Carbon dating is used specifically for dating man-made objects and measuring the ages of civilizations. Not fossils, or rocks. You use argon-argon dating for rocks.
 
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PurpleStyle said:
A favorite author and favorite book. Well said. 😉

But that leaves me with a ridiculous question to ask: how does one "make" the rapture happen? 😉
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How does one "make" a rapture happen you ask? Depends how symbolically you wanna take it....

Best way to travel among the stars is by uploading your mind or a digital copy thereof into a suitable vessel- NOT carting the meat around (I like the term "canned primates") I've read that any simulation accurate to the Planck Constant is indistinguishable from reality by ANY scientific means- which means a digital copy of yourself living in a simulated world aboard a space probe is as much a valid individual life as your meat-self.

So...millions of people, billions, maybe more than are physically alive on Earth could leave this planet and go off wherever, living out their lives at any subjective rate of speed (a day is as a thousand years???) in a perfect "Matrix"-like simulated world, possibly forever- could that be considered a "new heavens and a new earth"??? Could THAT be considered a "rapture"?
 
See Halo for perfect example...

Slaver123 said:
How does one "make" a rapture happen you ask? Depends how symbolically you wanna take it....

Best way to travel among the stars is by uploading your mind or a digital copy thereof into a suitable vessel- NOT carting the meat around (I like the term "canned primates") I've read that any simulation accurate to the Planck Constant is indistinguishable from reality by ANY scientific means- which means a digital copy of yourself living in a simulated world aboard a space probe is as much a valid individual life as your meat-self.

So...millions of people, billions, maybe more than are physically alive on Earth could leave this planet and go off wherever, living out their lives at any subjective rate of speed (a day is as a thousand years???) in a perfect "Matrix"-like simulated world, possibly forever- could that be considered a "new heavens and a new earth"??? Could THAT be considered a "rapture"?
Click to expand...

What I meant was some Zealot with access to technology capable of making us all into radioactive ash-piles is probably watchong one of those countdown-by-the-second- clocks to 2012.
In Halo, the Covenant Aliens believed that this thing; Halo, was a gateway to Zion, Heaven, paradise/purgatory of your choice, when in actuality it was a massive orbiting Weapons platform, capable of cleaning out a Galaxy.

Having established that, does 'The missles are flying, hallelujah, hallelujah' scare anyone NOW?
 
Maybe we'll all be made into zealots- we'll be brainwashed so that blasting parts of the Galaxy to dust will become our hearts true desire.... With our new bodies we'll orgasm EVERY TIME WE PULL THE TRIGGER at an enemy...

Wouldn't that seem like Paradise???
 
Has anyone considered that maybe the Mayans never got the chance to invent a "leap year" adjustment? Just because a calendar ends does not mean so does the world. Did the world also begin with the invention of said calendar?

Everybody has their self appointed end of the world date. The jehovas witnesses up the street from me set it a 9/9/09. It seems everytime some numerical alliteration occurs on a date, the apocalypse is bound to occur. But a calendar date is just an abitrary point on the earth's orbit. Just like how 0 degrees longitude was put where it is by the british.
 
Slaver123 said:
How does one "make" a rapture happen you ask? Depends how symbolically you wanna take it....

Best way to travel among the stars is by uploading your mind or a digital copy thereof into a suitable vessel- NOT carting the meat around (I like the term "canned primates") I've read that any simulation accurate to the Planck Constant is indistinguishable from reality by ANY scientific means- which means a digital copy of yourself living in a simulated world aboard a space probe is as much a valid individual life as your meat-self.

So...millions of people, billions, maybe more than are physically alive on Earth could leave this planet and go off wherever, living out their lives at any subjective rate of speed (a day is as a thousand years???) in a perfect "Matrix"-like simulated world, possibly forever- could that be considered a "new heavens and a new earth"??? Could THAT be considered a "rapture"?
Click to expand...
Very interesting concept. I like that.

Indistinguishable yes on the planck constant, but that still leaves the problem of having a species that will die out eventually due to the earth heating to the point where the oceans boil and human life cannot be sustained on the surface - would also take one hefty computer.. 😉 . You've got two options: build some kind of sheltering, or leave the planet. With choice A, everyone still dies a horrible death as the earth is flung out of orbit/engulfed by the sun when it transforms into a red giant. That is why I see space exploration as more than just a curiosity.

toyoyo said:
Has anyone considered that maybe the Mayans never got the chance to invent a "leap year" adjustment? Just because a calendar ends does not mean so does the world. Did the world also begin with the invention of said calendar?

Everybody has their self appointed end of the world date. The jehovas witnesses up the street from me set it a 9/9/09. It seems everytime some numerical alliteration occurs on a date, the apocalypse is bound to occur. But a calendar date is just an abitrary point on the earth's orbit. Just like how 0 degrees longitude was put where it is by the british.
Click to expand...

That's a point I failed to bring up because I thought it was self evident. The Mayans were brought to near extinction by the spanish and their knowledge was largely forgotten until recently. The 2012 MISINTERPRETATION is akin to dialing up your computer's clock to the year 9999, noticing it resets after, and proclaiming "OH MY GOD, END OF THE WORLD!"
 
toyoyo said:
Just because a calendar ends does not mean so does the world. Did the world also begin with the invention of said calendar?

Everybody has their self appointed end of the world date. The jehovas witnesses up the street from me set it a 9/9/09. .
Click to expand...

THANK YOU! The Mayans were brilliant astronomers (how exactly did they pinpoint the center of the Milky Way anyway??) That's the epoch-marker for their calendar. It means the Sun eclipses the center of the Galaxy, a wondrously eternal "rollover" point for the great odometer, much better than the arbitrary "10 fingers times 10 fingers times 10 fingers times 1 Orbit" (ie One Millenium)

The number 10, or 100 or 1000, has no meaning unless your species has ten fingers and uses them to count (So Space-Squids would use base ten as well)

As for the Watchtower/Russelites (J's Witnesses) I think they first predicted The End for 1977.... ALWAYS a mistake because Jesus said He comes as "a thief in the night", "no man knows the hour" of His return, etc
 
PurpleStyle said:
Very interesting concept. I like that.

That is why I see space exploration as more than just a curiosity.



That's a point I failed to bring up because I thought it was self evident. The Mayans were brought to near extinction by the spanish and their knowledge was largely forgotten until recently. The 2012 MISINTERPRETATION is akin to dialing up your computer's clock to the year 9999, noticing it resets after, and proclaiming "OH MY GOD, END OF THE WORLD!"
Click to expand...

I think the Mayan calendar was'nt supposed to be prophetic- it's a brilliant work of some astronomical genius(es)- it was probably co-opted later by Priests for political reasons, all sorts of prophecies and mumbo-jumbo assigned to it.

Did they predict the Conquistadores????
 
There's actually quite a few ways to "pinpoint" the center of the galaxy. I believe they just went by assumption (I'm going by assumption, too) and used the biggest patch of bright gas in the sky. They didn't have to contend with light pollution like we do today. If you were to sit out in Death Valley during the evening, you could clearly see the band of the milky way. This is most likely what they saw every night.

Now, if you know anything about black holes, it actually makes sense that they will inhabit the brightest regions of space. When black holes consume large clouds of gas, the gas gets very hot, and very bright.


Yes, the astronomical system they used was simply a way to keep time. Time was especially important in a civilization without modern day technology because they need to know when to plant and harvest crops. But since they weren't complete buffoons that thought knowledge was bad, it's a reasonable assumption to conclude that they spent a great deal of their time observing and recording the position of stars in the sky. It's reasonable to conclude that they were capable of, and DID do this, because of the long-count calendar they left behind, and the fact that we did the same thing. Only thousands of years later.

These were not simple hunter-gatherer cavemen. This was a civilization that would be of comparable intelligence to our own. But if you want the history of the Maya culture, you'd be best served seeking that knowledge not from me. I'm not a big history buff. 😉
 
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You know, if this happens every 25,000 years or so, I think we'll be alright. After all, mankind was around back then right (as Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon)?
 
What will happen in 2012???

I turn 49. No big deal....LOL
 
Heh, don't try so hard to avoid my posts that are packed full of factual information.

1. There is no astronomical 25,000 year cycle.
2. Cro-Magnon and Neanderthals were not homo sapiens. They're part of the homo genus, commonly thought that they share a common ancestor with us (physical evidence points towards that; see EVOLUTION). They just happened to have died out.
 
I'll bet life's a lot easier when you have the correct answer to absolutely everything.
 
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